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RE: Digest Number 210

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In a message dated 12/18/1999 4:48:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,

candidiasisonelist writes:

I would like treatments that are simple and backed by sound science.

Your input is gratefully awaited.

Jon Randle >>

Jon, here are some links for you that might help. My understanding is that a

really chronic yeast condition has to be treated with both anti fungals and

diet. Nor bread, sugar etc.

<A HREF= " http://www.healthandlifestyle.com/candida.html " >Candida & Lifestyle<

/A> <A HREF= " http://cwchealth.com/Candida-yeast-overgrowth.html " >Candida

Yeast Overgrowth-The Candida Yeast Answer is the most complete informat</A>

<A HREF= " http://cwchealth.com/page3.html " >Candida Yeast Overgrowth

Conditions Answers List</A> <A

HREF= " http://www.naturalhealthconsult.com/conditions.html " >Health Conditions.

Recommendations of Supplements that help.</A>

<A HREF= " http://www.candidaprogram.com/aminoacids.html " >Candida Albicans, by

Dr. Bruce MacFarland, Ph. D., CCN</A>

<A HREF= " http://www.candidaprogram.com/hyperammonemia.html " >Candida

Albicans, by Dr. Bruce MacFarland, Ph. D., CCN - Hyperammonemia</A>

Maggi

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  • 1 month later...

Hi , my twins are 3 1/2, Eli (DS) and his sister Milo. I also have a 5

1/2 year old. Last school year when the twins were 2 I sent them together to

a typical two's program. It was challenging because Eli wasn't walking yet,

but they accommodated him with his posterior walker. It was 3 days a week.

The other 2 days he went to a class at EI and had his therapies.

I think he benefited just because he is a very social little boy, but I have

seen more progress this year in a special ed class. If you can combine the

" regular " class with therapies, an aide, etc. your child can get the best of

both worlds. In our case we didn't have lots of trained support in the

preschool class, just extra hands.

I have to admit I felt good having him in a regular sort of class, with his

sister. And he enjoyed it. The bottom line is what's going to benefit him

the most, and what will be most convenient for you. That sounds harsh but if

you;'re going to be a stress machine that won't benefit anyone. Don't forget

to take your needs into account too!!!

Hope this helps!

Debbi

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  • 3 weeks later...

In a message dated 2/28/00 2:29:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,

onelist writes:

<< Hi everyone, I just made a new bath and body list. If you wanna join,

e-mail me! It's called 1-_Recipes-1onelist. Thanks, Bye

MailCity. Secure Email Anywhere, Anytime!

http://www.mailcity.com

>>

I would like to sign up but I couldnt find the page could you send me the

sign up page addy or let me know what catagories to find you under

Jule

elfbqueen1@...

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I believe she wrote back and said that she changed her mind?

Re: Digest Number 210

> From: elfbqueen1@...

>

> In a message dated 2/28/00 2:29:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> onelist writes:

>

> << Hi everyone, I just made a new bath and body list. If you wanna join,

> e-mail me! It's called 1-_Recipes-1onelist. Thanks, Bye

>

>

> MailCity. Secure Email Anywhere, Anytime!

> http://www.mailcity.com

>

> >>

> I would like to sign up but I couldnt find the page could you send me the

> sign up page addy or let me know what catagories to find you under

> Jule

> elfbqueen1@...

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  • 9 months later...

In a message dated 12/8/00 4:33:44 PM, egroups writes:

<< Also, the IDEA people out there. Can you send me where and what it says

in

the IEP about parents being 50% of the IEP? I want to be able to quote that

in June when we do transition. >>

it doesn't, there is nothing in IDEA that gives a % to any person at an IEP.

Green

Mom to 17/ds

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Like I said and I repeat, it says EQUAL participation. I interpret that to

mean, no matter how many teachers, therapists, principals, vice principals,

social workers, school psychologists, dogcatchers and other various and

sundry people they stack on THEIR side of the IEP, I still have EQUAL

participation and that means (to me) that I am equal to all 10 or 12 of

them. Perhaps OSERS should have been less vague in their regulations. I

interpret EQUAL participation to mean that I am 50% of that team. The

school district personnel (all 100 or so of them at the meeting) are the

other 50% and that means (to me) that they can only overrule me by taking me

to court.

Elaine

Re: Digest Number 210

>

> In a message dated 12/8/00 4:33:44 PM, egroups writes:

>

> << Also, the IDEA people out there. Can you send me where and what it

says

> in

>

> the IEP about parents being 50% of the IEP? I want to be able to quote

that

>

> in June when we do transition. >>

>

> it doesn't, there is nothing in IDEA that gives a % to any person at an

IEP.

>

> Green

> Mom to 17/ds

>

>

>

>

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  • 5 months later...
Guest guest

As a result of the story that ran in the NY Times on Fear and Poverty of

Migrant Farm Workers living in the U.S., I'd like to share our experience

with taking medical services to migrant camps and migrant farm workers in

our area. We are a community/migrant clinic based in north San Diego County.

We recently expanded our mobile clinic program from 4 hours, 3 times per

week to 8 hours, 3 times per week.

Our CEO, Irma Cota is a member of the California Endowment task force that

addresses the issues of health care needs of migrant farmworkers; and as a

community and migrant clinic, we are aware of the medical needs of migrant

farm workers (diabetes medication, high blood pressure, anemia, flu, STDs,

etc.), but we are often met with resistance when we approach growers, and

foremen about providing medical services onsite. Although growers provide

little in terms of health care to their farm workers, they do not always

welcome community assistance.

Another concern for us is the lack of transportation that workers face. It

is often risky for them to drive to the nearest community clinic, and few

growers are willing to take sick workers to health care providers unless it

is a critical condition. We have 8 community clinics; all of them are

located on a bus route; and 50% of our staff is bi-lingual, and bi-cultural.

We are one of three community clinics in this area of the county, and yet

together we are still unable to care for migrants who live within a few

miles of a health center.

We do not stand alone in our attempts to take medical care to migrant farm

workers who need it; other community-based and faith-based organizations

have seen the need and are working to improve migrant farm workers' ability

to access a variety of resources and services. Yet we cannot force our way

into migrant camps and farms/nurseries where these men and women work. One

way, we can begin curtailing these health disparities, is to have growers,

migrant farm workers and community clinics collaborate honestly, and openly.

And this kind of collaboration is imperative.

Tamara F. Cummings

Marketing Operations Manager

North County Health Services

150 Valpreda Road

San Marcos, CA 92069

Tel.: (760) 736-8634

Fax: (760) 736-6753

Email: tcummin@...

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ]

Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 2:32 AM

Subject: [ ] Digest Number 210

To Post a message, send it to: Groups

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:

-unsubscribe

------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 2 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. NYTimes.com Article: Fear and Poverty Sicken Many Migrant Workers

in U.S.

From: Don Villarejo <donfarm@...>

2. RE: NYTimes.com Article: Fear and Poverty Sicken Many Migrant

Workers in U.S.

From: " Lighthall " <dlighthall@...>

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 20:09:51 -0700

From: Don Villarejo <donfarm@...>

Subject: NYTimes.com Article: Fear and Poverty Sicken Many Migrant Workers

in U.S.

Hi Everyone - The following story ran in the Sunday, May 13, 2001, issues

of the New York Times. It is based on the California Agricultural Worker

Health Survey.

Don Villarejo

>Fear and Poverty Sicken Many Migrant Workers in U.S.

>

>

>By STEVEN GREENHOUSE

>

>

>

>CUTLER, Calif. - Francisco Plaza, a 35-year-old farm worker from

>Mexico, made a rare visit to a doctor last year after he suddenly

>lost a lot of weight. The doctor told him that he had diabetes and

>ordered him to take two medications that cost $134 a month.

>

> But Mr. Plaza, who prunes fruit trees for $6.25 an hour, often

>skips his medicine, saying he cannot afford it after paying for

>food and rent.

>

> " Some months he doesn't get much work, so it's hard to afford, "

>his wife, lva, said at their modest home in this Central Valley

>farm town. " When he doesn't work, he doesn't buy his medicine. "

>

> Mr. Plaza, who has lived in the United States for four years, is

>in the same bind as many other Mexican farm workers who live more

>or less permanently in the United States. While federal clinics for

>migrants are supposed to serve all indigent farm workers, illegal

>immigrants shun them because they do not qualify for state Medicaid

>coverage and fear discovery of their illegal status. (Almost half

>of the migrant farm workers are in the country illegally.) Farm

>workers often do not see doctors until their condition is so dire

>that they must go to emergency rooms, which are not permitted to

>turn them away.

>

> " A situation we see every day is a terrible diabetic who can't

>afford the $200 a month for medicine, and that person ends up with

>renal failure, " Dr. Sablan, who runs a clinic for farm

>workers in Firebaugh, Calif., said. " Then they're able to get a

>state health insurance card and dialysis. That's $1 million a

>year. "

>

> Diabetes, high blood pressure and anemia occur at higher rates

>among California's 700,000 immigrant farm workers, mainly from

>Mexico, than among Americans, and the workers' health worsens the

>longer they stay in the United States.

>

> A study to be released this month found that poor diet and

>infrequent visits to doctors make the health of longtime migrant

>farm workers considerably worse than that of those who have just

>arrived, even after accounting for differences in age.

>

> Preliminary findings by the California Policy Research Center in

>Berkeley indicate that illegal immigrant farm workers, newly

>arrived from Mexico, have far lower cholesterol, lower blood

>pressure and less obesity than do farm workers who have lived here

>legally for a while.

>

> " It's an appalling picture, " said K. Ross, president of the

>California Endowment, a foundation specializing in health issues.

> " These are people who help keep food prices low for American

>families, and I have a hard time figuring out why their health

>status should be so poor. "

>

> Many things complicate the farm workers' health, including

>unfamiliarity with American medicine and a lack of exercise in the

>long stretches they are unemployed. A poor diet is a key to their

>high rates of diabetes, high blood pressure and anemia, researchers

>say, and it gets worse as the migrants combine American fast food

>with the staples of tacos and refried beans. Other factors are the

>lack of money and insurance.

>

> A study released last November found that the women, 36 percent of

>the migrants, were far more likely than the men to visit doctors,

>largely because pregnant farm workers, even illegal immigrants,

>qualify for state health insurance. Indigent men here illegally do

>not qualify except for medical emergencies. The median income of

>the 971 farm workers in the November study, sponsored by the

>California Endowment, was less than $10,000 a year.

>

> Many growers acknowledge that their workers' health is

>substandard, but they blame an inferior health system in Mexico and

>the failure of the workers to take care of themselves. Many growers

>say they cannot afford to provide insurance.

>

> But many growers agree with advocates for the workers that the

>federal system of community and migrant health clinics is

>inadequate.

>

> " The situation is harder because there aren't enough health

>professionals in many of these rural areas, " Don Dressler,

>president of insurance services for the Western Growers

>Association, said.

>

> These concerns have made an impression on the Bush administration,

>which has proposed a 10 percent, or $124 million, increase next

>year for the nation's 3,400 community health clinics, including its

>400 migrant health clinics. Advocates for the workers applaud that,

>but are unhappy that Mr. Bush has proposed reducing money to train

>doctors in underserved rural areas.

>

> Farm owners say they want laws that will make it easier to provide

>discounted health insurance through grower associations for

>documented and undocumented workers alike.

>

> And like many farm workers, growers favor having more

>government-sponsored mobile health clinics visit farms. For many

>farm workers, simply getting to a clinic is an obstacle - the

>clinics are often far away, the workers generally do not own cars,

>and buses rarely run between farm communities.

>

> Don Villarejo, founder of the California Institute of Rural

>Studies, which conducted the November study, said the state,

>growers and workers should contribute to a health program. He

>proposes assessing a few cents per bushel of produce to help

>finance the program.

>

> " For another nickel a head of lettuce, we could raise wages by 40

>percent and provide health insurance, " he said.

>

> Yovana Cisneros Espindola, 23, the wife of an undocumented farm

>worker from Mexico, was fortunate, because of her pregnancy, to

>have state health insurance last year when she suffered her first

>multiple sclerosis attack, which temporarily blinded her. Her child

>was born last November, and she no longer has insurance and cannot

>afford the pills needed to slow the advance of the disease. They

>cost $10,000 a year.

>

> linda Avitia, a worker with Catholic Charities, wrote to the

>Biogen pharmaceutical company, which agreed to give Ms. Cisneros

>the medication for three months and to consider renewing the gift.

>

> Ms. Cisneros's husband, Francisco, hardly ever sees a doctor.

>

>

> " It's too expensive, " Mr. Cisneros said at their dark, crowded

>apartment in Visalia, Calif. " Even if I have a bad fever, I go to

>work anyway. If I miss work to go to a doctor, how am I going to

>pay for food for my family? "

>

>http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/13/national/13LABO.html?ex=990807442ei=1 & en=

d9bea1d675a1fc52

>

Don Villarejo, PhD

P.O. Box 381

, CA 95617

(530)756-6545 voice & facsimile

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 21:42:35 -0700

From: " Lighthall " <dlighthall@...>

Subject: RE: NYTimes.com Article: Fear and Poverty Sicken Many Migrant

Workers in U.S.

HI Don:

The story was great although I was upset the way the CPRC credit was

written--sounds like they did the research!

Was this the plan?

Regards,

-----Original Message-----

From: Don Villarejo [mailto:donfarm@...]

Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 8:10 PM

Subject: [ ] NYTimes.com Article: Fear and Poverty

Sicken Many Migrant Workers in U.S.

Hi Everyone - The following story ran in the Sunday, May 13, 2001, issues

of the New York Times. It is based on the California Agricultural Worker

Health Survey.

Don Villarejo

>Fear and Poverty Sicken Many Migrant Workers in U.S.

>

>

>By STEVEN GREENHOUSE

>

>

>

>CUTLER, Calif. - Francisco Plaza, a 35-year-old farm worker from

>Mexico, made a rare visit to a doctor last year after he suddenly

>lost a lot of weight. The doctor told him that he had diabetes and

>ordered him to take two medications that cost $134 a month.

>

> But Mr. Plaza, who prunes fruit trees for $6.25 an hour, often

>skips his medicine, saying he cannot afford it after paying for

>food and rent.

>

> " Some months he doesn't get much work, so it's hard to afford, "

>his wife, lva, said at their modest home in this Central Valley

>farm town. " When he doesn't work, he doesn't buy his medicine. "

>

> Mr. Plaza, who has lived in the United States for four years, is

>in the same bind as many other Mexican farm workers who live more

>or less permanently in the United States. While federal clinics for

>migrants are supposed to serve all indigent farm workers, illegal

>immigrants shun them because they do not qualify for state Medicaid

>coverage and fear discovery of their illegal status. (Almost half

>of the migrant farm workers are in the country illegally.) Farm

>workers often do not see doctors until their condition is so dire

>that they must go to emergency rooms, which are not permitted to

>turn them away.

>

> " A situation we see every day is a terrible diabetic who can't

>afford the $200 a month for medicine, and that person ends up with

>renal failure, " Dr. Sablan, who runs a clinic for farm

>workers in Firebaugh, Calif., said. " Then they're able to get a

>state health insurance card and dialysis. That's $1 million a

>year. "

>

> Diabetes, high blood pressure and anemia occur at higher rates

>among California's 700,000 immigrant farm workers, mainly from

>Mexico, than among Americans, and the workers' health worsens the

>longer they stay in the United States.

>

> A study to be released this month found that poor diet and

>infrequent visits to doctors make the health of longtime migrant

>farm workers considerably worse than that of those who have just

>arrived, even after accounting for differences in age.

>

> Preliminary findings by the California Policy Research Center in

>Berkeley indicate that illegal immigrant farm workers, newly

>arrived from Mexico, have far lower cholesterol, lower blood

>pressure and less obesity than do farm workers who have lived here

>legally for a while.

>

> " It's an appalling picture, " said K. Ross, president of the

>California Endowment, a foundation specializing in health issues.

> " These are people who help keep food prices low for American

>families, and I have a hard time figuring out why their health

>status should be so poor. "

>

> Many things complicate the farm workers' health, including

>unfamiliarity with American medicine and a lack of exercise in the

>long stretches they are unemployed. A poor diet is a key to their

>high rates of diabetes, high blood pressure and anemia, researchers

>say, and it gets worse as the migrants combine American fast food

>with the staples of tacos and refried beans. Other factors are the

>lack of money and insurance.

>

> A study released last November found that the women, 36 percent of

>the migrants, were far more likely than the men to visit doctors,

>largely because pregnant farm workers, even illegal immigrants,

>qualify for state health insurance. Indigent men here illegally do

>not qualify except for medical emergencies. The median income of

>the 971 farm workers in the November study, sponsored by the

>California Endowment, was less than $10,000 a year.

>

> Many growers acknowledge that their workers' health is

>substandard, but they blame an inferior health system in Mexico and

>the failure of the workers to take care of themselves. Many growers

>say they cannot afford to provide insurance.

>

> But many growers agree with advocates for the workers that the

>federal system of community and migrant health clinics is

>inadequate.

>

> " The situation is harder because there aren't enough health

>professionals in many of these rural areas, " Don Dressler,

>president of insurance services for the Western Growers

>Association, said.

>

> These concerns have made an impression on the Bush administration,

>which has proposed a 10 percent, or $124 million, increase next

>year for the nation's 3,400 community health clinics, including its

>400 migrant health clinics. Advocates for the workers applaud that,

>but are unhappy that Mr. Bush has proposed reducing money to train

>doctors in underserved rural areas.

>

> Farm owners say they want laws that will make it easier to provide

>discounted health insurance through grower associations for

>documented and undocumented workers alike.

>

> And like many farm workers, growers favor having more

>government-sponsored mobile health clinics visit farms. For many

>farm workers, simply getting to a clinic is an obstacle - the

>clinics are often far away, the workers generally do not own cars,

>and buses rarely run between farm communities.

>

> Don Villarejo, founder of the California Institute of Rural

>Studies, which conducted the November study, said the state,

>growers and workers should contribute to a health program. He

>proposes assessing a few cents per bushel of produce to help

>finance the program.

>

> " For another nickel a head of lettuce, we could raise wages by 40

>percent and provide health insurance, " he said.

>

> Yovana Cisneros Espindola, 23, the wife of an undocumented farm

>worker from Mexico, was fortunate, because of her pregnancy, to

>have state health insurance last year when she suffered her first

>multiple sclerosis attack, which temporarily blinded her. Her child

>was born last November, and she no longer has insurance and cannot

>afford the pills needed to slow the advance of the disease. They

>cost $10,000 a year.

>

> linda Avitia, a worker with Catholic Charities, wrote to the

>Biogen pharmaceutical company, which agreed to give Ms. Cisneros

>the medication for three months and to consider renewing the gift.

>

> Ms. Cisneros's husband, Francisco, hardly ever sees a doctor.

>

>

> " It's too expensive, " Mr. Cisneros said at their dark, crowded

>apartment in Visalia, Calif. " Even if I have a bad fever, I go to

>work anyway. If I miss work to go to a doctor, how am I going to

>pay for food for my family? "

>

>http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/13/national/13LABO.html?ex=990807442ei=1 & en=

d9bea1d675a1fc52

>

Don Villarejo, PhD

P.O. Box 381

, CA 95617

(530)756-6545 voice & facsimile

To Post a message, send it to: Groups

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:

-unsubscribe

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  • 5 weeks later...
Guest guest

>thanks so much for the veggie bake recipe. It was so simple and very tasty.

>Do you happen to know the nutritional breakdown? I'll have to try the pizza

>idea too, thanks

> -becky

Becky : check the support list archives for more recipes. Search " recipes " .

Also see the main list " files " for more recipes.

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  • 5 months later...

shhhhhh, I'm at work people. I couldn't help cheering when I heard Dave's news! Congrats Dave! Raf, try not to worry. There is treatment available and my results were very similar to yours. I have completed treatment and as of my last blood test, I was considered a responder and hopefully I will stay in remission. Read the Green Card of AA. It helps me!

Vicky

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Thanks Vicky, I'm happy that you too are in remission.

Let's make a point of staying that way! I agree, Raf,

it sounds like you have not suffered too serious

damage to your liver, some damage may be reversible,

and I have even heard of people with irreversible

damage coming back to health. I understand that the

undamaged portion of the liver can take over the

function of that that may be damaged. We would all

agree that it sucks, but there is much to be hopeful

for. -dz-

--- VicLea227@... wrote:

> shhhhhh, I'm at work people. I couldn't help

> cheering when I heard Dave's

> news! Congrats Dave! Raf, try not to worry. There

> is treatment available

> and my results were very similar to yours. I have

> completed treatment and as

> of my last blood test, I was considered a responder

> and hopefully I will stay

> in remission. Read the Green Card of AA. It helps

> me!

>

> Vicky

>

__________________________________________________

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  • 10 months later...

This is just an update......my first 2 shots weren't too bad....the 3rd one on

Thursday night kicked ass big time.....yesterday, I was so sick I thought I was

dying......have been sleeping on and off day and night, up a couple of hours

then back to bed.....today I'm still sick and have alot of liver pain this

time.....and bone pain....so I am certainly looking for a better day ahead......

My Shelby dog seems to be doing much better.....I think Marilyn asked if this

was something she would recover from.....no....she has heart disease,

hypothyroidism and hip dsyplagia....kind of like her moma....LOL.....I count

each day with her a blessing......

I was reading an interesting article on the internet the other night and it

pretty much confirmed what I had been thinking......it talked about how chronic

hepatitis c affected other body organs and how it could be a cause of the spine

disintergrating or spinal degeneration......my spinal problems started when I

was a young woman in 1977.....and at the time I was treated for osteoarthritis

just by the symptoms presented.....that is the same time I started having other

symptoms that I now recognize as the hepatitis c......now I am 54 and in a

wheelchair with 3 crumbled vertabrae, spinal stenosis and permanent nerve

damage....and the neurosurgeons had no idea what could have caused

this......this diagnosis was made 3 years before finding the hepatitis c.

Being the dreamer that I am, pushes me on and my newest dream is to go to

Washington, DC next May for the hepatitis awareness march.....I would appreciate

prayers from all of you concerning this....it seems an impossible mountain to

climb if I look at it as a realist....LOL....dreaming has taken me on many

journey's in my life and I am so grateful for the experiences.....love to

all.....judy

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  • 1 year later...

--- In blepharophimosis , " Vahl, Cheryl " <cheryl-vahl@u...>

wrote:

> My daughter never had any bright red bleeding either..that sounds scary. The

gap

between the lower lid and the globe of her eye seems to cause problems in that

blinking doesn't clean her eyes and get rid of debris...what kind of lower lid

procedures have folks had done? Her surgeon pulls up the lower lid from the

outer

corner, but it doesn't seem to stay for long (~month)...Thanks Cheri Vahl, Iowa

City IA,

USA

What are some ways you help your daughter protect her eyes and clean them when

needed? I tried these infant sunglasses on and he was fine with it until

now.

And trying to wipe his eyes or even cleanse them (the doc suggested rinsing them

with water and a few drops of baby shampoo) is a major battle which I'd rather

not

engage in, if I wasn't so vigilant about keeping his eyes clean. He has a lot of

discharge which builds up. Sometimes we call him " Crusty " . :)

Sorry I don't know about the lower lid procedures...that is in our future.

Debbie

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Funny that.....We call ethan *crusty-boy:)* as well.....builds up overnight ha!!!...So in the morning they can be kinda *crusty*....And by the way...he HATES them being wiped! cries most the time, and its a lot harder to remove because the eyes are so small and tight.... I know babies all hate getting there faces cleaned but sometimes I wonder if it hurts when I wipe his eyes???

-- blepharophimosis Re: Digest Number 210

> My daughter never had any bright red bleeding either..that sounds scary. The gap between the lower lid and the globe of her eye seems to cause problems in that blinking doesn't clean her eyes and get rid of debris...what kind of lower lid procedures have folks had done? Her surgeon pulls up the lower lid from the outer corner, but it doesn't seem to stay for long (~month)...Thanks Cheri Vahl, Iowa City IA, USAWhat are some ways you help your daughter protect her eyes and clean them when needed? I tried these infant sunglasses on and he was fine with it until now. And trying to wipe his eyes or even cleanse them (the doc suggested rinsing them with water and a few drops of baby shampoo) is a major battle which I'd rather not engage in, if I wasn't so vigilant about keeping his eyes clean. He has a lot of discharge which builds up. Sometimes we call him "Crusty". :)Sorry I don't know about the lower lid procedures...that is in our future.Debbie

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