Re: Salicylic acid, willow bark, BHAs, etc

[Guest guest]

-----

" ruizdelvizo@...>

> Salicylic acid does irritate my skin. I guess I'm an unusual

Hi there

I concur 100%. My current upset skin situation can all be traced to my use

of a SAGE product contained salicylic acid. Or that is my belief. I was told

that the 2% concentration in the product did not the proper Ph for it to

work as an exfoliant, but that it was an anti-inflammatory. I had quite the

opposite reaction. I will never, never, never use salicylic acid on my face

again.

[Guest guest]

Hi Marjorie,

Salicylic acid does irritate my skin. I guess I'm an unusual

rosacean. I've used it in a few other products and had irritation the

second day after using them. As well, Dr. Sy used a .25%

concentration of salicylic acid in one of her test cleanser formulas

for seb derm. The previous formula worked great for my skin. Then,

she added the small amount of sal. acid to the formula with no other

changes and within two days my skin looked pink and felt burned. I

would guess that it was the salicylic acid that caused the

irritation. I know she abandoned using sal. acid in future test

formulations. I don't know how many other testers had this reaction

or if I was the only one.

Take care,

Matija

> Anything that chronically irritates the skin will tend to thin it,

> perhaps because chronic irritation interferes with normal collagen

> production. I've not heard that salicylic acid has a unique

property

> that is harmful to rosaceans; from everything I've read, quite the

> contrary (given the proper concentration and pH used).

>

> Hope that helps.

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

Hi Marjorie,

Salicylic acid does irritate my skin. I guess I'm an unusual

rosacean. I've used it in a few other products and had irritation the

second day after using them. As well, Dr. Sy used a .25%

concentration of salicylic acid in one of her test cleanser formulas

for seb derm. The previous formula worked great for my skin. Then,

she added the small amount of sal. acid to the formula with no other

changes and within two days my skin looked pink and felt burned. I

would guess that it was the salicylic acid that caused the

irritation. I know she abandoned using sal. acid in future test

formulations. I don't know how many other testers had this reaction

or if I was the only one.

Take care,

Matija

> Anything that chronically irritates the skin will tend to thin it,

> perhaps because chronic irritation interferes with normal collagen

> production. I've not heard that salicylic acid has a unique

property

> that is harmful to rosaceans; from everything I've read, quite the

> contrary (given the proper concentration and pH used).

>

> Hope that helps.

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

Hi Marjorie,

Salicylic acid does irritate my skin. I guess I'm an unusual

rosacean. I've used it in a few other products and had irritation the

second day after using them. As well, Dr. Sy used a .25%

concentration of salicylic acid in one of her test cleanser formulas

for seb derm. The previous formula worked great for my skin. Then,

she added the small amount of sal. acid to the formula with no other

changes and within two days my skin looked pink and felt burned. I

would guess that it was the salicylic acid that caused the

irritation. I know she abandoned using sal. acid in future test

formulations. I don't know how many other testers had this reaction

or if I was the only one.

Take care,

Matija

> Anything that chronically irritates the skin will tend to thin it,

> perhaps because chronic irritation interferes with normal collagen

> production. I've not heard that salicylic acid has a unique

property

> that is harmful to rosaceans; from everything I've read, quite the

> contrary (given the proper concentration and pH used).

>

> Hope that helps.

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

Matija, I know what you mean about reacting to unexpected

ingredients. I'm toying with the idea that I may be sensitive

to...get this...zinc oxide! Haven't we been told that's the most

gentle, most innocuous of ingredients? But every preparation I've

tried, however benign the inactive ingredients, I react with itching

and a three day breakout.

Re: the sunscreen stuff. That was a good article, thanks. I'd heard

about the estrogen effect, but I don't know what to make of it. I'm

more concerned about the potential irritation and limited protection,

but I don't even know if that's a big deal. I'm just going to stick

with titanium dioxide (unless I begin a weird reaction to that also!

)

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

Yes, I have heard of some people reacting to zinc oxide with

breakouts. I read beauty and skincare discussion boards pretty

regularly and non-rosaceans have the same problems with zinc. Some

people can't use either that or titanium dioxide because of breakout

problems. Unfortunately, they have to rely on chemical sunscreens

for protection.

