Guest guest Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 yes yes yes swelling is not only possibly there.. but i bet it is still there. it took me a long time to be unswollen.. off and on for a year i would wake up and have my puffy days. the surgeon said that would be expected. . hope your face returns to normal soon and when you look at the weird screws and the long things they put above your lip..right below your nose.. yesss im sure its still swollen.. mine still feels puffy and different to the touch.. and my surgery was a little over a year ago. i hope you are happy with your final results! amanda > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where they > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and still > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be more > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the base of > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 yes yes yes swelling is not only possibly there.. but i bet it is still there. it took me a long time to be unswollen.. off and on for a year i would wake up and have my puffy days. the surgeon said that would be expected. . hope your face returns to normal soon and when you look at the weird screws and the long things they put above your lip..right below your nose.. yesss im sure its still swollen.. mine still feels puffy and different to the touch.. and my surgery was a little over a year ago. i hope you are happy with your final results! amanda > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where they > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and still > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be more > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the base of > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 yes yes yes swelling is not only possibly there.. but i bet it is still there. it took me a long time to be unswollen.. off and on for a year i would wake up and have my puffy days. the surgeon said that would be expected. . hope your face returns to normal soon and when you look at the weird screws and the long things they put above your lip..right below your nose.. yesss im sure its still swollen.. mine still feels puffy and different to the touch.. and my surgery was a little over a year ago. i hope you are happy with your final results! amanda > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where they > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and still > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be more > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the base of > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 thanks soo much!!! you dont know how much better that makes me feel! you hear all the stuff the dr says but coming from someone who went through it, it's just that much better!! thanks again > > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where they > > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and still > > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be more > > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the base > of > > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 thanks soo much!!! you dont know how much better that makes me feel! you hear all the stuff the dr says but coming from someone who went through it, it's just that much better!! thanks again > > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where they > > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and still > > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be more > > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the base > of > > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 thanks soo much!!! you dont know how much better that makes me feel! you hear all the stuff the dr says but coming from someone who went through it, it's just that much better!! thanks again > > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where they > > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and still > > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be more > > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the base > of > > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 youre more than welcome,.. this site is so cool.. i remember how scared i was about my surgery, and how at all the pre-op appointments there is so much work they do to your face, while they talk it just all doesnt sink in.. or at least thats how it was for me. another guy who i graduated with needed jaw surgery as well.. he was too scared to get it, he said after i got mine hed have to talk to me about it to see how it went. hahaha. but i am glad i can inform people on how my experience was..over-all really great!so hopefully i can help anyway. have a good day:) amanda > > > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where > they > > > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and > still > > > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be > more > > > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > > > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the > base > > of > > > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 youre more than welcome,.. this site is so cool.. i remember how scared i was about my surgery, and how at all the pre-op appointments there is so much work they do to your face, while they talk it just all doesnt sink in.. or at least thats how it was for me. another guy who i graduated with needed jaw surgery as well.. he was too scared to get it, he said after i got mine hed have to talk to me about it to see how it went. hahaha. but i am glad i can inform people on how my experience was..over-all really great!so hopefully i can help anyway. have a good day:) amanda > > > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where > they > > > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and > still > > > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be > more > > > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > > > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the > base > > of > > > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 youre more than welcome,.. this site is so cool.. i remember how scared i was about my surgery, and how at all the pre-op appointments there is so much work they do to your face, while they talk it just all doesnt sink in.. or at least thats how it was for me. another guy who i graduated with needed jaw surgery as well.. he was too scared to get it, he said after i got mine hed have to talk to me about it to see how it went. hahaha. but i am glad i can inform people on how my experience was..over-all really great!so hopefully i can help anyway. have a good day:) amanda > > > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where > they > > > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and > still > > > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be > more > > > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > > > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the > base > > of > > > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Dear , Our daughter had the same surgery 12/10/03. It is now almost 7 weeks post op. Her swelling has just barely started to go down to a normal (?) looking upper lip and cheeks. She still cannot smile correctly (not able to lift corners of upper lip up). This is what our os had to say about the swelling: 1) Thick upper lip, cheeks and nose swelling will go down gradually and mobility in that area will start to improve when the nerves that are regenerating find their home. The instrument that was used to clamp on to your upper lip and help pull the face up and off the facial bones (wrong word here but hopefully you get the picture) has created a tremendous amount of interior bruising. 2) The lower part of the cheek around the nose will 'look' to be protruding until you get used to it. The upper jaw when moved forward, moves the lower skin and cheek area under the nose forward because that is the slant (from lower nose to upper jaw bone) that was created when the upper jaw was moved forward. When all the swelling has subsided you will be grateful for this slant because that is part of what helps the total face look 'perfect.' 3) Don't hope to have all swelling gone until at least six months post surgery. , this are our os's comments to our same questions that you have asked here. We have noticed that now, after the six week post op mark, her swelling is receding faster. Hope this helps some. maxilla surgery i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where they moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and still looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be more swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the base of my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 ryan, i'm a little over 5 weeks. i had upper and genio. my face is still swollen. i met with my doctor this past thursday and they were pleased with how things look so far. i was told to wait 3 months before i can have a good idea about the final result. just be patient, there's still a lot of swelling at this point. i'm not pleased with how my upper lip looks either, but i know that it will be going back down at some point. good luck! aileen --- Hopper rmhopper@...> wrote: --------------------------------- i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where they moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and still looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be more swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the base of my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 yeah all that sounds a lot better, thanks everyone, its good to hear from people who have went through it. i just hope the results when the swelling goes down that it all turns out awesome > > --------------------------------- > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper > jaw where they > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems > thick and still > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there > possibly be more > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. > also, is > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks > around the base of > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly > appreciated > > > > --------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 yeah all that sounds a lot better, thanks everyone, its good to hear from people who have went through it. i just hope the results when the swelling goes down that it all turns out awesome > > --------------------------------- > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper > jaw where they > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems > thick and still > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there > possibly be more > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. > also, is > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks > around the base of > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly > appreciated > > > > --------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 yeah all that sounds a lot better, thanks everyone, its good to hear from people who have went through it. i just hope the results when the swelling goes down that it all turns out awesome > > --------------------------------- > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper > jaw where they > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems > thick and still > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there > possibly be more > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. > also, is > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks > around the base of > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly > appreciated > > > > --------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 hey juli, i had my surgery on the 18 of dec so your daughter is about one week ahead of me. how are things going with her?? i notice the forward slant around the base of the nose bit it is rather puffy i guess i could say. thanks for your help > Dear , > Our daughter had the same surgery 12/10/03. It is now almost 7 weeks post op. Her swelling has just barely started to go down to a normal (?) looking upper lip and cheeks. She still cannot smile correctly (not able to lift corners of upper lip up). > This is what our os had to say about the swelling: > 1) Thick upper lip, cheeks and nose swelling will go down gradually and mobility in that area will start to improve when the nerves that are regenerating find their home. The instrument that was used to clamp on to your upper lip and help pull the face up and off the facial bones (wrong word here but hopefully you get the picture) has created a tremendous amount of interior bruising. > 2) The lower part of the cheek around the nose will 'look' to be protruding until you get used to it. The upper jaw when moved forward, moves the lower skin and cheek area under the nose forward because that is the slant (from lower nose to upper jaw bone) that was created when the upper jaw was moved forward. When all the swelling has subsided you will be grateful for this slant because that is part of what helps the total face look 'perfect.' > 3) Don't hope to have all swelling gone until at least six months post surgery. > , this are our os's comments to our same questions that you have asked here. We have noticed that now, after the six week post op mark, her swelling is receding faster. Hope this helps some. > > > maxilla surgery > > > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where they > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and still > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be more > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the base of > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 , Jaleah is doing really well. She is the head cheerleader and back at everything (cheer, dance, gymnastics) as of the 5th week post op. She is not allowed to do any stunting until the 3 month mark (getting hit in the face is quite common with stunting). She is beginning to start breaking out on her face, which she has never done before, so we believe it is from the surigcal meds. Pschycological is the hardest for her. This site helped us so completely with everything else, we never even thought about the psych side. She has always been beautiful and outgoing, high self-esteem, etc...Miss Utah Junior National Teenager, class president, etc. Now she actually looks different so it is hard for her. Many have commented, not derogatory - just questioning why the difference, etc and she has even come home from school several times with the comment, " geesh I'm just ugly - hope it will change " . But actually her face is really how it will now be forever and she just needs to get used to it. We believe she is still beautiful - face and actions. So, other than psych problems she is great. This Wed she gets the long wire on her left side removed. Her left upper jaw bone was mal-formed and too thin to put the wire in so they had to lift her face above her eyes and drill through the cheekbone just under the eye to attach the wire...it will come out on Wed so we are happy about that. Then, healing progress should begin in earnest. I think we will look up the spa treatment that was talked about yesterday on the site for her remaining swelling and I'm sure will will have some with this last minor surgery. Boy howdy, did I ever rattle, but I think I'll leave it all - might help someone else prepare better psych wise. Thanks, Juli maxilla surgery > > > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where they > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and still > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be more > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the base of > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 well it sounds like you have quite the daughter. i hope everything turns out well for her and gets over the psych aspect of the surgery. that is undoubtedly my hardest thing so far also. ive got all i could want (in med school at 19, smart, athletic, funny, blah blah blah) but the only thing that holds me back is what is in my head. everyone tells me i look good but especially after surgery, its just not me and i dont feel comfortable with how things are unfolding. i just honestly hope and pray things turn out like i had hoped they would. before the surgery, my underbite wasnt all that bad, but i had some bags under my eyes from skin that was not taut because of my underdeveloped maxilla. this loose skin was the primary reason for me wanting to have the surgery done as my surgeon had said it would take care of the problem. yet 5 weeks post op, they are still there and im growing increasingly skeptical about whether it will change or not and if it stays as is, i am considering having very small cheek implants. thanks for all the comments though, i never would have thought that a group like this would help so much. thanks again, ryan > > Dear , > > Our daughter had the same surgery 12/10/03. It is now almost > 7 weeks post op. Her swelling has just barely started to go down to > a normal (?) looking upper lip and cheeks. She still cannot smile > correctly (not able to lift corners of upper lip up). > > This is what our os had to say about the swelling: > > 1) Thick upper lip, cheeks and nose swelling will go down > gradually and mobility in that area will start to improve when the > nerves that are regenerating find their home. The instrument that > was used to clamp on to your upper lip and help pull the face up and > off the facial bones (wrong word here but hopefully you get the > picture) has created a tremendous amount of interior bruising. > > 2) The lower part of the cheek around the nose > will 'look' to be protruding until you get used to it. The upper > jaw when moved forward, moves the lower skin and cheek area under > the nose forward because that is the slant (from lower nose to upper > jaw bone) that was created when the upper jaw was moved forward. > When all the swelling has subsided you will be grateful for this > slant because that is part of what helps the total face > look 'perfect.' > > 3) Don't hope to have all swelling gone until at least > six months post surgery. > > , this are our os's comments to our same questions that > you have asked here. We have noticed that now, after the six week > post op mark, her swelling is receding faster. Hope this helps some. > > > > > > maxilla surgery > > > > > > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where > they > > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and > still > > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be > more > > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the > base of > > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- --- > ----------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 well it sounds like you have quite the daughter. i hope everything turns out well for her and gets over the psych aspect of the surgery. that is undoubtedly my hardest thing so far also. ive got all i could want (in med school at 19, smart, athletic, funny, blah blah blah) but the only thing that holds me back is what is in my head. everyone tells me i look good but especially after surgery, its just not me and i dont feel comfortable with how things are unfolding. i just honestly hope and pray things turn out like i had hoped they would. before the surgery, my underbite wasnt all that bad, but i had some bags under my eyes from skin that was not taut because of my underdeveloped maxilla. this loose skin was the primary reason for me wanting to have the surgery done as my surgeon had said it would take care of the problem. yet 5 weeks post op, they are still there and im growing increasingly skeptical about whether it will change or not and if it stays as is, i am considering having very small cheek implants. thanks for all the comments though, i never would have thought that a group like this would help so much. thanks again, ryan > > Dear , > > Our daughter had the same surgery 12/10/03. It is now almost > 7 weeks post op. Her swelling has just barely started to go down to > a normal (?) looking upper lip and cheeks. She still cannot smile > correctly (not able to lift corners of upper lip up). > > This is what our os had to say about the swelling: > > 1) Thick upper lip, cheeks and nose swelling will go down > gradually and mobility in that area will start to improve when the > nerves that are regenerating find their home. The instrument that > was used to clamp on to your upper lip and help pull the face up and > off the facial bones (wrong word here but hopefully you get the > picture) has created a tremendous amount of interior bruising. > > 2) The lower part of the cheek around the nose > will 'look' to be protruding until you get used to it. The upper > jaw when moved forward, moves the lower skin and cheek area under > the nose forward because that is the slant (from lower nose to upper > jaw bone) that was created when the upper jaw was moved forward. > When all the swelling has subsided you will be grateful for this > slant because that is part of what helps the total face > look 'perfect.' > > 3) Don't hope to have all swelling gone until at least > six months post surgery. > > , this are our os's comments to our same questions that > you have asked here. We have noticed that now, after the six week > post op mark, her swelling is receding faster. Hope this helps some. > > > > > > maxilla surgery > > > > > > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where > they > > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and > still > > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be > more > > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the > base of > > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- --- > ----------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 , what an incredible guy! maxilla surgery > > > > > > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where > they > > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and > still > > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be > more > > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the > base of > > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- --- > ----------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 , what an incredible guy! maxilla surgery > > > > > > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where > they > > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and > still > > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be > more > > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the > base of > > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- --- > ----------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 , what an incredible guy! maxilla surgery > > > > > > i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where > they > > moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and > still > > looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be > more > > swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is > > there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the > base of > > my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- --- > ----------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 , I, too, had a BIG problem with how big my top lip looked after surgery. However, it wasn't until about 7 weeks that the swelling went down enough for me to like it and has gone down even more. I'm 12 weeks post-op now and I love my lips. My lower cheeks and around the bottom of my nose is still slightly swollen (I kind of favor Fievel of " Fievel Goes West " LOL!)...but it's getting better. Give it time. The swelling can take a good 6 months or more to disappear. Smooches maxilla surgery i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where they moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and still looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be more swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the base of my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 , I, too, had a BIG problem with how big my top lip looked after surgery. However, it wasn't until about 7 weeks that the swelling went down enough for me to like it and has gone down even more. I'm 12 weeks post-op now and I love my lips. My lower cheeks and around the bottom of my nose is still slightly swollen (I kind of favor Fievel of " Fievel Goes West " LOL!)...but it's getting better. Give it time. The swelling can take a good 6 months or more to disappear. Smooches maxilla surgery i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where they moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and still looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be more swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the base of my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 , I, too, had a BIG problem with how big my top lip looked after surgery. However, it wasn't until about 7 weeks that the swelling went down enough for me to like it and has gone down even more. I'm 12 weeks post-op now and I love my lips. My lower cheeks and around the bottom of my nose is still slightly swollen (I kind of favor Fievel of " Fievel Goes West " LOL!)...but it's getting better. Give it time. The swelling can take a good 6 months or more to disappear. Smooches maxilla surgery i am almost 5 weeks removed from surgery on my upper jaw where they moved it forward some. however, my upper lip seems thick and still looks big to me. is it supposed to or could there possibly be more swelling/?? i am not liking how its looking right now. also, is there any chance that the lower part of my cheeks around the base of my nose is still swollen?? any help would be greatly appreciated ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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