Re: Digest Number 957

[Guest guest]

Hi, & all,

With all the posts on magnesium recently, I wanted to bring up a paper from

long ago*, that showed that _intracellular_ magnesium is low in some PWCs.

Blood Mg levels are normal, but Mg in packed cells is low (there was a post

recently about a 'pellet test' that I think looks at Mg among other things

in a blood cell pellet.) These PWCs are helped somewhat with Mg injections,

but oral Mg is no help.

A follow-up study@ didn't find any significant benefits from IM Mg - also no

Mg deficiency in blood, plasma, or packed cells - but that was long before

there was any notion of subgroups.

Jerry

@ " Intravenous magnesium loading in chronic fatigue syndrome " , Clague, JE;

RHT & MJ , _Lancet_ V 340 p. ? (sorry!) 7/11/92

* " Red blood cell magnesium and chronic faatigue syndrome " , , IM, MJ

& D Dowson, _Lancet_ v.337 p 757 (3/30/91)

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to mention that Dr. Cheney prefers to use magnesium glycinate

form because it is utilized better for CFS patients.

Al

Re: Digest Number 957

> Hi, & all,

>

> With all the posts on magnesium recently, I wanted to bring up a paper

from

> long ago*, that showed that _intracellular_ magnesium is low in some PWCs.

> Blood Mg levels are normal, but Mg in packed cells is low (there was a

post

> recently about a 'pellet test' that I think looks at Mg among other things

> in a blood cell pellet.) These PWCs are helped somewhat with Mg

injections,

> but oral Mg is no help.

>

> A follow-up study@ didn't find any significant benefits from IM Mg - also

no

> Mg deficiency in blood, plasma, or packed cells - but that was long before

> there was any notion of subgroups.

>

> Jerry

>

> @ " Intravenous magnesium loading in chronic fatigue syndrome " , Clague, JE;

> RHT & MJ , _Lancet_ V 340 p. ? (sorry!) 7/11/92

>

> * " Red blood cell magnesium and chronic faatigue syndrome " , , IM, MJ

> & D Dowson, _Lancet_ v.337 p 757 (3/30/91)

>

> ________________________________________________________________________

> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

>The psychologist taught our daughter relaxtion techniques so that she

>will be able to handle things better if the bad thought ever come

>back.

>Kerrie

I just wanted to take a second to say that I've found relaxation techniques

to be absolutely invaluable in dealing with my OCD. I tend to use

controlled deep breathing, progressive muscle relaxation, and meditation to

bolster my defenses on a daily basis. I would HIGHLY recommend teaching OCD

children similar methods - in my experience, they're an absolute necessity.

-

[Guest guest]

>Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 23:18:52 -0400

>From: " P Hadzima " <hadzi@...>

>thanks Kerrie, I know the erp is expected to induce anxiety, it is just so

>hard. I am so afraid of it. My son is almost 12, also. the problem is he is

>not too free to share his thoughts. they are apparently to hard for him to

>talk about with anyone.

-----------------------

>Luckily she told my husband first about the bad thought

>about her sister. when he told me I nearly had a fit, so by the time

>she told me I was very calm and didnt act shocked. I will keep you in

>my thoughts and hope that your son will soon be able to open up.

>Kerrie

My girlfriend is currently struggling with the extreme intrusive thoughts

problem (she's OCD too, but only diagnosed a few years ago). I always tell

her:

" OCD will pick the most horrible, disgusting things it can to throw at you.

It will take ideas that you find horrendous and repugnant and force you to

live through them vicariously through intrusive thoughts. The very fact

that your OCD picks these thoughts indicates that these are things that you

would never do or allow to happen. The fact that they upset you so just

backs up that assertion. In some ways, the fact that OCD picks these

particular thoughts and they upset you so much just indicate how

kind-hearted a person you really are. "

In my life I've found the intrusive thoughts to be the most difficult things

to discuss with others. " Bad thoughts " as a child were bad enough - once

puberty hit and I began to understand more of the real-life horrors out

there the you-know-what hit the fan (mentally). It's difficult to explain

how grotesque intrusive thoughts can become. There is a real danger in

describing them to people who aren't familiar with the concept, and even

children are well-aware of this fact. Permanent personal rejection is very

likely, and there is always the danger that the person will call the

authorities, mistaking the intrusive thoughts for serial-killer fantasies

(or something equally extreme). I can only imagine how scared Kerrie's

daughter must have been to admit hers to her parents - that was an act of

incredible bravery on her part. I rarely discuss mine, even to this day. I

have talked to my girlfriend about a couple, but only to show her that she's

not alone in hers. I've discussed them in general with therapists and

psychs, but I guess that somewhere in the back of my mind there's a vague

fear that I'll be locked up if I shock the therapist too badly. That's an

unfounded fear, of course, but it's hard to break defenses that have lasted

a lifetime.

It's important to remember that these thoughts are intrusive. They aren't

repressed fantasies, but are rather indications of a sufferer's fears. My

experience has been that OCD sufferers are very UNLIKELY to act on any of

the thoughts - after all, the thoughts are the obessions and cause anxiety -

they aren't the compulsions.

-

[Guest guest]

,

where would we all be without you. Although our daughter is symptom

free at the moment I still keep up with this list, so that if it

comes back we will have more knowledge. Thank you for your comments

on my daughters bravery and also your positive comments on relaxation

techniques. I had a talk with my daughter yesterday and she said how

she loves doing the relaxtion thing. Now that her mind is free and

clear it is so relaxing to lay on her bed and close her eyes for 10

minutes and just let her mind roam free, wherever that takes her,

knowing that no unwanted thoughts will come to plague her.You were so

right that OCD picks the most horrible and disgusting thoughts ever,

my daughter knew that her bad thought about harming her sister was

not her own and was OCD but she still suffered so much grief that

such a thought would come into her head even though it was not her

own.I think this was her motivation to participate in ERT to be

exposed to it and confront it. She was indeed very brave, much more

than I could ever be, I'm so glad that those sessions were done with

just her and the therapist, it would have been so hard to sit and

listen to her relive it (she told me it was quite graphic). In

hindsight I'm amazed that she told us. I guess she felt safe with us

that we would know she wasnt a serial killer or something crazy, she

just kept telling us she felt so ashamed. I might add that during

this time she was extra nice to her sister, it helped relieve her

guilt and her sister had no idea what was going on, she just enjoyed

her sister being so nice to her.

thanks a million , keep sharing with us!

Kerrie-

-- In @y..., " " <English@I...> wrote:

> >Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 23:18:52 -0400

> >From: " P Hadzima " <hadzi@a...>

>

> >thanks Kerrie, I know the erp is expected to induce anxiety, it is

just so

> >hard. I am so afraid of it. My son is almost 12, also. the problem

is he is

> >not too free to share his thoughts. they are apparently to hard

for him to

> >talk about with anyone.

>

> -----------------------

>

> >Luckily she told my husband first about the bad thought

> >about her sister. when he told me I nearly had a fit, so by the

time

> >she told me I was very calm and didnt act shocked. I will keep you

in

> >my thoughts and hope that your son will soon be able to open up.

> >Kerrie

>

>

> My girlfriend is currently struggling with the extreme intrusive

thoughts

> problem (she's OCD too, but only diagnosed a few years ago). I

always tell

> her:

>

> " OCD will pick the most horrible, disgusting things it can to throw

at you.

> It will take ideas that you find horrendous and repugnant and force

you to

> live through them vicariously through intrusive thoughts. The very

fact

> that your OCD picks these thoughts indicates that these are things

that you

> would never do or allow to happen. The fact that they upset you so

just

> backs up that assertion. In some ways, the fact that OCD picks

these

> particular thoughts and they upset you so much just indicate how

> kind-hearted a person you really are. "

>

> In my life I've found the intrusive thoughts to be the most

difficult things

> to discuss with others. " Bad thoughts " as a child were bad enough -

once

> puberty hit and I began to understand more of the real-life horrors

out

> there the you-know-what hit the fan (mentally). It's difficult to

explain

> how grotesque intrusive thoughts can become. There is a real

danger in

> describing them to people who aren't familiar with the concept, and

even

> children are well-aware of this fact. Permanent personal rejection

is very

> likely, and there is always the danger that the person will call the

> authorities, mistaking the intrusive thoughts for serial-killer

fantasies

> (or something equally extreme). I can only imagine how scared

Kerrie's

> daughter must have been to admit hers to her parents - that was an

act of

> incredible bravery on her part. I rarely discuss mine, even to

this day. I

> have talked to my girlfriend about a couple, but only to show her

that she's

> not alone in hers. I've discussed them in general with therapists

and

> psychs, but I guess that somewhere in the back of my mind there's a

vague

> fear that I'll be locked up if I shock the therapist too badly.

That's an

> unfounded fear, of course, but it's hard to break defenses that

have lasted

> a lifetime.

>

> It's important to remember that these thoughts are intrusive. They

aren't

> repressed fantasies, but are rather indications of a sufferer's

fears. My

> experience has been that OCD sufferers are very UNLIKELY to act on

any of

> the thoughts - after all, the thoughts are the obessions and cause

anxiety -

> they aren't the compulsions.

>

> -

[Guest guest]

Ouch that must of been terrible......

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Message: 8

Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:34:58 -0700 (PDT)

From: Rambo <nrambo1651@...>

Subject: Re: Digest Number 957

Hello all,

Falling and our fears, trust me on this one, when

I fell between the boulders of the jetty at cape

may, nj 7 1/2 years ago it was HORRIBLE.

First, I had just been married for 3 days. (it

was my second time around @ age 45) I was between

the rocks up to my hips after i fell straight

down.....yes i shattered my lower left leg with

the tibia in 3 pieces and the fibula in toothpick

like form.

After i was rescued by a team of very special

guys and ambulance ride to the hospital and then

transferred to a hospital back home i had two

surgeries.....now have a steel rod from my knee

to my ankle and still some long screws....i

couldn't walk or put any weight on it for 8

months and that meant crutches which was awful

cause it only irritated the rest of my PA

w/shoulders, elbows, hands and my right leg which

had been broken 3 years earlier was pushed to the

endth degree.

I have been blessed, with time and lots of

determination and help from the Lord above I walk

without a limp....it took a long time.

be careful of those falls!

nanc

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/20/01 10:37:41 PM US Eastern Standard Time,

nrambo1651@... writes:

<< I fell between the boulders of the jetty at cape

may, nj 7 1/2 years ago it was HORRIBLE. >>

Nanc - You poor thing! I know the Jersey shore well and I cannot believe how

painful it would be to fall in a place like that! What a set back to your A.

Thank God you were able to walk again. I just posted to another member's

story of discouragement saying that they were disappointed no one had the

same symptoms they did. This is a prime example of what I said in my reply.

I've never broken my leg and never had an accident anywhere near this

magnitude (I did one break thru some wooden steps and damage my leg - all

soft tissue, and I still have trouble with it - but nothing broken) but I can

imagine the effect on the PA and what a credit to you that you worked so hard

to walk again. Posts like this inspire me to go on working to make the most

of my life even with PA. If you can work thru all that pain and all those

surgeries ON TOP OF having PA - then what am I complaining about?? Someone

always has something rougher to cope with than I do. While I certainly pray

that none of you has to deal with another health or joint problem on top of

PA, a lot of you do and that fact that you keep on going, no matter what, is

a great credit to your spirit and strength.

[Guest guest]

'oxyplus ' wrote:

====

- OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other

alternative self-help subjects.

-

- THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

-

- This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information

we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk.

Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take

responsibility ...'

> Take a look to the attachment.

[Guest guest]

Non text portions delete what the reply concerns, I guess.

Have had to delete a bunch...

Haven't seen the digest lately....send the www., please

Sincerely yours

lie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/11/02 9:19:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

writes:

<< Anyone else care to comment? I've only run across one other parent

who had a

> " hyperimmune " kid--most of them seem to have hypoimmunity.

>

> Thanks, my curiosity is killing me.

>

> Liane >>

Liane, the only comment I wanted to make is my son seems very normal when he

has a fever. He has Asperger's syndrome. When his fever is above 100, he

seems to behave as if there was never anything wrong.

The surprising thing about this is, I attended an Autism conference at the

end of last month. I found out that Dr. Zimmerman (a neurologist) was doing a

study on Autistic kids and fevers, and would be presenting at the conference.

I sent him an e-mail and asked if I could speak with him at the conference

about this. He replied and said he would be happy to.

Turns out he had me address the room at the end of the presentation. When

someone asked him if he was presently involved in any research, he looked at

me and nodded. When I asked the question, at least ten people raised their

hands. Looking around the room some parents were shaking their heads. Dr.

Zimmerman questioned some of them, and they claimed the fever had to be at

least 100. One women who sat behind me stopped me on my way out. She seemed

to be quite shocked by all of this. She had said her son only gets sick maybe

once every two years, and the last time he was hospitalized, he actually got

better. She put it down to not eating, because he always had food/stomach

problems. My son hardly ever gets sick, maybe once a year if that.

I think the immune system has a lot to do with our kids problems.

[Guest guest]

,

This is very interesting. Children who have over 100 degress do indeed not want

to eat.

Whatever they eat may be causing the problem.

Do you know for years I would nt eat breakfaast as i knew I would immediately

feel unwell and head for my bed. Mercury toxic and the food namely lots of

cheese tea with milk and then toast..lot of cassein and gluten unknowingly did

me in. To this day I try to do all my tasks in the morning before I eat

something. Then I give in at around 11 and then my brain goes...Having said that

I was a heck of a lot worse before I did these fatty acids and now chelation.

Bit I had my amalgams replaced in November and I am feeling the effects of that.

I am as i said doing the chelating and feeling so much more energetic and clear

headed.

So mayb thats why the kids feel better at 100 degrees. they are not ingesting

the foods which cause the problems in their systems!

She had said her son only gets sick maybe

once every two years, and the last time he was hospitalized, he actually got

better. She put it down to not eating, because he always had food/stomach

problems. My son hardly ever gets sick, maybe once a year if that.

I think the immune system has a lot to do with our kids problems.

[Guest guest]

, what you said about not wanting to eat because of how you felt

after, fits me like a Tee. I found out as early as Kingergarten if I

did not eat, I wouldn't get sick.

> ,

>

> This is very interesting. Children who have over 100 degress do

indeed not want to eat.

>

> Whatever they eat may be causing the problem.

>

> Do you know for years I would nt eat breakfaast as i knew I would

immediately feel unwell and head for my bed. Mercury toxic and the

food namely lots of cheese tea with milk and then toast..lot of

cassein and gluten unknowingly did me in. To this day I try to do all

my tasks in the morning before I eat something. Then I give in at

around 11 and then my brain goes...Having said that I was a heck of a

lot worse before I did these fatty acids and now chelation. Bit I had

my amalgams replaced in November and I am feeling the effects of

that. I am as i said doing the chelating and feeling so much more

energetic and clear headed.

>

> So mayb thats why the kids feel better at 100 degrees. they are not

ingesting the foods which cause the problems in their systems!

>

> She had said her son only gets sick maybe

> once every two years, and the last time he was hospitalized, he

actually got

> better. She put it down to not eating, because he always had

food/stomach

> problems. My son hardly ever gets sick, maybe once a year if that.

>

> I think the immune system has a lot to do with our kids problems.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow ,

I clued in only in high school but I think this is really interesting. Have

always been wondering about that....Sometimes the answers are so simple...

[ ] Re: Digest Number 957

, what you said about not wanting to eat because of how you felt

after, fits me like a Tee. I found out as early as Kingergarten if I

did not eat, I wouldn't get sick.

> ,

>

> This is very interesting. Children who have over 100 degress do

indeed not want to eat.

>

> Whatever they eat may be causing the problem.

>

> Do you know for years I would nt eat breakfaast as i knew I would

immediately feel unwell and head for my bed. Mercury toxic and the

food namely lots of cheese tea with milk and then toast..lot of

cassein and gluten unknowingly did me in. To this day I try to do all

my tasks in the morning before I eat something. Then I give in at

around 11 and then my brain goes...Having said that I was a heck of a

lot worse before I did these fatty acids and now chelation. Bit I had

my amalgams replaced in November and I am feeling the effects of

that. I am as i said doing the chelating and feeling so much more

energetic and clear headed.

>

> So mayb thats why the kids feel better at 100 degrees. they are not

ingesting the foods which cause the problems in their systems!

>

> She had said her son only gets sick maybe

> once every two years, and the last time he was hospitalized, he

actually got

> better. She put it down to not eating, because he always had

food/stomach

> problems. My son hardly ever gets sick, maybe once a year if that.

>

> I think the immune system has a lot to do with our kids problems.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

And then you have to see my husband. tHE MINUTE HE HAS BREAKFAST he falls asleep

and gets INCREDIBLY grumpy. Such a difference to when he wakes up. Hes Mr.

Chipper and then he eats and then watch out..Mr Hyde takes over. Goodness is

this ever interesting!!

That busts this silly myth...they used to tell us we felt tired because the

blood left the brain to visit the stomach in order to pick up the vital

nutrients. I wonder who disseminated that idea...

[ ] Re: Digest Number 957

, what you said about not wanting to eat because of how you felt

after, fits me like a Tee. I found out as early as Kingergarten if I

did not eat, I wouldn't get sick.

> ,

>

> This is very interesting. Children who have over 100 degress do

indeed not want to eat.

>

> Whatever they eat may be causing the problem.

>

> Do you know for years I would nt eat breakfaast as i knew I would

immediately feel unwell and head for my bed. Mercury toxic and the

food namely lots of cheese tea with milk and then toast..lot of

cassein and gluten unknowingly did me in. To this day I try to do all

my tasks in the morning before I eat something. Then I give in at

around 11 and then my brain goes...Having said that I was a heck of a

lot worse before I did these fatty acids and now chelation. Bit I had

my amalgams replaced in November and I am feeling the effects of

that. I am as i said doing the chelating and feeling so much more

energetic and clear headed.

>

> So mayb thats why the kids feel better at 100 degrees. they are not

ingesting the foods which cause the problems in their systems!

>

> She had said her son only gets sick maybe

> once every two years, and the last time he was hospitalized, he

actually got

> better. She put it down to not eating, because he always had

food/stomach

> problems. My son hardly ever gets sick, maybe once a year if that.

>

> I think the immune system has a lot to do with our kids problems.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/12/04 4:25:07 AM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> As far as I can tell, Columbia University is THE mouthpeice for the drug

> industry. They've sold out their high-falutin' reputation as an Ivy League

> school to get mega bucks from Big Pharma...you will rarely hear any comment

> from them that has any substance at all.

Don't worry, , I've got a gaggle of journalists investigating this

organization. Just sit tight -- the best is yet to come.

Blind Reason

a novel of espionage and pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/12/04 4:25:07 AM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> A Lilly spokesman, Rob , said the toxicology tests " in all likelihood "

> won't definitively prove whether the impact of the drug, duloxetine, or

> 's withdrawal from it, caused her to take her own life. " We have not

seen

> any sign that the drug can be linked to any kind of suicidal behavior, " he

> said.

EXCUSE ME??? They had a sign -- the girl killed herself. Man, if this isn't

an example of Orwellian doublespeak, I don't know what is. right in the face

of the evidence, they are denying that the drug was responsible, even though

she was a " healthy volunteer. " these people need to be put in a gulag and

forcefed this drug.

> ***The drug is being tested for both depression and stress urinary

> incontinence.

>

And this is the best comment yet. a double whammy of a drug. It treats

depression AND peeing in your pants! WHAT THE HELL IS THIS STUFF and WHY IS

STRESS INCONTINENCE such a problem that one must be put in a chemical

straitjacket

to treat it?

>

>

Blind Reason

a novel of espionage and pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/12/04 4:25:07 AM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> 1) It's not the drugs that cause suicide, the drugs are working. It's the

> disorder.

> these people were so bad off and then they got better on the drug and this

> gave

> them the strength to go through with suicide.

>

> 2) The drugs were working, it's that these " life saving treatments "

> are being administered by untrained doctors who do not know

> how to diagnose depression properly.

>

>

Jim, this crap is nothing more than propaganda, and the first rule of

propaganda is to repeat the lie over and over again until the truth becomes a

faint

memory. Those two statements are parroted by almost eveyr doctor who passes

out this garbage. They're like little robots, who have been programmed by the

Reich! LOL

Blind Reason

a novel of espionage and pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/12/04 4:25:07 AM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> (Ok, lemme get this straight, that poor girl DIED because of somebody

> pissing themselves laughing...funny, I've been a woman all my life and have

never

> heard that listed as one of the top complaints associated with being

> female...do I even need to comment on this? Actually, I'm laughing at this

moment

> AND I have to pee, so whadya think, do I need a potentially suicide inducing

> drug to treat this terrible affliction?)

>

: That was my reaction too? WTF?????? And of course, the condition

only affects women -- so let's make another chemical lobotomy for us, in fact,

if we take this stupid brain toxin we won't be laughing because we'll feel

like hell so there will be no chance of pissing in our pants. You've seen the

ads for Detrol??? The little tiny fine print at the bottom says it only

reduces the need to pee by ONE TIME A DAY!!! But you can spend a few hundred

bucks

a month to stop your bladder from working properly. WHAT PLANET AM I

ON???????

Blind Reason

a novel of espionage and pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/12/04 4:25:07 AM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> (Ok, lemme get this straight, that poor girl DIED because of somebody

> pissing themselves laughing...funny, I've been a woman all my life and have

never

> heard that listed as one of the top complaints associated with being

> female...do I even need to comment on this? Actually, I'm laughing at this

moment

> AND I have to pee, so whadya think, do I need a potentially suicide inducing

> drug to treat this terrible affliction?)

>

: That was my reaction too? WTF?????? And of course, the condition

only affects women -- so let's make another chemical lobotomy for us, in fact,

if we take this stupid brain toxin we won't be laughing because we'll feel

like hell so there will be no chance of pissing in our pants. You've seen the

ads for Detrol??? The little tiny fine print at the bottom says it only

reduces the need to pee by ONE TIME A DAY!!! But you can spend a few hundred

bucks

a month to stop your bladder from working properly. WHAT PLANET AM I

ON???????

Blind Reason

a novel of espionage and pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again.

[Guest guest]

Here's my letter to the journalists at the IndyStar:

After reading your article regarding this incident, I feel compelled to

comment on certain areas.

You wrote:

" Lily said Monday it does not believe the drug, duloxetine, was related to

the death of . . . . "

Well, WHAT WAS IT RELATED TO THEN? Am I living in Wonderland where

statements such as this actually make sense? The poor woman was a " healthy

volunteer "

-- that presumably means that she was not suffering from depression or any

other mental malady that would cause her to be suicidal. Yet she took this drug

(a combination psychiatric medication and incontinence drug) for only four

days before being switched to a placebo. She then commits suicide. And yet

Lily

denies that there is any connection between these events? Come on. Who do

you expect to believe such a ridiculous statement?

You wrote:

" Duloxetine is key to future business prospects of Lilly. . . . Analysts have

predicted sales of each could near $200 million this year. "

The bottomline here is simply about the bottomline. Let me see if I

understand this correctly: Eli Lily is trying to market a combo

antidepressant/incontence drug (targeted to women) -- a mini-cash cow, I'd say,

and they sure don't

want any negative publicity swirling around this drug. I've already read

reports that 4 other clinical trial participants for this drug committed

suicide.

Doesn't sound like Cymbalta is going to be good for much of anything, except

catapulting healthy women (with a urinary incontinence problem) into suicide.

You wrote:

" Based upon our intital review, we do not believe at this time that the

design or conduct of the study is related to the death. " said Lily would

continue looking into this matter, but added that " there's nothing to suggest

that this is anything but an isolated incident. "

An isolated incident that resulted in the death of a healthy volunteer who

took a psychiatric drug. I'm sitting here shaking my head.

Surely you are aware that during the clinical trials of Prozac, 12 volunteers

committed suicide. After that, the rest of the participants had to be

sedated with a benzo to keep the akathisia at bay. Given my own experience with

Paxil, I can tell you with a great degree of certainty that these drugs do cause

people to become suicidal (and homicidal). If you are really a responsible

journalist you will not let Lily off the hook with these pathetic statements

that there is no connection between this suicide and their drug. OF COURSE

THERE

IS A CONNECTION!!!! One need not be a rocket scientist or a

psychopharmacologist to see the link between the two events. And then there is

the outright

ridiculous statement by Clemens, who said he has worked on clinical

trials for more than 20 years, primarily in the food industry, and has never

seen a

death related specifically to a drug. That may be true, but not because it

doesn't happen but because he is working on clinical trials in the FOOD

INDUSTRY!!! Please don't quote idiots like that who make these stupid

statements.

No, I don't suppose that people are killing themselves in a clinical trial of

peanut butter, but the entire issue of the FDA hearings last week was SUICIDE

and SSRI drugs -- the data on which the pharmaceutical companies have kept

hidden for more than 20 years.

I hope your newspaper isn't going to whitewash this incident. Those of us

who have suffered greatly because of the ineptitude of the FDA and the pure and

utter greed of Big Pharma look to journalists to expose the truth about these

drugs. If suicide is a problem with Cymbalta, then it had damn well better be

labeled with a black box warning so that women who simply have an

incontinence problem find another solution rather than taking a drug that could

cause

them to commit suicide. Please continue to dog Eli Lily until they cough up the

truth about this drug. Society cannot afford another Paxil, Prozac, or Zoloft

on the market, even IF these drugs generate HUGE profits for the corporation.

Sincerely,

Trisha S_____________-

Paxil survivor, Paxil plaintiff, and author of

" Blind Reason

a novel of espionage and pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again.

Blind Reason

a novel of espionage and pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again.

[Guest guest]

Here's my letter to the journalists at the IndyStar:

After reading your article regarding this incident, I feel compelled to

comment on certain areas.

You wrote:

" Lily said Monday it does not believe the drug, duloxetine, was related to

the death of . . . . "

Well, WHAT WAS IT RELATED TO THEN? Am I living in Wonderland where

statements such as this actually make sense? The poor woman was a " healthy

volunteer "

-- that presumably means that she was not suffering from depression or any

other mental malady that would cause her to be suicidal. Yet she took this drug

(a combination psychiatric medication and incontinence drug) for only four

days before being switched to a placebo. She then commits suicide. And yet

Lily

denies that there is any connection between these events? Come on. Who do

you expect to believe such a ridiculous statement?

You wrote:

" Duloxetine is key to future business prospects of Lilly. . . . Analysts have

predicted sales of each could near $200 million this year. "

The bottomline here is simply about the bottomline. Let me see if I

understand this correctly: Eli Lily is trying to market a combo

antidepressant/incontence drug (targeted to women) -- a mini-cash cow, I'd say,

and they sure don't

want any negative publicity swirling around this drug. I've already read

reports that 4 other clinical trial participants for this drug committed

suicide.

Doesn't sound like Cymbalta is going to be good for much of anything, except

catapulting healthy women (with a urinary incontinence problem) into suicide.

You wrote:

" Based upon our intital review, we do not believe at this time that the

design or conduct of the study is related to the death. " said Lily would

continue looking into this matter, but added that " there's nothing to suggest

that this is anything but an isolated incident. "

An isolated incident that resulted in the death of a healthy volunteer who

took a psychiatric drug. I'm sitting here shaking my head.

Surely you are aware that during the clinical trials of Prozac, 12 volunteers

committed suicide. After that, the rest of the participants had to be

sedated with a benzo to keep the akathisia at bay. Given my own experience with

Paxil, I can tell you with a great degree of certainty that these drugs do cause

people to become suicidal (and homicidal). If you are really a responsible

journalist you will not let Lily off the hook with these pathetic statements

that there is no connection between this suicide and their drug. OF COURSE

THERE

IS A CONNECTION!!!! One need not be a rocket scientist or a

psychopharmacologist to see the link between the two events. And then there is

the outright

ridiculous statement by Clemens, who said he has worked on clinical

trials for more than 20 years, primarily in the food industry, and has never

seen a

death related specifically to a drug. That may be true, but not because it

doesn't happen but because he is working on clinical trials in the FOOD

INDUSTRY!!! Please don't quote idiots like that who make these stupid

statements.

No, I don't suppose that people are killing themselves in a clinical trial of

peanut butter, but the entire issue of the FDA hearings last week was SUICIDE

and SSRI drugs -- the data on which the pharmaceutical companies have kept

hidden for more than 20 years.

I hope your newspaper isn't going to whitewash this incident. Those of us

who have suffered greatly because of the ineptitude of the FDA and the pure and

utter greed of Big Pharma look to journalists to expose the truth about these

drugs. If suicide is a problem with Cymbalta, then it had damn well better be

labeled with a black box warning so that women who simply have an

incontinence problem find another solution rather than taking a drug that could

cause

them to commit suicide. Please continue to dog Eli Lily until they cough up the

truth about this drug. Society cannot afford another Paxil, Prozac, or Zoloft

on the market, even IF these drugs generate HUGE profits for the corporation.

Sincerely,

Trisha S_____________-

Paxil survivor, Paxil plaintiff, and author of

" Blind Reason

a novel of espionage and pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again.

Blind Reason

a novel of espionage and pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again.

[Guest guest]

,

so true, I find it fascinating that the same line comes out of different doctors

spontaneously.

Telepathy?

Jim

Re: Digest Number 957

In a message dated 2/12/04 4:25:07 AM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> 1) It's not the drugs that cause suicide, the drugs are working. It's the

> disorder.

> these people were so bad off and then they got better on the drug and this

> gave

> them the strength to go through with suicide.

>

> 2) The drugs were working, it's that these " life saving treatments "

> are being administered by untrained doctors who do not know

> how to diagnose depression properly.

>

>

Jim, this crap is nothing more than propaganda, and the first rule of

propaganda is to repeat the lie over and over again until the truth becomes a

faint

memory. Those two statements are parroted by almost eveyr doctor who passes

out this garbage. They're like little robots, who have been programmed by the

Reich! LOL

Blind Reason

a novel of espionage and pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again.

[Guest guest]

,

so true, I find it fascinating that the same line comes out of different doctors

spontaneously.

Telepathy?

Jim

Re: Digest Number 957

In a message dated 2/12/04 4:25:07 AM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> 1) It's not the drugs that cause suicide, the drugs are working. It's the

> disorder.

> these people were so bad off and then they got better on the drug and this

> gave

> them the strength to go through with suicide.

>

> 2) The drugs were working, it's that these " life saving treatments "

> are being administered by untrained doctors who do not know

> how to diagnose depression properly.

>

>

Jim, this crap is nothing more than propaganda, and the first rule of

propaganda is to repeat the lie over and over again until the truth becomes a

faint

memory. Those two statements are parroted by almost eveyr doctor who passes

out this garbage. They're like little robots, who have been programmed by the

Reich! LOL

Blind Reason

a novel of espionage and pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again.

[Guest guest]

WE also use Optifast at my facility for at least one week prior to surgery to of course loose weight before surgery, and to also shrink the liver and optimize nutritional status. I find most patients to be compliant with it and are especially pleased when they see the weight coming off; it helps to put them in a more motivated frame of mind for after surgery. We also have post op patients continue it for added protein as well as longer post op to restart their weight loss to help them "refocus". Staci Stone, RD CDN Center for Obesity Surgery Lawrence Hospital Center, NY wrote: There are 23 messages in this issue.Topics in this digest:1. Re: Omega 3 dosage in obesityFrom: "Monika Woolsey" 2. Re: Gastric

Bypass and PregnancyFrom: "kaminsusan" 3. RE: Re: Gastric Bypass and Pregnan cyFrom: "Jenne, Stacey ARMC-Nutrition Services" 4. dialysisFrom: Janelle Heusinger 5. RE: dialysisFrom: "Laschkwitsch, :LPH Obes Inst" 6. Blue food dyeFrom: "chris_ilcheson" 7. gas/diarrheaFrom: Kristyn Lassek 8. ParalysisFrom: "Nazy Zarshenas" 9. RE: Blue food dyeFrom: " Betty" 10. RE: ParalysisFrom: "Laschkwitsch, :LPH Obes Inst" 11. RE: Blue food dyeFrom: R@...12. RE: intake goalsFrom: Beth Taschuk 13. Re: ParalysisFrom: lesbuck12@...14. Pre-op diet suggestionsFrom: "dorothymclaughlin1"

15. RE: gas/diarrheaFrom: "suem4" 16. Re: ParalysisFrom: "jpaulis1" 17. RE: Re: ParalysisFrom: "Nazy Zarshenas" 18. RE: Pre-op diet suggestionsFrom: "Nazy Zarshenas" 19. Fwd: dialysisFrom: Janelle Heusinger 20. Re: gas/diarrheaFrom: " Strathdee" 21. RE: Pre-op diet suggestionsFrom: "Olson Diane L." 22. Re: Gastric Bypass and PregnancyFrom: " Strathdee" 23. RE: Pre-op diet suggestionsFrom: "Gundermann, " ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Message: 1 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:50:31

-0700From: "Monika Woolsey" Subject: Re: Omega 3 dosage in obesity,Apparently, it's actual body weight.I have seen this in action--several times. For example, a client/friend had to go up to about 6 Costco capsules a day to see changes in her metabolic profile. Her night eating disappeared, her weight dropped significantly, and her carbohydrate cravings completely disappeared.That's why I tell people to add a capsule/day until the cravings are gone (of course, they also need to eliminate as much omega-6 as possible, and that will keep the needed omega-3 dose as low as possible.)Monika ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Message: 2 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 18:45:56 -0000From: "kaminsusan" Subject: Re: Gastric Bypass and

PregnancyI would also love to receive any information you can share. I have a pt who is 6 weeks post-op and pregnant. Not sure how far along. Her pre-op pregnancy test was negative, although it may have been too early to show up. Anyway, not sure where to go with this. We have had patients pregnant a year or more post-op, but never this soon. My fax is 860 224 5803. Or you can email me. Many thanks. KaminNew Britain General Hospital-- In , " Strathdee" wrote:>> Stacey,> > I have some info I can fax to you if you give me your fax #, as time is short until this pt is seen.> > Strathdee, RD, LD, LMHC> Genesis Medical Center, Davenport, IA> > >>> jennes@... 1/30/2006 3:00 PM >>>> One of our dietitians that covers the high risk OB clinic will be seeing a>

pregnant gastric bypass patient in a week. This patient is 25 yo, 2 months> post op and about 6 weeks pregnant. What are the recommendations for this> group?> > Thanks for your help.> Stacey Jenne, RD>________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Message: 3 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:00:42 -0800From: "Jenne, Stacey ARMC-Nutrition Services" Subject: RE: Re: Gastric Bypass and Pregnan cyHi ,I am getting ready to leave for the day. But, on Monday I will fax you what sent to me and email you the other info I am getting!Stacey Jenne, RD_____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf OfkaminsusanSent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:46

AM Subject: Re: Gastric Bypass and PregnancyI would also love to receive any information you can share. I have a pt who is 6 weeks post-op and pregnant. Not sure how far along. Her pre-op pregnancy test was negative, although it may have been too early to show up. Anyway, not sure where to go with this. We have had patients pregnant a year or more post-op, but never this soon. My fax is 860 224 5803. Or you can email me. Many thanks. KaminNew Britain General Hospital-- In , " Strathdee" wrote:>> Stacey,> > I have some info I can fax to you if you give me your fax #, as time is short until this pt is seen.> > Strathdee, RD, LD, LMHC> Genesis Medical Center, Davenport, IA> > >>> jennes@...

1/30/2006 3:00 PM >>>> One of our dietitians that covers the high risk OB clinic will be seeing a> pregnant gastric bypass patient in a week. This patient is 25 yo, 2 months> post op and about 6 weeks pregnant. What are the recommendations for this> group?> > Thanks for your help.> Stacey Jenne, RD>

[Guest guest]

Is she drinking anything carbonated? We do not allow diet or regular carbonated beverages.