Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 I would still like my questions answered also: How many children have used this system? Of the X number of children he's used this on, how many were clubfooted? Were these positional or congenital club feet? And what other types of deformities does this " cure all " fix? You're right, I'd take six weeks of casts any day over four months of something else. I disagree with Chad's assessment that casting causing emotional problems to either child or parent. This whole thing seems like it hasn't been though out very well. s. Re: Alternative Conservative Treatment Chad, You need to realize that many of us had been with prior methods of treatment before finding out about the Ponseti method. For us, the use of the Ponseti method was simple in that our sons feet were then correctly positioned in 2 weeks, then with a 3 week tenotomy cast. I believe that the initial correction with the Ponseti method is much quicker than the 4 months you indicate your orthosis takes. As indicated, we may be a bit more willing to consider an orthosis that we have not seen and that has no real documented long term trackrecord if you would submit it to Dr. Ponseti for his consideration as a retention devise first. I think that Dr. Ponseti would be glad to review your orthosis and listen to your explanation as to why it would work. We are willing to consider that new possibilities may exist for methods of retention and new methods of treatment, but we are not willing to encourage new parents to be part of what at this point could be considered to be somewhat part of an " experiment " . When you are willing to provide us with photo's of your orthosis and send one to Dr. Ponseti for him to examine and give his opinion, we will be more open to discuss it without the wariness that we now have. Also, in an earlier message, I had asked you some questions that you had not answered. I would like to ask them again. Since your group is located in Portland, Maine; do you have a group of doctors there or elsewhere who are utilizing your method. Or is your treatment done completely by orthotists without utilizing a doctor? Can you give us the names and contact information for those doctors? From the POSNA website which lists most but not all of the Ped Orthos in the U.S., there are 3 ped orthos in Bangor, Maine which is 125 miles North of you, 3 in Concord N.H. (100 miles southwest) and 25 ped orthos in Boston which is also 100 miles south. You had mentioned that you had 3 doctors who are utilizing this modification of the Ponseti method. Are they in one of these groups? http://www.posna.org/index Can you provide us with information on the studies that have been done with your method, the rates of short and long term relapses and longer term outcomes? Is there anything published yet by doctors that we can read on the internet or get elsewhere? You mentioned that the DKAFO is low cost. Can you tell us what the costs of the treatment and DKAFO's would be in your system? Thanks for the information. and (3-17-99) > We wanted to say thank you for all the responses from you and your > group. It was wonderful hearing from so many obviously concerned > and proactive people. It is apparent from the tone of many of the > responses that there is both a certain amount of disbelief about > our " claims " and that Dr. Ponseti has a very strong following in > your group. While the Ponseti method is certainly an outstanding > advancement over earlier treatments, our orthosis represents a new > direction in the treatment of clubfoot and ITT that builds on his > work and we have dozens and dozens of parents who will tell you that > the results have exceeded all expectations. > > The orthosis that we have developed is the direct result of our > frustration with the inadequacies of traditional bracing and > surgical options. It sounds like we all agree that neither approach > offers ideal outcomes. Once the original concept was conceived we > worked for two years with a wide range of infants and young children > to develop and refine an orthosis that would combine the best > features of the stretching and casting techniques currently in use > while avoiding the pitfalls and discomfort of traditional bracing > (or the pain and deformities associated with surgery). Our goal was > to develop an orthosis that would ultimately replace surgery for > many children and provide a low cost alternative to serial casting > and subsequent orthotic management. We are running clinical trials > on the product of this research. Success, parent satisfaction and > patient compliance have been phenomenal and we have high hopes that > we may ultimately be able to offer an alternative to parents and > orthopedists that is actually an improvement over current > protocols. > > Although the specific design of the orthosis must remain proprietary > at this time (while awaiting patent protection) I wanted to provide > responses to some of the concerns raised by your group: > > 1) This is not the Poinsettia method. Although I am very > familiar with this technique and applaud his pioneering work, my > intent is to incorporate what is correct about that method and > utilize those principles in a different way. > > 2) The orthosis incorporates ongoing, full time, stretching of > the foot and lower extremity that allows for gentle, gradual change > as though someone were actively manipulating the foot all of the > time. > > 3) The orthosis is removable to allow for ongoing inspection of > the skin and to avoid infection and tissue breakdown as occurs > occasionally with casting. > > 4) Depending on growth we find that typically the initial > positioning orthosis continues to fit appropriately during the first > several weeks and that there is then a transition to a dynamic > correctional orthosis that is outgrown every 3-4 months during the > first year and every 4-6 months during later years. (The design of > the orthosis allows for volume changes in the limb as well as long > bone growth.) > > 5) Donning, positioning and patient compliance have been > exceptional: one of the strongest attributes of this brace is that > is allows for movement of the lower extremity in all three planes, > which is critical to acceptance. We find that even donning the > orthosis for first time infants can comfortably tolerate 3-4 n-m of > rotational force without discomfort, often they appear to not > even " notice " the orthosis. There is also a built in sensory > feedback that encourages relaxing into the corrected position that > appears to assist in the children's acceptance. > > 6) Long term follow up data is not yet available as we have only > been working with children for 2 years but we have several children > who have relapsed following casting or surgery and who have > therefore required renewed treatment at age 2 to 2 1/2 . These > children have done very well with nighttime wear of the orthosis > (limited ambulation is possible in the brace). I have treated > children as old as 4. > > 7) The beauty about trialing this orthosis is that we have > ongoing inspection of the foot and at any time the treatment can > revert to other modalities if so desired. > > We commend you all on taking such an active role in your > children's care, too often people are afraid to challenge the status > quo, particularly in medicine. Please know that we are on the same > page as regards that: we have suffered through " traditional " > treatments with too many wonderful kids and worked with to many > crippled adults not to want to do every thing possible to advance > the treatment of this problem. That is the motivation for this > research. I hope that if any one is interested in being considered > for this clinical trial that they will contact us so that we can > arrange an appointment to discuss specifics in greater depth. Thank > you again for your time and interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 I would still like my questions answered also: How many children have used this system? Of the X number of children he's used this on, how many were clubfooted? Were these positional or congenital club feet? And what other types of deformities does this " cure all " fix? You're right, I'd take six weeks of casts any day over four months of something else. I disagree with Chad's assessment that casting causing emotional problems to either child or parent. This whole thing seems like it hasn't been though out very well. s. Re: Alternative Conservative Treatment Chad, You need to realize that many of us had been with prior methods of treatment before finding out about the Ponseti method. For us, the use of the Ponseti method was simple in that our sons feet were then correctly positioned in 2 weeks, then with a 3 week tenotomy cast. I believe that the initial correction with the Ponseti method is much quicker than the 4 months you indicate your orthosis takes. As indicated, we may be a bit more willing to consider an orthosis that we have not seen and that has no real documented long term trackrecord if you would submit it to Dr. Ponseti for his consideration as a retention devise first. I think that Dr. Ponseti would be glad to review your orthosis and listen to your explanation as to why it would work. We are willing to consider that new possibilities may exist for methods of retention and new methods of treatment, but we are not willing to encourage new parents to be part of what at this point could be considered to be somewhat part of an " experiment " . When you are willing to provide us with photo's of your orthosis and send one to Dr. Ponseti for him to examine and give his opinion, we will be more open to discuss it without the wariness that we now have. Also, in an earlier message, I had asked you some questions that you had not answered. I would like to ask them again. Since your group is located in Portland, Maine; do you have a group of doctors there or elsewhere who are utilizing your method. Or is your treatment done completely by orthotists without utilizing a doctor? Can you give us the names and contact information for those doctors? From the POSNA website which lists most but not all of the Ped Orthos in the U.S., there are 3 ped orthos in Bangor, Maine which is 125 miles North of you, 3 in Concord N.H. (100 miles southwest) and 25 ped orthos in Boston which is also 100 miles south. You had mentioned that you had 3 doctors who are utilizing this modification of the Ponseti method. Are they in one of these groups? http://www.posna.org/index Can you provide us with information on the studies that have been done with your method, the rates of short and long term relapses and longer term outcomes? Is there anything published yet by doctors that we can read on the internet or get elsewhere? You mentioned that the DKAFO is low cost. Can you tell us what the costs of the treatment and DKAFO's would be in your system? Thanks for the information. and (3-17-99) > We wanted to say thank you for all the responses from you and your > group. It was wonderful hearing from so many obviously concerned > and proactive people. It is apparent from the tone of many of the > responses that there is both a certain amount of disbelief about > our " claims " and that Dr. Ponseti has a very strong following in > your group. While the Ponseti method is certainly an outstanding > advancement over earlier treatments, our orthosis represents a new > direction in the treatment of clubfoot and ITT that builds on his > work and we have dozens and dozens of parents who will tell you that > the results have exceeded all expectations. > > The orthosis that we have developed is the direct result of our > frustration with the inadequacies of traditional bracing and > surgical options. It sounds like we all agree that neither approach > offers ideal outcomes. Once the original concept was conceived we > worked for two years with a wide range of infants and young children > to develop and refine an orthosis that would combine the best > features of the stretching and casting techniques currently in use > while avoiding the pitfalls and discomfort of traditional bracing > (or the pain and deformities associated with surgery). Our goal was > to develop an orthosis that would ultimately replace surgery for > many children and provide a low cost alternative to serial casting > and subsequent orthotic management. We are running clinical trials > on the product of this research. Success, parent satisfaction and > patient compliance have been phenomenal and we have high hopes that > we may ultimately be able to offer an alternative to parents and > orthopedists that is actually an improvement over current > protocols. > > Although the specific design of the orthosis must remain proprietary > at this time (while awaiting patent protection) I wanted to provide > responses to some of the concerns raised by your group: > > 1) This is not the Poinsettia method. Although I am very > familiar with this technique and applaud his pioneering work, my > intent is to incorporate what is correct about that method and > utilize those principles in a different way. > > 2) The orthosis incorporates ongoing, full time, stretching of > the foot and lower extremity that allows for gentle, gradual change > as though someone were actively manipulating the foot all of the > time. > > 3) The orthosis is removable to allow for ongoing inspection of > the skin and to avoid infection and tissue breakdown as occurs > occasionally with casting. > > 4) Depending on growth we find that typically the initial > positioning orthosis continues to fit appropriately during the first > several weeks and that there is then a transition to a dynamic > correctional orthosis that is outgrown every 3-4 months during the > first year and every 4-6 months during later years. (The design of > the orthosis allows for volume changes in the limb as well as long > bone growth.) > > 5) Donning, positioning and patient compliance have been > exceptional: one of the strongest attributes of this brace is that > is allows for movement of the lower extremity in all three planes, > which is critical to acceptance. We find that even donning the > orthosis for first time infants can comfortably tolerate 3-4 n-m of > rotational force without discomfort, often they appear to not > even " notice " the orthosis. There is also a built in sensory > feedback that encourages relaxing into the corrected position that > appears to assist in the children's acceptance. > > 6) Long term follow up data is not yet available as we have only > been working with children for 2 years but we have several children > who have relapsed following casting or surgery and who have > therefore required renewed treatment at age 2 to 2 1/2 . These > children have done very well with nighttime wear of the orthosis > (limited ambulation is possible in the brace). I have treated > children as old as 4. > > 7) The beauty about trialing this orthosis is that we have > ongoing inspection of the foot and at any time the treatment can > revert to other modalities if so desired. > > We commend you all on taking such an active role in your > children's care, too often people are afraid to challenge the status > quo, particularly in medicine. Please know that we are on the same > page as regards that: we have suffered through " traditional " > treatments with too many wonderful kids and worked with to many > crippled adults not to want to do every thing possible to advance > the treatment of this problem. That is the motivation for this > research. I hope that if any one is interested in being considered > for this clinical trial that they will contact us so that we can > arrange an appointment to discuss specifics in greater depth. Thank > you again for your time and interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 I was thinking the same thing. If this - or ANY method - is good enough to be compared to Dr. Ponseti's method, then it should have it's own name and leave our good Dr. Ponseti's name OFF of it! He can call it the CHAD method if he wants, but it has no business sucking off the Ponseti method or Dr. Ponsti's life time of acheivement in this field. BTW, has any one forwarded Chad's initial message to Dr. Ponseti's office? s. Re: Alternative Conservative Treatment Chad- I could discuss quite a bit with you about your entire response, but I would like to highlight this point in particular as I think it's most important in relationship to this particular board: 1) This is not the Poinsettia method. Although I am very > familiar with this technique and applaud his pioneering work, my > intent is to incorporate what is correct about that method and > utilize those principles in a different way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 I was thinking the same thing. If this - or ANY method - is good enough to be compared to Dr. Ponseti's method, then it should have it's own name and leave our good Dr. Ponseti's name OFF of it! He can call it the CHAD method if he wants, but it has no business sucking off the Ponseti method or Dr. Ponsti's life time of acheivement in this field. BTW, has any one forwarded Chad's initial message to Dr. Ponseti's office? s. Re: Alternative Conservative Treatment Chad- I could discuss quite a bit with you about your entire response, but I would like to highlight this point in particular as I think it's most important in relationship to this particular board: 1) This is not the Poinsettia method. Although I am very > familiar with this technique and applaud his pioneering work, my > intent is to incorporate what is correct about that method and > utilize those principles in a different way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Dear ol Chad is over trying to recruit also at the " clubfoot " yahoo support group. I asked him a few questions over there, I'll see if he answers since there are already other peoples questions he hasn't answered. I'm curious as to his answers, remember Collin switched to the Ponseti method at age 2, so we have used AFO's and KAFO's etc. and it seems he is just modifing these into another type it's hard for me to tell though because he hasn't provided any photo's or sketches of what he means. Michele Collin 8-24-01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Dear ol Chad is over trying to recruit also at the " clubfoot " yahoo support group. I asked him a few questions over there, I'll see if he answers since there are already other peoples questions he hasn't answered. I'm curious as to his answers, remember Collin switched to the Ponseti method at age 2, so we have used AFO's and KAFO's etc. and it seems he is just modifing these into another type it's hard for me to tell though because he hasn't provided any photo's or sketches of what he means. Michele Collin 8-24-01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 I am just wondering how it is more cost effective? I know when Tyler was with his last ortho he wore afos. He had 2 sets that ended up costing 1500.00 a set. How can these be more cost effective then the casting which is proven to work? We did not like the casts by any means but it's not all that he is making it out to be either. And yes we didn't have much luck with the regular dbb, but like I said earlier, why not try to come up with something better to hold correction then mess with the Ponsetti method which has worked for years. And I don't see how a different kind of afo or kafo is going to work as well as the dbbs do. Just my opinion. Tyler's mommy bi lat atypical cf 1/14/03 new Dobbs brace 9/9/04 23/7 4/12/94 non cf 5/24/95 non cf > Dear ol Chad is over trying to recruit also at the " clubfoot " yahoo > support group. I asked him a few questions over there, I'll see if > he answers since there are already other peoples questions he hasn't > answered. I'm curious as to his answers, remember Collin switched > to the Ponseti method at age 2, so we have used AFO's and KAFO's > etc. and it seems he is just modifing these into another type it's > hard for me to tell though because he hasn't provided any photo's or > sketches of what he means. > > Michele > Collin 8-24-01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 I am just wondering how it is more cost effective? I know when Tyler was with his last ortho he wore afos. He had 2 sets that ended up costing 1500.00 a set. How can these be more cost effective then the casting which is proven to work? We did not like the casts by any means but it's not all that he is making it out to be either. And yes we didn't have much luck with the regular dbb, but like I said earlier, why not try to come up with something better to hold correction then mess with the Ponsetti method which has worked for years. And I don't see how a different kind of afo or kafo is going to work as well as the dbbs do. Just my opinion. Tyler's mommy bi lat atypical cf 1/14/03 new Dobbs brace 9/9/04 23/7 4/12/94 non cf 5/24/95 non cf > Dear ol Chad is over trying to recruit also at the " clubfoot " yahoo > support group. I asked him a few questions over there, I'll see if > he answers since there are already other peoples questions he hasn't > answered. I'm curious as to his answers, remember Collin switched > to the Ponseti method at age 2, so we have used AFO's and KAFO's > etc. and it seems he is just modifing these into another type it's > hard for me to tell though because he hasn't provided any photo's or > sketches of what he means. > > Michele > Collin 8-24-01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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