Re: Questions on vitamin supplements

[Guest guest]

you're headed fo trouble the way u are going.

> I recently had some tests done for my son, that has left me with

some

> questions that I thought this group might be able to help me with.

>

> My son recently had a spectracell blood test for a nutrient profile

> and an IGG test.

>

> The spectracell showed reasonably good results from what I

> understand. The low ones were: B2, B12, Choline, Magnesium,

> Glutathione and total antixodants. The rest were normal, including

> B6 & cysteine. (although his OAT showed him to be C defficient and

we

> are supplementing that already)

>

> Given there was no B6 defficiency, would the high dosing of B6 as

> suggested for autism be appropriate? Are the kids that are

responding

> to B6, already low - or do they just need more? (or are they GFCF &

> needing it? or maybe just not absorbing the nutrients well & need

> more?)

>

> It was suggested that I supplement N-acetyl-cysteine to help with

the

> glutathione levels. But if his cysteine level is normal, does that

> make sense? Or do I need the plasma amino acid test to really

> identify his cysteine level? (I am getting all these tests mixed

up).

> I also read that B2 helps regenerate glutathione, maybe it's the B2

> that he really needs. His glutathione level was borderline, almost

> normal. We are already supplementing with l-glutathione supps, but

my

> reading indicates that it is probably not well absorbed by the gut

> anyway.

>

> BTW, I have the kirkmans SNT (not sure I need that if mega doses of

> B6 aren't needed), but if anyone is using the powder - how do you

get

> that to mix into their beverages? I just get a gloppy mess, even

when

> shaken.

>

> Onto the IGG question. That looked reasonably good too. No gluten

or

> casein sensitivites. (no urinary peptides in the OAT either).

But...

> we had a high reaction to pears, moderate reaction to corn, mild

> reaction to cow's milk, grapefruit & tomatoes. Do the enzymes help

> with IGG reactions? If so, which would be appropriate for these

> reactions? I assume it would be pep for the milk, but I am not sure

> about the others. We aren't using enzymes yet, and I am not sure

that

> we needed to based upon the nutrient and sensitivity profiles. But

I

> figure a trial run wouldn't hurt, might help. (overall - we have no

> GI problems, no gut bugs, no yeast)

>

> Sorry to write such a book, but I would appreciate any input or

> insights.

>

> Thank you, Cheryl

[Guest guest]

, how are we headed for trouble? Inquiring minds want to

know.

So far I am taking the slow road. The only supplements in place are

vitamin C, L-glutathione, pro-biotics and 1 tsp of SNT.

I'm looking for advice so that we don't get into trouble.

> > I recently had some tests done for my son, that has left me with

> some

> > questions that I thought this group might be able to help me

with.

> >

> > My son recently had a spectracell blood test for a nutrient

profile

> > and an IGG test.

> >

> > The spectracell showed reasonably good results from what I

> > understand. The low ones were: B2, B12, Choline, Magnesium,

> > Glutathione and total antixodants. The rest were normal,

including

> > B6 & cysteine. (although his OAT showed him to be C defficient

and

> we

> > are supplementing that already)

> >

> > Given there was no B6 defficiency, would the high dosing of B6

as

> > suggested for autism be appropriate? Are the kids that are

> responding

> > to B6, already low - or do they just need more? (or are they

GFCF &

> > needing it? or maybe just not absorbing the nutrients well &

need

> > more?)

> >

> > It was suggested that I supplement N-acetyl-cysteine to help

with

> the

> > glutathione levels. But if his cysteine level is normal, does

that

> > make sense? Or do I need the plasma amino acid test to really

> > identify his cysteine level? (I am getting all these tests mixed

> up).

> > I also read that B2 helps regenerate glutathione, maybe it's the

B2

> > that he really needs. His glutathione level was borderline,

almost

> > normal. We are already supplementing with l-glutathione supps,

but

> my

> > reading indicates that it is probably not well absorbed by the

gut

> > anyway.

> >

> > BTW, I have the kirkmans SNT (not sure I need that if mega doses

of

> > B6 aren't needed), but if anyone is using the powder - how do

you

> get

> > that to mix into their beverages? I just get a gloppy mess, even

> when

> > shaken.

> >

> > Onto the IGG question. That looked reasonably good too. No

gluten

> or

> > casein sensitivites. (no urinary peptides in the OAT either).

> But...

> > we had a high reaction to pears, moderate reaction to corn, mild

> > reaction to cow's milk, grapefruit & tomatoes. Do the enzymes

help

> > with IGG reactions? If so, which would be appropriate for these

> > reactions? I assume it would be pep for the milk, but I am not

sure

> > about the others. We aren't using enzymes yet, and I am not sure

> that

> > we needed to based upon the nutrient and sensitivity profiles.

But

> I

> > figure a trial run wouldn't hurt, might help. (overall - we have

no

> > GI problems, no gut bugs, no yeast)

> >

> > Sorry to write such a book, but I would appreciate any input or

> > insights.

> >

> > Thank you, Cheryl

[Guest guest]

, how are we headed for trouble? Inquiring minds want to

know.

So far I am taking the slow road. The only supplements in place are

vitamin C, L-glutathione, pro-biotics and 1 tsp of SNT.

I'm looking for advice so that we don't get into trouble.

> > I recently had some tests done for my son, that has left me with

> some

> > questions that I thought this group might be able to help me

with.

> >

> > My son recently had a spectracell blood test for a nutrient

profile

> > and an IGG test.

> >

> > The spectracell showed reasonably good results from what I

> > understand. The low ones were: B2, B12, Choline, Magnesium,

> > Glutathione and total antixodants. The rest were normal,

including

> > B6 & cysteine. (although his OAT showed him to be C defficient

and

> we

> > are supplementing that already)

> >

> > Given there was no B6 defficiency, would the high dosing of B6

as

> > suggested for autism be appropriate? Are the kids that are

> responding

> > to B6, already low - or do they just need more? (or are they

GFCF &

> > needing it? or maybe just not absorbing the nutrients well &

need

> > more?)

> >

> > It was suggested that I supplement N-acetyl-cysteine to help

with

> the

> > glutathione levels. But if his cysteine level is normal, does

that

> > make sense? Or do I need the plasma amino acid test to really

> > identify his cysteine level? (I am getting all these tests mixed

> up).

> > I also read that B2 helps regenerate glutathione, maybe it's the

B2

> > that he really needs. His glutathione level was borderline,

almost

> > normal. We are already supplementing with l-glutathione supps,

but

> my

> > reading indicates that it is probably not well absorbed by the

gut

> > anyway.

> >

> > BTW, I have the kirkmans SNT (not sure I need that if mega doses

of

> > B6 aren't needed), but if anyone is using the powder - how do

you

> get

> > that to mix into their beverages? I just get a gloppy mess, even

> when

> > shaken.

> >

> > Onto the IGG question. That looked reasonably good too. No

gluten

> or

> > casein sensitivites. (no urinary peptides in the OAT either).

> But...

> > we had a high reaction to pears, moderate reaction to corn, mild

> > reaction to cow's milk, grapefruit & tomatoes. Do the enzymes

help

> > with IGG reactions? If so, which would be appropriate for these

> > reactions? I assume it would be pep for the milk, but I am not

sure

> > about the others. We aren't using enzymes yet, and I am not sure

> that

> > we needed to based upon the nutrient and sensitivity profiles.

But

> I

> > figure a trial run wouldn't hurt, might help. (overall - we have

no

> > GI problems, no gut bugs, no yeast)

> >

> > Sorry to write such a book, but I would appreciate any input or

> > insights.

> >

> > Thank you, Cheryl

[Guest guest]

well this is not a criticism, but traps in the road to objective

thinking...

like how much vit c, l-glutathione, what probiotics...

" Given there was no B6 defficiency, would the high dosing of B6

as suggested for autism be appropriate "

who suggests high dosing? autism isn't a thing that you can do

these 'rules' anyway... i take about 3 mg of b6 in the afternoon

along with 500 mg magnesium chelate(equiv 100mg elemental) and

sometimes depending on wether what i have eaten during the day has

much b vits in, a cut tablet of a low rda broad spectrum b vit...

this seems to boost serotonin and provide some methylation... also 10-

20 mg of vit c...

personally i steer away from amino acids or higher order compounds

like glutathione, not saying its not the right thing to do but i

prefer to put the building blocks for synthesis in place like

selenomethionine or amino acids from using enzymes...

snt is a malabsorbtion formula, if its working then that is telling

you something, hopefully you will be able to move out of that space

into something less extreme...

i'm quite bulllish on tmg as an all round basic

supplement...mehtylates, boosts the immune system...

i wouldn't assume there are no gi problems... they will be there, it

just takes a while to get tuned into what they are, working on that

will bring the big benefits...it does sound like he has a mildly

leaky gut what with possible phenol sensitivites and igg...

be a little cautious of tests, they show something but a picture of a

cloud is not a cloud if you see what i mean...

> > > I recently had some tests done for my son, that has left me

with

> > some

> > > questions that I thought this group might be able to help me

> with.

> > >

> > > My son recently had a spectracell blood test for a nutrient

> profile

> > > and an IGG test.

> > >

> > > The spectracell showed reasonably good results from what I

> > > understand. The low ones were: B2, B12, Choline, Magnesium,

> > > Glutathione and total antixodants. The rest were normal,

> including

> > > B6 & cysteine. (although his OAT showed him to be C defficient

> and

> > we

> > > are supplementing that already)

> > >

> > > Given there was no B6 defficiency, would the high dosing of B6

> as

> > > suggested for autism be appropriate? Are the kids that are

> > responding

> > > to B6, already low - or do they just need more? (or are they

> GFCF &

> > > needing it? or maybe just not absorbing the nutrients well &

> need

> > > more?)

> > >

> > > It was suggested that I supplement N-acetyl-cysteine to help

> with

> > the

> > > glutathione levels. But if his cysteine level is normal, does

> that

> > > make sense? Or do I need the plasma amino acid test to really

> > > identify his cysteine level? (I am getting all these tests

mixed

> > up).

> > > I also read that B2 helps regenerate glutathione, maybe it's

the

> B2

> > > that he really needs. His glutathione level was borderline,

> almost

> > > normal. We are already supplementing with l-glutathione supps,

> but

> > my

> > > reading indicates that it is probably not well absorbed by the

> gut

> > > anyway.

> > >

> > > BTW, I have the kirkmans SNT (not sure I need that if mega

doses

> of

> > > B6 aren't needed), but if anyone is using the powder - how do

> you

> > get

> > > that to mix into their beverages? I just get a gloppy mess,

even

> > when

> > > shaken.

> > >

> > > Onto the IGG question. That looked reasonably good too. No

> gluten

> > or

> > > casein sensitivites. (no urinary peptides in the OAT either).

> > But...

> > > we had a high reaction to pears, moderate reaction to corn,

mild

> > > reaction to cow's milk, grapefruit & tomatoes. Do the enzymes

> help

> > > with IGG reactions? If so, which would be appropriate for these

> > > reactions? I assume it would be pep for the milk, but I am not

> sure

> > > about the others. We aren't using enzymes yet, and I am not

sure

> > that

> > > we needed to based upon the nutrient and sensitivity profiles.

> But

> > I

> > > figure a trial run wouldn't hurt, might help. (overall - we

have

> no

> > > GI problems, no gut bugs, no yeast)

> > >

> > > Sorry to write such a book, but I would appreciate any input or

> > > insights.

> > >

> > > Thank you, Cheryl

[Guest guest]

, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions. If I'm out of line

here then please forgive me.

How old are you?

You are on the spectrum but have you always been? I sorta got the

impression that your spectrumism (probably not a word) was from mercury

fillings, is this the case?

How long have you been doing supplements and how long did it take you to

find the right amounts of the right ones?

Are you a scientist?

Do you have children?

Lastly, I thought I saw a website that you do, if so, could I have the

address?

Ok, thank you for taking the time to at least read this.

Sincerely, Rhonda (Olivia's mom)

[Guest guest]

i'm not entirely comfortable with personal questions because i don't

reference a sense of 'i' that well.

members.tripod.com/mueller_ranges

in saying spectrum or age or whatever i really compromise a lot of

things, like in fact there is no spectrum or age or anything but

people have a hard time seeing that.

the mueller ranges are some mountain ranges north of halls creek ,

desert really, blue and mystic but i never got to them and should.

> , I'd like to ask you a couple of questions. If I'm out of

line

> here then please forgive me.

>

> How old are you?

> You are on the spectrum but have you always been? I sorta got the

> impression that your spectrumism (probably not a word) was from

mercury

> fillings, is this the case?

> How long have you been doing supplements and how long did it take

you to

> find the right amounts of the right ones?

> Are you a scientist?

> Do you have children?

> Lastly, I thought I saw a website that you do, if so, could I have

the

> address?

> Ok, thank you for taking the time to at least read this.

> Sincerely, Rhonda (Olivia's mom)

[Guest guest]

Wow, that's the nicest way of saying " mind your own business " that I've

heard in a long time. I will check out that website. Thanks, Rhonda

[Guest guest]

Comments are selectively inserted below.

> well this is not a criticism, but traps in the road to objective

> thinking...

>

> like how much vit c, l-glutathione, what probiotics...

Working up to 1000 mg of Vitamin C, 1 glutathione cap, pro-

bitiocs (lactobacillus & bifidum)

>

> " Given there was no B6 defficiency, would the high dosing of B6

> as suggested for autism be appropriate "

>

> who suggests high dosing? autism isn't a thing that you can do

> these 'rules' anyway...

The high dosing of B6 is a recommendation that is in a lot of the

autism literature. (ARI, Rimland.... not trying to get anyone

started). I bought the SNT before I had any testing done on my son &

before I heard of enzymes. So, now I have this high B6 product.

I have been giving my son the SNT (1 tsp) for a week only, just

since I got the SpectraCell results back. His B6 level was normal. I

am trying to find out from people on this board, if anyone gives

high B6 even when the tests show it as normal and does it help? Do

these kids need the high B6 because they need more, or do they need

the high B6 because they were defficient in the first place? I am

only a week into it, and am not yet giving a high dose. Also, since

we are not GFCF that might be why we already have a good B6 level.

>

> personally i steer away from amino acids or higher order compounds

> like glutathione, not saying its not the right thing to do but i

> prefer to put the building blocks for synthesis in place like

> selenomethionine or amino acids from using enzymes...

>

I have read that oral glutathione is not well absorbed and therefor

may not be that effective. I have also read that if the child is

high cysteine, I wouldn't want to give more cysteine. His

SpectraCell test showed normal cysteine, but that was not the plasma

test - I don't know if I must wait for the plasma amino acid test in

order to figure this out. So, I am very open to finding out what the

building blocks are and trying them if they are appropriate.

Figuring out if they are appropriate is a challenge.

It sounds like you are saying that the enzymes could indirectly help

with the glutathione levels.

> snt is a malabsorbtion formula, if its working then that is

telling

> you something, hopefully you will be able to move out of that

space

> into something less extreme...

Your comment about SNT is what I am trying to determine, is this the

right thing for us to be trying. With a week into it and low levels

being given, I haven't figured out yet how much it is helping.

But... my 9yr old ds has been much more talkative and interested in

reading in the last week.

> i wouldn't assume there are no gi problems... they will be there,

it

> just takes a while to get tuned into what they are, working on

that

> will bring the big benefits...it does sound like he has a mildly

> leaky gut what with possible phenol sensitivites and igg...

What makes you think he has a leaky gut? The small number of low IGG

responses? I really want to know The OAT & urinary peptides don't

show casemorphin & gliadamorphin issues or whatever those tests are

looking for. He is very high functioning, great focus/attention, no

temper/aggression, mild stims (pulls his ear, bounces a ball), eye

contact, socialable kid. Disordered language, misses the salient

point, but can communicate well. No obvious GI issues. Eats anything

(prefers noodles). Mostly a healty kid. I have been watching him

carefully now since last summer, when I learned the dx to see what

symptoms he might have had that I had been overlooking. He is

strongly drawn to junk food, like all kids.

Because he is doing so well, I want to be very careful about what I

try. I don't want to go backwards. (And of course no one does).

>

> be a little cautious of tests, they show something but a picture

of a

> cloud is not a cloud if you see what i mean...

That is a great analogy!

[Guest guest]

> The high dosing of B6 is a recommendation that is in a lot of the

> autism literature. (ARI, Rimland.... not trying to get anyone

> started). I bought the SNT before I had any testing done on my son &

> before I heard of enzymes. So, now I have this high B6 product.

High B6 is good for many kids, but for some it causes major hyper, and

I have at least one personal experience of it causing seizures. So

start slowly.

If you use enzymes and give gluten, you probably won't need high B6,

but you can start slowly and see if you do.

>>Do

> these kids need the high B6 because they need more, or do they need

> the high B6 because they were defficient in the first place?

Some kids are deficient, some need more because they can only absorb

small amounts, even if given a lot. That is one reason for P5P, it is

more easily absorbable, so if the child is having trouble absorbing

it, that helps.

But it can also cause hyper.

I am

> only a week into it, and am not yet giving a high dose. Also, since

> we are not GFCF that might be why we already have a good B6 level.

Work up slowly, watch for reactions, especially hyper. Are you seeing

good things?

> > snt is a malabsorbtion formula, if its working then that is

> telling

> > you something, hopefully you will be able to move out of that

> space

> > into something less extreme...

>

> Your comment about SNT is what I am trying to determine, is this the

> right thing for us to be trying. With a week into it and low levels

> being given, I haven't figured out yet how much it is helping.

> But... my 9yr old ds has been much more talkative and interested in

> reading in the last week.

Then you are seeing positives. Keep slowly increasing until you stop

seeing increased positives.

>>He is

> strongly drawn to junk food, like all kids.

Consider yeast and artificials as possible problems.

http://www.danasview.net/yeast.htm

Dana

[Guest guest]

when you get into horse doses...

1000mg of vit c ... i would try .65mcg/lb of selenomethionine

you should be able to drop the vit c right back, don't take the

selenomethionine with the vitc as it appears to inhibit absorbtion of

the selenium

selenomethione appears to work synergystically with vit c

..> It sounds like you are saying that the enzymes could indirectly

help

> with the glutathione levels.

>

> > snt is a malabsorbtion formula, if its working then that is

> telling

> > you something, hopefully you will be able to move out of that

> space

> > into something less extreme...

>

> Your comment about SNT is what I am trying to determine, is this

the

> right thing for us to be trying. With a week into it and low levels

> being given, I haven't figured out yet how much it is helping.

> But... my 9yr old ds has been much more talkative and interested in

> reading in the last week.

>

well it does sound like its helping but maybe causing a bit of hyper

so you child may respond to lower doses...

!

you can get apparent improved function in the short term with mega

doses becuase hyper has its own energy...

better to go for doses that show a consistent long term improvement

even if they are not as startling as the high dose, all the improved

performance with the high dose is telling you is that that he

responds to this supplement...

i would try the selenomethione but be aware there is a relatively

fine line between a helpful and toxic dose with selenium...

since he seems to be reponding to to the snt then it maybe the

b6/magnesium which is a serotonin enhancer that may be doing good for

him...

also an undermethylator and tmg may assist

but low rda multiple b6, chelated magneisium, low rda vit c , broad

spectrum b vits...