Re: the pain issue

November 11, 2004

Actually, I'd have to agree with that. After spending 2 months in the NICU,

babies are subjected to all sort of lab tests to make sure certain levels are

right. Aidan wouldn't even flinch when they'd take his blood. To drain the

fluid from his head they had to stick a needle in his head into a little

resevoir to drain it, he'd sleep right through it.

Yes, I do believe they feel pain and they show very specific signs of pain in

their attitude so I do believe they have a way of measuring a baby's pain. Just

some thoughts

Number23 number23@...> wrote:

I don't have the research to back this up, but based on things I have heard

before and based on just watching my own two babies grow I believe there is some

truth to the theory that babies do feel pain - But not to the degree adults feel

due to their immature nervous system. You can watch your baby or toddler get a

boo-boo and you cringe thinking " Man that's gotta hurt! " but the child acts as

if he felt nothing. They can laugh off a head-bump that leaves a big old goose

egg on their forehead! Or accidently cut their fingernail too short - we all

know how bad that hurts us, but they hardly react to it. Look at how we wad

them up all day long in various positions, in their stroller, car seat, just

holding them or putting those tight little head bands around their skull or

tight shoes or pinching waist band on a pair of pants.... and if they are

uncomfortable the little one's can't even move their self to a more comfortable

position yet they rarely exhibit any signs of pain or

discomfort. I really don't think babies feel AS MUCH as adults do. Some, yes,

but not as much.

Part of it might even be psychological - as adults we know things might hurt, or

will hurt, so we prepare to be in pain and then we are in pain but maybe babies

don't know that yet so they aren't as tuned in to pain as we are?

just something to think about.

s.

I just don't understand why they think because babies don't form the words that

the pain doesn't hurt just the same. I wrote that my brother got stitches

without novacaine, but left out that he screamed like nothing I have ever heard

during the whole process. I am sure he had thought of some words to form after

that stupid decision......

November 12, 2004

What I've always heard is that they don't necessarily doubt that they

feel any pain (to what degree I don't know), but that they don't

remember it. And that anesthesia in such a tiny patient is not worth

the risk since they don't remember it. My son was put to sleep for

his tenotomy and I was worried when the anesthesiologist told me the

long line of risks, but I was glad he was going to be very still and

not experience any pain during the procedure. However the day of the

procedure he acted like he had A LOT of pain. While we were driving

home (which took over 6 hours due to all the comfort stops we had to

make). He cried (high pitched screams) with each bump on the road.

He was pitiful. But he seems like he has a pretty high pain

tolerance now. I don't think I would be able to have them to do it

without anything. Good luck!

Pam and (8-12-01)

> I don't have the research to back this up, but based on things I

have heard before and based on just watching my own two babies grow I

believe there is some truth to the theory that babies do feel pain -

But not to the degree adults feel due to their immature nervous

system. You can watch your baby or toddler get a boo-boo and you

cringe thinking " Man that's gotta hurt! " but the child acts as if he

felt nothing. They can laugh off a head-bump that leaves a big old

goose egg on their forehead! Or accidently cut their fingernail too

short - we all know how bad that hurts us, but they hardly react to

it. Look at how we wad them up all day long in various positions,

in their stroller, car seat, just holding them or putting those tight

little head bands around their skull or tight shoes or pinching waist

band on a pair of pants.... and if they are uncomfortable the little

one's can't even move their self to a more comfortable position yet

they rarely exhibit any signs of pain or discomfort. I really don't

think babies feel AS MUCH as adults do. Some, yes, but not as much.

>

> Part of it might even be psychological - as adults we know things

might hurt, or will hurt, so we prepare to be in pain and then we are

in pain but maybe babies don't know that yet so they aren't as tuned

in to pain as we are?

>

> just something to think about.

> s.

>

> I just don't understand why they think because babies don't form

the words that the pain doesn't hurt just the same. I wrote that my

brother got stitches without novacaine, but left out that he screamed

like nothing I have ever heard during the whole process. I am sure

he had thought of some words to form after that stupid decision......

>

November 12, 2004

Some of the arguments the medical community uses... Seriously.

And Pam, I'm not saying I think you endorse this reasoning.

They don't remember the pain, so it's okay to slice into them without numbing.

Do we get to claim things like " they won't remember the sexual abuse, so it's

fine " ? Pushes my buttons something awful, this kind of thinking.

That being said, I think if Jonah's doctor had given us the choice between a

local then the tenotomy or just the tenotomy, I may have gone without the local.

However, she applied the topical cream, put a clear bandage thing over it and

sent us off for an hour. Then he had the local, followed by the tenotomy. He

did not make peep until they began the casting--and that was about being held

down. He was crawling around in the casts while they were still wet.

In a grumbly mood,

Naomi

The Family

Naomi Hannah(02/21/01) Jonah(06/20/03, bilateral clubfoot,

pammi_kay pammi_kay@...> wrote: