Re: LDN and Solumedrol

[Guest guest]

The article discusses a form of Niacin, a B vitamin, that can be taken orally. NOTE: not the flush free kind.

mjh"The Basil Book"http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

Posted by: " Luik" we_discover2004@... we_discover2004

Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:27 pm (PST)

How about checking this out as well... Subject: Ongoing nerve-fiber damage, disability preventedDate: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:20:25 EDTThis article is about using vitamins to stop the progression of MS.....hmmm...I think I am going to the doctor about this. I want a shot of this stuff every day. BUT perhaps someone can now read what my friend did... suddenly, it seems to be unable to get ahold of to read.... any ideas why????>

[Guest guest]

Solumedrol(steroids) suppresses the immune system, LDN boosts it, so

it's not recommended although I think Dr. Bihari allows steroids in a

limited way during a major exacerbation.

Artie

[Guest guest]

Thanks Artie for the info. I'll be contacting my neuro to get his slant too!

Take Care and GOD Bless!

Rob Orris

From: "Art Hansen" <rtee54@...>Reply- low dose naltrexone low dose naltrexone Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: LDN and SolumedrolDate: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:30:04 -0000>Solumedrol(steroids) suppresses the immune system, LDN boosts it, so>it's not recommended although I think Dr. Bihari allows steroids in a>limited way during a major exacerbation.>>Artie>>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

The link you sent to childrens hospital isn't working. Is it me?

Thanks for checking!

[low dose naltrexone] Re: LDN and SolumedrolDate: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:30:04 -0000>Solumedrol(steroids) suppresses the immune system, LDN boosts it, so>it's not recommended although I think Dr. Bihari allows steroids in a>limited way during a major exacerbation.>>Artie>>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

monthly solumedrol will wipe out all effects of LDN. LDN upregulates

the immune system, Dr Bihari feels all autoimmune system diseases are

a result of an underactive immune system, low endorphins. Dr. Bihari

is very much against steroid use unless you are under a tremendous

amount of stress or illness causing a severe exacerbation and in these

cases he says okay to steroids only long enough for you to get on your

feet and then come off the steroids.

Steroids downregulate the immune system and used long-term with LDN

will negate the effects of LDN.

...LDN user over 3 years for chronic progressive MS, have had no

disease progression since starting 4.5mg LDN...I take no other MS meds.

[Guest guest]

Where's the logic in this? If steroids do the opposite of LDN, and LDN is what is needed, then why would it be ok to use steroids at ALL? This is one of those things about LDN that just really bugs me. You cant have both, or can you, and if you can, then we're saying that both is ok, but how can both be ok, they do the opposite things. If a dose of steroids 'gets you on your feet', then isnt that saying that suppressing the immune system is ok once in a while? Help, I'm lost!!

[low dose naltrexone] Re: LDN and Solumedrol

monthly solumedrol will wipe out all effects of LDN. LDN upregulates the immune system, Dr Bihari feels all autoimmune system diseases are a result of an underactive immune system, low endorphins. Dr. Bihari is very much against steroid use unless you are under a tremendous amount of stress or illness causing a severe exacerbation and in these cases he says okay to steroids only long enough for you to get on your feet and then come off the steroids.Steroids downregulate the immune system and used long-term with LDN will negate the effects of LDN....LDN user over 3 years for chronic progressive MS, have had no disease progression since starting 4.5mg LDN...I take no other MS meds.

[Guest guest]

This is one of the reasons I feel there should be more involvement from a professional of some kind, either a researcher, doctor, or someone directly involved with LDN and it's progress. I'm sure Bihari could even get someone to 'take dictation' and transfer it here, heck, I'm sure he could even figure out how to 'peck' out a few answers here every once in a while. What better support for LDN than having those directly involved with it post here? Zagon, Bihari, Gluck(s), someone, anyone!!! >> I don't understand it either. Maybe it means that ......well heck. I don't know!> [low dose naltrexone] Re: LDN and Solumedrol> > > monthly solumedrol will wipe out all effects of LDN. LDN upregulates > the immune system, Dr Bihari feels all autoimmune system diseases are > a result of an underactive immune system, low endorphins. Dr. Bihari > is very much against steroid use unless you are under a tremendous > amount of stress or illness causing a severe exacerbation and in these > cases he says okay to steroids only long enough for you to get on your > feet and then come off the steroids.> > Steroids downregulate the immune system and used long-term with LDN > will negate the effects of LDN.> > ...LDN user over 3 years for chronic progressive MS, have had no > disease progression since starting 4.5mg LDN...I take no other MS meds.>

[Guest guest]

>

> This is one of the reasons I feel there should be more involvement

> from a professional of some kind, either a researcher, doctor, or

> someone directly involved with LDN and it's progress. I'm sure Bihari

> could even get someone to 'take dictation' and transfer it here, heck,

> I'm sure he could even figure out how to 'peck' out a few answers here

> every once in a while. What better support for LDN than having those

> directly involved with it post here? Zagon, Bihari, Gluck(s), someone,

> anyone!!!

