And the hits just keep on coming

[Guest guest]

Hi Kris, though I am no expert, my child had frank, diagnosable OCD at age

four, so I know that's possible.

That your nephew's teacher apparently has concerns is a red flag of some

sort.

I believe " normal " 3s and 4s may line things up. What may be different is

distress or anxiety if the line is messed up or the child is prevented

somehow from making the line. It's the difference between want to, and

" have to " , that separates OCD/anxiety from

What you describe could be OCD or could also fit with some behaviors seen in

kids on the autism spectrum (need for sameness, upset with transitions,

lining things up, low social/communication skills, inflexibility).

If there is anything " up " with your nephew, early diagnosis and intervention

is the key to the best outcome. So though this may seem like a dark day, it

could be viewed as a blessing in disguise. If he has some issues, then he

does, and knowing earlier rather than later can only benefit him.

Re your sister's remark, yes pediatric OCD is rare but not nearly so rare as

was thought. I've read figures of 1 or 2 in 100, plus there is the

familial/genetic aspect as well. What is still rather rare is having it

picked up on, diagnosed, and treated young. At least half of adult OCDers

say their symptoms started as children. Some studies have shown higher

rates of brain disorders of all types in multiples, perhaps due to the fact

that more frequently there are pregnancy or delivery complications, or

prematurity.

Good luck,

Kathy R. in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

From: " Kris " <akdelgado@...>

> Hi,

> My 6 yr old son was diagnosed with OCD in July. We've been making

> some progress, but you know how it goes...

>

> My sister just called me crying. Her son's preschool called to have

> her pick him up. He'll be 4 in two weeks. Apparently, he jumped off

> of the swing for a moment with the intention of getting back on, but

> another child jumped on in the meantime. My nephew was inconsolable

> even after 30 minutes. When my sister arrived at the school, she

> calmed her son down somewhat. The teacher proceeded to show my

> nephew's school work to my sister as compared to the other kids. He's

> is very methodical and complete, in that every line that can be

> traced was traced, every spot to color was completely filled in, etc.

> When the class transitions from one activity to another, they clean

> up first. My nephew REFUSES to leave the area until EVERY single item

> has been put away, despite assurances that the teacher will get the

> rest. For about a year, we've noticed that my nephew " enjoys " lining

> things up. We have famous pictures of him sitting on the floor at

> Easter with two lines of jelly beans on either side of him. At

> Halloween, when the other kids (he's a triplet) were eating their

> candy, he was lining his up. I even noticed that he visually went

> back over the line and adjusted several pieces of candy so that they

> were equidistant. In a restaurant one time, he was lining up the

> jello cubes. I asked him what he was making...a train?...a bridge? He

> looked at me like he was confused about my question, as if " making

> something " wasn't at all the goal.

>

> My brother in law has always seemed to believe that MY son's

> idiosycracies were the result of poor parenting (not enough

> discipline) or a character flaw (bad genes). I often wondered if, out

> of defensiveness, my sister leaned toward that perception too. Now,

> she's really worried that her son has OCD too.

>

> She cried to me, " How can that be?! Pediatric OCD is RARE. How can

> two kids from the same family (cousins) have it?! " .

>

> Yet, I don't know if my nephew's need for symmetry takes up more than

> an hour each day. He's not a chatty kid. It's hard to know what he's

> thinking. My son's behavior shifted from a presumption

> of " personality " to concern about " symtoms " to a call to the

> pediatrician during the year prior to turning 6. It's hard to know if

> my nephew's way of playing is still in the normal range for a 4 yr

> old, or if it is the begining of an OCD diagnosis.

>

> I guess that I don't really have a question...Just thought I'd vent.

> Do " normal " 3 and 4 yr old's line everything up? Are we jumping to

> conclusions?

>

> Kris

[Guest guest]

Kris,

My son always lined things up as a child and liked to

make patterns. Sometimes this is an indication of a

child being on the autism spectrum (mildly). This

sometimes can lead to OCD although my son's

psychologist has told me the OCD with autism is

slightly different (although treatment would be

similar).

