Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 I've just signed on with the group and I'm an undiagnosed 44-year-old male that until about 1-½ years ago was in good health other than being a bit overweight with high blood pressure. I had been keeping in pretty good shape with a regular exercise program of running and weight training to keep in form for my swing dance hobby. My first sign of trouble was minor numbness/tingling of the left hand. Over time the sensory sensations started to spread to both hands and arms as well as my face and legs. Doctors initially suspected MS and I've been through multiple MRI's, nerve conduction and evoked potentials test which have all been negative. My 1st neurologist was suggesting counseling since he could find nothing wrong until one day a random blood test showed a CK reading of 2,600. I was put on prednisone therapy (which had no effect) and referred to a rheumatologist. Blood tests for every imaginable malady were conducted and Lupus, Myositus, Lyme disease as well as some obscure tropical diseases given my frequent travel to South America were all ruled out. The reumatologist felt I might have a metabolic condition and referred me back to my neurologist who pretty much gave up trying to figure out the problem. I went to another neurologist for a second opinion. Initially he suspected MS that had somehow been missed and he ran a whole suite of tests and came up negative for everything. He was concerned by the continued progression of symptoms and advised me to seek advanced diagnostic testing at UCLA. UCLA ran repeat tests for nerve conduction, evoked potentials as well as every blood test that has ever been conceived. Everything came back normal. I was then sent off for neurophysiolgy testing and finally got some abnormal readings when 5 minutes into the stress test, my CK level shot up from a pretest level of 90 to over 550. My ammonia levels also went from 30 to 111, which the doctor said was to high. My next step is a muscle biopsy but the doctors are perplexed by my extensive peripheral nerve symptoms. CIDP was mentioned as a possibility but the lack of evidence from all the neurological tests seems to have them leaning to some sort of a metabolic/mitochondral condition. My primary symptoms are detailed as follows: Peripheral numbness/tingling of the face, hands, arms and feet (bilateral). These sensations continue to worsen but still remain mostly a nuisance of being a strange feeling. Not painful or limiting dexterity. Abdominal sensations – usually a benign odd feeling but they have intensified to where some discomfort occurs on occasion. Bowel irregularity is also occurring periodically - usually diarrhea but it occasionally feels like my system is blocking up/slowing down. Fatigue – always somewhat tired and best described as just not " feeling good " . I'm not so bad that I'm missing work but I definitely notice a difference in how I feel. Leg spasms/cramps when exercising Drooping/odd feeling in my right eye. It sort of feels like a tingling feeling and the eyelid feels like it's droopy/hard to keep open. Worsens if I look up without moving my head. This comes on quickly and it lasts for up to a couple of hours at most and then fades away. Again, no apparent trigger to when this occurs. Muscle twitching – mostly with the legs and arms and occasionally on my back. Yesterday I had my neck twitching for the first time. This usually only seems to happen when I'm sitting still or lying down. You can actually see the muscle moving. This is not painful and it generally stops as soon as I start moving. Weakness starting to worsen – particularly in right leg. Tend to stumble and have a bit of a limp when walking. I've been trying to ignore things as best I can and keep active but whatever is going on only continues to progress. The doctors seem perplexed by the mixed symptoms and I'm finding that I can't maintain anywhere near my past level of activity. I'm curious to see whether this smorgasbord of symptoms is consistent with a mito problem. Hopefully the muscle biopsy will provide some direction. Until then, I remain in diagnostic no mans land. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Bob, Welcome to the site. I am rather new here myself. There are many concerned and knowledgeable people here. I hope you will get some helpful information. I am sorry you are having such a hard time getting a diagnosis and treatment. Wow. You have been through a lot. I just have a few thoughts for you, and they are not earth-shaking. I am sure others will add their information. First, I do not have neurological symptoms such as you describe. My main problem is extreme muscle weakness, (eveything bilateral) crushing fatigue that comes and goes, and mental sluggishness at times. Minor neurological shooting pains sometimes, but those are manageable. I am not sure at all about how it matches others' mito symptoms. We are all so different. Get some info about the muscle biopsy. I am not an authority, but I know if it is not done correctly, the likelihood of getting useful information is reduced. It sounds like you have had an extensive workup. My thought is, keep persisting. Have they checked in the area of toxic exposure at all? It is not popular thing to check for, in my experience. Also, your trips to South America. Seems like there could be some exotic thing they are missing about that. Thoroughly check side effects of meds you are on. Did anything change in your life when the symptoms started? (physically, I mean...different house, job, etc, where you might be exposed to toxic chemicals, or pesticides, or mold, for example) Mito damage due to toxins and drugs is not played up in the mito literature, but it does exist. Keep digging. You probably have checked the MDA and UMDF sites. They have a ton of useful information. I wish i could be more helpful. Stay tuned into this site. I have found the most useful information and good references here. And very caring people. Regards Sunny > > > I've just signed on with the group and I'm an undiagnosed 44-year-old > male that until about 1-½ years ago was in good health other than > being a bit overweight with high blood pressure. I had been keeping > in pretty good shape with a regular exercise program of running and > weight training to keep in form for my swing dance hobby. > > My first sign of trouble was minor numbness/tingling of the left > hand. Over time the sensory sensations started to spread to both > hands and arms as well as my face and legs. Doctors initially > suspected MS and I've been through multiple MRI's, nerve conduction > and evoked potentials test which have all been negative. > > My 1st neurologist was suggesting counseling since he could find > nothing wrong until one day a random blood test showed a CK reading > of 2,600. I was put on prednisone therapy (which had no effect) and > referred to a rheumatologist. > > Blood tests for every imaginable malady were conducted and Lupus, > Myositus, Lyme disease as well as some obscure tropical diseases > given my frequent travel to South America were all ruled out. The > reumatologist felt I might have a metabolic condition and referred me > back to my neurologist who pretty much gave up trying to figure out > the problem. > > I went to another neurologist for a second opinion. Initially he > suspected MS that had somehow been missed and he ran a whole suite of > tests and came up negative for everything. He was concerned by the > continued progression of symptoms and advised me to seek advanced > diagnostic testing at UCLA. > > UCLA ran repeat tests for nerve conduction, evoked potentials as well > as every blood test that has ever been conceived. Everything came > back normal. I was then sent off for neurophysiolgy testing and > finally got some abnormal readings when 5 minutes into the stress > test, my CK level shot up from a pretest level of 90 to over 550. My > ammonia levels also went from 30 to 111, which the doctor said was to > high. > > My next step is a muscle biopsy but the doctors are perplexed by my > extensive peripheral nerve symptoms. CIDP was mentioned as a > possibility but the lack of evidence from all the neurological tests > seems to have them leaning to some sort of a metabolic/mitochondral > condition. > > My primary symptoms are detailed as follows: > > Peripheral numbness/tingling of the face, hands, arms and feet > (bilateral). These sensations continue to worsen but still remain > mostly a nuisance of being a strange feeling. Not painful or > limiting dexterity. > > Abdominal sensations – usually a benign odd feeling but they have > intensified to where some discomfort occurs on occasion. Bowel > irregularity is also occurring periodically - usually diarrhea but it > occasionally feels like my system is blocking up/slowing down. > > Fatigue – always somewhat tired and best described as just > not " feeling good " . I'm not so bad that I'm missing work but I > definitely notice a difference in how I feel. > > Leg spasms/cramps when exercising > > Drooping/odd feeling in my right eye. It sort of feels like a > tingling feeling and the eyelid feels like it's droopy/hard to keep > open. Worsens if I look up without moving my head. This comes on > quickly and it lasts for up to a couple of hours at most and then > fades away. Again, no apparent trigger to when this occurs. > > Muscle twitching – mostly with the legs and arms and occasionally on > my back. Yesterday I had my neck twitching for the first time. This > usually only seems to happen when I'm sitting still or lying down. > You can actually see the muscle moving. This is not painful and it > generally stops as soon as I start moving. > > Weakness starting to worsen – particularly in right leg. Tend to > stumble and have a bit of a limp when walking. > > I've been trying to ignore things as best I can and keep active but > whatever is going on only continues to progress. The doctors seem > perplexed by the mixed symptoms and I'm finding that I can't maintain > anywhere near my past level of activity. > > I'm curious to see whether this smorgasbord of symptoms is consistent > with a mito problem. Hopefully the muscle biopsy will provide some > direction. Until then, I remain in diagnostic no mans land. > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements contained > herein are not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of > this e mail is entirely responsible for its content. List members are > reminded of their responsibility to evaluate the content of the > postings and consult with their physicians regarding changes in their > own treatment. > > Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who sends > one is automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of > the attack. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Bob, I do not know alot about mito but my sister was diagnossed in 1996, my mother probably had it, and myself was diagnosed in 1997 and my son in 2003. We all have MELAS--Mitochondrial Encephalytis, Lactic Acid, Stroke or Seizure like events. My sister had muscle weakness and seizures. First of all--my son and I have mild symptoms all though his constipation is bad when not taking Qgel. I can definitely tell the difference when not taking Qgel (Co Q10) and Carnitor. My son has minor dismotibility that gets very, very bad requiring a hospital visit if he does not take the Carniqgel for a few days. He is 11 and 105 lbs now. My main problem is the tingling in the arms and feet. The top of my left foot would always feel like my shoe was tied too tight--even with nothing on. I also get little jerks like you describe or a dull sudden painlike sensation in my legs and feet even when sitting at my desk at work. I also have diabetes that my blood sugar goes up when I exercise--the opposite of normal diabetics. The minor numbness/tingling you describe may also be caused by high blood sugar. In my case the mito doc who diagnosed me said you will really never know if the symptoms are from MELAS or Diabetes. I also get tired very easily and have nerve damage to my eyes and slight hearing loss. I do not get the drooping eye but I believe others on the list have mentioned that. I do know that with mito there are over 40 " varieties " that are known and many that are unknown and a muscle biopsy may or may not tell the answer. Our diagnoses were made with blood testing. The doctor had a pretty good idea what he was looking for and the tests came back positive. If I were you I would look more into the mito. There is no real cure other than megadoses of vitamins on the " vitamin cocktail " but at least you will have relief from some syptoms--mainly fatique and maybe dismotbility. I know one person once mentioned that she did not feel better until she got the CoQ10 or Qgel dosage very high and balanced with the Carnitor so it may take some experimenting so you need to consult a doctor. When I talked to the doc in Milwaukee to get a prescription for the Qgel to fight the insurance company I had told him I upped the CoQ10 from his original prescription in 1999 because I had gained 30 lbs and that Dr Cohen at Cleveland Clinic's recommended list said 5-10 times your body weight in kilos. He said that it is not based on body weight, the standard adult dosage is 125 mg twice a day. I know some people on the list take like over 500 mg and some I think over 1000 mg per day so you will want to consult your doctor. Myself, for my son and me I am sticking with 180 mg or three 30 mg Qgel because the recommended dosage for me at 150 lbs would be like 340 mg at 5 times my body weight. That is what is published and many other " mito experts " are saying. My doc knows alot about it but is not one of the " experts " in the country. You do not need a prescription for the CoQ10. Qgel is a brand name that is supposed to be faster asborbed than others and has orphan drug status but not marketing approval for the insurance companies to pay for it. My did for a while and now changed administrators and I am fighting again. Carnitor is a prescription form of l-carnitine that is regulated. Some companies such as epic4health and I think Swanson Vitamins sell carnitine capsules and there is carnitine in Carniqgel. And there are many l-carnitine products at the health food stores. Be sure to get l-carnitine, there is another form I forget what but there is a warning on like web md or something about it actually depleteing carnitine in the body. Before I forget--one of the biggest things that Dr Tick said was get your lactic acid/pyruvic acid checked. the ratio can be a big indicator of how the disease is progressing. When my sister went into a coma in 1996 (did it in 1994 for 4 days also), one of the things that was noted that her lactic acid level was sky high. I had testing done in 1997 to determine my lactic acid level. While mine was high in both a spinal tap and blood draw it was no where near as high as hers. In 1996 she was given an experimental medicine called DCA which she responded to that lowers lactic acid. It is still available today but not widely prescribed as it also has side effects. When my son had a small stroke last November where he was talking like a baby and could not remember how to play his gameboy, or his cats names Dr Tick suggested if that kept happening we may want to consider it and called out to the maker in Oregon to get pricing. He has a patient in Milwaukee on it. Anyway, my lactic acid is always high. Different labs use different measuring scales but one of my latest results was the lactic acid was 56, the normal range high was like 19. Just some things to think about--I do not know very much compared to many others on this list that can tell you much, much more. I am sure a lot more of them will be responding--they may be away or just in a " crash " --that is when you are very tired and do not feel like doing anything--cannot even drag yourself out of bed. Not a technical term but one invented by people with mito. Janet Sample New Member - Sorry, Long Post I've just signed on with the group and I'm an undiagnosed 44-year-old male that until about 1-½ years ago was in good health other than being a bit overweight with high blood pressure. I had been keeping in pretty good shape with a regular exercise program of running and weight training to keep in form for my swing dance hobby. My first sign of trouble was minor numbness/tingling of the left hand. Over time the sensory sensations started to spread to both hands and arms as well as my face and legs. Doctors initially suspected MS and I've been through multiple MRI's, nerve conduction and evoked potentials test which have all been negative. My 1st neurologist was suggesting counseling since he could find nothing wrong until one day a random blood test showed a CK reading of 2,600. I was put on prednisone therapy (which had no effect) and referred to a rheumatologist. Blood tests for every imaginable malady were conducted and Lupus, Myositus, Lyme disease as well as some obscure tropical diseases given my frequent travel to South America were all ruled out. The reumatologist felt I might have a metabolic condition and referred me back to my neurologist who pretty much gave up trying to figure out the problem. I went to another neurologist for a second opinion. Initially he suspected MS that had somehow been missed and he ran a whole suite of tests and came up negative for everything. He was concerned by the continued progression of symptoms and advised me to seek advanced diagnostic testing at UCLA. UCLA ran repeat tests for nerve conduction, evoked potentials as well as every blood test that has ever been conceived. Everything came back normal. I was then sent off for neurophysiolgy testing and finally got some abnormal readings when 5 minutes into the stress test, my CK level shot up from a pretest level of 90 to over 550. My ammonia levels also went from 30 to 111, which the doctor said was to high. My next step is a muscle biopsy but the doctors are perplexed by my extensive peripheral nerve symptoms. CIDP was mentioned as a possibility but the lack of evidence from all the neurological tests seems to have them leaning to some sort of a metabolic/mitochondral condition. My primary symptoms are detailed as follows: Peripheral numbness/tingling of the face, hands, arms and feet (bilateral). These sensations continue to worsen but still remain mostly a nuisance of being a strange feeling. Not painful or limiting dexterity. Abdominal sensations - usually a benign odd feeling but they have intensified to where some discomfort occurs on occasion. Bowel irregularity is also occurring periodically - usually diarrhea but it occasionally feels like my system is blocking up/slowing down. Fatigue - always somewhat tired and best described as just not " feeling good " . I'm not so bad that I'm missing work but I definitely notice a difference in how I feel. Leg spasms/cramps when exercising Drooping/odd feeling in my right eye. It sort of feels like a tingling feeling and the eyelid feels like it's droopy/hard to keep open. Worsens if I look up without moving my head. This comes on quickly and it lasts for up to a couple of hours at most and then fades away. Again, no apparent trigger to when this occurs. Muscle twitching - mostly with the legs and arms and occasionally on my back. Yesterday I had my neck twitching for the first time. This usually only seems to happen when I'm sitting still or lying down. You can actually see the muscle moving. This is not painful and it generally stops as soon as I start moving. Weakness starting to worsen - particularly in right leg. Tend to stumble and have a bit of a limp when walking. I've been trying to ignore things as best I can and keep active but whatever is going on only continues to progress. The doctors seem perplexed by the mixed symptoms and I'm finding that I can't maintain anywhere near my past level of activity. I'm curious to see whether this smorgasbord of symptoms is consistent with a mito problem. Hopefully the muscle biopsy will provide some direction. Until then, I remain in diagnostic no mans land. Bob Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements contained herein are not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of this e mail is entirely responsible for its content. List members are reminded of their responsibility to evaluate the content of the postings and consult with their physicians regarding changes in their own treatment. Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who sends one is automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of the attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Bob, I do not know alot about mito but my sister was diagnossed in 1996, my mother probably had it, and myself was diagnosed in 1997 and my son in 2003. We all have MELAS--Mitochondrial Encephalytis, Lactic Acid, Stroke or Seizure like events. My sister had muscle weakness and seizures. First of all--my son and I have mild symptoms all though his constipation is bad when not taking Qgel. I can definitely tell the difference when not taking Qgel (Co Q10) and Carnitor. My son has minor dismotibility that gets very, very bad requiring a hospital visit if he does not take the Carniqgel for a few days. He is 11 and 105 lbs now. My main problem is the tingling in the arms and feet. The top of my left foot would always feel like my shoe was tied too tight--even with nothing on. I also get little jerks like you describe or a dull sudden painlike sensation in my legs and feet even when sitting at my desk at work. I also have diabetes that my blood sugar goes up when I exercise--the opposite of normal diabetics. The minor numbness/tingling you describe may also be caused by high blood sugar. In my case the mito doc who diagnosed me said you will really never know if the symptoms are from MELAS or Diabetes. I also get tired very easily and have nerve damage to my eyes and slight hearing loss. I do not get the drooping eye but I believe others on the list have mentioned that. I do know that with mito there are over 40 " varieties " that are known and many that are unknown and a muscle biopsy may or may not tell the answer. Our diagnoses were made with blood testing. The doctor had a pretty good idea what he was looking for and the tests came back positive. If I were you I would look more into the mito. There is no real cure other than megadoses of vitamins on the " vitamin cocktail " but at least you will have relief from some syptoms--mainly fatique and maybe dismotbility. I know one person once mentioned that she did not feel better until she got the CoQ10 or Qgel dosage very high and balanced with the Carnitor so it may take some experimenting so you need to consult a doctor. When I talked to the doc in Milwaukee to get a prescription for the Qgel to fight the insurance company I had told him I upped the CoQ10 from his original prescription in 1999 because I had gained 30 lbs and that Dr Cohen at Cleveland Clinic's recommended list said 5-10 times your body weight in kilos. He said that it is not based on body weight, the standard adult dosage is 125 mg twice a day. I know some people on the list take like over 500 mg and some I think over 1000 mg per day so you will want to consult your doctor. Myself, for my son and me I am sticking with 180 mg or three 30 mg Qgel because the recommended dosage for me at 150 lbs would be like 340 mg at 5 times my body weight. That is what is published and many other " mito experts " are saying. My doc knows alot about it but is not one of the " experts " in the country. You do not need a prescription for the CoQ10. Qgel is a brand name that is supposed to be faster asborbed than others and has orphan drug status but not marketing approval for the insurance companies to pay for it. My did for a while and now changed administrators and I am fighting again. Carnitor is a prescription form of l-carnitine that is regulated. Some companies such as epic4health and I think Swanson Vitamins sell carnitine capsules and there is carnitine in Carniqgel. And there are many l-carnitine products at the health food stores. Be sure to get l-carnitine, there is another form I forget what but there is a warning on like web md or something about it actually depleteing carnitine in the body. Before I forget--one of the biggest things that Dr Tick said was get your lactic acid/pyruvic acid checked. the ratio can be a big indicator of how the disease is progressing. When my sister went into a coma in 1996 (did it in 1994 for 4 days also), one of the things that was noted that her lactic acid level was sky high. I had testing done in 1997 to determine my lactic acid level. While mine was high in both a spinal tap and blood draw it was no where near as high as hers. In 1996 she was given an experimental medicine called DCA which she responded to that lowers lactic acid. It is still available today but not widely prescribed as it also has side effects. When my son had a small stroke last November where he was talking like a baby and could not remember how to play his gameboy, or his cats names Dr Tick suggested if that kept happening we may want to consider it and called out to the maker in Oregon to get pricing. He has a patient in Milwaukee on it. Anyway, my lactic acid is always high. Different labs use different measuring scales but one of my latest results was the lactic acid was 56, the normal range high was like 19. Just some things to think about--I do not know very much compared to many others on this list that can tell you much, much more. I am sure a lot more of them will be responding--they may be away or just in a " crash " --that is when you are very tired and do not feel like doing anything--cannot even drag yourself out of bed. Not a technical term but one invented by people with mito. Janet Sample New Member - Sorry, Long Post I've just signed on with the group and I'm an undiagnosed 44-year-old male that until about 1-½ years ago was in good health other than being a bit overweight with high blood pressure. I had been keeping in pretty good shape with a regular exercise program of running and weight training to keep in form for my swing dance hobby. My first sign of trouble was minor numbness/tingling of the left hand. Over time the sensory sensations started to spread to both hands and arms as well as my face and legs. Doctors initially suspected MS and I've been through multiple MRI's, nerve conduction and evoked potentials test which have all been negative. My 1st neurologist was suggesting counseling since he could find nothing wrong until one day a random blood test showed a CK reading of 2,600. I was put on prednisone therapy (which had no effect) and referred to a rheumatologist. Blood tests for every imaginable malady were conducted and Lupus, Myositus, Lyme disease as well as some obscure tropical diseases given my frequent travel to South America were all ruled out. The reumatologist felt I might have a metabolic condition and referred me back to my neurologist who pretty much gave up trying to figure out the problem. I went to another neurologist for a second opinion. Initially he suspected MS that had somehow been missed and he ran a whole suite of tests and came up negative for everything. He was concerned by the continued progression of symptoms and advised me to seek advanced diagnostic testing at UCLA. UCLA ran repeat tests for nerve conduction, evoked potentials as well as every blood test that has ever been conceived. Everything came back normal. I was then sent off for neurophysiolgy testing and finally got some abnormal readings when 5 minutes into the stress test, my CK level shot up from a pretest level of 90 to over 550. My ammonia levels also went from 30 to 111, which the doctor said was to high. My next step is a muscle biopsy but the doctors are perplexed by my extensive peripheral nerve symptoms. CIDP was mentioned as a possibility but the lack of evidence from all the neurological tests seems to have them leaning to some sort of a metabolic/mitochondral condition. My primary symptoms are detailed as follows: Peripheral numbness/tingling of the face, hands, arms and feet (bilateral). These sensations continue to worsen but still remain mostly a nuisance of being a strange feeling. Not painful or limiting dexterity. Abdominal sensations - usually a benign odd feeling but they have intensified to where some discomfort occurs on occasion. Bowel irregularity is also occurring periodically - usually diarrhea but it occasionally feels like my system is blocking up/slowing down. Fatigue - always somewhat tired and best described as just not " feeling good " . I'm not so bad that I'm missing work but I definitely notice a difference in how I feel. Leg spasms/cramps when exercising Drooping/odd feeling in my right eye. It sort of feels like a tingling feeling and the eyelid feels like it's droopy/hard to keep open. Worsens if I look up without moving my head. This comes on quickly and it lasts for up to a couple of hours at most and then fades away. Again, no apparent trigger to when this occurs. Muscle twitching - mostly with the legs and arms and occasionally on my back. Yesterday I had my neck twitching for the first time. This usually only seems to happen when I'm sitting still or lying down. You can actually see the muscle moving. This is not painful and it generally stops as soon as I start moving. Weakness starting to worsen - particularly in right leg. Tend to stumble and have a bit of a limp when walking. I've been trying to ignore things as best I can and keep active but whatever is going on only continues to progress. The doctors seem perplexed by the mixed symptoms and I'm finding that I can't maintain anywhere near my past level of activity. I'm curious to see whether this smorgasbord of symptoms is consistent with a mito problem. Hopefully the muscle biopsy will provide some direction. Until then, I remain in diagnostic no mans land. Bob Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements contained herein are not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of this e mail is entirely responsible for its content. List members are reminded of their responsibility to evaluate the content of the postings and consult with their physicians regarding changes in their own treatment. Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who sends one is automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of the attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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