Once in awhile this would be nice.

[Guest guest]

>

> This is one of the

reasons I feel there

should be more involvement

> from a professional of

some kind, either a

researcher, doctor, or

> someone directly

involved with LDN and it's

progress. I'm sure Bihari

> could even get someone

to 'take dictation' and

transfer it here, heck,

> I'm sure he could even

figure out how to 'peck'

out a few answers here

> every once in a while.

What better support for

LDN than having those

> directly involved with

it post here? Zagon,

Bihari, Gluck(s), someone,

> anyone!!!

=========

I just type from my

recorded conversation with

Bihari. And before anyone

asks...NO, I will not

release this as this was

done out of Dr. Bihari

knowing I have a severe

hearing loss and needed to

record our conversation so

I could amplify it on my

sound mixer. It as

allowed for my own

personal use and that's

all. This was a paid

($500.00) for conversation

on mine and my mom's part

about my mom's breast

cancer and the MANY

general information and in-

depth questions I asked

him about LDN.

I generally type answers

from that 90 minute

conversation with him. I

think Bihari sometimes

gives in to patients too

quicky at times when they

are experencing a flare in

symptoms. When under a

tremendous amount of

stress you can bet

symptoms are going to get

stirred up and many times

severely. Many people

panic and want to run for

steroids when this happens

instead of waiting it out

and seeing if symptoms

will die down after one

gets their stress level

down. This flare in

symptoms also happens

during times of illness,

overdoing, getting too

hot, etc. So, many times

patients panic and Bihari

gives in and allows

steroids for ONLY a VERY

brief period.

If stress level does not

die down and symptoms

flare for extended periods

then Bihari will recommend

steroids to keep the high

stress from causing new

neurologcal damage, but he

does not recommend

prolonged steroid use.

[Guest guest]

Dr Crowly felt that the worse thing you can do is steroids period end of question  because it screws up your endocrine system so bad it takes months to get back on tract.  Personally I would never take steroids unless my life depended on it. Long term use is devastating on your body. now having said that if you were in the middle of a severe exacerbation then you might not have a choice but its not without consequences. its a crapshoot. and the question would be "how  much will I progress  is this exacerbation " vs "How far back will I go" -thats a choice and to me when you guys are in the middle of this it is an emergency. but you also have to think about what you put you there.but as a matter of just regular therapy you can't have bothcyndiOn Sep 24, 2006, at 8:38 PM, Dave Carlin wrote: Where's the logic in this? If steroids do the opposite of LDN, and LDN is what is needed, then why would it be ok to use steroids at ALL? This is one of those things about LDN that just really bugs me. You cant have both, or can you, and if you can, then we're saying that both is ok, but how can both be ok, they do the opposite things. If a dose of steroids 'gets you on your feet', then isnt that saying that suppressing the immune system is ok once in a while? Help, I'm lost!! [low dose naltrexone] Re: LDN and Solumedrol monthly solumedrol will wipe out all effects of LDN. LDN upregulates the immune system, Dr Bihari feels all autoimmune system diseases are a result of an underactive immune system, low endorphins. Dr. Bihari is very much against steroid use unless you are under a tremendous amount of stress or illness causing a severe exacerbation and in these cases he says okay to steroids only long enough for you to get on your feet and then come off the steroids.Steroids downregulate the immune system and used long-term with LDN will negate the effects of LDN....LDN user over 3 years for chronic progressive MS, have had no disease progression since starting 4.5mg LDN...I take no other MS meds.

[Guest guest]

Some feedback from my IV steroid experience during my recent exacerbation...I did the steroid thing out of fear of what might happen to me if I didn't. I'm afraid of the long-term consequences, as well as concerned about the conflict with LDN, and this would be maybe the 6th time I've done this since I was diagnosed with MS. I'd like to say I'll never use IV steroids again but I know if I'm scared enough I may well. As for whether on not they worked? I have no idea, and that's as I expected. However, I'm now having IV antioxidant infusions and some serious oral nutritional supplementation. By week 2 of this I was recovering much more quickly than after any previous exacerbation I can remember. I have a long way to go but it's encouraging.

Gayle

[low dose naltrexone] Re: LDN and Solumedrol

monthly solumedrol will wipe out all effects of LDN. LDN upregulates the immune system, Dr Bihari feels all autoimmune system diseases are a result of an underactive immune system, low endorphins. Dr. Bihari is very much against steroid use unless you are under a tremendous amount of stress or illness causing a severe exacerbation and in these cases he says okay to steroids only long enough for you to get on your feet and then come off the steroids.Steroids downregulate the immune system and used long-term with LDN will negate the effects of LDN....LDN user over 3 years for chronic progressive MS, have had no disease progression since starting 4.5mg LDN...I take no other MS meds. __________ NOD32 1.1773 (20060925) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

i have it on video tape from dr crowly

cyndi

On Sep 24, 2006, at 10:31 PM, Art Hansen wrote:

>

>>

>> This is one of the reasons I feel there should be more involvement

>> from a professional of some kind, either a researcher, doctor, or

>> someone directly involved with LDN and it's progress. I'm sure Bihari

>> could even get someone to 'take dictation' and transfer it here,

>> heck,

>> I'm sure he could even figure out how to 'peck' out a few answers

>> here

>> every once in a while. What better support for LDN than having those

>> directly involved with it post here? Zagon, Bihari, Gluck(s),

>> someone,

>> anyone!!!

>

> Once in awhile this would be nice.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

outtabodyexperience " wrote: " ...there should be more involvement

from a professional of some kind, either a researcher, doctor, or

someone directly involved with LDN and it's progress.... "

Here's why they don't. People on the forum would ask them for

medical advice. They would be bombarded with questions about

dosage, side-effects, symptoms, diet, supplements, etc, etc, etc.

In other words, they would be asked to dispense medical advice to

patients they had never met.

Not ethical, not smart, and probably illegal. The American Medical

Association strongly discourages its members from treating patients

they have never met. Several states have passed laws against it.

That's why it's gotten so hard to get a prescription via phone-

consult.

And a researcher giving medical advice over an internet forum?

Lawsuits, lawsuits, lawsuits.

[Guest guest]

So what are you saying ? It's not in Dr Bihari's best interest to answer questions for free here? How can there be any validity for something if we tell people that it's ok to give in once in a while. Thats like saying someone should go on one of those special candida diets, but it's ok to eat junkfood every once in a while if that makes you feel better. The point is though, if LDN regulates and boosts the immune system, and we believe that THAT is the key to fighting MS, then HOW can steroids keep stress from damaging the neurological system. If Dr. Bihari is giving in and telling his patients that it's ok to take steroids once in a while, then he's contradicting himself. Having MS doesnt decrease one's intelligence, I'm sure people question these contradictions. This is NOT good, it doesnt help LDN's integrity, it creates a reasonable doubt of LDN's ability. IMHO, you just cant say that it's ok to have both ways, that doesnt cut it.

> >> > This is one of the > reasons I feel there > should be more involvement> > from a professional of > some kind, either a > researcher, doctor, or> > someone directly > involved with LDN and it's > progress. I'm sure Bihari> > could even get someone > to 'take dictation' and > transfer it here, heck,> > I'm sure he could even > figure out how to 'peck' > out a few answers here> > every once in a while. > What better support for > LDN than having those> > directly involved with > it post here? Zagon, > Bihari, Gluck(s), someone,> > anyone!!!> =========> > I just type from my > recorded conversation with > Bihari. And before anyone > asks...NO, I will not > release this as this was > done out of Dr. Bihari > knowing I have a severe > hearing loss and needed to > record our conversation so > I could amplify it on my > sound mixer. It as > allowed for my own > personal use and that's > all. This was a paid> ($500.00) for conversation > on mine and my mom's part > about my mom's breast > cancer and the MANY > general information and in-> depth questions I asked > him about LDN.> > I generally type answers > from that 90 minute > conversation with him. I > think Bihari sometimes > gives in to patients too > quicky at times when they > are experencing a flare in > symptoms. When under a > tremendous amount of > stress you can bet > symptoms are going to get > stirred up and many times > severely. Many people > panic and want to run for > steroids when this happens > instead of waiting it out > and seeing if symptoms > will die down after one > gets their stress level > down. This flare in > symptoms also happens > during times of illness, > overdoing, getting too > hot, etc. So, many times > patients panic and Bihari > gives in and allows > steroids for ONLY a VERY > brief period.> > If stress level does not > die down and symptoms > flare for extended periods > then Bihari will recommend > steroids to keep the high > stress from causing new > neurologcal damage, but he > does not recommend > prolonged steroid use.> > >

[Guest guest]

No one said anything about medical advice, where did THAT come from? Now you're going way off track!. "...there should be more involvement > from a professional of some kind, either a researcher, doctor, or > someone directly involved with LDN and it's progress...."> > Here's why they don't. People on the forum would ask them for > medical advice. They would be bombarded with questions about > dosage, side-effects, symptoms, diet, supplements, etc, etc, etc. > > In other words, they would be asked to dispense medical advice to > patients they had never met.> > Not ethical, not smart, and probably illegal. The American Medical > Association strongly discourages its members from treating patients > they have never met. Several states have passed laws against it. > That's why it's gotten so hard to get a prescription via phone-> consult. > > And a researcher giving medical advice over an internet forum? > Lawsuits, lawsuits, lawsuits.>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> So what are you saying ? It's not in Dr Bihari's best

interest

> to answer questions for free here? How can there be any validity

for

> something if we tell people that it's ok to give in once in a

while.

> Thats like saying someone should go on one of those special candida

> diets, but it's ok to eat junkfood every once in a while if that

makes

> you feel better. The point is though, if LDN regulates and boosts

the

> immune system, and we believe that THAT is the key to fighting MS,

then

> HOW can steroids keep stress from damaging the neurological

system. If

> Dr. Bihari is giving in and telling his patients that it's ok to

take

> steroids once in a while, then he's contradicting himself. Having

MS

> doesnt decrease one's intelligence, I'm sure people question these

> contradictions. This is NOT good, it doesnt help LDN's integrity,

it

> creates a reasonable doubt of LDN's ability. IMHO, you just cant

say

> that it's ok to have both ways, that doesnt cut it.

>

==========

It's just like Bihari NEVER telling someone they should come off

steroids or the approved MS meds, LDN has not been FDA approved for

the treatment of MS so he's not going to get himself in a legal suit

over telling someone not to take an approved MS treatment. Steroids

is an approved treatment. The man has to play it smart and cover

his butt. Once and if ever LDN is FDA approved for the treatment of

MS Bihari will be able to be more open with his thoughts. I knew

what questions to ask him, how to word them to get the answers I was

searching for and I got them. I wrote all my questions down before

we made our call.

[Guest guest]

I suppose I can understand HIS position then, he's not really offering any advice, he's covering his butt. So does that mean that he really doesnt agree with using steroids, but he tells people to use them because he's afraid of a legal issue, and if this is the case, why then are you telling people this ? Are you afraid of a legal suit as well?

[low dose naltrexone] Re: LDN and Solumedrol

>> > So what are you saying ? It's not in Dr Bihari's best interest> to answer questions for free here? How can there be any validity for> something if we tell people that it's ok to give in once in a while.> Thats like saying someone should go on one of those special candida> diets, but it's ok to eat junkfood every once in a while if that makes> you feel better. The point is though, if LDN regulates and boosts the> immune system, and we believe that THAT is the key to fighting MS, then> HOW can steroids keep stress from damaging the neurological system. If> Dr. Bihari is giving in and telling his patients that it's ok to take> steroids once in a while, then he's contradicting himself. Having MS> doesnt decrease one's intelligence, I'm sure people question these> contradictions. This is NOT good, it doesnt help LDN's integrity, it> creates a reasonable doubt of LDN's ability. IMHO, you just cant say> that it's ok to have both ways, that doesnt cut it.>==========It's just like Bihari NEVER telling someone they should come off steroids or the approved MS meds, LDN has not been FDA approved for the treatment of MS so he's not going to get himself in a legal suit over telling someone not to take an approved MS treatment. Steroids is an approved treatment. The man has to play it smart and cover his butt. Once and if ever LDN is FDA approved for the treatment of MS Bihari will be able to be more open with his thoughts. I knew what questions to ask him, how to word them to get the answers I was searching for and I got them. I wrote all my questions down before we made our call.

[Guest guest]

" ...there should be more involvement

> from a professional of some kind, either a researcher, doctor, or

> someone directly involved with LDN and it's progress.... "

>

> Here's why they don't. People on the forum would ask them for

> medical advice. They would be bombarded with questions about

> dosage, side-effects, symptoms, diet, supplements, etc, etc, etc.

>

> In other words, they would be asked to dispense medical advice to

> patients they had never met.

>

> Not ethical, not smart, and probably illegal. The American Medical

> Association strongly discourages its members from treating patients

> they have never met. Several states have passed laws against it.

> That's why it's gotten so hard to get a prescription via phone-

> consult.

>

Bentley-You are correct.

> And a researcher giving medical advice over an internet forum?

> Lawsuits, lawsuits, lawsuits.

>

[Guest guest]

its only medical advice when you pay for it. there has to to be a doctor patient relationship.cyndiOn Sep 25, 2006, at 12:05 PM, outtabodyexperience wrote: No one said anything about medical advice, where did THAT come from? Now you're going way off track!. "...there should be more involvement > from a professional of some kind, either a researcher, doctor, or > someone directly involved with LDN and it's progress...."> > Here's why they don't. People on the forum would ask them for > medical advice. They would be bombarded with questions about > dosage, side-effects, symptoms, diet, supplements, etc, etc, etc. > > In other words, they would be asked to dispense medical advice to > patients they had never met.> > Not ethical, not smart, and probably illegal. The American Medical > Association strongly discourages its members from treating patients > they have never met. Several states have passed laws against it. > That's why it's gotten so hard to get a prescription via phone-> consult. > > And a researcher giving medical advice over an internet forum? > Lawsuits, lawsuits, lawsuits.>