Guest guest Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Hi Everyone, I have a question: Since Lactate dehydrogenase converts pyruvate to lactate in the final step of the glycolytic pathway, then why is my Pyruvate always lower than or just at the beginning of the the numbers listed in the " Normal Range " for that blood test?? I always( every time I have the test done) have low levels or levels below the normal range of Pyruvate, but my Lactate is always High. It hasn't been normal or even near the normal range in years. It seems like my Lactate Dehydrogenase is converting too much of my pyruvate to lactate, and not saving enough of the pyruvate. Any thoughts, ideas, or anyone know what is happening here? Thanks in advance!! Thanks Ann-Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Ann Marie, we have the exact same problem and I have always wondered about that and was even planning on asking at one of hte next mito chats. Our alanine is very high and lactate is high or normal( fluctuates ) but Pyruvate is always very low. My sons last one was 0.1. I am very curious..do you have a OXPHOS defect also? maybe laurie is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Ann-Marie This just a guess, but I wonder if it makes a difference in your activity level and point of defect (complex I, or II and so on). Just a guess! laurie > > Reply-To: > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:10:27 -0400 > To: > > Subject: Low Pyruvate levels > > Hi Everyone, > > I have a question: > > Since Lactate dehydrogenase converts pyruvate to lactate in the final step of > the glycolytic pathway, then why is my > Pyruvate always lower than or just at the beginning of the the numbers listed > in the " Normal Range " for that blood test?? > > I always( every time I have the test done) have low levels or levels below the > normal range of Pyruvate, but my Lactate is always High. It hasn't been normal > or even near the normal range in years. > > It seems like my Lactate Dehydrogenase is converting too much of my pyruvate > to lactate, and not saving enough of the pyruvate. > > Any thoughts, ideas, or anyone know what is happening here? Thanks in > advance!! > > Thanks > Ann-Marie > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 I have essentially a complete loss of Complex I activity (I tested 0 activity when compared to 100 for normal my age, 50 for normal older people). I have rarely (once or twice) had high lactate levels, but have always had low pyruvate. Pyruvate is actually sold as a (costly) supplement, but I haven't tried it. A somewhat related question - is an OXPHOS defect specifically in one of the 5 mitochondrial complexes, or is there a more or less specific definition? What mitochondrial diseases are not considered OXPHOS? I know that OXPHOS is oxidative phosphorylation, so I guess maybe something that is not OXPHOS happens before or after oxidative phosphorylation (but still in mitochondria)? Take care, RH > Ann Marie, > we have the exact same problem and I have always wondered about that and was > even planning on asking at one of hte next mito chats. Our alanine is very > high and lactate is high or normal( fluctuates ) but Pyruvate is always very > low. My sons last one was 0.1. > I am very curious..do you have a OXPHOS defect also? maybe laurie is right. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 > Pyruvate is actually sold as a (costly) supplement, but I haven't > tried it. I haven't tried it, but there are some forms of creatine that contain pyruvate. > A somewhat related question - is an OXPHOS defect specifically in one > of the 5 mitochondrial complexes, or is there a more or less specific > definition? What mitochondrial diseases are not considered OXPHOS? > > I know that OXPHOS is oxidative phosphorylation, so I guess maybe > something that is not OXPHOS happens before or after oxidative > phosphorylation (but still in mitochondria)? My understanding is that OXPHOS = electron transport chain (ETC) = mitochondrial respiratory chain = complexes I, II, III, IV, V. This is one of several metabolic cycles that are involved in mitochondrial metabolism. So yes, an OXPHOS defect refers to a defect in one of the five complexes. Beta oxidation is another metabolic cycle that is part of mitochondrial metabolism. I know there are others, but haven't looked at the diagrams recently, so will let someone else name them all. Biochemistry was never my favorite hobby. Take care, Barbara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 From what I understand (this may be flawed), that the defects can be in the transport genes or other places which help to get the fuel across the mitochondrial membrane. laurie > > Reply-To: > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:05:45 -0000 > To: > Subject: Re: Low Pyruvate levels > > > > > >> Pyruvate is actually sold as a (costly) supplement, but I haven't >> tried it. > > I haven't tried it, but there are some forms of creatine that > contain pyruvate. > > >> A somewhat related question - is an OXPHOS defect specifically in > one >> of the 5 mitochondrial complexes, or is there a more or less > specific >> definition? What mitochondrial diseases are not considered OXPHOS? >> >> I know that OXPHOS is oxidative phosphorylation, so I guess maybe >> something that is not OXPHOS happens before or after oxidative >> phosphorylation (but still in mitochondria)? > > > My understanding is that OXPHOS = electron transport chain (ETC) = > mitochondrial respiratory chain = complexes I, II, III, IV, V. This > is one of several metabolic cycles that are involved in > mitochondrial metabolism. So yes, an OXPHOS defect refers to a > defect in one of the five complexes. > > Beta oxidation is another metabolic cycle that is part of > mitochondrial metabolism. I know there are others, but haven't > looked at the diagrams recently, so will let someone else name them > all. Biochemistry was never my favorite hobby. > > Take care, > Barbara > > > > > > > Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements contained herein > are not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of this e mail is > entirely responsible for its content. List members are reminded of their > responsibility to evaluate the content of the postings and consult with their > physicians regarding changes in their own treatment. > > Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who sends one is > automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of the attack. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 From what I understand (this may be flawed), that the defects can be in the transport genes or other places which help to get the fuel across the mitochondrial membrane. laurie > > Reply-To: > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:05:45 -0000 > To: > Subject: Re: Low Pyruvate levels > > > > > >> Pyruvate is actually sold as a (costly) supplement, but I haven't >> tried it. > > I haven't tried it, but there are some forms of creatine that > contain pyruvate. > > >> A somewhat related question - is an OXPHOS defect specifically in > one >> of the 5 mitochondrial complexes, or is there a more or less > specific >> definition? What mitochondrial diseases are not considered OXPHOS? >> >> I know that OXPHOS is oxidative phosphorylation, so I guess maybe >> something that is not OXPHOS happens before or after oxidative >> phosphorylation (but still in mitochondria)? > > > My understanding is that OXPHOS = electron transport chain (ETC) = > mitochondrial respiratory chain = complexes I, II, III, IV, V. This > is one of several metabolic cycles that are involved in > mitochondrial metabolism. So yes, an OXPHOS defect refers to a > defect in one of the five complexes. > > Beta oxidation is another metabolic cycle that is part of > mitochondrial metabolism. I know there are others, but haven't > looked at the diagrams recently, so will let someone else name them > all. Biochemistry was never my favorite hobby. > > Take care, > Barbara > > > > > > > Medical advice, information, opinions, data and statements contained herein > are not necessarily those of the list moderators. The author of this e mail is > entirely responsible for its content. List members are reminded of their > responsibility to evaluate the content of the postings and consult with their > physicians regarding changes in their own treatment. > > Personal attacks are not permitted on the list and anyone who sends one is > automatically moderated or removed depending on the severity of the attack. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Ann-Marie, mine is complex II and III. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Ann-Marie, mine is complex II and III. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Hi Laurie, Thank You for your * Guess* !! This is what I thought, but wasn't exactly sure. Sometimes all these medical transcripts and Pub Med articles make my brain go in circles. Funny, I used to be able to understand and break things down but as the years go on with this Mito, it just gets harder and harder for me. I guess that means that I will have to go and have another muscle biopsy done to check for defects in the Complex's. Oh fun!! Thanks Ann-Marie Low Pyruvate levels > > Hi Everyone, > > I have a question: > > Since Lactate dehydrogenase converts pyruvate to lactate in the final step of > the glycolytic pathway, then why is my > Pyruvate always lower than or just at the beginning of the the numbers listed > in the " Normal Range " for that blood test?? > > I always( every time I have the test done) have low levels or levels below the > normal range of Pyruvate, but my Lactate is always High. It hasn't been normal > or even near the normal range in years. > > It seems like my Lactate Dehydrogenase is converting too much of my pyruvate > to lactate, and not saving enough of the pyruvate. > > Any thoughts, ideas, or anyone know what is happening here? Thanks in > advance!! > > Thanks > Ann-Marie > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Hi Laurie, Thank You for your * Guess* !! This is what I thought, but wasn't exactly sure. Sometimes all these medical transcripts and Pub Med articles make my brain go in circles. Funny, I used to be able to understand and break things down but as the years go on with this Mito, it just gets harder and harder for me. I guess that means that I will have to go and have another muscle biopsy done to check for defects in the Complex's. Oh fun!! Thanks Ann-Marie Low Pyruvate levels > > Hi Everyone, > > I have a question: > > Since Lactate dehydrogenase converts pyruvate to lactate in the final step of > the glycolytic pathway, then why is my > Pyruvate always lower than or just at the beginning of the the numbers listed > in the " Normal Range " for that blood test?? > > I always( every time I have the test done) have low levels or levels below the > normal range of Pyruvate, but my Lactate is always High. It hasn't been normal > or even near the normal range in years. > > It seems like my Lactate Dehydrogenase is converting too much of my pyruvate > to lactate, and not saving enough of the pyruvate. > > Any thoughts, ideas, or anyone know what is happening here? Thanks in > advance!! > > Thanks > Ann-Marie > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Hi , Thanks for your answer. What is your diagnosis? I am not sure if I have a OXPHOS defect, but it is being suggested as a possibility. Do you have an OXPHOS defect? If so which one? Ann-Marie Re: Low Pyruvate levels Ann Marie, we have the exact same problem and I have always wondered about that and was even planning on asking at one of hte next mito chats. Our alanine is very high and lactate is high or normal( fluctuates ) but Pyruvate is always very low. My sons last one was 0.1. I am very curious..do you have a OXPHOS defect also? maybe laurie is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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