Re: DTaP vaccine information request

[Guest guest]

I would NOT.

I encourage you to do some research first. The book, Shot in the

Dark - Barbara Loe Fisher.

www.nvic.com

www.thinktwice.com

I am looking at life long learning disabilities with my now 4.5 yr

old. It's just NOT worth it.

Until they clean up the entire pharma / vaccine coruption-colution

nightmare you are playing a major round of Russian Roulette.

We lost, unfortunately.

>

> My apraxic daughter is overdue for her last DTaP

> vaccination. I know there was some discussion on this

> vaccination and Thimerosal but am unable to find

> anything - especially anything recent. Is there a

> good reason I should NOT give my child (who is in full

> time daycare, FWIW) this vaccine?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am not sure if you mean DPT. The DPT shots are given in boosters. You

may not need a booster and can test for that need or its absence by

first requesting a blood test to test for that antibody. If you are in

fact talking about DPT, yes it still has thimerosol in it. Others do too

even when they say they don'r due to the FDA not requiring it to be

listed if it accounts for less than 2% of the ingredients. In the case

of DPT I think it has more than 2% because they tell you it is in there.

Kris wrote a post stating that you can, at your own expense, request

fresh vaccines not requiring preservatives like thinerosol so that

remains another option. Also, , not in NJ, sent a post advising of

other stuff, not thimerosol, that is in the vaccines themselves that

has its own set of risks. In the end, you have to make your own

decision but these are some options and some other things to review.

Good luck!

Liz

Welch wrote:

>My apraxic daughter is overdue for her last DTaP

>vaccination. I know there was some discussion on this

>vaccination and Thimerosal but am unable to find

>anything - especially anything recent. Is there a

>good reason I should NOT give my child (who is in full

>time daycare, FWIW) this vaccine?

>

>Thanks,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Consider having titers (sp?) done instead. She probably has plenty of

immmunity. Next to MMR, DTaP is tne next most likely vaccine induced

cause of learning disabilited IMO

>

> My apraxic daughter is overdue for her last DTaP

> vaccination. I know there was some discussion on this

> vaccination and Thimerosal but am unable to find

> anything - especially anything recent. Is there a

> good reason I should NOT give my child (who is in full

> time daycare, FWIW) this vaccine?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Some DTaP vaccines do still contain thimerosol. Why not have your

daughter's titers tested and see if she is already immune? In many

states, you can also get a philosophical vaccination waiver.

>

> My apraxic daughter is overdue for her last DTaP

> vaccination. I know there was some discussion on this

> vaccination and Thimerosal but am unable to find

> anything - especially anything recent. Is there a

> good reason I should NOT give my child (who is in full

> time daycare, FWIW) this vaccine?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow - this list really gets me thinking. I have two children my son is 5 and

the reason I joined this list, apraxic/dyspraxic/ low tone/ motor planning

diagnosed at age 3 and doing very well but still has a ways to go - but will be

going into a mainstream kindergarten class.

My daughter age 7 has been getting speech therapy since age 3 therapist feels

mildly apraxic. Her only problems are articulation/pronunciation. Her

expressive and receptive language are both 99% percentile.

So we have two children who are apraxic but to VERY different degrees. And one

major difference is our daughter had a reaction after the first DTP shot, so

after that she only got DT shots. Our son got the DTP shots. Could this have

" saved " our daughter from having more learning disabilities?

I know we'll never know, but it makes you think.

Ellen

[ ] Re: DTaP vaccine information request

Consider having titers (sp?) done instead. She probably has plenty of

immmunity. Next to MMR, DTaP is tne next most likely vaccine induced

cause of learning disabilited IMO

>

> My apraxic daughter is overdue for her last DTaP

> vaccination. I know there was some discussion on this

> vaccination and Thimerosal but am unable to find

> anything - especially anything recent. Is there a

> good reason I should NOT give my child (who is in full

> time daycare, FWIW) this vaccine?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi there

The FDA has a listing on their websites of the actual thimerosal

content of the " thimerosal free " vaccines. For DTAP, Daptacel is

what many pediatrician offices carry. It was formulated after the

instructions to remove thimerosal from the vaccine supply and it is

one of the vaccines that is actually FREE of thimerosal. No traces.

No nothing. Other DTaP brands.... Infanrix is also free of

thimerosal but wasn't when first approved and Tripedia has trace

amounts. There are many public health sites that list Tripedia as

being thimerosal free but the FDA lists it as having trace amounts of

the preservative.

DTaP has never been one of the big controversial vaccines and many

DAN doctors even recommend giving it to their families that want to

partially vaccinate. Some even have it available in their offices.

If I have a second child I do intend to vaccinate but to use a softer

vaccine schedule because some things do give me pause or concern.

But I wouldn't think twice about DTaP. It really hasn't been linked

to much of anything even in the most staunch of anti-vaccine

communities.

If your child has had 4 DTAP's and is just needing #5, you can hold

off on that up until age 6 when she enters school. The accepted

range for #5 is 4 to 6 years of age. Also.... if shot #4 was given

after the child's 4th birthday (usually it is given around 15 to 18

months) then shot #5 is not given. That is per the American Academy

of Pediatrics vaccine schedule. So I don't know how delayed your

child's DTaP schedule is but that guideline may play a role.

In case someone wants to review it, here's the FDA link

http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#t1

Hope that helps

Kris

P.S. I'm rather dim with internet abbreviations.... what does FWIW

mean?

The Knitting Wannabe http://knittingwannabe.typepad.com

Sonny & Shear: The I’ve Got Ewe, Babe Yarn Shop

http://www.sonnyandshear.com

On Jul 9, 2007, at 8:36 AM, Welch wrote:

> My apraxic daughter is overdue for her last DTaP

> vaccination. I know there was some discussion on this

> vaccination and Thimerosal but am unable to find

> anything - especially anything recent. Is there a

> good reason I should NOT give my child (who is in full

> time daycare, FWIW) this vaccine?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Liz wrote:

> I am not sure if you mean DPT. The DPT shots are given in boosters. You

> may not need a booster and can test for that need or its absence by

> first requesting a blood test to test for that antibody. If you are in

> fact talking about DPT, yes it still has thimerosol in it.

Dtap is the acellular version of Pertussis that is supposed to be

" safer " - the Td (diptheria-tetanus without the pertussis part).

In any form, the Td, Dtp, Dtap are implicated in quite a bit of

post-vaccine medical issues...even the " thimerosal-free " ones which

really DO contain thimerosal left over from the production process - it

is just no longer officially a " preservative " and does not have to be

listed as such. Even the TRACE amounts of thimerosal are hundreds of

time higher than the minimum allowed by the EPA...

I would do the titres and if there is immunity - skip the booster. If

there is NO immunity, research some more about why no immunity was

formed by the last vaccines. Revaccininating a person who does not

create titres can be a bit --- well...??? questionable.

BUT having said all that - the choice to vaccinate or not is an

individual families decision to make....my only advice is to make an

well-informed decision by reading all the information out there that

discuss both sides of the discussion.

(my kids are no longer vaccinated as they cannot expel the toxins and

both have neurological damage as a result)

[Guest guest]

I wonder too if your son was also more affected because I am pretty sure

a lot of my reading says that the language based stuff hits the boys

harder. Regardless, I wish only the best to you and your family and I

hope you are getting the same message that I am getting from this

board...we can beat this!

Ellen Haber wrote:

>Wow - this list really gets me thinking. I have two children my son is 5 and

the reason I joined this list, apraxic/dyspraxic/ low tone/ motor planning

diagnosed at age 3 and doing very well but still has a ways to go - but will be

going into a mainstream kindergarten class.

>

>My daughter age 7 has been getting speech therapy since age 3 therapist feels

mildly apraxic. Her only problems are articulation/pronunciation. Her

expressive and receptive language are both 99% percentile.

>

>So we have two children who are apraxic but to VERY different degrees. And one

major difference is our daughter had a reaction after the first DTP shot, so

after that she only got DT shots. Our son got the DTP shots. Could this have

" saved " our daughter from having more learning disabilities?

>

>I know we'll never know, but it makes you think.

>

>Ellen

> [ ] Re: DTaP vaccine information request

>

>

> Consider having titers (sp?) done instead. She probably has plenty of

> immmunity. Next to MMR, DTaP is tne next most likely vaccine induced

> cause of learning disabilited IMO

>

>

> >

> > My apraxic daughter is overdue for her last DTaP

> > vaccination. I know there was some discussion on this

> > vaccination and Thimerosal but am unable to find

> > anything - especially anything recent. Is there a

> > good reason I should NOT give my child (who is in full

> > time daycare, FWIW) this vaccine?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here's another thing to consider.... it may not be the DTP but the

DT. DT vaccines have thimerasol. Your son may have gotten little to

no thimerasol in his vaccines but your daughter may have gotten a lot

due to the use of the DT. At this point there is no DT that is

thimerasol free and one of them has a healthy dose of the stuff.

Kris

The Knitting Wannabe http://knittingwannabe.typepad.com

Sonny & Shear: The I’ve Got Ewe, Babe Yarn Shop

http://www.sonnyandshear.com

On Jul 9, 2007, at 5:35 PM, Ellen Haber wrote:

> Wow - this list really gets me thinking. I have two children my son

> is 5 and the reason I joined this list, apraxic/dyspraxic/ low

> tone/ motor planning diagnosed at age 3 and doing very well but

> still has a ways to go - but will be going into a mainstream

> kindergarten class.

>

> My daughter age 7 has been getting speech therapy since age 3

> therapist feels mildly apraxic. Her only problems are articulation/

> pronunciation. Her expressive and receptive language are both 99%

> percentile.

>

> So we have two children who are apraxic but to VERY different

> degrees. And one major difference is our daughter had a reaction

> after the first DTP shot, so after that she only got DT shots. Our

> son got the DTP shots. Could this have " saved " our daughter from

> having more learning disabilities?

>

> I know we'll never know, but it makes you think.

>

> Ellen

> ----- Original Message -----

>

[Guest guest]

Tripedia is the only one that " officially " has thimerasol left over

from the production process. Because of this the FDA now lists

Tripedia as having trace amounts. While the FDA lists Infanrix as

being thimerasol free I think that should be taken with a grain of

salt since they had the preservative in their initial formula.

Daptacel however has always been thimerasol free and they never had

thimerasol on their production line. So, Daptacel actually is

thimerasol free and had no opportunity to be contaminated.

Regarding the Titers.... I think it is a great idea to see if your

child is immune but unfortunately in many states that titer isn't

going to do you an ounce of good. The shot records required in many

states give no option for having titers instead and the instructions

on giving a medical exemption give no leeway for a health care

provider to give you a medical exemption simply because your child

shows immunity. The medical exemption states that it can only be

given if the child has had a vaccine too recently to vaccinate again,

is allergic or immunocompromised (i.e. a cancer patient). My point

is, getting titers is an okay idea but we shouldn't be giving parents

the impression that they can use titers to get a state approved shot

record and put their kids in school. Now, if you're not needing day

care, school placement, etc then the titers could be helpful when you

are making your decision about further vaccination.

Another thing to consider about titers.... your insurance company

WILL NOT pay for these in most cases unless they are not paying

attention when the bill comes through. So, if you want titers for

your child you should be prepared to pay for that out of pocket

because your physician will not be able to demonstrate why that blood

test is " medically necessary " and will not have a diagnosis code that

he/she can use to warrant the lab test. This would even be true if

your insurance has free lab services because the " free " services are

only those that are medically necessary in the eyes of the insurance

company. And if you have an HMO and see your physician at a " doc in

the box " type outfit don't be surprised if he refuses to order

titers. Why? When the charge is denied the bill might not go to you

but is taken out of his budget. On other HMO plans the doctor would

be possibly be penalized for ordering that test so they may be a bit

more resistant.

Just to give you an idea of costs (these are Florida prices.... I

lived there at the time this happened)....

When I was pregnant my OB drew titers to make sure I was immune to

each of the TORCH diseases. In addition she drew titers for MMR (the

R of which is duplicated in the TORCH). Anyway, she needed to know if

I was immune to these things because if I were to contract one of

these it would be harmful to the baby. This is standard practice for

OB's and it is considered negligent if they do not do this. My

insurance company disagreed and we had to pay the bill for these 2

tests. The cost? $658.92. Now that's Florida prices in 2003...not

sure if the price would be the same today or somewhere else in the

country.