I know some people on this list who have bad reactions to glycerin,

another ingredient that seems safe for a lot of people. I can use it,

but not all rosaceans can.

Which sunblock do you use that's exclusively titanium dioxide? I

haven't looked on the market because zinc doesn't bother me, but I'm

just curious.

Take care,

Matija

>

> Matija, I know what you mean about reacting to unexpected

> ingredients. I'm toying with the idea that I may be sensitive

> to...get this...zinc oxide! Haven't we been told that's the most

> gentle, most innocuous of ingredients? But every preparation I've

> tried, however benign the inactive ingredients, I react with

itching

> and a three day breakout.

>

> Re: the sunscreen stuff. That was a good article, thanks. I'd heard

> about the estrogen effect, but I don't know what to make of it. I'm

> more concerned about the potential irritation and limited

protection,

> but I don't even know if that's a big deal. I'm just going to stick

> with titanium dioxide (unless I begin a weird reaction to that

also!

> )

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

Yes, I have heard of some people reacting to zinc oxide with

breakouts. I read beauty and skincare discussion boards pretty

regularly and non-rosaceans have the same problems with zinc. Some

people can't use either that or titanium dioxide because of breakout

problems. Unfortunately, they have to rely on chemical sunscreens

for protection.

I know some people on this list who have bad reactions to glycerin,

another ingredient that seems safe for a lot of people. I can use it,

but not all rosaceans can.

Which sunblock do you use that's exclusively titanium dioxide? I

haven't looked on the market because zinc doesn't bother me, but I'm

just curious.

Take care,

Matija

>

> Matija, I know what you mean about reacting to unexpected

> ingredients. I'm toying with the idea that I may be sensitive

> to...get this...zinc oxide! Haven't we been told that's the most

> gentle, most innocuous of ingredients? But every preparation I've

> tried, however benign the inactive ingredients, I react with

itching

> and a three day breakout.

>

> Re: the sunscreen stuff. That was a good article, thanks. I'd heard

> about the estrogen effect, but I don't know what to make of it. I'm

> more concerned about the potential irritation and limited

protection,

> but I don't even know if that's a big deal. I'm just going to stick

> with titanium dioxide (unless I begin a weird reaction to that

also!

> )

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

Yes, I have heard of some people reacting to zinc oxide with

breakouts. I read beauty and skincare discussion boards pretty

regularly and non-rosaceans have the same problems with zinc. Some

people can't use either that or titanium dioxide because of breakout

problems. Unfortunately, they have to rely on chemical sunscreens

for protection.

I know some people on this list who have bad reactions to glycerin,

another ingredient that seems safe for a lot of people. I can use it,

but not all rosaceans can.

Which sunblock do you use that's exclusively titanium dioxide? I

haven't looked on the market because zinc doesn't bother me, but I'm

just curious.

Take care,

Matija

>

> Matija, I know what you mean about reacting to unexpected

> ingredients. I'm toying with the idea that I may be sensitive

> to...get this...zinc oxide! Haven't we been told that's the most

> gentle, most innocuous of ingredients? But every preparation I've

> tried, however benign the inactive ingredients, I react with

itching

> and a three day breakout.

>

> Re: the sunscreen stuff. That was a good article, thanks. I'd heard

> about the estrogen effect, but I don't know what to make of it. I'm

> more concerned about the potential irritation and limited

protection,

> but I don't even know if that's a big deal. I'm just going to stick

> with titanium dioxide (unless I begin a weird reaction to that

also!

> )

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

> Yes, I have heard of some people reacting to zinc oxide with

> breakouts

I know I'm not alone, but it's a decidedly uncommon reaction.

> Which sunblock do you use that's exclusively titanium dioxide?

Clinique City Block.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

> Yes, I have heard of some people reacting to zinc oxide with

> breakouts

I know I'm not alone, but it's a decidedly uncommon reaction.

> Which sunblock do you use that's exclusively titanium dioxide?

Clinique City Block.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

> Yes, I have heard of some people reacting to zinc oxide with

> breakouts

I know I'm not alone, but it's a decidedly uncommon reaction.

> Which sunblock do you use that's exclusively titanium dioxide?

Clinique City Block.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Thanks for letting us know. I used this one for awhile, but it was

too hard to wash it off my face. I know that Cityblock has zinc oxide

in it, but it's not considered an active sunblock ingredient.

Thankfully, there's not enough in it to trigger bumps, flares, etc.

Take care,

Matija

>

> > Yes, I have heard of some people reacting to zinc oxide with

> > breakouts

>

> I know I'm not alone, but it's a decidedly uncommon reaction.

>

> > Which sunblock do you use that's exclusively titanium dioxide?

>

> Clinique City Block.

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Thanks for letting us know. I used this one for awhile, but it was

too hard to wash it off my face. I know that Cityblock has zinc oxide

in it, but it's not considered an active sunblock ingredient.

Thankfully, there's not enough in it to trigger bumps, flares, etc.

Take care,

Matija

>

> > Yes, I have heard of some people reacting to zinc oxide with

> > breakouts

>

> I know I'm not alone, but it's a decidedly uncommon reaction.

>

> > Which sunblock do you use that's exclusively titanium dioxide?

>

> Clinique City Block.

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Thanks for letting us know. I used this one for awhile, but it was

too hard to wash it off my face. I know that Cityblock has zinc oxide

in it, but it's not considered an active sunblock ingredient.

Thankfully, there's not enough in it to trigger bumps, flares, etc.

Take care,

Matija

>

> > Yes, I have heard of some people reacting to zinc oxide with

> > breakouts

>

> I know I'm not alone, but it's a decidedly uncommon reaction.

>

> > Which sunblock do you use that's exclusively titanium dioxide?

>

> Clinique City Block.

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

> I used this one for awhile, but it was too hard to wash it off my

> face.

Hmmm, I never had a problem with that. What cleanser are you using?

> I know that Cityblock has zinc oxide in it, but it's not considered

> an active sunblock ingredient. Thankfully, there's not enough in it

> to trigger bumps, flares, etc.

I know, it's weird, a few products I use have zinc oxide at the

bottom of the list and I don't have a problem with any of them.

ceaCare's moisturizer even has zinc oxide in the middle of its

ingredients and my skin does well with it. I can't quite figure out

what's going on with specifically these zinc oxide sunblocks and me.

And zinc oxide is fine when used anywhere else on my body.

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of City Block, I need to really

moisturize well before applying it. But it protects my skin even when

I'm on doxycycline, I can use it instead of foundation during the

day, and I don't break out from it. High praise, nowadays.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

> I used this one for awhile, but it was too hard to wash it off my

> face.

Hmmm, I never had a problem with that. What cleanser are you using?

> I know that Cityblock has zinc oxide in it, but it's not considered

> an active sunblock ingredient. Thankfully, there's not enough in it

> to trigger bumps, flares, etc.

I know, it's weird, a few products I use have zinc oxide at the

bottom of the list and I don't have a problem with any of them.

ceaCare's moisturizer even has zinc oxide in the middle of its

ingredients and my skin does well with it. I can't quite figure out

what's going on with specifically these zinc oxide sunblocks and me.

And zinc oxide is fine when used anywhere else on my body.

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of City Block, I need to really

moisturize well before applying it. But it protects my skin even when

I'm on doxycycline, I can use it instead of foundation during the

day, and I don't break out from it. High praise, nowadays.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

> I used this one for awhile, but it was too hard to wash it off my

> face.

Hmmm, I never had a problem with that. What cleanser are you using?

> I know that Cityblock has zinc oxide in it, but it's not considered

> an active sunblock ingredient. Thankfully, there's not enough in it

> to trigger bumps, flares, etc.

I know, it's weird, a few products I use have zinc oxide at the

bottom of the list and I don't have a problem with any of them.

ceaCare's moisturizer even has zinc oxide in the middle of its

ingredients and my skin does well with it. I can't quite figure out

what's going on with specifically these zinc oxide sunblocks and me.

And zinc oxide is fine when used anywhere else on my body.

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of City Block, I need to really

moisturize well before applying it. But it protects my skin even when

I'm on doxycycline, I can use it instead of foundation during the

day, and I don't break out from it. High praise, nowadays.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

on 4/8/02 1:17 PM, Dennis & Galway at dgalway@... wrote:

>

> -----

> " ruizdelvizo@...>

>> Salicylic acid does irritate my skin. I guess I'm an unusual

> Hi there

> I concur 100%. My current upset skin situation can all be traced to my use

> of a SAGE product contained salicylic acid. Or that is my belief. I was told

> that the 2% concentration in the product did not the proper Ph for it to

> work as an exfoliant, but that it was an anti-inflammatory. I had quite the

> opposite reaction. I will never, never, never use salicylic acid on my face

> again.