If I would have realized all this at 4, I would have

focused more on socialization and any obvious OCD

symptoms (germ issues and anything that appears to be

a growing problem).

On the positive side, these kids are often incredible

builders, great at boardgames, chess and even music.

All great things to encourage!

>

> I guess that I don't really have a question...Just

> thought I'd vent.

> Do " normal " 3 and 4 yr old's line everything up? Are

> we jumping to

> conclusions?

>

> Kris

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I have lots to say in response, but I'm running out of time -

so, I'll limit myself to saying that having cousins with ocd is

actually much more likely than not - precious little is known about

ocd's origins though the current popular opinion is that it's a

combination of a genetic predisposition plus some trigger (a virus?) -

but, for all they know it's from standing to the left of a giraffe

when it brushes bluebottle flies off it's ear with it's tail under a

full moon and blinks three times.

It is well known that it runs in families and I'm sure somewhere

there are percentages published for the likelihood of different

degrees of relatives having it -

Unless there is no blood tie between the cousins, you should take a

good hard look up your family tree and see if you can spot " the

hoarders " , " the checkers " , the " worriers " , " the cleaners " , " the

obsessors " , " the hypochondriacs " , " the food rules " , or " the

controllers " .

>

> Hi,

> My 6 yr old son was diagnosed with OCD in July. We've been making

> some progress, but you know how it goes...

>

> My sister just called me crying. Her son's preschool called to have

> her pick him up. He'll be 4 in two weeks. Apparently, he jumped off

> of the swing for a moment with the intention of getting back on,

but

> another child jumped on in the meantime. My nephew was inconsolable

> even after 30 minutes. When my sister arrived at the school, she

> calmed her son down somewhat. The teacher proceeded to show my

> nephew's school work to my sister as compared to the other kids.

He's

> is very methodical and complete, in that every line that can be

> traced was traced, every spot to color was completely filled in,

etc.

> When the class transitions from one activity to another, they clean

> up first. My nephew REFUSES to leave the area until EVERY single

item

> has been put away, despite assurances that the teacher will get the

> rest. For about a year, we've noticed that my nephew " enjoys "

lining

> things up. We have famous pictures of him sitting on the floor at

> Easter with two lines of jelly beans on either side of him. At

> Halloween, when the other kids (he's a triplet) were eating their

> candy, he was lining his up. I even noticed that he visually went

> back over the line and adjusted several pieces of candy so that

they

> were equidistant. In a restaurant one time, he was lining up the

> jello cubes. I asked him what he was making...a train?...a bridge?

He

> looked at me like he was confused about my question, as if " making

> something " wasn't at all the goal.

>

> My brother in law has always seemed to believe that MY son's

> idiosycracies were the result of poor parenting (not enough

> discipline) or a character flaw (bad genes). I often wondered if,

out

> of defensiveness, my sister leaned toward that perception too. Now,

> she's really worried that her son has OCD too.

>

> She cried to me, " How can that be?! Pediatric OCD is RARE. How can

> two kids from the same family (cousins) have it?! " .

>

> Yet, I don't know if my nephew's need for symmetry takes up more

than

> an hour each day. He's not a chatty kid. It's hard to know what

he's

> thinking. My son's behavior shifted from a presumption

> of " personality " to concern about " symtoms " to a call to the

> pediatrician during the year prior to turning 6. It's hard to know

if

> my nephew's way of playing is still in the normal range for a 4 yr

> old, or if it is the begining of an OCD diagnosis.

>

> I guess that I don't really have a question...Just thought I'd

vent.

> Do " normal " 3 and 4 yr old's line everything up? Are we jumping to

> conclusions?