When you pull titers (and use a standard lab) on someone you can't

just say I want this or I want that, they are blended into a whole

bunch of other tests and they're coded that way. So often you end up

getting a more expensive test that contains the titer you are looking

for. Having to do this for each of the vaccines could get very

pricey and parents need to save up if they want to go down this

path. You don't want to be unprepared if your insurance company

denies the charge.

Kris

The Knitting Wannabe http://knittingwannabe.typepad.com

Sonny & Shear: The I’ve Got Ewe, Babe Yarn Shop

http://www.sonnyandshear.com

On Jul 10, 2007, at 3:07 AM, momresearch wrote:

>

> Dtap is the acellular version of Pertussis that is supposed to be

> " safer " - the Td (diptheria-tetanus without the pertussis part).

> In any form, the Td, Dtp, Dtap are implicated in quite a bit of

> post-vaccine medical issues...even the " thimerosal-free " ones which

> really DO contain thimerosal left over from the production process

> - it

> is just no longer officially a " preservative " and does not have to be

> listed as such. Even the TRACE amounts of thimerosal are hundreds of

> time higher than the minimum allowed by the EPA...

>

> I would do the titres and if there is immunity - skip the booster. If

> there is NO immunity, research some more about why no immunity was

> formed by the last vaccines. Revaccininating a person who does not

> create titres can be a bit --- well...??? questionable.

>

> BUT having said all that - the choice to vaccinate or not is an

> individual families decision to make....my only advice is to make an

> well-informed decision by reading all the information out there that

> discuss both sides of the discussion.

>

> (my kids are no longer vaccinated as they cannot expel the toxins and

> both have neurological damage as a result)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

ACK... I messed up. I sent my previous message about your daughter

being more affected because of her getting the DT.... read your

message wrong. I thought when I read your message that your

situation was unusual since boys often are more affected than girls

so I thought maybe it was the thimerasol. Sorry about that. I

wasn't caffeinated enough when I responded to your message.

Kris

The Knitting Wannabe http://knittingwannabe.typepad.com

Sonny & Shear: The I’ve Got Ewe, Babe Yarn Shop

http://www.sonnyandshear.com

On Jul 10, 2007, at 6:39 AM, Liz wrote:

> I wonder too if your son was also more affected because I am pretty

> sure

> a lot of my reading says that the language based stuff hits the boys

> harder. Regardless, I wish only the best to you and your family and I

> hope you are getting the same message that I am getting from this

> board...we can beat this!

>

> Ellen Haber wrote:

>

> >Wow - this list really gets me thinking. I have two children my

> son is 5 and the reason I joined this list, apraxic/dyspraxic/ low

> tone/ motor planning diagnosed at age 3 and doing very well but

> still has a ways to go - but will be going into a mainstream

> kindergarten class.

> >

> >My daughter age 7 has been getting speech therapy since age 3

> therapist feels mildly apraxic. Her only problems are articulation/

> pronunciation. Her expressive and receptive language are both 99%

> percentile.

> >

> >So we have two children who are apraxic but to VERY different

> degrees. And one major difference is our daughter had a reaction

> after the first DTP shot, so after that she only got DT shots. Our

> son got the DTP shots. Could this have " saved " our daughter from

> having more learning disabilities?

> >

> >I know we'll never know, but it makes you think.

> >

> >Ellen

> > [ ] Re: DTaP vaccine information request

> >

> >

> > Consider having titers (sp?) done instead. She probably has

> plenty of

> > immmunity. Next to MMR, DTaP is tne next most likely vaccine induced

> > cause of learning disabilited IMO

> >

> >

> > >

> > > My apraxic daughter is overdue for her last DTaP

> > > vaccination. I know there was some discussion on this

> > > vaccination and Thimerosal but am unable to find

> > > anything - especially anything recent. Is there a

> > > good reason I should NOT give my child (who is in full

> > > time daycare, FWIW) this vaccine?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >