Re: POA and Bank Accounts - a cautionary note

[Guest guest]

For those that might be concerned about Inheritance Tax, in some states there is

something called Payable of Death (POD) which means that the account goes to the

designated person or charity and does not require probate, etc. It is also

private and no one needs to know but the owner and recipients - unlike a will

which is public.

" A Payable on Death Account can be a

bank account, a brokerage account,* an

IRA, a pension, or any other account that

allows you to name a beneficiary. It

designates the recipient of the account at

your death. "

I really believe whether large accounts or small, it saves some hassle at time

of death.

MA

>

>

> Date: 2005/08/11 Thu PM 03:40:50 EDT

> To: colon_cancer_support

> Subject: Re: POA and Bank Accounts - a cautionary note

>

>

[Guest guest]

For those that might be concerned about Inheritance Tax, in some states there is

something called Payable of Death (POD) which means that the account goes to the

designated person or charity and does not require probate, etc. It is also

private and no one needs to know but the owner and recipients - unlike a will

which is public.

" A Payable on Death Account can be a

bank account, a brokerage account,* an

IRA, a pension, or any other account that

allows you to name a beneficiary. It

designates the recipient of the account at

your death. "

I really believe whether large accounts or small, it saves some hassle at time

of death.

MA

>

>

> Date: 2005/08/11 Thu PM 03:40:50 EDT

> To: colon_cancer_support

> Subject: Re: POA and Bank Accounts - a cautionary note

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jolene - It was not the inheritance tax I was cautioning about but the

fact that assets intended for all one's kids could end up belonging to

just the one kid added to the bank account.

In addition, in PA, if your assets exceed your liabilities, no matter

how small, they are subject to PA's inheritance tax which ranges from

4.5 % to 15% depending on the relationship between the decedent and any

beneficiaries. You don't have to be rich in PA, only solvent, to have

your estate be subject to inheritance tax.

As for the cost, POA's prepared by an attorney cost around $50-$75

depending on the complexity. I just love how non-lawyers are quick to

declare legal fees a complete " waste of money " and advise people to get

their legal documents off the Internet or at an office supply store.

People who would never advise someone to be their own doctor, dentist or

automobile mechanic have no hesitation to advise them to be their own

lawyer. (You know what they say about any lawyer that represents

himself.....he has a fool for a client!) You would be amazed at how

much legal work and money can be required to un-do damage (if it can be

undone) caused by writing and executing legal forms without consulting a

knowledgeable attorney. Most people involved in these situations would

gladly go back and pay the $50 to $200 to have the document actually do

what they intended it to in the first place.

Peggy

Jolene Ehret wrote:

> Unless I win the lottery I am surely not going to worry about

> inheritance tax.. I am so far removed from that possibility

> that it doesn't even enter into my mind. If I do win the lottery, I

> would divide up the funds anyway amoung the kids and I.

> Then they can spend however they want AND pay the taxes on their share.

> Mine I would probably spend so fast wouldn't be anything left when I

> died anyway, so still wouldn't worry about inheritance tax. That is for

> RICH People... LOL JOlene

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not true in PA....if the decedent had use of and power over the account

before death, it is 100% inheritance taxable regardless of any " payable

upon death " designation. Same is true of any " In trust for " account.

I guess my point is, it is important to discuss individual circumstances

and needs with an attorney who knows your state's laws and can help you

accomplish what you wish to with regard to your assets.

Peggy

m_womack@... wrote:

> For those that might be concerned about Inheritance Tax, in some

> states there is something called Payable of Death (POD) which means

> that the account goes to the designated person or charity and does not

> require probate, etc. It is also private and no one needs to know but

> the owner and recipients - unlike a will which is public.

>

> " A Payable on Death Account can be a

> bank account, a brokerage account,* an

> IRA, a pension, or any other account that

> allows you to name a beneficiary. It

> designates the recipient of the account at

> your death. "

>

> I really believe whether large accounts or small, it saves some hassle

> at time of death.

>

> MA

>

[Guest guest]

Not true in PA....if the decedent had use of and power over the account

before death, it is 100% inheritance taxable regardless of any " payable

upon death " designation. Same is true of any " In trust for " account.

I guess my point is, it is important to discuss individual circumstances

and needs with an attorney who knows your state's laws and can help you

accomplish what you wish to with regard to your assets.

Peggy

m_womack@... wrote:

> For those that might be concerned about Inheritance Tax, in some

> states there is something called Payable of Death (POD) which means

> that the account goes to the designated person or charity and does not

> require probate, etc. It is also private and no one needs to know but

> the owner and recipients - unlike a will which is public.

>

> " A Payable on Death Account can be a

> bank account, a brokerage account,* an

> IRA, a pension, or any other account that

> allows you to name a beneficiary. It

> designates the recipient of the account at

> your death. "

>

> I really believe whether large accounts or small, it saves some hassle

> at time of death.

>

> MA

>

[Guest guest]

peggy you must be a lawyer and I have found that I am able to do simple

things myself like file a motion pro se, file a caveat and other simple

things including a summary administration.

I filed my own non-contested divorce papers for which an attorney wanted

3,000 5 years ago. Something this simple does not need any attorney.

Nonnie

Re: POA and Bank Accounts - a cautionary

note

Jolene - It was not the inheritance tax I was cautioning about but the

fact that assets intended for all one's kids could end up belonging to

just the one kid added to the bank account.

In addition, in PA, if your assets exceed your liabilities, no matter

how small, they are subject to PA's inheritance tax which ranges from

4.5 % to 15% depending on the relationship between the decedent and any

beneficiaries. You don't have to be rich in PA, only solvent, to have

your estate be subject to inheritance tax.

As for the cost, POA's prepared by an attorney cost around $50-$75

depending on the complexity. I just love how non-lawyers are quick to

declare legal fees a complete " waste of money " and advise people to get

their legal documents off the Internet or at an office supply store.

People who would never advise someone to be their own doctor, dentist or

automobile mechanic have no hesitation to advise them to be their own

lawyer. (You know what they say about any lawyer that represents

himself.....he has a fool for a client!) You would be amazed at how

much legal work and money can be required to un-do damage (if it can be

undone) caused by writing and executing legal forms without consulting a

knowledgeable attorney. Most people involved in these situations would

gladly go back and pay the $50 to $200 to have the document actually do

what they intended it to in the first place.

Peggy

Jolene Ehret wrote:

> Unless I win the lottery I am surely not going to worry about

> inheritance tax.. I am so far removed from that possibility

> that it doesn't even enter into my mind. If I do win the lottery, I

> would divide up the funds anyway amoung the kids and I.

> Then they can spend however they want AND pay the taxes on their share.

> Mine I would probably spend so fast wouldn't be anything left when I

> died anyway, so still wouldn't worry about inheritance tax. That is for

> RICH People... LOL JOlene

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wholely agree. There's another aspect of the second

account holder most don't think about, but if that kid

you put on your account decided to do something

foolish like write out a check for a new sports car,

etc. there is nothing you can do about it. Also, when

they apply for a college loan, all the money in your

accounts is counted as theirs also and they will

usually be ineligible for assistance because of it.

Like Peggy points out, and so have I, EVERY STATE has

different laws and situations are different. You have

to make sure you know what the rules are where you

live and in your situation. Personally, I use a

combination of an attorney and my CPA who is also very

current on financial matters and how an investment

will affect you tax wise, etc.

--- " Peggy C. Durant " pdurant@...> wrote:

> Not true in PA....if the decedent had use of and

> power over the account

> before death, it is 100% inheritance taxable

> regardless of any " payable

> upon death " designation. Same is true of any " In

> trust for " account.

>

> I guess my point is, it is important to discuss

> individual circumstances

> and needs with an attorney who knows your state's

> laws and can help you

> accomplish what you wish to with regard to your

> assets.

>

> Peggy

>

>

>

> m_womack@... wrote:

>

> > For those that might be concerned about

> Inheritance Tax, in some

> > states there is something called Payable of Death

> (POD) which means

> > that the account goes to the designated person or

> charity and does not

> > require probate, etc. It is also private and no

> one needs to know but

> > the owner and recipients - unlike a will which is

> public.

> >

> > " A Payable on Death Account can be a

> > bank account, a brokerage account,* an

> > IRA, a pension, or any other account that

> > allows you to name a beneficiary. It

> > designates the recipient of the account at

> > your death. "

> >

> > I really believe whether large accounts or small,

> it saves some hassle

> > at time of death.

> >

> > MA

> >

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I wholely agree. There's another aspect of the second

account holder most don't think about, but if that kid

you put on your account decided to do something

foolish like write out a check for a new sports car,

etc. there is nothing you can do about it. Also, when

they apply for a college loan, all the money in your

accounts is counted as theirs also and they will

usually be ineligible for assistance because of it.

Like Peggy points out, and so have I, EVERY STATE has

different laws and situations are different. You have

to make sure you know what the rules are where you

live and in your situation. Personally, I use a

combination of an attorney and my CPA who is also very

current on financial matters and how an investment

will affect you tax wise, etc.

--- " Peggy C. Durant " pdurant@...> wrote:

> Not true in PA....if the decedent had use of and

> power over the account

> before death, it is 100% inheritance taxable

> regardless of any " payable

> upon death " designation. Same is true of any " In

> trust for " account.

>

> I guess my point is, it is important to discuss

> individual circumstances

> and needs with an attorney who knows your state's

> laws and can help you

> accomplish what you wish to with regard to your

> assets.

>

> Peggy

>

>

>

> m_womack@... wrote:

>

> > For those that might be concerned about

> Inheritance Tax, in some

> > states there is something called Payable of Death

> (POD) which means

> > that the account goes to the designated person or

> charity and does not

> > require probate, etc. It is also private and no

> one needs to know but

> > the owner and recipients - unlike a will which is

> public.

> >

> > " A Payable on Death Account can be a

> > bank account, a brokerage account,* an

> > IRA, a pension, or any other account that

> > allows you to name a beneficiary. It

> > designates the recipient of the account at

> > your death. "

> >

> > I really believe whether large accounts or small,

> it saves some hassle

> > at time of death.

> >

> > MA

> >

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

No, I am not an attorney but I am married to one and I've worked as his

the office manager for the last 27 years and I work extensively with

estates. I've seen the results of self-representation too often to feel

comfortable in advising anyone to do it. Of course, we see the messes,

not the things that went well - or the things that have problems which

haven't yet been discovered. There are so many things that can trip up

a lay person.

You seem happy with your self-representation. I hope you won't have

problems from being your own attorney.

Peggy

..

Nonnie wrote:

> peggy you must be a lawyer and I have found that I am able to do simple

> things myself like file a motion pro se, file a caveat and other simple

> things including a summary administration.

>

> I filed my own non-contested divorce papers for which an attorney wanted

> 3,000 5 years ago. Something this simple does not need any attorney.

>

> Nonnie

>

>

[Guest guest]

No, I am not an attorney but I am married to one and I've worked as his

the office manager for the last 27 years and I work extensively with

estates. I've seen the results of self-representation too often to feel

comfortable in advising anyone to do it. Of course, we see the messes,

not the things that went well - or the things that have problems which

haven't yet been discovered. There are so many things that can trip up

a lay person.

You seem happy with your self-representation. I hope you won't have

problems from being your own attorney.

Peggy

..

Nonnie wrote:

> peggy you must be a lawyer and I have found that I am able to do simple

> things myself like file a motion pro se, file a caveat and other simple

> things including a summary administration.

>

> I filed my own non-contested divorce papers for which an attorney wanted

> 3,000 5 years ago. Something this simple does not need any attorney.

>

> Nonnie

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well I don't have to worry... None of my kids want my stuff, thinking

of having a great garage sale and letting it all go cheap.

When I die the house goes to CenTex since they made sure it was an

unassumable loan. Then they can go out and

build a $150,000 home on Extreme Makeover for someone who is poorer than

I am. So much for debt reduction loans.

They got a good $5,000 off the top plus I have to pay them back for it

all.. What a screw over I got from them. I can imagine

what DiTech would have done to me. LOL. Now if I could have afforded a

lawyer he would have screwed me over instead

of the mortgage company. None of these people are out to help anyone but

themselves. Jolene

Nonnie wrote:

> peggy you must be a lawyer and I have found that I am able to do simple

> things myself like file a motion pro se, file a caveat and other simple

> things including a summary administration.

>

> I filed my own non-contested divorce papers for which an attorney wanted

> 3,000 5 years ago. Something this simple does not need any attorney.

>

> Nonnie

>

> Re: POA and Bank Accounts - a cautionary

> note

>

>

> Jolene - It was not the inheritance tax I was cautioning about but the

> fact that assets intended for all one's kids could end up belonging to

> just the one kid added to the bank account.

>

> In addition, in PA, if your assets exceed your liabilities, no matter

> how small, they are subject to PA's inheritance tax which ranges from

> 4.5 % to 15% depending on the relationship between the decedent and any

> beneficiaries. You don't have to be rich in PA, only solvent, to have

> your estate be subject to inheritance tax.

>

> As for the cost, POA's prepared by an attorney cost around $50-$75

> depending on the complexity. I just love how non-lawyers are quick to

> declare legal fees a complete " waste of money " and advise people to get

> their legal documents off the Internet or at an office supply store.

> People who would never advise someone to be their own doctor, dentist or

> automobile mechanic have no hesitation to advise them to be their own

> lawyer. (You know what they say about any lawyer that represents

> himself.....he has a fool for a client!) You would be amazed at how

> much legal work and money can be required to un-do damage (if it can be

> undone) caused by writing and executing legal forms without consulting a

> knowledgeable attorney. Most people involved in these situations would

> gladly go back and pay the $50 to $200 to have the document actually do

> what they intended it to in the first place.

>

> Peggy

>

>

>

>

> Jolene Ehret wrote:

>

> > Unless I win the lottery I am surely not going to worry about

> > inheritance tax.. I am so far removed from that possibility

> > that it doesn't even enter into my mind. If I do win the lottery, I

> > would divide up the funds anyway amoung the kids and I.

> > Then they can spend however they want AND pay the taxes on their share.

> > Mine I would probably spend so fast wouldn't be anything left when I

> > died anyway, so still wouldn't worry about inheritance tax. That is for

> > RICH People... LOL JOlene

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Peggy, I have a question. I'm in Pa. My mom and sister both with cancer have

a bank account in both their names and also mom gave my sister POA. Do you mean

if one of them dies, the other would have to pay inheritnece tax on the entire

amount in their bank account? Even if both names are on the account? It is funds

they share and both add to and it's no fortune, just a little extra they dont

want to keep in their home. They both live on SS, and live on a thread. Also

their trailer is in both their names, is that the same? It would be horrible to

think one will be slammed with taxes on something that is theirs. Thanks ~Dianna

" Peggy C. Durant " pdurant@...> wrote:It is important to understand

that putting a name on your bank account

(at least in PA) makes that person a co-owner of the account. My

husband is an attorney and I fill out a lot of estate inheritance tax

returns. We have run into this misconception many times where the person

who adds a child or relative to the account did it only for convenience,

never understanding that the account then belongs equally to themselves

and the person whose name was added.. In PA if the name is added

within one year of the date of death, the entire amount is inheritance

taxable as part of the estate (estate pays the taxes) but the co-owner

gets all the funds.

We have found that many times bank personnel (who may not understand the

complete ramifications themselves) encourage people to put one child's

name on the account in order to help mom or dad pay the bills but never

inform the person that doing so makes that particular child an owner.

When mom or dad passes away, that child owns whatever is left in the

account and it does not pass through the estate for distribution to the

other heirs, if any. There are so many families where the expectation

of the kids is they will share equally because the will states that all

the assets should be divided equally between the children. It gets

really hairy when they find out that the checking or savings account

with the bulk of the funds in it belongs to one sibling. It is possible

that the co-owner will share the funds with the rest of the family

(especially if mom or dad made that clear that is their intention), but

there is no way to make them (no matter what verbal promises were made)

if they don't want to.

A POA will accomplish the same thing (allow another to write the checks

to pay the bills) and more (the POA holder may conduct business, sell or

buy on behalf of the POA grantor, etc...) and doesn't make the person

co-owner of the account or other assets. In addition, the POA usually

states that the holder is bound to act for the good of and on behalf of

the grantor. A co-owner of a bank account has no such obligation. It

is also important to make it a Durable POA so that it does not cease to

be in force when the grantor becomes incapable of making their own

decisions.

Sorry to be so long-winded on this but we just ran into this issue last

night again with another family. Do some research as to the rules in

your state and with your bank(s) before putting someone else's name on

your accounts.

Peggy

>

[Guest guest]

I am sure some situations bear some thought, but since my kids are not

in that situation.

I would laugh if they would try to buy a fancy sports car with what I

have in my account

LOL.. I just got my SS check on Wed and I am already broke and waiting

for Sept payday.

Believe me they aren't going to get anything with money I don't have. LOL..

Jolene

mary hilbrand wrote:

> I wholely agree. There's another aspect of the second

> account holder most don't think about, but if that kid

> you put on your account decided to do something

> foolish like write out a check for a new sports car,

> etc. there is nothing you can do about it. Also, when

> they apply for a college loan, all the money in your

> accounts is counted as theirs also and they will

> usually be ineligible for assistance because of it.

>

> Like Peggy points out, and so have I, EVERY STATE has

> different laws and situations are different. You have

> to make sure you know what the rules are where you

> live and in your situation. Personally, I use a

> combination of an attorney and my CPA who is also very

> current on financial matters and how an investment

> will affect you tax wise, etc.

>

>

>

> --- " Peggy C. Durant " pdurant@...> wrote:

>

> > Not true in PA....if the decedent had use of and

> > power over the account

> > before death, it is 100% inheritance taxable

> > regardless of any " payable

> > upon death " designation. Same is true of any " In

> > trust for " account.

> >

> > I guess my point is, it is important to discuss

> > individual circumstances

> > and needs with an attorney who knows your state's

> > laws and can help you

> > accomplish what you wish to with regard to your

> > assets.

> >

> > Peggy

> >

> >

> >

> > m_womack@... wrote:

> >

> > > For those that might be concerned about

> > Inheritance Tax, in some

> > > states there is something called Payable of Death

> > (POD) which means

> > > that the account goes to the designated person or

> > charity and does not

> > > require probate, etc. It is also private and no

> > one needs to know but

> > > the owner and recipients - unlike a will which is

> > public.

> > >

> > > " A Payable on Death Account can be a

> > > bank account, a brokerage account,* an

> > > IRA, a pension, or any other account that

> > > allows you to name a beneficiary. It

> > > designates the recipient of the account at

> > > your death. "

> > >

> > > I really believe whether large accounts or small,

> > it saves some hassle

> > > at time of death.

> > >

> > > MA

> > >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

You kind of lost me here. Would the survivor (out of my mom and sister) have to

sell the trailer to pay the other's unpaid doctor and medical bills, since it's

in both their names? ~Dianna

" Peggy C. Durant " pdurant@...> wrote:Oh, one other thing....the

surviving co-owner of an account is under no

obligation to use the funds from the account to pay bills of the decedent.

As for not being able to pay bills after death with a POA, that is

true. However, as soon as an estate is opened and a personal

representative or executor is named, the assets are available and used

to pay all post-death liabilities before distributing the rest, residue

and remainder to the heirs. Generally, once death has occurred, there

is no immediate need to pay bills and an estate is often opened within a

few days to a week - meaning the lapse in bill-paying ability is very

short.

Peggy

Peggy C. Durant wrote:

> It is important to understand that putting a name on your bank account

> (at least in PA) makes that person a co-owner of the account. My

> husband is an attorney and I fill out a lot of estate inheritance tax

> returns. We have run into this misconception many times where the person

> who adds a child or relative to the account did it only for convenience,

> never understanding that the account then belongs equally to themselves

> and the person whose name was added.. In PA if the name is added

> within one year of the date of death, the entire amount is inheritance

> taxable as part of the estate (estate pays the taxes) but the co-owner

> gets all the funds.

>

> We have found that many times bank personnel (who may not understand the

> complete ramifications themselves) encourage people to put one child's

> name on the account in order to help mom or dad pay the bills but never

> inform the person that doing so makes that particular child an owner.

> When mom or dad passes away, that child owns whatever is left in the

> account and it does not pass through the estate for distribution to the

> other heirs, if any. There are so many families where the expectation

> of the kids is they will share equally because the will states that all

> the assets should be divided equally between the children. It gets

> really hairy when they find out that the checking or savings account

> with the bulk of the funds in it belongs to one sibling. It is possible

> that the co-owner will share the funds with the rest of the family

> (especially if mom or dad made that clear that is their intention), but

> there is no way to make them (no matter what verbal promises were made)

> if they don't want to.

>

> A POA will accomplish the same thing (allow another to write the checks

> to pay the bills) and more (the POA holder may conduct business, sell or

> buy on behalf of the POA grantor, etc...) and doesn't make the person

> co-owner of the account or other assets. In addition, the POA usually

> states that the holder is bound to act for the good of and on behalf of

> the grantor. A co-owner of a bank account has no such obligation. It

> is also important to make it a Durable POA so that it does not cease to

> be in force when the grantor becomes incapable of making their own

> decisions.

>

> Sorry to be so long-winded on this but we just ran into this issue last

> night again with another family. Do some research as to the rules in

> your state and with your bank(s) before putting someone else's name on

> your accounts.

>

> Peggy

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dianna - In PA, on a joint bank account, inheritance tax is paid only on

the portion of the account belonging to the decedent. In the case of

your mom and sister, assuming theirs are the only two names on the

account, the survivor would own the entire balance existing on the date

of death but only 50% of that would be subject to inheritance tax

(unless the account was made joint within 1 year of the date of death,

in which case, the tax would be on 100% of the balance on the date of

death. That rule was put into effect to prevent people from

transferring their assets " in contemplation of death " and thereby

signing everything over a few days, weeks or months before death to

avoid taxes.) Taxes on jointly owned property are the same - 50%

taxable except when it becomes jointly owned within one year of death.

However, in cases of transfers within one year of death, the first

$3,000 is excluded from taxation - then 100% of the balance is taxable.

In addition, taxes are only due on the estate to the extent the assets

exceed the liabilities. Debts, funeral bills, costs of probate,

etc....would all be deducted before taxes. In your mom and sister's

case, it is quite possible that whatever assets exist would be " wiped

out " and no tax would be due. But you have the concept right -

supposing your mom and sister opened a joint account using all your

mom's money....let's say $10,000 and your sister suddenly and

unexpectedly died within 1 year of opening the account. Your mom would

have to pay inheritance tax on 100% of the money (minus the $3,000

exclusion), even though it was all hers to begin with. The lineal

(meaning parents to children and vice versa) tax rate is 4.5%.

Peggy

Dianna Brendle wrote:

> Hi Peggy, I have a question. I'm in Pa. My mom and sister both with

> cancer have a bank account in both their names and also mom gave my

> sister POA. Do you mean if one of them dies, the other would have to

> pay inheritnece tax on the entire amount in their bank account? Even

> if both names are on the account? It is funds they share and both add

> to and it's no fortune, just a little extra they dont want to keep in

> their home. They both live on SS, and live on a thread. Also their

> trailer is in both their names, is that the same? It would be horrible

> to think one will be slammed with taxes on something that is theirs.

> Thanks ~Dianna

>

> "

[Guest guest]

Also in the state I live, being an authorized signature is not the same as being

on the account. I am an authorized signture on my Aunt's account but I have no

ownership of it. As far as ownership, the way it is listed makes a difference.

MA and M XYZ is totally different than MA or M XYZ. In the first instance if

one dies, the account is tied up with the estate. The second way is business as

usual and I would automatically own the account.

Also, I had talked with the bank about my Aunt putting whoever she wanted to

give the checking account money to on the account and not tell them (they live a

long way away). The bank told me if she did that, the account would be counted

as as asset in all of his dealings (lawsuits, student loans, etc).

MA

Re: POA and Bank Accounts - a cautionary note

I wholely agree. There's another aspect of the second

account holder most don't think about, but if that kid

you put on your account decided to do something

foolish like write out a check for a new sports car,

etc. there is nothing you can do about it. Also, when

they apply for a college loan, all the money in your

accounts is counted as theirs also and they will

usually be ineligible for assistance because of it.

Like Peggy points out, and so have I, EVERY STATE has

different laws and situations are different. You have

to make sure you know what the rules are where you

live and in your situation. Personally, I use a

combination of an attorney and my CPA who is also very

current on financial matters and how an investment

will affect you tax wise, etc.

--- " Peggy C. Durant " pdurant@...> wrote:

> Not true in PA....if the decedent had use of and

> power over the account

> before death, it is 100% inheritance taxable

> regardless of any " payable

> upon death " designation. Same is true of any " In

> trust for " account.

>

> I guess my point is, it is important to discuss

> individual circumstances

> and needs with an attorney who knows your state's

> laws and can help you

> accomplish what you wish to with regard to your

> assets.

>

> Peggy

>

>

>

> m_womack@... wrote:

>

> > For those that might be concerned about

> Inheritance Tax, in some

> > states there is something called Payable of Death

> (POD) which means

> > that the account goes to the designated person or

> charity and does not

> > require probate, etc. It is also private and no

> one needs to know but

> > the owner and recipients - unlike a will which is

> public.

> >

> > " A Payable on Death Account can be a

> > bank account, a brokerage account,* an

> > IRA, a pension, or any other account that

> > allows you to name a beneficiary. It

> > designates the recipient of the account at

> > your death. "

> >

> > I really believe whether large accounts or small,

> it saves some hassle

> > at time of death.

> >

> > MA

> >

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

1/2 of the value of the trailer would be vulnerable to the debts

incurred by the one who is deceased first. I don't think a creditor can

force the sale of a trailer (unlike real estate) but 1/2 the value could

be subject to judgments or liens placed due to debts of the first

decedent if the creditor's feel it is worth the trouble to place them.

Bear in mind, I'm not an attorney....so please consider consulting one

about your specific situation. Most attorneys do pro-bono work and the

bar association in your county can help you if you can't afford legal

counsel. In addition, the state of PA has a fund to provide legal

services to those that can't afford them.

Peggy

Dianna Brendle wrote:

> You kind of lost me here. Would the survivor (out of my mom and

> sister) have to sell the trailer to pay the other's unpaid doctor and

> medical bills, since it's in both their names? ~Dianna

>

>

[Guest guest]

1/2 of the value of the trailer would be vulnerable to the debts

incurred by the one who is deceased first. I don't think a creditor can

force the sale of a trailer (unlike real estate) but 1/2 the value could

be subject to judgments or liens placed due to debts of the first

decedent if the creditor's feel it is worth the trouble to place them.

Bear in mind, I'm not an attorney....so please consider consulting one

about your specific situation. Most attorneys do pro-bono work and the

bar association in your county can help you if you can't afford legal

counsel. In addition, the state of PA has a fund to provide legal

services to those that can't afford them.

Peggy

Dianna Brendle wrote:

> You kind of lost me here. Would the survivor (out of my mom and

> sister) have to sell the trailer to pay the other's unpaid doctor and

> medical bills, since it's in both their names? ~Dianna

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much, I suppose all this applies to husband and wife too? Cant

believe would have to pay inheritence tax on our money, most earned by

him. How stupid! No wonder people hide their money! None of us has much, that

makes it even worse, they take what little you manage to save. Anyway thanks

alot. ~~Dianna

" Peggy C. Durant " pdurant@...> wrote:Dianna - In PA, on a joint bank

account, inheritance tax is paid only on

the portion of the account belonging to the decedent. In the case of

your mom and sister, assuming theirs are the only two names on the

account, the survivor would own the entire balance existing on the date

of death but only 50% of that would be subject to inheritance tax

(unless the account was made joint within 1 year of the date of death,

in which case, the tax would be on 100% of the balance on the date of

death. That rule was put into effect to prevent people from

transferring their assets " in contemplation of death " and thereby

signing everything over a few days, weeks or months before death to

avoid taxes.) Taxes on jointly owned property are the same - 50%

taxable except when it becomes jointly owned within one year of death.

However, in cases of transfers within one year of death, the first

$3,000 is excluded from taxation - then 100% of the balance is taxable.

In addition, taxes are only due on the estate to the extent the assets

exceed the liabilities. Debts, funeral bills, costs of probate,

etc....would all be deducted before taxes. In your mom and sister's

case, it is quite possible that whatever assets exist would be " wiped

out " and no tax would be due. But you have the concept right -

supposing your mom and sister opened a joint account using all your

mom's money....let's say $10,000 and your sister suddenly and

unexpectedly died within 1 year of opening the account. Your mom would

have to pay inheritance tax on 100% of the money (minus the $3,000

exclusion), even though it was all hers to begin with. The lineal

(meaning parents to children and vice versa) tax rate is 4.5%.

Peggy

Dianna Brendle wrote:

> Hi Peggy, I have a question. I'm in Pa. My mom and sister both with

> cancer have a bank account in both their names and also mom gave my

> sister POA. Do you mean if one of them dies, the other would have to

> pay inheritnece tax on the entire amount in their bank account? Even

> if both names are on the account? It is funds they share and both add

> to and it's no fortune, just a little extra they dont want to keep in

> their home. They both live on SS, and live on a thread. Also their

> trailer is in both their names, is that the same? It would be horrible

> to think one will be slammed with taxes on something that is theirs.

> Thanks ~Dianna

>

> "

[Guest guest]

Well sure glad I live in Texas. Inheritance taxes only apply to estates

in the high dollar amounts. I forget what it is

but is over $150,000 or so. We didn't have to pay anything on the

assets that were in my husband's estate, didn't come anywhere

near that amount. Also they told me that for small estates, just as

well not to have a will cause it costs more to process a will

that if they don't have one. Richie did have a will but in Texas, being

community property state it all goes to me anyway,

if there is anything when I die it goes to my kids. But won't be much

but bills and I don't know yet how we will get around

that. Don't want kids stuck with my bills. I am hoping to live long

enough to pay off the blasted loan and then maybe can

sell the house and get rid of my credit card bills. But will just have

to see how it goes. And so it goes. Jolene

Peggy C. Durant wrote:

> 1/2 of the value of the trailer would be vulnerable to the debts

> incurred by the one who is deceased first. I don't think a creditor can

> force the sale of a trailer (unlike real estate) but 1/2 the value could

> be subject to judgments or liens placed due to debts of the first

> decedent if the creditor's feel it is worth the trouble to place them.

>

> Bear in mind, I'm not an attorney....so please consider consulting one

> about your specific situation. Most attorneys do pro-bono work and the

> bar association in your county can help you if you can't afford legal

> counsel. In addition, the state of PA has a fund to provide legal

> services to those that can't afford them.

>

> Peggy

>

>

> Dianna Brendle wrote:

>

> > You kind of lost me here. Would the survivor (out of my mom and

> > sister) have to sell the trailer to pay the other's unpaid doctor and

> > medical bills, since it's in both their names? ~Dianna

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok, thanks again.

" Peggy C. Durant " pdurant@...> wrote: 1/2 of the value of the

trailer would be vulnerable to the debts

incurred by the one who is deceased first. I don't think a creditor can

force the sale of a trailer (unlike real estate) but 1/2 the value could

be subject to judgments or liens placed due to debts of the first

decedent if the creditor's feel it is worth the trouble to place them.

Bear in mind, I'm not an attorney....so please consider consulting one

about your specific situation. Most attorneys do pro-bono work and the

bar association in your county can help you if you can't afford legal

counsel. In addition, the state of PA has a fund to provide legal

services to those that can't afford them.

Peggy

Dianna Brendle wrote:

> You kind of lost me here. Would the survivor (out of my mom and

> sister) have to sell the trailer to pay the other's unpaid doctor and

> medical bills, since it's in both their names? ~Dianna

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok, thanks again.

" Peggy C. Durant " pdurant@...> wrote: 1/2 of the value of the

trailer would be vulnerable to the debts

incurred by the one who is deceased first. I don't think a creditor can

force the sale of a trailer (unlike real estate) but 1/2 the value could

be subject to judgments or liens placed due to debts of the first

decedent if the creditor's feel it is worth the trouble to place them.

Bear in mind, I'm not an attorney....so please consider consulting one

about your specific situation. Most attorneys do pro-bono work and the

bar association in your county can help you if you can't afford legal

counsel. In addition, the state of PA has a fund to provide legal

services to those that can't afford them.

Peggy

Dianna Brendle wrote:

> You kind of lost me here. Would the survivor (out of my mom and

> sister) have to sell the trailer to pay the other's unpaid doctor and

> medical bills, since it's in both their names? ~Dianna

>

>

[Guest guest]

Although it used to be different, in PA there is now a 0% tax rate on

jointly owned assets or assets inherited from a husband or wife....so

you're safe there. Some good news for a change..... ;-)

You're welcome.

Peggy

Dianna Brendle wrote:

> Thank you very much, I suppose all this applies to husband and wife

> too? Cant believe would have to pay inheritence tax on our

> money, most earned by him. How stupid! No wonder people hide their

> money! None of us has much, that makes it even worse, they take what

> little you manage to save. Anyway thanks alot. ~~Dianna

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jolene - Yes, every state is different. In PA, without a will, the

first $30,000 goes to the husband or wife, then the balance is split

between the spouse and the kids. Lots of people don't know that and are

surprised that the spouse doesn't get everything.

Another funny thing in PA, even if a husband or wife decides to write

their spouse out of their will, the surviving spouse can " elect against

the will " and get the same deal as if there was no will. (first $30,000

and 1/2 of the rest).

Peggy

Jolene Ehret wrote:

> Well sure glad I live in Texas. Inheritance taxes only apply to estates

> in the high dollar amounts. I forget what it is

> but is over $150,000 or so. We didn't have to pay anything on the

> assets that were in my husband's estate, didn't come anywhere

> near that amount. Also they told me that for small estates, just as

> well not to have a will cause it costs more to process a will

> that if they don't have one. Richie did have a will but in Texas, being

> community property state it all goes to me anyway,

> if there is anything when I die it goes to my kids. But won't be much

> but bills and I don't know yet how we will get around

> that. Don't want kids stuck with my bills. I am hoping to live long

> enough to pay off the blasted loan and then maybe can

> sell the house and get rid of my credit card bills. But will just have

> to see how it goes. And so it goes. Jolene

>

>

[Guest guest]

Pennsylvania has a tax for every thing you can think of and things you can't.

Seriously. There's a tax for if you're alive, there's a tax for working, that's

in addition to payroll taxes, it's a yearly tax, small but ridiculous. ~Dianna

Jolene Ehret jehret@...> wrote: Well sure glad I live in Texas.

Inheritance taxes only apply to estates

in the high dollar amounts. I forget what it is

but is over $150,000 or so. We didn't have to pay anything on the

assets that were in my husband's estate, didn't come anywhere

near that amount. Also they told me that for small estates, just as

well not to have a will cause it costs more to process a will

that if they don't have one. Richie did have a will but in Texas, being

community property state it all goes to me anyway,

if there is anything when I die it goes to my kids. But won't be much

but bills and I don't know yet how we will get around

that. Don't want kids stuck with my bills. I am hoping to live long

enough to pay off the blasted loan and then maybe can

sell the house and get rid of my credit card bills. But will just have

to see how it goes. And so it goes. Jolene

Peggy C. Durant wrote:

> 1/2 of the value of the trailer would be vulnerable to the debts

> incurred by the one who is deceased first. I don't think a creditor can

> force the sale of a trailer (unlike real estate) but 1/2 the value could

> be subject to judgments or liens placed due to debts of the first

> decedent if the creditor's feel it is worth the trouble to place them.

>

> Bear in mind, I'm not an attorney....so please consider consulting one

> about your specific situation. Most attorneys do pro-bono work and the

> bar association in your county can help you if you can't afford legal

> counsel. In addition, the state of PA has a fund to provide legal

> services to those that can't afford them.

>

> Peggy

>

>

> Dianna Brendle wrote:

>

> > You kind of lost me here. Would the survivor (out of my mom and

> > sister) have to sell the trailer to pay the other's unpaid doctor and

> > medical bills, since it's in both their names? ~Dianna

> >

> >

>

>

>