Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 I'm not sure I should " butt in " since your question is so explicitly addressed to one person, but.... There is a large body of medical articles etc. all about this. It's now accepted that yes, AZT and in fact the entire family of nucleoside analogue reverse transcriptase inhibitors (NRTIs) all too frequently leads to spontaneous mito mutations, and the infamous " buffalo hump " . This latter is most interesting to me, as my flavor of mito shares this physical symptom of large central unencapsulated lipomas. A Yahoo search for " azt mitochondrial " turned up a lot, esp. the incredibly useful http://www.neuro.wustl.edu/neuromuscular/mitosyn.html . Regards Steve D. > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:56:02 -0800 (PST) > > Subject: Laurie Fitzgerald...I have a question > > Hey Laurie, > > What do you know about AZT, the med that was used for Aids patients, and mito disorders. To compound my problems, in 1998 while on vacation in Texas I helped a lady with HIV and she got sick on my leg. I went to the Hospital and they put me on AZT as a possible exposure. It really threw me for a loop, the AZT did. My family Doctor ruled it out as an exposure, but I was on the medicine for a week...and as I get to thinking that my cramping and stuff got a lot worse after this incident. > > I have read something tonight that says that AZT can deplete mtDNA faster and cause mito. > > If you have any more info I would greatly appreciate it. > > McCombs > 2 Cor 1:3-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Steve do you mean that big lump/ bump at the base of the neck? That is related to mito??? I didn't know that. Does yours get smaller and larger as your pain level changes? Is there anything to do to get rid of it? I hate it. Smiles, Laurie Fitzgerald...I have a question > > > > Hey Laurie, > > > > What do you know about AZT, the med that was used for Aids patients, and > mito disorders. To compound my problems, in 1998 while on vacation in Texas > I helped a lady with HIV and she got sick on my leg. I went to the Hospital > and they put me on AZT as a possible exposure. It really threw me for a > loop, the AZT did. My family Doctor ruled it out as an exposure, but I was > on the medicine for a week...and as I get to thinking that my cramping and > stuff got a lot worse after this incident. > > > > I have read something tonight that says that AZT can deplete mtDNA faster > and cause mito. > > > > If you have any more info I would greatly appreciate it. > > > > McCombs > > 2 Cor 1:3-4 > > > > Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements contained herein are not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of this e mail is entirely responsible for its content. List members are reminded of their responsibility to evaluate the content of the postings and consult with their physicians regarding changes in their own treatment. > > Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who sends one is automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of the attack. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 I wouldn't generalize about a mito cause, if you are referring to just one particular lump. But I wouldn't rule it out either, as just one of many symptoms. I don't know a lot about this " buffalo hump " when it's induced by AZT, but do I know that the physical appearance, development, and pathology is significantly like the physical symptoms of what I have, namely Multiple Symmetrical Lipomatosis (MSL). There are two kinds of MSL, named after doctors who first described/identified them. Madelung's is usually in older men and usually has lipomas up around the neck, shoulders, head, and upper back. Dercum's usually occurs in older women and usually has lipomas around the belly, hips, and thighs. In both forms of MSL, the development is usually long-term, and frequently but not always FIRST involves an occasional (over the course of years, sometimes from childhood) encapsulated (the more common kind) lipoma near the skin surface, anywhere on the body. These can be excised with ease, and generally don't recur at exactly the same site. Many people get these, and that's all they ever get. However, some people (very rarely) go on to get the full symptoms of MSL, which includes the very large central unencapsulated lipomas. It was once thought that this was ONLY associated with alcoholism. That makes sense to me, because long-term alcohol is known to destroy liver function, and fatty liver (hepatic steatosis) is one of many typical symptoms of FAO disorders. Still, one interesting issue is that only a very very few alcoholics get MSL. More recently (last 10 years) it has become clear that at least some MSL is inherited (as is alcoholism, in the view of some, so go figure, as to chicken and egg), and some is caused by long-term sub-lethal exposure to various other poisonous substances. My hunch is that the mechanism in all of these also involves FAO and the liver, but it's not clear where this lies in the chain of etiology. Mutations in mtDNA are frequently but NOT ALWAYS found in MSL (I'm becoming convinced that this latter is at least partly because these mutations aren't always identified). I do know that the AZT inducement of " buffalo hump " is generally thought to be the result of spontaneous mutation of mtDNA, and that FAO abnormalities (including fatty liver) are present. In both AZT-induced hump, and MSL, there are also a lot of the typical mito symptoms: extreme exercise intolerance, peripheral neuropathy, dizziness and fainting, etc. So it seems entirely reasonable to me that the development of the AZT hump is strongly linked to MSL, but obviously for at least somewhat different underlying reasons. It's also true that this hump is acquired by only SOME (maybe only FEW?) users of AZT. In my case, and I believe this is typical of MSL, the central lipomas THEMSELVES are not especially painful or problematic, except where they press on blood or air passages Although I do understand that the Dercum's variety (not mine) can be painful. And I haven't noticed any major fluctuation in size, and no linkage between size and pain level. Except that, once they seriously start to grow, most people just get gradually bigger and more of the central lipomas. And they re-grow FAST (like in a couple of weeks!) after excision. In my case, I've had for about ten years a strange small-ish bump deep inside, ATTACHED on the back of my spine, at the base of my neck or even a bit lower, almost between my shoulder blades. Even before I began to grow any deep big unencapsulated lipomas. Only in the last few years did this bump begin to gradually grow, along with the more obvious deep SOFTER lipomas in the same vicinity (and the latter also up the back of my neck to the back of my head, and out onto the tops of my shoulders). Eventually the deep rather hard bump was about 4 inches in diameter. After two surgeries, I still have some of this bump, but the whole area of softer lipomas has regrown rapidly, leaving me looking quite a lot like the AZT-induced version. All that said, , I would ask myself: Have you had or now have other lipomas? How big is the lump? Have you had this lump a long time and has it grown only gradually, like over the course of at least a year? Do you have fatty liver? What exactly do you know of your particular mito disease? As for , without knowing more, it seems as if his AZT exposure was minimal, and therefore probably not responsible for any mito disease. But who knows, perhaps it's very badly additive, on top of pre-existing mito? Hope the above helps, sorry for the length. I feel REAL uncomfortable speculating on all this where it might lead people to assume something about themselves. But I feel that I have to do it, because there is so little coherent correlated published data, and doctors are sometimes so unhelpful and unknowledgeable. Hopefully everyone in this group is VERY aware on this issue. The above is just my single data point, and my too-poor understanding of a very complex subject. I'm not a doctor, etc. Regards Steve D. Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:02:30 -0500 Subject: Re: about AZT and mito Steve do you mean that big lump/ bump at the base of the neck? That is related to mito??? I didn't know that. Does yours get smaller and larger as your pain level changes? Is there anything to do to get rid of it? I hate it. Smiles, Laurie Fitzgerald...I have a question > > > > Hey Laurie, > > > > What do you know about AZT, the med that was used for Aids patients, and > mito disorders. To compound my problems, in 1998 while on vacation in Texas > I helped a lady with HIV and she got sick on my leg. I went to the Hospital > and they put me on AZT as a possible exposure. It really threw me for a > loop, the AZT did. My family Doctor ruled it out as an exposure, but I was > on the medicine for a week...and as I get to thinking that my cramping and > stuff got a lot worse after this incident. > > > > I have read something tonight that says that AZT can deplete mtDNA faster > and cause mito. > > > > If you have any more info I would greatly appreciate it. > > > > McCombs > > 2 Cor 1:3-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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