Guest guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Hi group We just received the DMSA that was compounded by the pharmacy for my child. We are doing the 24 hour urine test where we are to collect the urine and give the DMSA to the child and then collect urine for 24 hours. Is DMSA the chelating substance? The doctor told me we were just checking to see if he had metals. We are only to give him the DMSA one time and then collect urine. Should I expect any side effects? This is all very new to me. I did not ask the doctor about chelating so that is why I am wonder what exactly is this test. Is it just to see if there is a problem with metals or am I actually chelating my child. I am assuming with just one dose we are just checking. Sorry for my ignorance but this list has been the best resource around. BTW my child is 2 1/2 and weighs 37 lbs. Thanks Stacey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 > Hi group > > We just received the DMSA that was compounded by the pharmacy for my child. We are doing the 24 hour urine test where we are to collect the urine and give the DMSA to the child and then collect urine for 24 hours. Is DMSA the chelating substance? Yes, it chelates lead and other things from the body, but does not cross into the brain. > The doctor told me we were just checking to see if he had metals. We are only to give him the DMSA one time and then collect urine. Should I expect any side effects? Possibly some, depending on the dose. Your child will [if he is metal toxic] have metals flowing around his body. DMSA does excrete thru the urine, so the metals will show up in the urine if there are any. This test procedure is controversial tho, many people recommend hair test, altho that is not entirely accurate either. Read here, be sure to type the Q onto the end. /files/Mercury-Autism%20FA Q > This is all very new to me. I did not ask the doctor about chelating so that is why I am wonder what exactly is this test. Is it just to see if there is a problem with metals or am I actually chelating my child. I am assuming with just one dose we are just checking. Yes and yes. It is checking for metals by doing one dose of chelator. >Sorry for my ignorance but this list has been the best resource around. BTW my child is 2 1/2 and weighs 37 lbs. If you want more opinions, post your question here also. / Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Stacey, We have chelated our son--- who is now 8--- for two years. Our 10 yr. old daughter - began in Sept. DMSA is the agent- What kind of doctor are you going to? We started chelation with an environmental doctor checking for metals- we gave the medicine for three days then collected urine- we are now chelating with another doctor and the same set up. I do not believe that one dose would pull enough metals-there is a certain order with which metals will be excreted from the body- mercury will not show up till other metals are gone. I do not believe that you will see many side effects with one dose. Actually I always looked upon any " bad " or " old " behavior as good- the metals were being pulled. The last three months of last year we knew that we were pulling mercury- by 's behavoir- and this was confirmed when we tested. There has also been discussion with regards to the compounding the DMSA and it maintaining its potency- however we used a compounding liquid for three months and felt we saw results- the stuff tasted horrible- we simply had to hold down and use a syringe to squirt it down his throat. If you continue with chelation and need a liquid- Kirkmans powdered is great- we simply mix with a small amount of water and squirts it in his mouth- it is much easier and better tasting. hope this helps. joan kenjoan@... [ ] Question re: DMSA Hi group We just received the DMSA that was compounded by the pharmacy for my child. We are doing the 24 hour urine test where we are to collect the urine and give the DMSA to the child and then collect urine for 24 hours. Is DMSA the chelating substance? The doctor told me we were just checking to see if he had metals. We are only to give him the DMSA one time and then collect urine. Should I expect any side effects? This is all very new to me. I did not ask the doctor about chelating so that is why I am wonder what exactly is this test. Is it just to see if there is a problem with metals or am I actually chelating my child. I am assuming with just one dose we are just checking. Sorry for my ignorance but this list has been the best resource around. BTW my child is 2 1/2 and weighs 37 lbs. Thanks Stacey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 The doctor we are seeing is an enviromental doctor who is practicing the DAN protocol. He is from Baton Rouge but he is practicing in GA and is on the ARI's list of DAN doctors. I called his office this afternoon for clarification about my questions. They told me that the test form that gives directions for one dose is actually for adult patients and not children and that I should give my son 1 tsp 3x daily for 3 days and then collect urine. Does this sound more accurate for a child? The DMSA bottle says is is DMSA 150/mg/5ML Susp. The doctors office told me that this was a very mild dose and that I should not worry. Am I correct in my assumption that this is not a test for metals and we are actually chelating? I am worried. When I went to the doctor he ordered an OAT test with a combination stool analysis and a hair test for metals and also the gluten/casien peptide test. He then told me about the 24 hour urine collection test for metals but he did not actually explain that we would be chelating. I have read that DMSA is dangerous if not used under medical supervision. What is dangerous about it? We have been on the GFCF diet for only 2 weeks and have not experimented with enyzymes yet. We are giving EFA's and have seen great results. My child is dx'd as mild pdd and is 2 1/2 years old. I am wondering whether I should hold off on the DMSA until other tests results come back. I am scared. I read the FAQ list at list and like I said, it scared me. I am going to call our doctor again tommorow and maybe I will be reassured. I am in the habit of researching all interventions that we try and I have not yet ventured into the world of chelation so I am not educated on the facts. I know what it is and how it works to some degree but I do not know the side effects and why it is " supposed " to be dangerous. I believe what he is doing is the challenge test. Anyone else agree Stacey [ ] Question re: DMSA Hi group We just received the DMSA that was compounded by the pharmacy for my child. We are doing the 24 hour urine test where we are to collect the urine and give the DMSA to the child and then collect urine for 24 hours. Is DMSA the chelating substance? The doctor told me we were just checking to see if he had metals. We are only to give him the DMSA one time and then collect urine. Should I expect any side effects? This is all very new to me. I did not ask the doctor about chelating so that is why I am wonder what exactly is this test. Is it just to see if there is a problem with metals or am I actually chelating my child. I am assuming with just one dose we are just checking. Sorry for my ignorance but this list has been the best resource around. BTW my child is 2 1/2 and weighs 37 lbs. Thanks Stacey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Hello Stacey, > We just received the DMSA that was compounded by the pharmacy for my child. We are doing the 24 hour urine test where we are to collect the urine and give the DMSA to the child and then collect urine for 24 hours. Is DMSA the chelating substance? ==> yes, DMSA is a chelating substance. The doctor told me we were just checking to see if he had metals. ==> yes, the idea is to give a chelating substance and see if metals come out or not. This is not necessarily a valid test however, since some who have mercury don't seem to excrete it right away, and also, I've heard that some people who are not really " toxic " will excrete some mercury if given a big dose of a chelator..... I don't know how much the false positives OR the false negatives are the case, but perhaps you'll want to consider this. We are only to give him the DMSA one time and then collect urine. Should I expect any side effects? ==> quite possible. This is all very new to me. I did not ask the doctor about chelating so that is why I am wonder what exactly is this test. ==> your doctor is doing a " provoked " or " challenge " test. You are " provoking " mercury and lead to come out in urine. Is it just to see if there is a problem with metals or am I actually chelating my child. ==> both. it is using a chelation agent to try to see if there are metals. I am assuming with just one dose we are just checking. Sorry for my ignorance but this list has been the best resource around. ==> no " excuse " needed. This is not exactly something people tried to teach you in high school but you just didn't pay attention! If you'd like, you can also find more info here: /files/ANDY_INDEX However, it may be a bit disturbing, since it Andy says that challenge tests are NOT diagnostic (for mercury poisoning). None the less, I hope this is some help. Mori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 >> I called his office this afternoon for clarification about my questions. They told me that the test form that gives directions for one dose is actually for adult patients and not children So your doctor gave you wrong information which you would never had known about unless you called? I would not trust this doctor. >> and that I should give my son 1 tsp 3x daily for 3 days and then collect urine. Does this sound more accurate for a child? Andy Cutler recommends every 4 hours, not three times each day, and also -- Reasonable dosages are 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound for each of ALA, DMSA and DMPS. I also found this info -- Chelating dose: All of the doses were weight adjusted. The most frequent target dose was 10mg/Kg/ per dose if administer every 8 hours and 5 mg/Kg/Dose if target dose was every 5 hours. Some parents were slowing increasing the dose as tolerated. Overall, the older children were receiving lower doses per kg than the younger children. You can read the DAN protocol here http://www.autism.com/ari/mercurydetox.html I don't necessarily agree with any of this, but you are the one who has to agree to the protocol used for your child, not me or anyone else, including your doctor. Here is the entire files section of site. /files/ Here is Amy Holmes site http://www.healing-arts.org/children/holmes.htm Hey while I am at it, here is my entire chelation section http://www.autismchannel.net/dana/parent3.htm#chelation >> The DMSA bottle says is is DMSA 150/mg/5ML Susp. The doctors office told me that this was a very mild dose and that I should not worry. 150 mg three times each day for a 37 pound child sounds excessive to me, at least to start, but I don't use DMSA for my kids, I use ALA, so I am not an expert. >> Am I correct in my assumption that this is not a test for metals and we are actually chelating? > You are testing for metals by doing an actual round of chelation and seeing what comes out. > I am worried. Then don't do it. >> When I went to the doctor he ordered an OAT test with a combination stool analysis and a hair test for metals and also the gluten/casien peptide test. The hair test should be okay, use the counting rules from the FAQ link I gave you previously. >> He then told me about the 24 hour urine collection test for metals but he did not actually explain that we would be chelating. If he did not explain sufficiently for you, then don't do it, ask him again, or find another doctor. >> I have read that DMSA is dangerous if not used under medical supervision. What is dangerous about it? > It moves metals around the body, for one, and also it excretes metals thru the kidneys, which is why you do urine collection, but if your child has kidney issues, it can cause problems for metals moving thru the kidneys. > We have been on the GFCF diet for only 2 weeks and have not experimented with enyzymes yet. We are giving EFA's and have seen great results. My child is dx'd as mild pdd and is 2 1/2 years old. I am wondering whether I should hold off on the DMSA until other tests results come back. I am scared. It sounds like you are not comfortable, so don't do it. >> I read the FAQ list at list and like I said, it scared me. I am going to call our doctor again tommorow and maybe I will be reassured. I am in the habit of researching all interventions that we try and I have not yet ventured into the world of chelation so I am not educated on the facts. I know what it is and how it works to some degree but I do not know the side effects and why it is " supposed " to be dangerous. Get your doctor to explain it sufficiently for you. It is not his child, it is your child. > I believe what he is doing is the challenge test. Anyone else agree Yes. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Hi Stacey, > I called his office this afternoon for clarification about my questions. They told me that the test form that gives directions for one dose is actually for adult patients and not children and that I should give my son 1 tsp 3x daily for 3 days and then collect urine. Does this sound more accurate for a child? ==> I am sorry but I don't think there is a simple answer to this. The doses recommended by different people differ. Also the dose schedule recommended by different people differs, and is a source of GREAT controversy. (You may find the level of controversy pretty unbelieveable at first actually.) You can read Andy Cutler'r recommended dose schedule and amounts here: /files/Andy_dose_sched You can also read DAN!'s recommended dose (much higher) in their protocol, which is here: http://www.autism.com/ari/mercuryconsensus.html The DMSA bottle says is is DMSA 150/mg/5ML Susp. The doctors office told me that this was a very mild dose and that I should not worry. Am I correct in my assumption that this is not a test for metals and we are actually chelating? ==> they are trying to test for metals BY chelating. > I am worried. When I went to the doctor he ordered an OAT test with a combination stool analysis and a hair test for metals and also the gluten/casien peptide test. ==> what sort of hair test did they order? If it is a DDI hair elements test, read here: /files/Counting%2BRules This is only useable with a DDI hair elements test though. He then told me about the 24 hour urine collection test for metals but he did not actually explain that we would be chelating. I have read that DMSA is dangerous if not used under medical supervision. What is dangerous about it? ==> this is a complex question. You might want to read the section on DMSA here: /files/ANDY_INDEX I am not sure this is all you would want to know, but it is a start I guess. > We have been on the GFCF diet for only 2 weeks and have not experimented with enyzymes yet. We are giving EFA's and have seen great results. My child is dx'd as mild pdd and is 2 1/2 years old. I am wondering whether I should hold off on the DMSA until other tests results come back. I am scared. I read the FAQ list at list and like I said, it scared me. I am going to call our doctor again tommorow and maybe I will be reassured. I am in the habit of researching all interventions that we try and I have not yet ventured into the world of chelation so I am not educated on the facts. I know what it is and how it works to some degree but I do not know the side effects and why it is " supposed " to be dangerous. ==> I think your desire to learn more is very reasonable. In any case, considering your own feelings about it is reasonable. You could also try reading the autism treatment list for a while. The topic does tend to be pretty confusing for a while, I think. > I believe what he is doing is the challenge test. ==> yes, the process you described is also called a challenge test-- taking chelator and looking for metals in urine. Also called a provoked urine test... best wishes, Moria [i'm not a parent, I'm chelating mySELF.... for a year now.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 -----Original Message----- [ ] Hi Dana, have been meaning to ask you questions for ages - we are chelating using ALA - 50 mg every 3 hours over two days (the weekends) - our child is 7 years of age - does this sound right? Is two days long enough at a time - i.e. from Friday 5 till Sunday night at 11pm. To test to see what is coming out what is the best method i.e. hair etc. We are now up to round 5 - we also did DMSA for about 5 rounds etc. Just checking. Cheers H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Hi Terri here - yes I will phone you - just trialing other things before we resort to Risperidone, hope the chelating is helping your little guy - With DMSA metals show up in the urine test but from all I have been told once you use ALA they show in the stool test which we can't do in NZ, you can send it to the US for testing but basically as Andy says just keep doing it until no improvement is obvious and don't waste the money. R. is really into testing everything so phone her if you want to test the stool she will give you the contacts. Regards Terri NZ 2's.Original Message----- From: <maryhe@...> ' ' < > Date: Thursday, 7 February 2002 20:17 Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Question re: DMSA -----Original Message----- [ ] Hi Dana, have been meaning to ask you questions for ages - we are chelating using ALA - 50 mg every 3 hours over two days (the weekends) - our child is 7 years of age - does this sound right? Is two days long enough at a time - i.e. from Friday 5 till Sunday night at 11pm. To test to see what is coming out what is the best method i.e. hair etc. We are now up to round 5 - we also did DMSA for about 5 rounds etc. Just checking. Cheers H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2002 Report Share Posted February 7, 2002 > > > -----Original Message----- > [ ] Hi Dana, have been meaning to ask you questions for ages > - we are chelating using ALA - 50 mg every 3 hours over two days (the > weekends) - our child is 7 years of age - does this sound right? I use 50mg every 8 hours for my son, he is almost age 6 and weighs 50 pounds. If you give every 3-4 hours, you are supposed to use less than if you give every 8 hours, but your son is older than mine, so it sounds okay to me so long as you are not seeing any problems. Keep watch for yeast tho, my son developed a yeast issue after about round 8. I just increased my son to 65mg and so far so good. > Is two days long enough at a time - i.e. from Friday 5 till Sunday night at > 11pm. I do 3 days but several people do 2 days. I don't see a problem with that. > To test to see what is coming out what is the best method i.e. hair etc. For testing after chelation is begun, you can get info from the files at a-m forum, or on Dr. Holmes site, it is near the bottom of her page. /files http://www.healing-arts.org/children/holmes.htm > We are now up to round 5 - we also did DMSA for about 5 rounds etc. Today is the last day of round 15 for my kids, looks good! Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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