>

> Kris

>

[Guest guest]

In my family, I have OCD, both of my kids have OCD, my dad has OCD, my

grandfather had OCD, and my aunt has OCD. I have long suspected that my nephew

has

OCD and now that they are older, I think his younger twin brothers act a lot

like my youngest! We also have a nice mixture of " co-morbid " disorders like

tics and sensory issues in many family members. There are so many, in fact,

that we don't call them " co-morbid " disorders. We refer to them as " cousin "

disorders because it's likely that your cousin has it too! I think your sister

should take her son to a good psychiatrist for diagnosis. If he does have it,

early treatment is best. Needless to say, our family reunions are very

interesting and colorful! Kelley in NV

[Guest guest]

LOL!!!!! :-D

I like your attitude.

Needless to say, our

> family reunions are very

> interesting and colorful! Kelley in NV

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I hear ya...in fact, we probably don't have to look that far up the

tree...maybe just to the branch above! I think that we all thought

that our approach to things was...well...productive. In some ways, it

gives me hope that a person really can adjust to this thinking and

make the most of it. I just " worry " about extreme cases, often

portrayed in TV and the movies.

Only after my son's diagnosis, did I ask other moms if they feel a

quiet, unspoken wave of panic each night, thinking that an intruder

could come in and abduct their child. I've been thinking about this

ever since that little girl (le) from CA was taken from her

bedroom and killed. But, see, I don't think that I " obsess " . I simply

set the house alarm each night and when I wake up a couple of times

each night, I look at the alarm control box in my bedroom to ensure

that the red light is still on. Then, I'm able to go back to sleep.

Other moms, then told me that the idea of their child being taken and

killed never enters their minds. I'm floored by this! I think,

really???...you never think this?!???

My father is a major control freak and my mother is very analytical.

I'm very analytical as well. Many say " too much " . I remember seeing a

movie as a child, called " Old McCrakens Farm " (or something like

that) about the Salem witch hunt. One scene portrayed women being

laid on a board with another board covering them and the entire town

piling bolders on the board until the " witch " was crushed to death.

After that, I refused to open the closet door in our house that

stored the extra leaf for the dining room table. Then, I saw an

episode of the old TV show, " Ironside " where someone was murdered

with shears. My mother had large shears for making draperies and my

father had large leather gloves (it was cold in Chicago), so I

quietly concluded that my parents were killers. I was VERY well

behaved after that discovery! My list goes on and on...

But, don't ALL people get freaked out by inanimate objects that are

used in scary movies? Isn't that why Alfred Hitchcock was so famous?

I recall many people refusing to shower after " Psycho " . What's the

cut off?...Being scared for a few weeks? Is still being scared of the

idea years later, indicative of OCD? I saw a movie that showed

a " body " lying on the ground. Twenty years later, I still can't fall

asleep with my legs angled in the same position that, that body was

lying. Is that odd? My husband says that it is, but I just think that

he's unimaginative!

What is " successful " management of OCD? Is it no longer having

repeatitive, intrusive thoughts? Or is it the ability to push them

out of your mind for a time? Is my goal for my son, that he no longer

has to alter his behavior in responce to these intrusive, thoughts?

Truth be told, I still probably alter my behavior. Doesn't everyone?

Boy, I'm looking at my jerk of a brother in law, who gets angry if

you fill the ice cube trays " too high " or turn the mini blind slats

in the " wrong " direction, in a whole new light! I'm starting to

obsess - I'm seeing OCD everywhere! Ugh!

Kris

> >

> > Hi,

> > My 6 yr old son was diagnosed with OCD in July. We've been making

> > some progress, but you know how it goes...

> >

> > My sister just called me crying. Her son's preschool called to

have

> > her pick him up. He'll be 4 in two weeks. Apparently, he jumped

off

> > of the swing for a moment with the intention of getting back on,

> but

> > another child jumped on in the meantime. My nephew was

inconsolable

> > even after 30 minutes. When my sister arrived at the school, she

> > calmed her son down somewhat. The teacher proceeded to show my

> > nephew's school work to my sister as compared to the other kids.

> He's

> > is very methodical and complete, in that every line that can be

> > traced was traced, every spot to color was completely filled in,

> etc.

> > When the class transitions from one activity to another, they

clean

> > up first. My nephew REFUSES to leave the area until EVERY single

> item

> > has been put away, despite assurances that the teacher will get

the

> > rest. For about a year, we've noticed that my nephew " enjoys "

> lining

> > things up. We have famous pictures of him sitting on the floor at

> > Easter with two lines of jelly beans on either side of him. At

> > Halloween, when the other kids (he's a triplet) were eating their

> > candy, he was lining his up. I even noticed that he visually went

> > back over the line and adjusted several pieces of candy so that

> they

> > were equidistant. In a restaurant one time, he was lining up the

> > jello cubes. I asked him what he was making...a train?...a

bridge?

> He

> > looked at me like he was confused about my question, as

if " making

> > something " wasn't at all the goal.

> >

> > My brother in law has always seemed to believe that MY son's

> > idiosycracies were the result of poor parenting (not enough

> > discipline) or a character flaw (bad genes). I often wondered if,

> out

> > of defensiveness, my sister leaned toward that perception too.

Now,

> > she's really worried that her son has OCD too.

> >

> > She cried to me, " How can that be?! Pediatric OCD is RARE. How

can

> > two kids from the same family (cousins) have it?! " .

> >

> > Yet, I don't know if my nephew's need for symmetry takes up more

> than

> > an hour each day. He's not a chatty kid. It's hard to know what

> he's

> > thinking. My son's behavior shifted from a presumption

> > of " personality " to concern about " symtoms " to a call to the

> > pediatrician during the year prior to turning 6. It's hard to

know

> if

> > my nephew's way of playing is still in the normal range for a 4

yr

> > old, or if it is the begining of an OCD diagnosis.

> >

> > I guess that I don't really have a question...Just thought I'd

> vent.

> > Do " normal " 3 and 4 yr old's line everything up? Are we jumping

to

> > conclusions?

> >

> > Kris

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kris --

I don't think that you're going overboard to have the thought that

catastrophes and tragedies do happen -- and probably to everyone at least once

in

their life. On top of that, the newspapers, tv news, and most of the popular tv

shows like Law & Order and CSI can tend to stoke those fears, at least

subliminally. The key is how you respond to those concerns. As a parent, I

find it

hard to relax about how vulnerable our children are, but, after we've taken

reasonable precautions for their safety, things are largely out of our hands.

It

sounds like you're doing the right thing by locking the doors & setting the

alarm.

I'm pretty vigilant, myself -- even had our house alarm set up so that it

could always be on in the walkout basement, even when we were home.

Eventually, after maintaining the system for at least ten years, the batteries

started

to go and the alarm kept beeping and triggering calls from the alarm company.

I finally got so tired of it one day, when the beeping wouldn't quit, that I

shut off the alarm, completely. That was at least two years ago, I'm sure.

There's a difference between being concerned and being obsessed. Now you just

have to convince yourself that once the doors are locked and the alarm's set,

you've done your job. Believe me, if the alarm loses power for some reason,

it'll let you know with annoying beeps!

Jane B.

[Guest guest]

Ok, so, in our case flouride has been a concern. Mom and both kids drank

flouridated baby water (amount of flouride unregulated by FDA) and son,

with dyspraxia and gut issues, drank powdered soy formula to boot which

has flouride and aluminum in it. I realize removing flouride from the

home is key and we are in the process of doing that. As for the risk I

have put him at previously, I am going to, as my aunt always says, " Kiss

it up to God. " I was curious if anyone has read a way to detox from

flouride? I am not sure it is possible since it gets in the bones but I

have to at least inquire as to the possibility.

Major bells ringing as I have often gotten sick from (non organic)

grapes. It turns out they have lots of flouride. Lots of other bells

ringing too...like hip pain, etc. Flouride has been known to cause

cortical vision troubles, gastric symptoms, etc. Things all too familiar

to me and mine.