RE: Setting the record straight

December 2, 2000

> message/Dr/656

> From: <JDrew63929@a...>

> Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 10:28pm

> Subject: Re: New Synchrometer Method

>

> << See you there... I'm the mean looking guy in the tan

> suit.

>

> Tim >>

>

> Naaw..........mean looking? Ha ha....I've already seen you. See ya there!

>

> Jan

>

> ****************

>

> As we can see from the above, Jan Drew was NOT sitting in the courtroom

" at

> the same time " , but apparently a couple days later, contrary to what you

> write below:

No it's you who is making assumptions, and exactly points to many different

ways people can read things. My saying I already seen you was talking of

seeing Tim at open house which was in Oct. of 98. I also said *see ya there*

..Your assumptiom makes no sense. I was indeed sitting next to Jan Bolen at

the hearing. We were both wiping tears from our eyes to see Hulda being put

through such nonsense. The *only* reason she was there is because the newly

elected prosecutor wanted to make a name for himself, and just happen to be

married to Amy.

>The cause of the " disruptions " is the fault of those who will not or cannot

answer these simple questions. Period!

Or could it be the assumptions made? Just as your reading my post with the

assumption (stretched I might add) and then proclaimed that Tim and Jan lied

about it.

Why is the so-called " research " at her Mexican " research facility " not

submitted for publication in scientific journals?

You really don't know the answer to that? The minute Hulda's name is

mentioned it is proclaimed BS. PERIOD.........no exceptions........by ALL

conventional people in this country. That's why she preferred to publish to

the people. Everyone knows how long it takes to get studies done, even then

they aren't accepted. There are many studies done with plenty of evidence

that mercury amalgams are dangerous, yet they are ignored by conv. medicine.

Know why? BECAUSE IT STEPS ON THE TOES OF TOO MANY PEOPLE!!!!!! And proves

that the ADA is *STILL* lying. Oh yes and one other little minor thing. IT

PROVES THAT QUACK BAR..........RAT IS A QUACK AND A LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why all the secrecy?

Secercy? She has published four books now, the last one having to do with

cases in the clinic.

>If Hulda's " truth " is so fragile that it cannot tolerate examination (which

always involves asking critical questions), then it isn't worth very much.

Uh huh, and ask Bar.......RAT why he took down the little note under his

writings that said something to the effect that further information was

coming or would be investigated. He only publishes the studies that *agree*

with his sick opinion. People like him are causing others to suffer and

die.............all because he belongs to the *good ole boy club.*

I don't know if Hulda has all the answers, I do know THAT SHE IS 100% CORRECT

ABOUT THE TEETH!!!!

Had I not read her books I would most likely be six feet under.

Now say what you will about Hulda, it's a free country, but comparing her to

Bar.......RAT just doesn't cut the mustard. ABSOLUTELY NO

COMPARISON!!!!!!!!!!!

She doesn't give two hoots about the *good ole boy club, she does care about

sick people. What you fail to realize is most of the people she seees have

been told *by the good ole boy club* to go home and prepare to die.

So I must add if conventional medicine is as wonderful as Quack Bar.....RAT

proclaims, why are 50% of people turning to alternative medicine?????????

This makes about 200 times I have said this on several different newsgroups.

It's growing tiresome. It's not questions we don't like it's the *FACT* that

minds are completely closed. We have already seen that the mercury amalgams

studies and evidence hasn't been accepted, and we know why.

Now, why don't you spend your time with helping to get the 1.3 million errors

EACH YEAR, from conv. medicine stopped??????????????? That's a serious

problem. If you get a chance please watch *Why doctors make mistakes* on TV.

We know what the problems are and they can be prevented. Why oh why doesn't

*THAT* concern you more that people like Hulda???????

Jan

December 2, 2000

> Dear Uncle Erasmus:

>

> It was great to have you with us for Thanksgiving and to discuss your

> interest in the Dr. theories. I am grateful you let me use your

> Hotmail to point out some things about dentistry to people.

Hmmm. Is he too poor to have a computer or his own e-mail address??

People will accept " truth " only from sources they agree with, regardless of

the evidence to the contrary.

LOL.........ya mean like Quack Bar.........RAT?? Or yourself?? Ingoring ALL

the studies and evidence about mercury amalgams?????????????????????

<snip[ opinion about Lea and the Bolens>

He doesn't belong on this list. They don't belong on this list either.

A bit of a control problem there nephue?????

Let me know if you need anything answered about health issues.

ROTFLOL.................

Jan

December 2, 2000

Thank you,

As well as publicly calling me a liar - which I'm not

- you have pretty well made my argument for me.

Jan Bolen

--- Lee <pglee@...> wrote:

> Re: Hulda Rumor

>

> > No truth to the rumor. I'm sure the quackpots has

> > their hopes up...

> >

> > --- XXXXX@... wrote:

> > > Tim,

> > > There is a rumor, I hope it is just that, that

> Hulda

> > > has been diagnosed with breast cancer and

> has

> > > undergone surgery. Could you please advise me as

> to

> > > the truth of this rumor? If there is truth to

> this

> > > rumor please relay our condolences to Hulda and

> we

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

December 2, 2000

I has been busy and met my new friend Belle. My nephue sent me somthing and told me to send it on. He taught me to paste stuff to mail.

Dear Uncle Erasmus:

It was great to have you with us for Thanksgiving and to discuss your interest in the Dr. theories. I am grateful you let me use your Hotmail to point out some things about dentistry to people. Several things became quickly clear and I confirmed this by reading many old posts to this list. Anyone who questions anything gets quickly attacked for trying to raise legitimate points. People will accept "truth" only from sources they agree with, regardless of the evidence to the contrary.

Leo asked for references and got them. He never replied. He also never has replied to tell you who he is. He does not appear to follow Dr. 's methods. He only promotes them. He also attacks anyone who raises any point he disagrees with. He seems to want to tell everyone how to manage their health, but then doesn't want to take responsibility for what he says. He never did tell you about his resignation. He questions others but won't answer questions. He doesn't belong on this list.

Mr Lee has pointed out in detail how some others on the list are not truthful. The people who call themselves Tim and Jan Bolen have not been talking about Dr. 's methods and illness. They only attack people who question anything, impune motives of others (call them "infiltrators", as if this group is not an open forum for discussion), and fail to honestly portray who they are. They say they have a business called Jurimed or JuriMed. If you go to the web you find this is the trademark of a German company. There is no JuriMed listed in any California Phone Directory. They have no address. And they write from a mail account, but send their mail from ATT WorldNet. They only seem to be promoting their business, whatever that is. They don't belong on this list either.

I am not a enthusiast, and am not a list member. Thus my identity will stay with you, Uncle. From what Mr. Lee has written these people are not the kind of people I want sending me junk mail, threats, or trying to sell me illegal and dangerous medical devices (zappers).

You can send this to on to them if you want. Use the cut and paste method I showed you. Let me know if you need anything answered about health issues.

All the best,

Tom

I has been nice so far but I don't like being called somebody I ain't or a liar. The stuff said about me ain't true and is like what coms out of Timbull.

Yours,

Tri

December 2, 2000

" Tri " and/or " Erasmus " ,

You insult the intellegence of everyone on this list by spelling

phonetically like an illiterate person would speak, and then piously playing

the martyr when people don't believe that you are who you say you are. Your

" new friend Belle " doesn't help your credibility in the slightest, any more

than your nepheu the dentist did.

Vince Richter

>From: " Erasmus Sears " <tritooth@...>

>Reply-Dregroups

><Dregroups>

>Subject: Re: Setting the record straight

>Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 11:36:17 -0500

>

>I has been busy and met my new friend Belle. My nephue sent me somthing

>and told me to send it on. He taught me to paste stuff to mail.

>

>Dear Uncle Erasmus:

>

> <snip>

>

>You can send this to on to them if you want. Use the cut and paste method

>I showed you. Let me know if you need anything answered about health

>issues.

>

>All the best,

>

>Tom

>

>I has been nice so far but I don't like being called somebody I ain't or a

>liar. The stuff said about me ain't true and is like what coms out of

>Timbull.

>

>Yours,

>

>Tri

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

December 2, 2000

> For goodness sake,

> Please drop this cartoon troll thingy!

> It's not even quaintly humorous anymore.

> Chuck

> If I promise to miss you, will you go away?

LOL...........but he's learnin to paste stuff to mail.............

Jan

December 3, 2000

For goodness sake,

Please drop this cartoon troll thingy!

It's not even quaintly humorous anymore.

Chuck

If I promise to miss you, will you go away?

On Sat, 2 Dec 2000 11:36:17 -0500, " Erasmus Sears " <tritooth@...> wrote:

>

>I has been busy and met my new friend Belle. My nephue sent me somthing and

told me to send it on. He taught me to paste stuff to mail.

>

>Dear Uncle Erasmus:

December 3, 2000

Maybe he can ask the librarian to help him unsubscribe from the list.

>From: JDrew63929@...

>Reply-Dregroups

>Dregroups

>Subject: Re: Setting the record straight

>Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 20:18:37 EST

>

> > For goodness sake,

> > Please drop this cartoon troll thingy!

> > It's not even quaintly humorous anymore.

> > Chuck

> > If I promise to miss you, will you go away?

>

>LOL...........but he's learnin to paste stuff to mail.............

>

>Jan

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

December 3, 2000

> As an Indiana resident, you could easily have been there on April 2-3,

before

> it started.

Why on earth would I want to Rome around Nashville for several days? I went

on the 4th. I'm not in the habit of hanging out and wasting time. This makes

NO sense.

You state that you " will be at the motion to dismiss on April fourth " . Tim

Bolen replies: " See you there... " . To which you reply: " .......See ya there! "

What assumptions of mine are wrong??? You were not there at the time Jan

Bolen says you were. You were there later. (The mistake regarding the time is

not yours, it's Jan Bolen's.)

What on earth are you talking about?? She said she sat beside me in court!

That was April 4th!

Here is what she said:

> I was sitting next to Jan Drew in a courtroom in

> Indiana in support of Dr. at the same time

> people on the Healthfraud list were trying to

> desseminate the false information that Dr. was

> having to go into a hospital to have surgery for

> breast cancer. I have seen too much nastiness and too

> many dirty tricks to take kindly to the postings of

> those who would like to disrupt this list.

>

> Jan Bolen

Now, if there were posts on the HF list several days before, what does that

prove?? This discussions last several days..........weeks and...........

months........sometimes. She needed an EXACT date??

Once again she said:

> I was sitting next to Jan Drew in a courtroom in

> Indiana in support of Dr. at the same time

> people on . . . . .

And then you nit pick at dates and EXACT times??

I'm not wasting any more time on something so absolutely ridiculous.

Jan

December 3, 2000

I'm going to let the whole list make their own judgement, after seeing the

evidence below:

My assumptions are based on what you and the Bolens have written.

*********************

message/Dr/649

From: <JDrew63929@a...>

Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 11:56pm

Subject: Re: New Synchrometer Method

<< . SHE IS EIGHTY YEARS OLD. >>

Correction. She is seventy one.

I will be at the motion to dismiss on April fourth.

Jan

***************

message/Dr/652

From: Tim and Jan Bolen <jurimed@y...>

Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 4:56pm

Subject: Re: New Synchrometer Method

See you there... I'm the mean looking guy in the tan

suit.

Tim

--- JDrew63929@a... wrote:

>

> << . SHE IS EIGHTY YEARS OLD. >>

>

> Correction. She is seventy one.

>

> I will be at the motion to dismiss on April fourth.

>

> Jan

>

***************

message/Dr/656

From: <JDrew63929@a...>

Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 10:28pm

Subject: Re: New Synchrometer Method

<< See you there... I'm the mean looking guy in the tan

suit.

Tim >>

Naaw..........mean looking? Ha ha....I've already seen you. See ya there!

Jan

***************

As an Indiana resident, you could easily have been there on April 2-3, before it

started. That's the time frame for the posts by the members on the HF List, in

which they express their puzzlement, try to confirm and squelch the rumor, send

their condolences to Hulda, pray for her, etc. This is also the time frame for

the claim made by Jan Bolen:

" ....at the same time

> people on the Healthfraud list were trying to

> desseminate the false information that Dr. was

> having to go into a hospital...... "

We know that it was a sick April fool's joke, written on April 1 and forwarded

to the HF List on April 2. The members then began to comment on what was

obviously a sick joke. Their reactions are all copied here:

message/Dr/2137

Here's what I based my " assumptions " on (just to refresh your memory):

You state that you " will be at the motion to dismiss on April fourth " . Tim Bolen

replies: " See you there... " . To which you reply: " .......See ya there! "

What assumptions of mine are wrong??? You were not there at the time Jan Bolen

says you were. You were there later. (The mistake regarding the time is not

yours, it's Jan Bolen's.)

And don't try to blame me for Jan Bolen's poor memory. She used a time frame for

the incorrectly supposed " desseminate(ing of) the false information " and tied it

together with the time frame for your attendance with her at the trial.

I did not call her a liar either. Anybody with an agenda can easily be a little

imprecise regarding such dates, without it being a " lie " . An " untruth " , very

much so, but not a " lie " . I just tried to " set the record straight " by sorting

through the precise dates for what happened and when it happened.

I'm in no doubt about whether you and the Bolens actually did attend the trial.

The time frame just doesn't fit. And the facts do not back up her claim that

" people on the Healthfraud list were trying to desseminate .... false

information ..... " On the contrary.

She simply got her facts mixed up and revealed her true prejudices. An easy,

though rather unsympathetic, mistake to make. It's known as a Freudian slip. An

apology from her would gratefully be accepted. I have no beef with Jan Bolen.

She has never threatened me.

When you pointed out an error on my part, I apologized immediately.

Here I state: " If I'm shown to be wrong (and it's happened more than once!), I'm

not afraid to apologize. "

message/Dr/1785

And then I did: message/Dr/1833

And you were gracious enough to accept my sincere apology:

message/Dr/1836

Enough for now,

Sincerely yours,

Lee, PT

The Quack-Files - http://www.geocities.com/healthbase

********************************************************************************\

***

" Mankind's capacity for deception and self-deception knows no limits. " -- PL

" If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. " -- Reebok ad.

" Manipulation isn't all it's cracked up to be! "

********************************************************************************\

***

Re: New Synchrometer Method

> >

> > << See you there... I'm the mean looking guy in the tan

> > suit.

> >

> > Tim >>

> >

> > Naaw..........mean looking? Ha ha....I've already seen you. See ya there!

> >

> > Jan

> >

> > ****************

> >

> > As we can see from the above, Jan Drew was NOT sitting in the courtroom

> " at

> > the same time " , but apparently a couple days later, contrary to what you

> > write below:

>

> No it's you who is making assumptions, and exactly points to many different

> ways people can read things. My saying I already seen you was talking of

> seeing Tim at open house which was in Oct. of 98. I also said *see ya there*

> .Your assumptiom makes no sense. I was indeed sitting next to Jan Bolen at

> the hearing. We were both wiping tears from our eyes to see Hulda being put

> through such nonsense. The *only* reason she was there is because the newly

> elected prosecutor wanted to make a name for himself, and just happen to be

> married to Amy.

>

> >The cause of the " disruptions " is the fault of those who will not or cannot

> answer these simple questions. Period!

>

> Or could it be the assumptions made? Just as your reading my post with the

> assumption (stretched I might add) and then proclaimed that Tim and Jan lied

> about it.

>

> Why is the so-called " research " at her Mexican " research facility " not

> submitted for publication in scientific journals?

>

> You really don't know the answer to that? The minute Hulda's name is

> mentioned it is proclaimed BS. PERIOD.........no exceptions........by ALL

> conventional people in this country. That's why she preferred to publish to

> the people. Everyone knows how long it takes to get studies done, even then

> they aren't accepted. There are many studies done with plenty of evidence

> that mercury amalgams are dangerous, yet they are ignored by conv. medicine.

> Know why? BECAUSE IT STEPS ON THE TOES OF TOO MANY PEOPLE!!!!!! And proves

> that the ADA is *STILL* lying. Oh yes and one other little minor thing. IT

> PROVES THAT QUACK BAR..........RAT IS A QUACK AND A LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> Why all the secrecy?

>

> Secercy? She has published four books now, the last one having to do with

> cases in the clinic.

>

> >If Hulda's " truth " is so fragile that it cannot tolerate examination (which

> always involves asking critical questions), then it isn't worth very much.

>

> Uh huh, and ask Bar.......RAT why he took down the little note under his

> writings that said something to the effect that further information was

> coming or would be investigated. He only publishes the studies that *agree*

> with his sick opinion. People like him are causing others to suffer and

> die.............all because he belongs to the *good ole boy club.*

>

> I don't know if Hulda has all the answers, I do know THAT SHE IS 100% CORRECT

> ABOUT THE TEETH!!!!

>

> Had I not read her books I would most likely be six feet under.

>

> Now say what you will about Hulda, it's a free country, but comparing her to

> Bar.......RAT just doesn't cut the mustard. ABSOLUTELY NO

> COMPARISON!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> She doesn't give two hoots about the *good ole boy club, she does care about

> sick people. What you fail to realize is most of the people she seees have

> been told *by the good ole boy club* to go home and prepare to die.

>

> So I must add if conventional medicine is as wonderful as Quack Bar.....RAT

> proclaims, why are 50% of people turning to alternative medicine?????????

>

> This makes about 200 times I have said this on several different newsgroups.

> It's growing tiresome. It's not questions we don't like it's the *FACT* that

> minds are completely closed. We have already seen that the mercury amalgams

> studies and evidence hasn't been accepted, and we know why.

>

> Now, why don't you spend your time with helping to get the 1.3 million errors

> EACH YEAR, from conv. medicine stopped??????????????? That's a serious

> problem. If you get a chance please watch *Why doctors make mistakes* on TV.

> We know what the problems are and they can be prevented. Why oh why doesn't

> *THAT* concern you more that people like Hulda???????

>

> Jan

>

> Learn more from:

> http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/

> http://home.online.no/~huldakli/

> http://www..net/

> http://home.online.no/~dusan/

>

December 3, 2000

Jan (Drew),

The only reason this thread got started was because Jan Bolen made an untrue

accusation which I tried to set straight. Since the untrueness of it involved

two factors, it was necessary to analyze them both. Hence all the timing

details.

It was Jan Bolen that said she was together with you " at the same time " the

" desseminate(ion of) the false information " by " people on the Healthfraud list "

was supposed to be happening. She has absolutely no proof for this. On the

contrary.

I dealt with and exposed the libelous, hate-spreading nature of her accusation

against the HF List members, who (fortunately) had nothing to do with the sick

April fool's joke at Hulda's expense.

She is welcome to make an apology for her untrue accusation.

The other, quite intimately related point had to do with the timing. Her memory

apparently played her a trick, possibly reinforcing her wishful thinking. By

making this timing inaccuracy part of her accusation, she opened herself up for

it being examined and likewise exposed.

The reason you don't seem to understand the whole point, is because you

(conveniently?) choose not to deal with it, but take a diversionary detour and

mention something that has nothing to do with it. Forget all about the " seeing

Tim at open house which was in Oct. of 98 " you mention. That has nothing to do

with this discussion. We won't be fooled by such tactics.

The key words are

" at the same time " .

Focus on those words of Jan Bolen, and you just might be able to understand it.

Keep evading them and you'll reveal a serious lack of reasoning skills. You'll

just waste all of our time by fighting against straw men. Keep to the point.

The rest of my remarks are placed at the appropriate places in your post.

Re: Setting the record straight

>

> > As an Indiana resident, you could easily have been there on April 2-3,

> before

> > it started.

>

> Why on earth would I want to Rome around Nashville for several days? I went

> on the 4th. I'm not in the habit of hanging out and wasting time. This makes

> NO sense.

>

Of course it doesn't make sense to you. That's because YOU aren't keeping to the

point. I never implied that you would want to waste your time there. It is Jan

Bolen that tries to place you in the courtroom

> > at the same time

> > people on the Healthfraud list were trying to

> > desseminate the false information ......

The " false information " part of this has been dealt with and disproven.

Now it's time for the wrong timing to also be disproven (again!). That's what

you are avoiding. It's also quite interesting that neither you nor Jan Bolen

have commented the inaccuracy of the libelous and malicious false charge.

You write:

>

> You state that you " will be at the motion to dismiss on April fourth " . Tim

> Bolen replies: " See you there... " . To which you reply: " .......See ya there! "

>

> What assumptions of mine are wrong??? You were not there at the time Jan

> Bolen says you were. You were there later. (The mistake regarding the time is

> not yours, it's Jan Bolen's.)

>

> What on earth are you talking about?? She said she sat beside me in court!

> That was April 4th!

It's true that she sat beside you in court on April 4th. But that's not what she

WROTE in spite of that being what she probably meant.

What she WROTE was something else. Which brings us back to the point. Stick to

the point and you'll understand it.

>

> Here is what she said:

>

> > I was sitting next to Jan Drew in a courtroom in

> > Indiana in support of Dr. at the same time

> > people on the Healthfraud list were trying to

> > desseminate the false information that Dr. was

> > having to go into a hospital to have surgery for

> > breast cancer. I have seen too much nastiness and too

> > many dirty tricks to take kindly to the postings of

> > those who would like to disrupt this list.

> >

> > Jan Bolen

>

> Now, if there were posts on the HF list several days before, what does that

> prove?? This discussions last several days..........weeks and...........

> months........sometimes. She needed an EXACT date??

>

> Once again she said:

>

> > I was sitting next to Jan Drew in a courtroom in

> > Indiana in support of Dr. at the same time

> > people on . . . . .

>

SHE wrote " at the same time " . YOU write " several days before " . The discussion

on the HF List lasted two days (April 2-3) and ended. You've both read the

posts.

In your own words: " ...what does that prove?? "

It proves that she was inaccurate on both points:

(1) wrong in her hate-spreading accusation (libelous disinformation), and

(2) wrong in the timing (Her wishful thinking confused her).

She revealed:

(1) that she wants to believe that we spread that sick rumor, and

(2 that she is still trying to get others to believe it, against better

knowledge.

I did not accuse her of lying. I have given her the benefit of the doubt and

called it an " untruth " . They are not the same thing. The difference is a

question of motive.

But **NOW** the situation is quite different. In light of the information so

clearly laid out before you -- in spite of your apparent lack of willingness to

understand it -- any persistence on **ANYONE'S** part to propagate that untruth

would clearly constitute a very maliciously motivated **LIE**.

This line of reasoning WILL stand up in court. Any continued support or

repetition of the false accusation will clearly be proof of malicious intent and

punishable as libel and slander, among other things. So be very careful what you

say from now on. The evidence is piling up.

Tim Bolen's libelous post no. 1262 (just one of many libelous writings by him,

both public and private) was removed from this list, and he was enjoined

(reluctantly) by the list master to refrain from posting anything more that

violates the Terms of Service (they're below). There are several postings by

several people since then that are also libelous.

Consider this a warning. Your group has been warned and allowed to continue

under probation, and it can still be suspended. There is already enough

evidence. Since the warning below on July 4, several persons have made

themselves guilty of being accessories.

message/Dr/1266

> Dear eGroups moderators:

>

> It has come to our attention that a member of your groups, Tim

Bolen, has been posting information regarding Dr. Barrett

which Dr. Barrett considers libelous and defamatory. This

information

relates to the medical practice as well as to specific individuals.

Please note that our Terms of Service state that we have the right to

take action if we believe that a member is " uploading, posting,

emailing or otherwise transmitting any Content that is unlawful,

harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory,

vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or

racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable. "

>

> We have deleted the messages brought to our attention by Dr.

Barrett

and consider this message to be a warning to Mr. Bolen, who is being

copied on this email. Please note that you can change your group

settings in order to moderate posts so that they must be approved

before they are sent to the group.

>

> If we receive another complaint about Mr. Bolen, we will take

further action as we deem necessary, which may include termination of

his account and temporary suspension of the groups to which he posted

this information. We understand that you may not have been aware of

the content of his messages but suggest that you moderate them in the

future.

>

> Sincerely,

> eGroups Legal Department

The time when she said it is NOT the main point. That she wrote it at all

***IS*** the main point. That is libel:

LIBEL: " The crime of publishing or writing anything defamatory, or that

maliciously or damagingly misrepresents. "

Tim has done this many times. Jan Bolen, among others, is an accessory to his

action, and has herself become independently guilty.

Ironically, Hulda's publicist Tim Bolen has done irreparable harm to her cause

by his abrasivness and massive misinformation campaigns. The sooner she fires

him, the sooner she will be able to continue to practice medicine without a

license in peace. On second thought, maybe she shouldn't fire him! He's good at

attracting negative attention.

> And then you nit pick at dates and EXACT times??

>

> I'm not wasting any more time on something so absolutely ridiculous.

>

> Jan

>

You're right. The whole thing is " absolutely ridiculous " .

So why do you try to defend it? Admit it was a mistake and apologize. It's as

simple as that! I'd hate to see all of this have legal consequences for you as

well. The Bolens and Hulda are not worth it.

You have still not made clear which assumptions of mine were wrong. I must say,

you're an expert at avoiding answering uncomfortable questions.

Avoidance seems to be the name of your game.

Still waiting for answers,

Lee, PT

The Quack-Files - http://www.geocities.com/healthbase

December 5, 2000

> For goodness sake,

> Please drop this cartoon troll thingy!

> It's not even quaintly humorous anymore.

> Chuck

> If I promise to miss you, will you go away?

>LOL...........but he's learnin to paste stuff >to mail.............

Jan

Yep, an I'm all fer educatin the ignerant!

An I think I know Belle too, isn't her last name Ding Dong? ROTFL

Jan Yancer

December 5, 2000

> > For goodness sake,

> > Please drop this cartoon troll thingy!

> > It's not even quaintly humorous anymore.

> > Chuck

> > If I promise to miss you, will you go away?

>

> >LOL...........but he's learnin to paste stuff >to mail.............

> Jan

>

> Yep, an I'm all fer educatin the ignerant!

> An I think I know Belle too, isn't her last name Ding Dong? ROTFL

>

> Jan Yancer

ROTFLOL!! I think them thar Jan's' are sumpin else.

Jan Drew

December 5, 2000

My goodness! We are all certainly oozing the milk of human kindness

and full of love for our neighbour, whom we love as ourselves, this

morning, aren't we?

Hmm...I have a whole paddock littered with stones here, if you would like to

grab a few and cast them...will save me collecting them all by hand

(they chip our horses hooves, you see:))

W:)

Tuesday, December 05, 2000, 5:13:13 PM, you wrote:

>> For goodness sake,

>> Please drop this cartoon troll thingy!

>> It's not even quaintly humorous anymore.

>> Chuck

>> If I promise to miss you, will you go away?

>>LOL...........but he's learnin to paste stuff >to mail.............

J> Jan

J> Yep, an I'm all fer educatin the ignerant!

J> An I think I know Belle too, isn't her last name Ding Dong? ROTFL

J> Jan Yancer

J> Learn more from:

J> http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/

J> http://home.online.no/~huldakli/

J> http://www..net/

J> http://home.online.no/~dusan/

J>

December 5, 2000

> My goodness! We are all certainly oozing the milk of human kindness

> and full of love for our neighbour, whom we love as ourselves, this

> morning, aren't we?

>

> Hmm...I have a whole paddock littered with stones here, if you would like

to

> grab a few and cast them...will save me collecting them all by hand

> (they chip our horses hooves, you see:))

>

> W:)

December 6, 2000

Woofie wrote:

>My goodness! We are all certainly oozing the milk of human kindness

and full of love for our neighbour, whom we love as ourselves, this

morning, aren't we?

Hmm...I have a whole paddock littered with stones here, if you would like to

grab a few and cast them...will save me collecting them all by hand

(they chip our horses hooves, you see:))

W:)

Woofie,

Do you think the people we were referring to had love and kindness in mind

when they post to this list? All things considered, I think we've been

quite nice to them. This isn't a list to put people on trial, and it isn't

a list to pretend to be someone we're not. It's purpose is to share our

experiences with Hulda 's protocols, and other aternative health

information. Sometimes you need a few stones to get the horses back where

they belong!

Jan Yancer

May 15, 2001

,

I am glad that researchers like you and Don Villarejo, Alice Larson, Xochitl

Castaneda, folks in Michigan and North Carolina, and a few others have taken

such a great interest in the health of this population. I am pleased that

the California Endowment has supported your work and will continue to be

involved in this arena. My hope is that other states and private

foundations will follow California's lead in this area.

Adolfo Mata, Director

Hispanic Health Initiative

Office of the Director/Bureau of Primary Health Care

Health Resources and Services Administration/US DHHS

4350 East-West Hwy, 11th FL

Bethesda, land 20814

(301) 594-4976

amata@...

-----Original Message-----

From: Lighthall [mailto:dlighthall@...]

Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 9:21 PM

Subject: [ ] Setting the record straight

To the migrant health community:

It is my sincere hope that the results of the California Agricultural

Workers Health Survey and the Binational Health Survey, and the subsequent

press coverage they have engendered, be fully exploited in making the case

for more funding for migrant and community health clinics, and more such

clinics nationwide. It is extremely important at this critical juncture,

while Congress debates this funding, that this striking body of empirical

evidence be put to good use.

It is also extremely important that the poor health conditions of

farmworkers overall, as found in the CAWHS, be in no way associated with the

performance of the community and migrant clinic system. The clinics and

their staffs are doing great, often heroic work with limited funds. And, as

witnessed in Tamara's message below, are operating in an often hostile

employer environment with workers who about half the time are undocumented.

The real issue here is, imagine just how appalling things would be without

this system of subsidized care on the part of clinics that are striving

towards excellence in multi-cultural health care delivery! I have had the

pleasure of meeting many of you in the past several years and I have been

impressed time and time again by your dedication to the health of our

nation's farmworkers.

I would like to go on record as offering our organizational resources to

aid, in whatever way we can, the fight to secure more federal funding. I

would like to particularly direct this offer to NACHC, NCFH, FJF, and any

other organizations who are leading this fight.

Sincerely,

Lighthall Ph.D.

Executive Director

California Institute for Rural Studies

P.O. Box 2143 (U.S. Mail)

221 G Street, Suite 204

, CA 95616

Tel: (530)756-6555

Fax: (530)756-7429

dlighthall@...

-----Original Message-----

From: Tamara F. Cummings [mailto:tcummin@...]

Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 10:24 AM

Subject: RE: [ ] Digest Number 210

As a result of the story that ran in the NY Times on Fear and Poverty of

Migrant Farm Workers living in the U.S., I'd like to share our experience

with taking medical services to migrant camps and migrant farm workers in

our area. We are a community/migrant clinic based in north San Diego County.

We recently expanded our mobile clinic program from 4 hours, 3 times per

week to 8 hours, 3 times per week.

Our CEO, Irma Cota is a member of the California Endowment task force that

addresses the issues of health care needs of migrant farmworkers; and as a

community and migrant clinic, we are aware of the medical needs of migrant

farm workers (diabetes medication, high blood pressure, anemia, flu, STDs,

etc.), but we are often met with resistance when we approach growers, and

foremen about providing medical services onsite. Although growers provide

little in terms of health care to their farm workers, they do not always

welcome community assistance.

Another concern for us is the lack of transportation that workers face. It

is often risky for them to drive to the nearest community clinic, and few

growers are willing to take sick workers to health care providers unless it

is a critical condition. We have 8 community clinics; all of them are

located on a bus route; and 50% of our staff is bi-lingual, and bi-cultural.

We are one of three community clinics in this area of the county, and yet

together we are still unable to care for migrants who live within a few

miles of a health center.

We do not stand alone in our attempts to take medical care to migrant farm

workers who need it; other community-based and faith-based organizations

have seen the need and are working to improve migrant farm workers' ability

to access a variety of resources and services. Yet we cannot force our way

into migrant camps and farms/nurseries where these men and women work. One

way, we can begin curtailing these health disparities, is to have growers,

migrant farm workers and community clinics collaborate honestly, and openly.

And this kind of collaboration is imperative.

Tamara F. Cummings

Marketing Operations Manager

North County Health Services

150 Valpreda Road

San Marcos, CA 92069

Tel.: (760) 736-8634

Fax: (760) 736-6753

Email: tcummin@...

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ]

Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 2:32 AM

Subject: [ ] Digest Number 210

To Post a message, send it to: Groups

To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:

-unsubscribe

------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 2 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. NYTimes.com Article: Fear and Poverty Sicken Many Migrant Workers

in U.S.

From: Don Villarejo <donfarm@...>

2. RE: NYTimes.com Article: Fear and Poverty Sicken Many Migrant

Workers in U.S.

From: " Lighthall " <dlighthall@...>

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 20:09:51 -0700

From: Don Villarejo <donfarm@...>

Subject: NYTimes.com Article: Fear and Poverty Sicken Many Migrant Workers

in U.S.

Hi Everyone - The following story ran in the Sunday, May 13, 2001, issues

of the New York Times. It is based on the California Agricultural Worker

Health Survey.

Don Villarejo

>Fear and Poverty Sicken Many Migrant Workers in U.S.

>

>By STEVEN GREENHOUSE

>

>CUTLER, Calif. - Francisco Plaza, a 35-year-old farm worker from

>Mexico, made a rare visit to a doctor last year after he suddenly

>lost a lot of weight. The doctor told him that he had diabetes and

>ordered him to take two medications that cost $134 a month.

>

> But Mr. Plaza, who prunes fruit trees for $6.25 an hour, often

>skips his medicine, saying he cannot afford it after paying for

>food and rent.

>

> " Some months he doesn't get much work, so it's hard to afford, "

>his wife, lva, said at their modest home in this Central Valley

>farm town. " When he doesn't work, he doesn't buy his medicine. "

>

> Mr. Plaza, who has lived in the United States for four years, is

>in the same bind as many other Mexican farm workers who live more

>or less permanently in the United States. While federal clinics for

>migrants are supposed to serve all indigent farm workers, illegal

>immigrants shun them because they do not qualify for state Medicaid

>coverage and fear discovery of their illegal status. (Almost half

>of the migrant farm workers are in the country illegally.) Farm

>workers often do not see doctors until their condition is so dire

>that they must go to emergency rooms, which are not permitted to

>turn them away.

>

> " A situation we see every day is a terrible diabetic who can't

>afford the $200 a month for medicine, and that person ends up with

>renal failure, " Dr. Sablan, who runs a clinic for farm

>workers in Firebaugh, Calif., said. " Then they're able to get a

>state health insurance card and dialysis. That's $1 million a

>year. "

>

> Diabetes, high blood pressure and anemia occur at higher rates

>among California's 700,000 immigrant farm workers, mainly from

>Mexico, than among Americans, and the workers' health worsens the

>longer they stay in the United States.

>

> A study to be released this month found that poor diet and

>infrequent visits to doctors make the health of longtime migrant

>farm workers considerably worse than that of those who have just

>arrived, even after accounting for differences in age.

>

> Preliminary findings by the California Policy Research Center in

>Berkeley indicate that illegal immigrant farm workers, newly

>arrived from Mexico, have far lower cholesterol, lower blood

>pressure and less obesity than do farm workers who have lived here

>legally for a while.

>

> " It's an appalling picture, " said K. Ross, president of the

>California Endowment, a foundation specializing in health issues.

> " These are people who help keep food prices low for American

>families, and I have a hard time figuring out why their health

>status should be so poor. "

>

> Many things complicate the farm workers' health, including

>unfamiliarity with American medicine and a lack of exercise in the

>long stretches they are unemployed. A poor diet is a key to their

>high rates of diabetes, high blood pressure and anemia, researchers

>say, and it gets worse as the migrants combine American fast food

>with the staples of tacos and refried beans. Other factors are the

>lack of money and insurance.

>

> A study released last November found that the women, 36 percent of

>the migrants, were far more likely than the men to visit doctors,

>largely because pregnant farm workers, even illegal immigrants,

>qualify for state health insurance. Indigent men here illegally do

>not qualify except for medical emergencies. The median income of

>the 971 farm workers in the November study, sponsored by the

>California Endowment, was less than $10,000 a year.

>

> Many growers acknowledge that their workers' health is

>substandard, but they blame an inferior health system in Mexico and

>the failure of the workers to take care of themselves. Many growers

>say they cannot afford to provide insurance.

>

> But many growers agree with advocates for the workers that the

>federal system of community and migrant health clinics is

>inadequate.

>

> " The situation is harder because there aren't enough health

>professionals in many of these rural areas, " Don Dressler,

>president of insurance services for the Western Growers

>Association, said.

>

> These concerns have made an impression on the Bush administration,

>which has proposed a 10 percent, or $124 million, increase next

>year for the nation's 3,400 community health clinics, including its

>400 migrant health clinics. Advocates for the workers applaud that,

>but are unhappy that Mr. Bush has proposed reducing money to train

>doctors in underserved rural areas.

>

> Farm owners say they want laws that will make it easier to provide

>discounted health insurance through grower associations for

>documented and undocumented workers alike.

>

> And like many farm workers, growers favor having more

>government-sponsored mobile health clinics visit farms. For many

>farm workers, simply getting to a clinic is an obstacle - the

>clinics are often far away, the workers generally do not own cars,

>and buses rarely run between farm communities.

>

> Don Villarejo, founder of the California Institute of Rural

>Studies, which conducted the November study, said the state,

>growers and workers should contribute to a health program. He

>proposes assessing a few cents per bushel of produce to help

>finance the program.

>

> " For another nickel a head of lettuce, we could raise wages by 40

>percent and provide health insurance, " he said.

>

> Yovana Cisneros Espindola, 23, the wife of an undocumented farm

>worker from Mexico, was fortunate, because of her pregnancy, to

>have state health insurance last year when she suffered her first

>multiple sclerosis attack, which temporarily blinded her. Her child

>was born last November, and she no longer has insurance and cannot

>afford the pills needed to slow the advance of the disease. They

>cost $10,000 a year.

>

> linda Avitia, a worker with Catholic Charities, wrote to the

>Biogen pharmaceutical company, which agreed to give Ms. Cisneros

>the medication for three months and to consider renewing the gift.

>

> Ms. Cisneros's husband, Francisco, hardly ever sees a doctor.

>

> " It's too expensive, " Mr. Cisneros said at their dark, crowded

>apartment in Visalia, Calif. " Even if I have a bad fever, I go to

>work anyway. If I miss work to go to a doctor, how am I going to

>pay for food for my family? "

>

>http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/13/national/13LABO.html?ex=990807442ei=1 & en=

d9bea1d675a1fc52

>

Don Villarejo, PhD

P.O. Box 381

, CA 95617

(530)756-6545 voice & facsimile

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 21:42:35 -0700

From: " Lighthall " <dlighthall@...>

Subject: RE: NYTimes.com Article: Fear and Poverty Sicken Many Migrant

Workers in U.S.

HI Don:

The story was great although I was upset the way the CPRC credit was

written--sounds like they did the research!

Was this the plan?

Regards,

-----Original Message-----

From: Don Villarejo [mailto:donfarm@...]

Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 8:10 PM

Subject: [ ] NYTimes.com Article: Fear and Poverty

Sicken Many Migrant Workers in U.S.