>

>

Me too. About a year ago I was using Neutragena's product, a gel, Deep Pore

cleanser or something along those lines. At first it was great and my skin

was so smooth, but then a rebound red irritation developed. Never again!

[Guest guest]

I used to have trouble washing off all sunblocks from my face, but

the Cityblock used to give me the most trouble. It really used to

stick to my face really well which was good for sun protection. I

used to alternate between Zia Fresh Cleansing Gel and the Tolerain

Dermo Cleanser. They didn't irritate my face, but they didn't

completely wash away all oils, grime, etc.

I now use Dr. Sy's test cleanser for seb derm and that does the best

job of cleaning without irritating. It does take off all old

sunblock, oils, etc. It's not on the market yet, but I hope it will

be soon. A close second is Aveeno's Creamy Baby Cleanser. That one is

good too.

Another sunblock that I use is Roth's Max Tinted

Protective Day Cream spf 30. It's moisturizing and does not cause

breakouts for me. The only problem with it is you can't put too much

of it on your face or you end up looking like a mime. I use it when I

know I'll be outdoors for longer than 30 minutes.

Here are the ingredients in case anyone is interested:

Active Ingredients: Titanium Dioxide, Zinc Oxide

Inactive Ingredients: Purified Water, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Octyl

Palmitate, Cetyl Dimethicone Copolyol, Microcrystalline Wax,

Polyglyceryl-3 Oleate, Dimethicone, Whole Leaf Aloe Vera Gel,

Glycoproteins, Sodium Hyaluronate (A) Hydrolyzed Glycosaminoglycans,

Extract Of Ahnfeltia Concinna, Extract Of Mallow, Extract of Ivy,

Extract Of Parietary, Extract Of Cucumber, Extract Of Sambucus,

Extract Of Arnica, Sodium Lactate, Sodium PCA, Soy Extract (Glyceric

Soya), Ceramides III, Tocopheryl Acetate, Butylene Glycol,

Polyhydroxystearic Acid, Hydroxyethylcellulose, olidinyl Urea,

Methylparaben, Sodium Chloride, Propylparaben, Iron Oxide Yellow,

Iron Oxide Red

Take care,

Matija

>

> > I used this one for awhile, but it was too hard to wash it off my

> > face.

>

> Hmmm, I never had a problem with that. What cleanser are you using?

>

> > I know that Cityblock has zinc oxide in it, but it's not

considered

> > an active sunblock ingredient. Thankfully, there's not enough in

it

> > to trigger bumps, flares, etc.

>

> I know, it's weird, a few products I use have zinc oxide at the

> bottom of the list and I don't have a problem with any of them.

> ceaCare's moisturizer even has zinc oxide in the middle of its

> ingredients and my skin does well with it. I can't quite figure out

> what's going on with specifically these zinc oxide sunblocks and

me.

> And zinc oxide is fine when used anywhere else on my body.

>

> Honestly, I'm not a big fan of City Block, I need to really

> moisturize well before applying it. But it protects my skin even

when

> I'm on doxycycline, I can use it instead of foundation during the

> day, and I don't break out from it. High praise, nowadays.

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

I should add that I find Dr. Sy's ZincO Cream the easiest sunblock to

work with. I like to use that as a foundation for my skin every day.

Take care,

Matija

-- In rosacea-support@y..., " emarjency " wrote:

>

>

> > I used this one for awhile, but it was too hard to wash it off my

> > face.

>

> Hmmm, I never had a problem with that. What cleanser are you using?

>

> > I know that Cityblock has zinc oxide in it, but it's not

considered

> > an active sunblock ingredient. Thankfully, there's not enough in

it

> > to trigger bumps, flares, etc.

>

> I know, it's weird, a few products I use have zinc oxide at the

> bottom of the list and I don't have a problem with any of them.

> ceaCare's moisturizer even has zinc oxide in the middle of its

> ingredients and my skin does well with it. I can't quite figure out

> what's going on with specifically these zinc oxide sunblocks and

me.

> And zinc oxide is fine when used anywhere else on my body.

>

> Honestly, I'm not a big fan of City Block, I need to really

> moisturize well before applying it. But it protects my skin even

when

> I'm on doxycycline, I can use it instead of foundation during the

> day, and I don't break out from it. High praise, nowadays.

>

> Marjorie

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

> I should add that I find Dr. Sy's ZincO Cream the easiest sunblock

> to work with. I like to use that as a foundation for my skin every

> day.

I like the consistency too. Unfortunately, I itch then break out to

it.

Anyone know if there's a titanium dioxide equivalent? (TitO Cream?

)

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

At our local Wal-Mart, I recently purchased a SUNBLOCK

from Neutrogena, for sensitive skin. The only active

ingredient listed was titanium dioxide. I'm at work

and don't have the bottle with me so I can't give the

inactive ingredients. I've used it once, but I do

plan to use it this summer when I'm outside. It goes

on white and kind of thick, but I was able to smooth

it out. Zinco makes me itch and breaks me out.

--- emarjency emarjency@...> wrote:

>

>

> > I should add that I find Dr. Sy's ZincO Cream the

> easiest sunblock

> > to work with. I like to use that as a foundation

> for my skin every

> > day.

>

> I like the consistency too. Unfortunately, I itch

> then break out to

> it.

>

> Marjorie Lazoff, MD

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --

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> Your post will be delayed if you don't give a

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>

> See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently

> published book.

>

> To leave the list send an email to

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>

>

[Guest guest]

> At our local Wal-Mart, I recently purchased a SUNBLOCK

> from Neutrogena, for sensitive skin. The only active

> ingredient listed was titanium dioxide...

I recall checking them out, and it did look good. If I recall, my

only concern was that it contains Vitamin E (tocopherol), which is

another one of my personal irritation suspects.

I suspect this topical anti-oxidant stuff is just another marketing

gimmick. With the exception of Vitamin C -- which we already talked

about here, and which is clearly irritating in the only form and

concentration known to be effective to the skin -- I don't believe

any other topical anti-oxidant has been shown to do anything

beneficial. I wouldn't think so, understanding their proposed

mechanism of action. And most if not all are known potential skin

irritants.

I would think that taking Vitamin C and E in foods or vitamins would

help protect the skin along with the rest of the body -- and without

the potential irritation.

I don't know. Does anyone?

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

> At our local Wal-Mart, I recently purchased a SUNBLOCK

> from Neutrogena, for sensitive skin. The only active

> ingredient listed was titanium dioxide...

I recall checking them out, and it did look good. If I recall, my

only concern was that it contains Vitamin E (tocopherol), which is

another one of my personal irritation suspects.

I suspect this topical anti-oxidant stuff is just another marketing

gimmick. With the exception of Vitamin C -- which we already talked

about here, and which is clearly irritating in the only form and

concentration known to be effective to the skin -- I don't believe

any other topical anti-oxidant has been shown to do anything

beneficial. I wouldn't think so, understanding their proposed

mechanism of action. And most if not all are known potential skin

irritants.

I would think that taking Vitamin C and E in foods or vitamins would

help protect the skin along with the rest of the body -- and without

the potential irritation.

I don't know. Does anyone?

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

[Guest guest]

> At our local Wal-Mart, I recently purchased a SUNBLOCK

> from Neutrogena, for sensitive skin. The only active

> ingredient listed was titanium dioxide...

I recall checking them out, and it did look good. If I recall, my

only concern was that it contains Vitamin E (tocopherol), which is

another one of my personal irritation suspects.

I suspect this topical anti-oxidant stuff is just another marketing

gimmick. With the exception of Vitamin C -- which we already talked

about here, and which is clearly irritating in the only form and

concentration known to be effective to the skin -- I don't believe

any other topical anti-oxidant has been shown to do anything

beneficial. I wouldn't think so, understanding their proposed

mechanism of action. And most if not all are known potential skin

irritants.

I would think that taking Vitamin C and E in foods or vitamins would

help protect the skin along with the rest of the body -- and without

the potential irritation.

I don't know. Does anyone?

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD