Re: 4 yr old refuses to poop

[Guest guest]

Magnesium or magnesium citrate supplements would help MOVE the stool

along. So does large amounts of vitamin C. Kirkman's sells some mag

and mag citrate. You can give them in the evening as they may give a

sleepy effect. When I was taking some mag a few weeks ago...stools

were moving, but I was yawning all day long. Then I realized the

connection and started taking them at bedtime to bypass that sleepy

effect. Anyway, I would not be too worried about bacteria at this

point. It may be there, it may not. But try magnesium and or

vitamin C, and see if that helps. And ask him to drink a little bit

of water throughout the day--we just set a cup down and tell our son

he needs to drink it all (it isn't very much). He knows now that

he " must " do it. We are firm that he gets enough water. If your son

is not GFCF, there is a cereal called Uncle Sam cereal that is wheat,

but it is a laxative cereal. It is in the healthy cereal section.

You can also find tea's in the health food section that deal with

constipation. We use Smooth Move tea on occassion. If your son is

passing balls of stool, then he needs to get things REALLY moving and

keep them moving until you see no more balls. Then you can back off

and work on just the supplementation. SO gather up the products you

want to use, and then get him started with a laxative for a day or

two and get him cleaned out. And then repeat again in a week or two.

The problem most people find when dealing with constipation is that

they don't do the initial clean out. Imagine a traffic jam in your

colon... you've got to get A LOT Of the cars out first before you can

expect traffic to flow smoothly...otherwise, you still have very slow

moving traffic. I'm pretty sure ex lax is safe for a 4 year

old...but you can check the label/call the company. They make a lot

of children's laxatives. Ocassional use of a laxative is not going

to mess up the system, and using laxatives AT FIRST, and then repeat

again intermittently, is almost always warranted to clean out the

back-up.

W

> Okay I've thought about giving him Ex Lax in the past but I

> don't know if it's safe for a 4 yr old. Any suggestions would be

> appreciated.

>

> Thanks in advance,

> Darlene

[Guest guest]

Darlene,

We went through some difficult times with my oldest son who has

Asperger's back when he was about this same age. Really not fun to

be changing an infant's diapers and still changing a four-year-old,

too. We ended up consulting with Dr. Ed sen, world class

toileting expert (he'd probably like that, LOL). I have a link here

to an article by him on this issue. We had our son do the toilet

sits he mentions - lots of them for many days - before then doing the

next step. Everything was in tiny steps for days. First do the sits

with clothes on on top of the toilet with the lid down. Then, on the

lid in underwear for a few days, then lid up for a few days and so on

(baby steps!). He had us put a step stool under each foot for while

the child sits - so you need two step stools for your child to get

situated properly. This is to be a no stress deal, go slow. By the

way, after enzymes, all toileting issues got much better very fast.

Here's the article:

http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/toddler/toilettraining/4417.html

[Guest guest]

It is good you can tell the bathroom thing is due to anxiety. I

would strongly suggest you follow 's idea of getting used to

the potty and encouraging him to go in a regular cycle. Otherwise he

can easily develop encopresis by withholding. The colon will stretch

to accommodate the waste mass until it is 4 times the normal size.

Then you have a real mess on your hands. This isn't counting the

bacteria and toxins his body is absorbing while he is holding.

The laxatives may help, but if he is holding on purpose, they won't

be able to accomplish their job as well. Part of the encopresis

treatment is to help the body re-establish the natural elimination

rythym following muscle movements. It involves having the child sit

on the potty for 10 minutes long about 10 minutes after eating

breakfast and dinner, and after eating any other meal or snack if it

is convenient. Just say he needs to do this whether anything comes

out or not (this may lessen the " performance anxiety " ). It took my 7

year old the full 6 months of encopresis treatment to get back to

normal plus treat for bacteria overgrowth, and I hope you don't have

to go that route.

Best,

.

[Guest guest]

I don't really have answers to your questions, but this reminded me of

something I read quite a while ago. Some children have anxiety because they

feel like it's an extention of their body and it is falling off. Perhaps

this is the feelings your son is having.

Diane

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/30/02 3:23:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sisdar@...

writes:

> I went to the store and bought some apples. ;-) Hoping

>

Prune juice usually works for my daughter!

Margaret

[Guest guest]

To the mom who has the 4-year-old who is holding his poop.

I think the other responders have covered the biological aspect of this very

well, some good things to think about.

I will tell you my story, in case something might be useful. I just

recently, about a month ago, potty trained my son. He too was afraid to poop

in the toilet, he refused to do it. He knew it needed to go in there, he

would sit there, and " try " , but at the same time he would hold it in. I

asked him one day if he was scared and he said " yes " . I had told him that he

could not pee or poop in his new underwear, so he just began holding the

poop. He urine trained easy. So, after a few times of having to give those

little enemas to get his poop out, I had another idea.

His favorite toys are matchbox cars. I bought a multi-pack of cars, showed

them to him, asked him which one he wanted, and he picked one out. Then I

told him that when he pooped in the toilet he could have the car. It worked!

He wanted the car bad enough, he pooped and has been poop trained ever

since. He now tells me when he needs to poop, he asks to see the cars, picks

one out, I put it back and he sits and poops, then he gets the car!

If there is something your son really really loves, you might try to use it

as a reward for pooping. We also give him a sticker, a piece of candy, and

in the beginning we would call many family members so he could tell them " I

POOPED " and they would all cheer and stuff.

Anyway, just something for you to think about, try a really enticing reward

for him, something he REALLY wants bad, and just maybe he can conquer that

fear.

Keep us all posted.

[Guest guest]

Thank you everyone for all the replies. I did use the

reward system for awhile with toys that he really

wanted - only they were bigger toys. It worked - most

of the time - but when the toys ran out he stopped

going! LOL He flat out told me that he wasn't going to

do it anymore if he didn't get a toy! I had decided

today that maybe I should go out and just buy a bunch of

little things from the dollar store and put in a basket

and let him pick. I'm hoping that if I buy a months

worth then maybe he'll get the hang of it. He used to

say that he's scared to go poop on the toilet.

Thanks too for the web-site. It was nice to know

that there's enough people going through this to have

one. I did have him sit on the potty today and we

played an electronic game. I told him he didn't have to

go poop on it - just to sit. He wasn't too happy about

having to sit there but I set the timer for 10 minutes

and put it where he could see it. I'm planning on

having him sit there again tonight since I know he needs

to go again today. He finally went last night in his

sleep but he woke up again needing to go. I'm really

worried it's backing up in there. Maybe I should just

give up and try an enema for now. I just hate to cause

him more anxiety over it all because I know he won't

like that.

I went to the store and bought some apples. ;-) Hoping

they will help. I am still worried about the bacteria

so I'm going to keep at it.

Thanks again everyone!

Darlene

[Guest guest]

Hi

DD has had trouble pooping for about 4 year now - she's just turning 5 in a

few days. We used to add prune juice to her bottle, and people thought we

were giving her coffee!!!! She got plenty hyper enough without that, though.

Margaret

[Guest guest]

Darlene,

Those flavored prunes can help some kids - not sure if they are okay

for gfcf.

If the behavior modification didn't work, the psychologist was next

going to have us do an enema, so I was REALLY motivated to have my

son do the sits.

Toys are okay if that is what will work, needless to say and the

little items from the dollar store is a great plan (works for my kids

with the dentist office!). However, in our case, our son needed to

reach a comfort level with the whole thing and toys were not going to

do it. The psychologist said in some cases, it is like offering a

pregnant woman a prize if she will just birth a baby on command.

Maybe not exactly the same thing here, but you have to know where the

problem lies and it does sound like you've got this figured out.

Since your son is motivated by the toys, that sounds like a

reasonable plan. If you think he can put off gratification a little

while, you might want to check out my token system on Dana's site.

If you can't find it there, let me know, I don't have the link in

front of me.

Hope everything comes out okay (sorry, I couldn't resist).

[Guest guest]

> Hope everything comes out okay (sorry, I couldn't resist).

LOL Too funny ! At least I'm smiling about it now. I tried

prune juice and he wouldn't touch it. If it doesn't look like

something familiar - forget it. Does anyone know if apple juice

would help? Or bananas? I can never remember if bananas are for

helping with constipation or have the opposite effect. He won't eat

cereal so apples were the only fiber thing I could think of. I need

to order the magnesium to try also.

I really should change the subject on this. It looks like a news

flash! LOL

Thanks again,

Darlene