Re: Osteochondritis dissecans

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/15/2004 1:22:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,

stacey8127@... writes:

Hi Everyone

I was wondering if any one has ever heard of this and / or does it

have a connection with EDS? My cousin is suspected of having this.

She does not have EDS (at least not diagnosed or show symptoms) but is

on the side of the famliy that I got the EDS genes from. Any

information would be greatly appreciated.

Stacey

Hi Stacey

Yes, I researched it up to the hilt. My son, who is now almost 21 had it @ 2

years ago. It was only brought to our attention by coincidence, because he

had a knee X-Ray because he's a hockey player (and yes, by some grace of God,

neither of my kids have EDS) & during a game, he went knee first into the

boards. They saw this " thing " . It was Osteochondritis dissecans. It was

unrelated to the hockey injury, but we were told & really, I read every article

I

think that was ever written on it & it's something that many kids have, but it

usually heels on it's own. It should surely heal by puberty & since his was

rather large & he was 19, he had day surgery, by the team MD at the U of Conn.

We

wanted it done by my Docs in NYC, but with the teams, especially their famous

basketball teams there, once we met the surgeon, we were totally fine with

it. It was a day surgery & he was in an immobilize for a while & this really

shocked me. We are really getting our money's worth at UConn. They shuttled

him around from class to class, wherever he needed to go, on campus. Blew my

mind. The surgery was on a Friday, he was back in class on Monday. After PT &

all he was perfectly fine & it, so I was told & from my research, is not

related to EDS. It happens in kids all the time. And doesn't have EDS

anyway. And though technically we can't prove it, because I'm hypermobile, my 2

kids have been seen 3 times by Dr. Petros Tsipouras & at Hopkins. If I ask

Petros one more time, he's gonna shoot me. They don't have it.

But as far as the surgery, they said they did it, somewhat because he was a

bit older & it should have been gone & they wanted, as did he, back onto the

hockey rink. And now, you'd never know anything happened. Anyway, that's my 2

cents. I wish you all well & if I can do anything else, please feel free to

contact me. Schoenberg

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/15/2004 1:22:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,

stacey8127@... writes:

Hi Everyone

I was wondering if any one has ever heard of this and / or does it

have a connection with EDS? My cousin is suspected of having this.

She does not have EDS (at least not diagnosed or show symptoms) but is

on the side of the famliy that I got the EDS genes from. Any

information would be greatly appreciated.

Stacey

Hi Stacey

Yes, I researched it up to the hilt. My son, who is now almost 21 had it @ 2

years ago. It was only brought to our attention by coincidence, because he

had a knee X-Ray because he's a hockey player (and yes, by some grace of God,

neither of my kids have EDS) & during a game, he went knee first into the

boards. They saw this " thing " . It was Osteochondritis dissecans. It was

unrelated to the hockey injury, but we were told & really, I read every article

I

think that was ever written on it & it's something that many kids have, but it

usually heels on it's own. It should surely heal by puberty & since his was

rather large & he was 19, he had day surgery, by the team MD at the U of Conn.

We

wanted it done by my Docs in NYC, but with the teams, especially their famous

basketball teams there, once we met the surgeon, we were totally fine with

it. It was a day surgery & he was in an immobilize for a while & this really

shocked me. We are really getting our money's worth at UConn. They shuttled

him around from class to class, wherever he needed to go, on campus. Blew my

mind. The surgery was on a Friday, he was back in class on Monday. After PT &

all he was perfectly fine & it, so I was told & from my research, is not

related to EDS. It happens in kids all the time. And doesn't have EDS

anyway. And though technically we can't prove it, because I'm hypermobile, my 2

kids have been seen 3 times by Dr. Petros Tsipouras & at Hopkins. If I ask

Petros one more time, he's gonna shoot me. They don't have it.

But as far as the surgery, they said they did it, somewhat because he was a

bit older & it should have been gone & they wanted, as did he, back onto the

hockey rink. And now, you'd never know anything happened. Anyway, that's my 2

cents. I wish you all well & if I can do anything else, please feel free to

contact me. Schoenberg

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/15/2004 1:22:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,

stacey8127@... writes:

Hi Everyone

I was wondering if any one has ever heard of this and / or does it

have a connection with EDS? My cousin is suspected of having this.

She does not have EDS (at least not diagnosed or show symptoms) but is

on the side of the famliy that I got the EDS genes from. Any

information would be greatly appreciated.

Stacey

Hi Stacey

Yes, I researched it up to the hilt. My son, who is now almost 21 had it @ 2

years ago. It was only brought to our attention by coincidence, because he

had a knee X-Ray because he's a hockey player (and yes, by some grace of God,

neither of my kids have EDS) & during a game, he went knee first into the

boards. They saw this " thing " . It was Osteochondritis dissecans. It was

unrelated to the hockey injury, but we were told & really, I read every article

I

think that was ever written on it & it's something that many kids have, but it

usually heels on it's own. It should surely heal by puberty & since his was

rather large & he was 19, he had day surgery, by the team MD at the U of Conn.

We

wanted it done by my Docs in NYC, but with the teams, especially their famous

basketball teams there, once we met the surgeon, we were totally fine with

it. It was a day surgery & he was in an immobilize for a while & this really

shocked me. We are really getting our money's worth at UConn. They shuttled

him around from class to class, wherever he needed to go, on campus. Blew my

mind. The surgery was on a Friday, he was back in class on Monday. After PT &

all he was perfectly fine & it, so I was told & from my research, is not

related to EDS. It happens in kids all the time. And doesn't have EDS

anyway. And though technically we can't prove it, because I'm hypermobile, my 2

kids have been seen 3 times by Dr. Petros Tsipouras & at Hopkins. If I ask

Petros one more time, he's gonna shoot me. They don't have it.

But as far as the surgery, they said they did it, somewhat because he was a

bit older & it should have been gone & they wanted, as did he, back onto the

hockey rink. And now, you'd never know anything happened. Anyway, that's my 2

cents. I wish you all well & if I can do anything else, please feel free to

contact me. Schoenberg

[Guest guest]

> Hi Everyone

>

> I was wondering if any one has ever heard of this and / or does it

> have a connection with EDS?

Hi Stacey,

This is wierd that you should ask this right now. My niece called

last night, and her daughter has something just like this - I can't

remember if this is what she called it or not, but it is the same

description of symptoms. The doctor told her to curtain her

activities for a week, and gave her some type of braces for her

shoes, like orthotics I guess, and prescribed physical therapy.

That's all I know about it though. I suspect her Mom, my niece, has

EDS, but has never been diagnosed with it - she has Lupus very badly,

and that also has hypermobility as a symptom. I AM sure, though that

HER Mom, my sister, had EDS (though never diagnosed either) and

Rheumatoid Arthritis. She passed from a brain tumor several years

ago. Let me know when you find out anything about it.

Love Lana

p.s. Hope things are getting better/easier for you!

[Guest guest]

Stacey, I did find this:

Also, I didn't read far enough, I know my great niece didn't have any

lesions, so it's probably different than this. Hope this helps a bit.

Love Lana

Unclear Cause

Although OCD has been well described, the cause of the disorder

remains uncertain. Many etiologies have been proposed, including

trauma, ischemia, and additional factors that might predispose

patients to the disorder (1-4,6-9).

A traumatic origin is supported by multiple studies (1,3,5,6,9).

Approximately 40% of patients presenting with OCD of the knee have a

history of major or repetitive knee trauma, and 60% of patients

presenting with OCD participate in a high level of athletic activity

(3).

Certain aspects of normal knee anatomy may be a causal factor in OCD.

The medial femoral condyle lies close to the medial tibial spine, and

bears a broad attachment of the posterior cruciate ligament.

Repetitive shear stresses from the tibial spine during activity and

traction from the posterior cruciate ligament may account for the

frequency of lesions over the lateral aspect of the medial femoral

condyle (1,2,4,6,9).

Trauma may also be exacerbated by underlying knee abnormalities,

including biomechanical malalignment and internal derangement. For

example, OCD has been associated with genu valgum, genu varum, and

meniscus tears (3,4,8,9). Discoid menisci have been noted in 20% of

patients with OCD of the lateral femoral condyle. Many patients who

have OCD of the patella have a history of patella subluxation,

suggesting an association with ligament laxity and trauma (4).

While trauma may be the starting point for the development of OCD, it

is likely that vascular insufficiency ultimately leads to fragment

separation. In rapidly growing bone, the blood supply to the

epiphysis and secondary centers of ossification can be tenuous (1,6),

and a single traumatic event or repetitive microtrauma may interrupt

the vascular supply.

The high incidence of multiple and bilateral lesions is difficult to

explain by trauma and ischemia alone, and suggests that there are

additional factors that predispose some persons to develop OCD

(1,5,9). Various theories have been proposed, including genetic or

endocrine factors, generalized ligamentous laxity, and abnormalities

of secondary ossification centers (1,2,3,9). It is likely that the

etiology of OCD is multifactorial.

[Guest guest]

Stacey, I did find this:

Also, I didn't read far enough, I know my great niece didn't have any

lesions, so it's probably different than this. Hope this helps a bit.

Love Lana

Unclear Cause

Although OCD has been well described, the cause of the disorder

remains uncertain. Many etiologies have been proposed, including

trauma, ischemia, and additional factors that might predispose

patients to the disorder (1-4,6-9).

A traumatic origin is supported by multiple studies (1,3,5,6,9).

Approximately 40% of patients presenting with OCD of the knee have a

history of major or repetitive knee trauma, and 60% of patients

presenting with OCD participate in a high level of athletic activity

(3).

Certain aspects of normal knee anatomy may be a causal factor in OCD.

The medial femoral condyle lies close to the medial tibial spine, and

bears a broad attachment of the posterior cruciate ligament.

Repetitive shear stresses from the tibial spine during activity and

traction from the posterior cruciate ligament may account for the

frequency of lesions over the lateral aspect of the medial femoral

condyle (1,2,4,6,9).

Trauma may also be exacerbated by underlying knee abnormalities,

including biomechanical malalignment and internal derangement. For

example, OCD has been associated with genu valgum, genu varum, and

meniscus tears (3,4,8,9). Discoid menisci have been noted in 20% of

patients with OCD of the lateral femoral condyle. Many patients who

have OCD of the patella have a history of patella subluxation,

suggesting an association with ligament laxity and trauma (4).

While trauma may be the starting point for the development of OCD, it

is likely that vascular insufficiency ultimately leads to fragment

separation. In rapidly growing bone, the blood supply to the

epiphysis and secondary centers of ossification can be tenuous (1,6),

and a single traumatic event or repetitive microtrauma may interrupt

the vascular supply.

The high incidence of multiple and bilateral lesions is difficult to

explain by trauma and ischemia alone, and suggests that there are

additional factors that predispose some persons to develop OCD

(1,5,9). Various theories have been proposed, including genetic or

endocrine factors, generalized ligamentous laxity, and abnormalities

of secondary ossification centers (1,2,3,9). It is likely that the

etiology of OCD is multifactorial.

[Guest guest]

Stacey, I did find this:

Also, I didn't read far enough, I know my great niece didn't have any

lesions, so it's probably different than this. Hope this helps a bit.

Love Lana

Unclear Cause

Although OCD has been well described, the cause of the disorder

remains uncertain. Many etiologies have been proposed, including

trauma, ischemia, and additional factors that might predispose

patients to the disorder (1-4,6-9).

A traumatic origin is supported by multiple studies (1,3,5,6,9).

Approximately 40% of patients presenting with OCD of the knee have a

history of major or repetitive knee trauma, and 60% of patients

presenting with OCD participate in a high level of athletic activity

(3).

Certain aspects of normal knee anatomy may be a causal factor in OCD.

The medial femoral condyle lies close to the medial tibial spine, and

bears a broad attachment of the posterior cruciate ligament.

Repetitive shear stresses from the tibial spine during activity and

traction from the posterior cruciate ligament may account for the

frequency of lesions over the lateral aspect of the medial femoral

condyle (1,2,4,6,9).

Trauma may also be exacerbated by underlying knee abnormalities,

including biomechanical malalignment and internal derangement. For

example, OCD has been associated with genu valgum, genu varum, and

meniscus tears (3,4,8,9). Discoid menisci have been noted in 20% of

patients with OCD of the lateral femoral condyle. Many patients who

have OCD of the patella have a history of patella subluxation,

suggesting an association with ligament laxity and trauma (4).

While trauma may be the starting point for the development of OCD, it

is likely that vascular insufficiency ultimately leads to fragment

separation. In rapidly growing bone, the blood supply to the

epiphysis and secondary centers of ossification can be tenuous (1,6),

and a single traumatic event or repetitive microtrauma may interrupt

the vascular supply.

The high incidence of multiple and bilateral lesions is difficult to

explain by trauma and ischemia alone, and suggests that there are

additional factors that predispose some persons to develop OCD

(1,5,9). Various theories have been proposed, including genetic or

endocrine factors, generalized ligamentous laxity, and abnormalities

of secondary ossification centers (1,2,3,9). It is likely that the

etiology of OCD is multifactorial.

[Guest guest]

Hey Stacey I looked up OCD and found out the other name ofr it is

Osteochondral fracture and this I have had so I guess I have had OCD.

when I originally injured my knee in 1993 (tore my ACL, MCL and MORE)

I was also diagnosed with an osteochondral fracture about 8mm across

on the left Medial Femoral Condyle. This has coused hassles over time

and is from the intial trauma that caused me to tear the ligaments

and things (I stepped in a hole with my lower leg staying still and

my body rotating through my knee ).

Sharon

> Hi Everyone

>

> I was wondering if any one has ever heard of this and / or does it

> have a connection with EDS? My cousin is suspected of having this.

> She does not have EDS (at least not diagnosed or show symptoms) but

is

> on the side of the famliy that I got the EDS genes from. Any

> information would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Stacey

[Guest guest]

Hey Stacey I looked up OCD and found out the other name ofr it is

Osteochondral fracture and this I have had so I guess I have had OCD.

when I originally injured my knee in 1993 (tore my ACL, MCL and MORE)

I was also diagnosed with an osteochondral fracture about 8mm across

on the left Medial Femoral Condyle. This has coused hassles over time

and is from the intial trauma that caused me to tear the ligaments

and things (I stepped in a hole with my lower leg staying still and

my body rotating through my knee ).

Sharon

> Hi Everyone

>

> I was wondering if any one has ever heard of this and / or does it

> have a connection with EDS? My cousin is suspected of having this.

> She does not have EDS (at least not diagnosed or show symptoms) but

is

> on the side of the famliy that I got the EDS genes from. Any

> information would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Stacey

[Guest guest]

Hey Stacey I looked up OCD and found out the other name ofr it is

Osteochondral fracture and this I have had so I guess I have had OCD.

when I originally injured my knee in 1993 (tore my ACL, MCL and MORE)

I was also diagnosed with an osteochondral fracture about 8mm across

on the left Medial Femoral Condyle. This has coused hassles over time

and is from the intial trauma that caused me to tear the ligaments

and things (I stepped in a hole with my lower leg staying still and

my body rotating through my knee ).

Sharon

> Hi Everyone

>

> I was wondering if any one has ever heard of this and / or does it

> have a connection with EDS? My cousin is suspected of having this.

> She does not have EDS (at least not diagnosed or show symptoms) but

is

> on the side of the famliy that I got the EDS genes from. Any

> information would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Stacey

[Guest guest]

What Should I Know About Osteochondritis Dissecans?

What is OCD?

In osteochondritis dissecans (OCD for short), a loose piece of bone and

cartilage separates from the end of the bone. The loose piece may stay in

place or fall into the joint space, making the joint unstable. This causes

pain and feelings that the joint is " catching " or " giving way. " These loose

pieces are sometimes called " joint mice. " OCD usually affects the knees and

elbows.

Who gets OCD?

Anyone can get OCD, but it happens more often in boys and young men 10 to 20

years of age, while they are still growing. OCD is being diagnosed more

often in girls as they become more active in sports. It affects athletes,

especially gymnasts and baseball players.The adult form occurs in mature

bone, and the juvenile form occurs in growing bone.

How do I know my joint pain is OCD?

If you have a sore joint (especially your knee or elbow), see your doctor.

You might have swelling. You might not be able to extend your arm or leg

fully. Your pain may or may not be related to an injury. You may have pain

during activity and feel stiff after resting. These are all clues to your

doctor that you may have OCD. Your doctor will check you to be sure the

joint is stable and check for extra fluid in the joint. Your doctor will

consider the possible causes of joint pain, such as fractures, sprains and

OCD. If OCD is suspected, your doctor will order x-rays to check all sides

of the joint.

What tests should I have?

If signs of OCD are seen on x-ray of one joint, you'll have x-rays of both

joints to compare them. After this, you may have MRI (magnetic resonance

imaging). MRI can show if the loose piece is still in place or if it has

moved into the joint space. If the loose piece is unstable, you might need

surgery to remove it or secure it. If the loose piece is stable you may not

need surgery, but you may need other kinds of treatment.

Do I have to stop sports activities?

If a nonsurgical treatment is recommended, you should avoid activities that

cause discomfort. You should avoid competitive sports for six to eight

weeks. Your doctor may suggest stretching exercises or swimming instead.

Can OCD be cured?

Young people have the best chance of returning to their usual activity

level, although they might not be able to keep playing sports with

repetitive motions, such as baseball pitching. Adults are more likely to

need surgery and are less likely to be completely cured. They may get

arthritis in the joint later on.

This handout provides a general overview on this topic and may not apply to

everyone. To find out if this handout applies to you and to get more

information on this subject, talk to your family doctor.

Visit familydoctor.org for information on this and many other health-related

topics.

Copyright © 2000 by the American Academy of Family Physicians.

[Guest guest]

What Should I Know About Osteochondritis Dissecans?

What is OCD?

In osteochondritis dissecans (OCD for short), a loose piece of bone and

cartilage separates from the end of the bone. The loose piece may stay in

place or fall into the joint space, making the joint unstable. This causes

pain and feelings that the joint is " catching " or " giving way. " These loose

pieces are sometimes called " joint mice. " OCD usually affects the knees and

elbows.

Who gets OCD?

Anyone can get OCD, but it happens more often in boys and young men 10 to 20

years of age, while they are still growing. OCD is being diagnosed more

often in girls as they become more active in sports. It affects athletes,

especially gymnasts and baseball players.The adult form occurs in mature

bone, and the juvenile form occurs in growing bone.

How do I know my joint pain is OCD?

If you have a sore joint (especially your knee or elbow), see your doctor.

You might have swelling. You might not be able to extend your arm or leg

fully. Your pain may or may not be related to an injury. You may have pain

during activity and feel stiff after resting. These are all clues to your

doctor that you may have OCD. Your doctor will check you to be sure the

joint is stable and check for extra fluid in the joint. Your doctor will

consider the possible causes of joint pain, such as fractures, sprains and

OCD. If OCD is suspected, your doctor will order x-rays to check all sides

of the joint.

What tests should I have?

If signs of OCD are seen on x-ray of one joint, you'll have x-rays of both

joints to compare them. After this, you may have MRI (magnetic resonance

imaging). MRI can show if the loose piece is still in place or if it has

moved into the joint space. If the loose piece is unstable, you might need

surgery to remove it or secure it. If the loose piece is stable you may not

need surgery, but you may need other kinds of treatment.

Do I have to stop sports activities?

If a nonsurgical treatment is recommended, you should avoid activities that

cause discomfort. You should avoid competitive sports for six to eight

weeks. Your doctor may suggest stretching exercises or swimming instead.

Can OCD be cured?

Young people have the best chance of returning to their usual activity

level, although they might not be able to keep playing sports with

repetitive motions, such as baseball pitching. Adults are more likely to

need surgery and are less likely to be completely cured. They may get

arthritis in the joint later on.

This handout provides a general overview on this topic and may not apply to

everyone. To find out if this handout applies to you and to get more

information on this subject, talk to your family doctor.

Visit familydoctor.org for information on this and many other health-related

topics.

Copyright © 2000 by the American Academy of Family Physicians.

[Guest guest]

What Should I Know About Osteochondritis Dissecans?

What is OCD?

In osteochondritis dissecans (OCD for short), a loose piece of bone and

cartilage separates from the end of the bone. The loose piece may stay in

place or fall into the joint space, making the joint unstable. This causes

pain and feelings that the joint is " catching " or " giving way. " These loose

pieces are sometimes called " joint mice. " OCD usually affects the knees and

elbows.

Who gets OCD?

Anyone can get OCD, but it happens more often in boys and young men 10 to 20

years of age, while they are still growing. OCD is being diagnosed more

often in girls as they become more active in sports. It affects athletes,

especially gymnasts and baseball players.The adult form occurs in mature

bone, and the juvenile form occurs in growing bone.

How do I know my joint pain is OCD?

If you have a sore joint (especially your knee or elbow), see your doctor.

You might have swelling. You might not be able to extend your arm or leg

fully. Your pain may or may not be related to an injury. You may have pain

during activity and feel stiff after resting. These are all clues to your

doctor that you may have OCD. Your doctor will check you to be sure the

joint is stable and check for extra fluid in the joint. Your doctor will

consider the possible causes of joint pain, such as fractures, sprains and

OCD. If OCD is suspected, your doctor will order x-rays to check all sides

of the joint.

What tests should I have?

If signs of OCD are seen on x-ray of one joint, you'll have x-rays of both

joints to compare them. After this, you may have MRI (magnetic resonance

imaging). MRI can show if the loose piece is still in place or if it has

moved into the joint space. If the loose piece is unstable, you might need

surgery to remove it or secure it. If the loose piece is stable you may not

need surgery, but you may need other kinds of treatment.

Do I have to stop sports activities?

If a nonsurgical treatment is recommended, you should avoid activities that

cause discomfort. You should avoid competitive sports for six to eight

weeks. Your doctor may suggest stretching exercises or swimming instead.

Can OCD be cured?

Young people have the best chance of returning to their usual activity

level, although they might not be able to keep playing sports with

repetitive motions, such as baseball pitching. Adults are more likely to

need surgery and are less likely to be completely cured. They may get

arthritis in the joint later on.

This handout provides a general overview on this topic and may not apply to

everyone. To find out if this handout applies to you and to get more

information on this subject, talk to your family doctor.

Visit familydoctor.org for information on this and many other health-related

topics.

Copyright © 2000 by the American Academy of Family Physicians.