A religious type for everyone

[Guest guest]

Well, Shiloh, here's where we part ways, my friend...

" This experience is a religious type for everyone. "

Nope. For me, a medical one. (I believe in ethics, but not religion.

You won't change me about that, I think, and I have no wish to change

you.)

I'm certainly in favor of anybody finding strength that's needed,

wherever the source.

I only ask that those who draw strength from religion respect those

of us who find it elsewhere, as well. Please.

You wanna talk about what Bach did for me in the recovery room? I'm

good to go on that one. Kept me sane. Or at least as sane as I am

today.

Cammie

> Get the gravol shot when you wake up in recovery

> I would have puked but..

>

> How about writing down some scriptures about anxiety?

> Put them in your wallet.

>

> Making yourself a nice tape that will keep your spirits up.

> And remind yourself that your faith as a Christian says this is

into

> god's hands and whatever he wills will happen.

>

> This experience is a religious type for everyone.

> The experience of the surgery, the eating/sucking food.

> You will be tested in your strength and resolve, you have your

faith

> you should use it to learn from this experience and grow in your

> particular faith.

>

> Shiloh

[Guest guest]

> > Get the gravol shot when you wake up in recovery

> > I would have puked but..

> >

> > How about writing down some scriptures about anxiety?

> > Put them in your wallet.

> >

> > Making yourself a nice tape that will keep your spirits up.

> > And remind yourself that your faith as a Christian says this is

> into

> > god's hands and whatever he wills will happen.

> >

> > This experience is a religious type for everyone.

> > The experience of the surgery, the eating/sucking food.

> > You will be tested in your strength and resolve, you have your

> faith

> > you should use it to learn from this experience and grow in your

> > particular faith.

> >

> > Shiloh

[Guest guest]

> > Get the gravol shot when you wake up in recovery

> > I would have puked but..

> >

> > How about writing down some scriptures about anxiety?

> > Put them in your wallet.

> >

> > Making yourself a nice tape that will keep your spirits up.

> > And remind yourself that your faith as a Christian says this is

> into

> > god's hands and whatever he wills will happen.

> >

> > This experience is a religious type for everyone.

> > The experience of the surgery, the eating/sucking food.

> > You will be tested in your strength and resolve, you have your

> faith

> > you should use it to learn from this experience and grow in your

> > particular faith.

> >

> > Shiloh

[Guest guest]

I have to wade into this one, knowing both Shiloh and Cammie

privately off the sites, and they knowing me. I do not believe in

organized religion, but I am a student of both western and eastern

thought, and one might say spirituality, or philosophy. I hate to put

a label on it, though.

Cammie's not as comfortable, nor am I, when these sites get off the

topic of surgery and recovery, and veer into discussions of religion

and other hot topics (politics included). My personal opinions on

those topics don't matter here, they are just that, personal, and if

I want discussion or validation on that, there are plenty of other

groups to go to. When we get into these kinds of discussions, it can

alienate people. I have withdrawn from many a group because of the

frictions caused by people arguing about their beliefs.

So while I don't want to discourage Shiloh for trying to help someone

through what can be a difficult time emotionally, I support Cammie's

wish to keep religion out of it.

That is, unless anybody wants to talk about zen, in which case, you

can e-mail me privately : >

> > > Get the gravol shot when you wake up in recovery

> > > I would have puked but..

> > >

> > > How about writing down some scriptures about anxiety?

> > > Put them in your wallet.

> > >

> > > Making yourself a nice tape that will keep your spirits up.

> > > And remind yourself that your faith as a Christian says this is

> > into

> > > god's hands and whatever he wills will happen.

> > >

> > > This experience is a religious type for everyone.

> > > The experience of the surgery, the eating/sucking food.

> > > You will be tested in your strength and resolve, you have your

> > faith

> > > you should use it to learn from this experience and grow in

your

> > > particular faith.

> > >

> > > Shiloh

> To Shiloh and Cammie, and anyone who wd care to respond.

> I just have put my two cents in regard to the religious aspect of

> this surgery. I am been kind of turned off in recent years by

> organized religion. I think mostly because religion for centuries

has

> been the root of all evil. Christ's ideas and words are nothing

short

> of beautiful, and truly in the image of god. It is however man's

> twisting and actions of those words to promote his own selfish

needs

> and instil fear that has made religion corrupt. Most wars are

fought

> due to religious conflicts. I am however a big believer in

> spirituality.

> Before I had this surgery quite a few people went to temple or

church

> and prayed for me. My mother made an appointment with the rabbi. He

> took out the Torah and she and the rabbi prayed that my surgery wd

go

> well and that my brother and sister-inlaw wd have a baby. They have

> been trying for 7yrs. This was there third try with invitro. The

next

> day my mom claims she had an angelic experience. Where she felt

this

> warmth arounds her and saw everything outside really clearly.

> Normally she does not see very clear due to glaucoma. She thought

she

> had died and was in heaven. She heard a voice tell her that her

prays

> wd be answered. Needless to say my sister-inlaw is in her fourth

> month of pregnancy and she is doing great. The doctor cd not get

over

> how well my jaw surgery went. He is an excellent surgeon but he

told

> me in 25 years of doing this surgery this is probably one of his

best

> surgeries ever. My jaw easily moved exactly where he wanted it with

> no complications. He said my surgery was text book perfect.

> Bottom line is that I know the power of pray worked here. In recent

> years I have been amazed how when I prayed for help I got it. The

> medical establishment excepts that there is something beneficial to

> the power of pray. I do feel spirtual presence around me quite

often

> I am not saying we dont have to take action but I do believe that

as

> the saying goes God help those who help themselves. However if one

> chooses to find spirituality whether it is through religion or

> whatever way, I personally feel this surgery is religious

> experience.

> I am not trying to change ur viewpoint Cammie, just want to give

you

> a different prespective. U seem to be a very kind and caring soul,

so

> to me u are spiritual even if u see that as just being ethical.

> God Bless,

[Guest guest]

I have to wade into this one, knowing both Shiloh and Cammie

privately off the sites, and they knowing me. I do not believe in

organized religion, but I am a student of both western and eastern

thought, and one might say spirituality, or philosophy. I hate to put

a label on it, though.

Cammie's not as comfortable, nor am I, when these sites get off the

topic of surgery and recovery, and veer into discussions of religion

and other hot topics (politics included). My personal opinions on

those topics don't matter here, they are just that, personal, and if

I want discussion or validation on that, there are plenty of other

groups to go to. When we get into these kinds of discussions, it can

alienate people. I have withdrawn from many a group because of the

frictions caused by people arguing about their beliefs.

So while I don't want to discourage Shiloh for trying to help someone

through what can be a difficult time emotionally, I support Cammie's

wish to keep religion out of it.

That is, unless anybody wants to talk about zen, in which case, you

can e-mail me privately : >

> > > Get the gravol shot when you wake up in recovery

> > > I would have puked but..

> > >

> > > How about writing down some scriptures about anxiety?

> > > Put them in your wallet.

> > >

> > > Making yourself a nice tape that will keep your spirits up.

> > > And remind yourself that your faith as a Christian says this is

> > into

> > > god's hands and whatever he wills will happen.

> > >

> > > This experience is a religious type for everyone.

> > > The experience of the surgery, the eating/sucking food.

> > > You will be tested in your strength and resolve, you have your

> > faith

> > > you should use it to learn from this experience and grow in

your

> > > particular faith.

> > >

> > > Shiloh

> To Shiloh and Cammie, and anyone who wd care to respond.

> I just have put my two cents in regard to the religious aspect of

> this surgery. I am been kind of turned off in recent years by

> organized religion. I think mostly because religion for centuries

has

> been the root of all evil. Christ's ideas and words are nothing

short

> of beautiful, and truly in the image of god. It is however man's

> twisting and actions of those words to promote his own selfish

needs

> and instil fear that has made religion corrupt. Most wars are

fought

> due to religious conflicts. I am however a big believer in

> spirituality.

> Before I had this surgery quite a few people went to temple or

church

> and prayed for me. My mother made an appointment with the rabbi. He

> took out the Torah and she and the rabbi prayed that my surgery wd

go

> well and that my brother and sister-inlaw wd have a baby. They have

> been trying for 7yrs. This was there third try with invitro. The

next

> day my mom claims she had an angelic experience. Where she felt

this

> warmth arounds her and saw everything outside really clearly.

> Normally she does not see very clear due to glaucoma. She thought

she

> had died and was in heaven. She heard a voice tell her that her

prays

> wd be answered. Needless to say my sister-inlaw is in her fourth

> month of pregnancy and she is doing great. The doctor cd not get

over

> how well my jaw surgery went. He is an excellent surgeon but he

told

> me in 25 years of doing this surgery this is probably one of his

best

> surgeries ever. My jaw easily moved exactly where he wanted it with

> no complications. He said my surgery was text book perfect.

> Bottom line is that I know the power of pray worked here. In recent

> years I have been amazed how when I prayed for help I got it. The

> medical establishment excepts that there is something beneficial to

> the power of pray. I do feel spirtual presence around me quite

often

> I am not saying we dont have to take action but I do believe that

as

> the saying goes God help those who help themselves. However if one

> chooses to find spirituality whether it is through religion or

> whatever way, I personally feel this surgery is religious

> experience.

> I am not trying to change ur viewpoint Cammie, just want to give

you

> a different prespective. U seem to be a very kind and caring soul,

so

> to me u are spiritual even if u see that as just being ethical.

> God Bless,

[Guest guest]

hey all... i am sorry if i offended anyone by bringing up my faith.

i honestly didn't mean anything by it, i didn't mean to suggest that

people who aren't christians will have a harder time. that couldn't

be farther from the truth. religion and spirituality is very

personal and a very sensitive subject. its true what shiloh said -

each person pulls strength from different sources. and i appreciate

shiloh for encouraging me in my personal area of strength.

this is a rough and scary time for me and i know everyone on this

site has either gone through it or is about to at some point.

seriously, a huge source of strength has just been reading on this

site about other people's success stories (and yes, even other's

struggles). especially your's cammie... i've seen your name on this

site more than anyone's and i think its awesome that you've been such

an encouragement to so many people.

anyway, again, i hope no one was offended. my surgery is tomorrow

and yes i'm still scared, but not as much as i was before. i feel

like i'm prepared in the practical sense: my house is clean, my

fridge is stocked, my family is ready to take care of me. so now i

just have to get through the hard part. i'll be so glad when i'm on

the other side of this experience and i promise to come back to this

site and answer anyone's questions who are still pre-op.

thanks to everyone for being so encouraging!

> > Get the gravol shot when you wake up in recovery

> > I would have puked but..

> >

> > How about writing down some scriptures about anxiety?

> > Put them in your wallet.

> >

> > Making yourself a nice tape that will keep your spirits up.

> > And remind yourself that your faith as a Christian says this is

> into

> > god's hands and whatever he wills will happen.

> >

> > This experience is a religious type for everyone.

> > The experience of the surgery, the eating/sucking food.

> > You will be tested in your strength and resolve, you have your

> faith

> > you should use it to learn from this experience and grow in your

> > particular faith.

> >

> > Shiloh

[Guest guest]

It's always nice to hear that one has been helpful, and thanks!

I'll be thinking about you, and I'll bet you'll do just fine! Let us

know, when you feel up to it, how you're doing.

Cammie

> > > Get the gravol shot when you wake up in recovery

> > > I would have puked but..

> > >

> > > How about writing down some scriptures about anxiety?

> > > Put them in your wallet.

> > >

> > > Making yourself a nice tape that will keep your spirits up.

> > > And remind yourself that your faith as a Christian says this is

> > into

> > > god's hands and whatever he wills will happen.

> > >

> > > This experience is a religious type for everyone.

> > > The experience of the surgery, the eating/sucking food.

> > > You will be tested in your strength and resolve, you have your

> > faith

> > > you should use it to learn from this experience and grow in

your

> > > particular faith.

> > >

> > > Shiloh