Guest guest Posted August 18, 2002 Report Share Posted August 18, 2002 Hi rickys mom, My name is and I'm also new to this group. One thing, I don't understand why they didn't give your son a central line and put him on TPN to help rest the pancreas. The purpose for not eating is to let the pancreas help calm down. The more it has to work, the more enzymes it produces. You said he was in UVA; which one? I spent 4 days in UVA in Charlottesville about 45 days ago. I was pretty well pleased with the care I received there. All I got was stabilization care though because they were a non-participator with my insurance. The main doctor that saw me was a Dr. Nwakakwa. I have a friend who works there in admissions and she has told me that the hospital there has a pretty good reputation for treating pancreatitis and other GI disorders. I think most everyone else here will tell you about some things you should do and have checked out. They are a whole lot more knowledgeable about this than I am. Good Luck to your son and you. Keep the Faith, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2002 Report Share Posted August 18, 2002 Hi rickys mom, My name is and I'm also new to this group. One thing, I don't understand why they didn't give your son a central line and put him on TPN to help rest the pancreas. The purpose for not eating is to let the pancreas help calm down. The more it has to work, the more enzymes it produces. You said he was in UVA; which one? I spent 4 days in UVA in Charlottesville about 45 days ago. I was pretty well pleased with the care I received there. All I got was stabilization care though because they were a non-participator with my insurance. The main doctor that saw me was a Dr. Nwakakwa. I have a friend who works there in admissions and she has told me that the hospital there has a pretty good reputation for treating pancreatitis and other GI disorders. I think most everyone else here will tell you about some things you should do and have checked out. They are a whole lot more knowledgeable about this than I am. Good Luck to your son and you. Keep the Faith, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2002 Report Share Posted August 18, 2002 > >Reply-To: pancreatitis >To: pancreatitis >Subject: help to understand >Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 04:31:56 -0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Originating-IP: 68.67.230.30 >Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.84]) by >mc1-f24.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Sun, 18 >Aug 2002 21:33:02 -0700 >Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Aug >2002 04:31:58 -0000 >Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 19 Aug 2002 04:31:55 -0000 >Received: (qmail 98438 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 04:31:55 -0000 >Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; >19 Aug 2002 04:31:55 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by >mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 04:31:57 -0000 >Received: from [66.218.67.128] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Aug >2002 04:31:57 -0000 >X-eGroups-Return: >sentto-278417-34680-1029731516-shannontuten=hotmail.com@...\ m >X-Sender: rstover1@... >X-Apparently-To: pancreatitis >Message-ID: ajpsbs+e48d (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> >User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 >X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster >X-Yahoo-Profile: rstover1306 >Mailing-List: list pancreatitis ; contact >pancreatitis-owner >Delivered-To: mailing list pancreatitis >Precedence: bulk >List-Unsubscribe: pancreatitis-unsubscribe > >Return-Path: >sentto-278417-34680-1029731516-shannontuten=hotmail.com@...\ m >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Aug 2002 04:33:02.0813 (UTC) >FILETIME=[8151E0D0:01C24739] > >My 17 yearold son began with pain a week ago, anmitted to hosp. with >acute pancreatitis high blood sugar, and very high triglycerides rea >ding of over 5000. after 2 days was sent to the universary of >vir.brought him home today after being there for a week hes so week >not eating blood sugars still high with taking 4 shots of insulin a >day plus metformin twice a day. the drs wanted to put a feeding tube >in to give his stomach and pancreatis a rest but hes overweight and >his abd. walls were to thick.he couldnt tolerate the tube down the >nose his gag relux was overactive,so food was given with only a bite >or two taken. my son looks so weak, no energy,not eating at all is >drinking water.hes still having pain. his only test were 2 cat scans >lots of blood work.Please if anyone else had sympomts like these >orknow of someone please let me know. IMso afraid my son is going to >die. i could never get a straight ans. from any dr. other than after >his sugar and lipid levels come down that the pancreatis should start >healing itself.he was transfered to the universary of vir. from our >hosp in our hometown because they thought the blood supply was cut >off from the pancreatis our hometown hosp. is where the 2 catscans >were done please if anyone can give me hope or anything i will be so >grateful. rickys mom > Rickys mom: Wow, what a story. That is tough to go through. 1st. I hope he has an enodcrinologist helping to control his diabetes. 4 shots of insulin sure is alot. esp with all the new ones available. on top of the oral med. THe doctors are right in that it would be best to totally rest the pancreas. Unfortuanately I don't know how you are going to do it without a feeding tube. I would not consider TPN an option with his blood sugars being so high and his elevated triglycerides, it can cause both. It sounds to me like what you really need is a specialist. a good GI, enodcrinologist and a dietician. Just becasue you may have seen a gastroenterologist does not mean that they are that knowledgeable about pancreatitis, esp. in a young person. good diabetic teaching is also a must. I don't know what part of the state you are in but maybe someone here can help you with names of a good doctor to see. Honestly the only thing I know about UVA is ther neurosurgery dept is tops. THe best thing I would think now is to make sure he is on a strict low fat diet, if they are wanting him on only clear liquids stick with it. If he is eating, I have found that I can tolerate small meals during the day rather than 2-3 large meals. Stay away from sport drinks they are full of sugar. You may also want ot check out these sites for more information. http://pancassociation.org/links.html Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Tuten _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2002 Report Share Posted August 18, 2002 > >Reply-To: pancreatitis >To: pancreatitis >Subject: help to understand >Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 04:31:56 -0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Originating-IP: 68.67.230.30 >Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.84]) by >mc1-f24.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Sun, 18 >Aug 2002 21:33:02 -0700 >Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Aug >2002 04:31:58 -0000 >Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 19 Aug 2002 04:31:55 -0000 >Received: (qmail 98438 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 04:31:55 -0000 >Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; >19 Aug 2002 04:31:55 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by >mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 04:31:57 -0000 >Received: from [66.218.67.128] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Aug >2002 04:31:57 -0000 >X-eGroups-Return: >sentto-278417-34680-1029731516-shannontuten=hotmail.com@...\ m >X-Sender: rstover1@... >X-Apparently-To: pancreatitis >Message-ID: ajpsbs+e48d (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> >User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 >X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster >X-Yahoo-Profile: rstover1306 >Mailing-List: list pancreatitis ; contact >pancreatitis-owner >Delivered-To: mailing list pancreatitis >Precedence: bulk >List-Unsubscribe: pancreatitis-unsubscribe > >Return-Path: >sentto-278417-34680-1029731516-shannontuten=hotmail.com@...\ m >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Aug 2002 04:33:02.0813 (UTC) >FILETIME=[8151E0D0:01C24739] > >My 17 yearold son began with pain a week ago, anmitted to hosp. with >acute pancreatitis high blood sugar, and very high triglycerides rea >ding of over 5000. after 2 days was sent to the universary of >vir.brought him home today after being there for a week hes so week >not eating blood sugars still high with taking 4 shots of insulin a >day plus metformin twice a day. the drs wanted to put a feeding tube >in to give his stomach and pancreatis a rest but hes overweight and >his abd. walls were to thick.he couldnt tolerate the tube down the >nose his gag relux was overactive,so food was given with only a bite >or two taken. my son looks so weak, no energy,not eating at all is >drinking water.hes still having pain. his only test were 2 cat scans >lots of blood work.Please if anyone else had sympomts like these >orknow of someone please let me know. IMso afraid my son is going to >die. i could never get a straight ans. from any dr. other than after >his sugar and lipid levels come down that the pancreatis should start >healing itself.he was transfered to the universary of vir. from our >hosp in our hometown because they thought the blood supply was cut >off from the pancreatis our hometown hosp. is where the 2 catscans >were done please if anyone can give me hope or anything i will be so >grateful. rickys mom > Rickys mom: Wow, what a story. That is tough to go through. 1st. I hope he has an enodcrinologist helping to control his diabetes. 4 shots of insulin sure is alot. esp with all the new ones available. on top of the oral med. THe doctors are right in that it would be best to totally rest the pancreas. Unfortuanately I don't know how you are going to do it without a feeding tube. I would not consider TPN an option with his blood sugars being so high and his elevated triglycerides, it can cause both. It sounds to me like what you really need is a specialist. a good GI, enodcrinologist and a dietician. Just becasue you may have seen a gastroenterologist does not mean that they are that knowledgeable about pancreatitis, esp. in a young person. good diabetic teaching is also a must. I don't know what part of the state you are in but maybe someone here can help you with names of a good doctor to see. Honestly the only thing I know about UVA is ther neurosurgery dept is tops. THe best thing I would think now is to make sure he is on a strict low fat diet, if they are wanting him on only clear liquids stick with it. If he is eating, I have found that I can tolerate small meals during the day rather than 2-3 large meals. Stay away from sport drinks they are full of sugar. You may also want ot check out these sites for more information. http://pancassociation.org/links.html Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Tuten _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2002 Report Share Posted August 19, 2002 Also, if you want to keep his electolyte balanced and want to avoid sports drinks, try either pedialyte or Smart Water. The pedialyte you can find in the baby food aisle. The Smart Water is made by Glaceau and you can usually find it in health food stores. I also recommend finding a GI specialist in the pancreas as well as an Endocrinologist. Try clear liquids and mushy foods, as low fat as you can find: non fat broth, miso soup (find in little packets in the asian aisle, get the one with the tofu - not the red colored broth), sugar free jello, no sugar added applesause, mashed potatoes - reduced fat or non fat mixes if you can find them, nutritional substitutes - for diabetics try Glucerna (same as Ensure and Boost) - no guarantee on taste though. . Try and cut down on the carbohydrates you give him as they will raise his trigylcerides even higher. Keep us posted on how your son is doing. Kimber -- Kimber Vallejo, CA hominid2@... Southwest Representative Pancreatitis Association, International Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2002 Report Share Posted August 19, 2002 Also, if you want to keep his electolyte balanced and want to avoid sports drinks, try either pedialyte or Smart Water. The pedialyte you can find in the baby food aisle. The Smart Water is made by Glaceau and you can usually find it in health food stores. I also recommend finding a GI specialist in the pancreas as well as an Endocrinologist. Try clear liquids and mushy foods, as low fat as you can find: non fat broth, miso soup (find in little packets in the asian aisle, get the one with the tofu - not the red colored broth), sugar free jello, no sugar added applesause, mashed potatoes - reduced fat or non fat mixes if you can find them, nutritional substitutes - for diabetics try Glucerna (same as Ensure and Boost) - no guarantee on taste though. . Try and cut down on the carbohydrates you give him as they will raise his trigylcerides even higher. Keep us posted on how your son is doing. Kimber -- Kimber Vallejo, CA hominid2@... Southwest Representative Pancreatitis Association, International Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2002 Report Share Posted August 19, 2002 Ricky's Mom I also wanted to let you know that we're here to help whenever we can. It sometimes takes a while to get back on whole foods even after being released from the hospital. My last attack, I stayed on liquids (soup and stuff0 for an additional two weeks, because I just couldn't hand regular food Also, in addition to the list I had earlier, baby food (the deserts, fruits and oatmeals only) are also helpful too (I know, no 17 year old wants to be thought they eat babyfood, but with pancreatitis, you eat what it feels you need to eat, not what you want to eat - and yes I've sometimes reverted to eating babyfood, even at work). Kimber -- Kimber Vallejo, CA hominid2@... Southwest Representative Pancreatitis Association, International Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2002 Report Share Posted August 19, 2002 Ricky's Mom I also wanted to let you know that we're here to help whenever we can. It sometimes takes a while to get back on whole foods even after being released from the hospital. My last attack, I stayed on liquids (soup and stuff0 for an additional two weeks, because I just couldn't hand regular food Also, in addition to the list I had earlier, baby food (the deserts, fruits and oatmeals only) are also helpful too (I know, no 17 year old wants to be thought they eat babyfood, but with pancreatitis, you eat what it feels you need to eat, not what you want to eat - and yes I've sometimes reverted to eating babyfood, even at work). Kimber -- Kimber Vallejo, CA hominid2@... Southwest Representative Pancreatitis Association, International Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2002 Report Share Posted August 21, 2002 Ricky Mom, They are right in seeking the advies of a dietician. You shoould check out in your area to see if they have a Diabetic Educator. We do here and she has been very useful in helping me understand my diabetis, that is cause from my pancreatits. The Educator has even giving more help, than the dietician was able to. With you and you son working with both of these people if you have them in your area, would be very educational for you both. Hope you son soon is able to get some releif from his pain. Take Care, Louie in WV help to understand > >Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 04:31:56 -0000 > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >X-Originating-IP: 68.67.230.30 > >Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.84]) by > >mc1-f24.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Sun, 18 > >Aug 2002 21:33:02 -0700 > >Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Aug > >2002 04:31:58 -0000 > >Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 19 Aug 2002 04:31:55 -0000 > >Received: (qmail 98438 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 04:31:55 -0000 > >Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; > >19 Aug 2002 04:31:55 -0000 > >Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by > >mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 04:31:57 -0000 > >Received: from [66.218.67.128] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Aug > >2002 04:31:57 -0000 > >X-eGroups-Return: > >sentto-278417-34680-1029731516-shannontuten=hotmail.com@... o.com > >X-Sender: rstover1@... > >X-Apparently-To: pancreatitis > >Message-ID: ajpsbs+e48d (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> > >User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 > >X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster > >X-Yahoo-Profile: rstover1306 > >Mailing-List: list pancreatitis ; contact > >pancreatitis-owner > >Delivered-To: mailing list pancreatitis > >Precedence: bulk > >List-Unsubscribe: pancreatitis-unsubscribe > > >Return-Path: > >sentto-278417-34680-1029731516-shannontuten=hotmail.com@... o.com > >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Aug 2002 04:33:02.0813 (UTC) > >FILETIME=[8151E0D0:01C24739] > > > >My 17 yearold son began with pain a week ago, anmitted to hosp. with > >acute pancreatitis high blood sugar, and very high triglycerides rea > >ding of over 5000. after 2 days was sent to the universary of > >vir.brought him home today after being there for a week hes so week > >not eating blood sugars still high with taking 4 shots of insulin a > >day plus metformin twice a day. the drs wanted to put a feeding tube > >in to give his stomach and pancreatis a rest but hes overweight and > >his abd. walls were to thick.he couldnt tolerate the tube down the > >nose his gag relux was overactive,so food was given with only a bite > >or two taken. my son looks so weak, no energy,not eating at all is > >drinking water.hes still having pain. his only test were 2 cat scans > >lots of blood work.Please if anyone else had sympomts like these > >orknow of someone please let me know. IMso afraid my son is going to > >die. i could never get a straight ans. from any dr. other than after > >his sugar and lipid levels come down that the pancreatis should start > >healing itself.he was transfered to the universary of vir. from our > >hosp in our hometown because they thought the blood supply was cut > >off from the pancreatis our hometown hosp. is where the 2 catscans > >were done please if anyone can give me hope or anything i will be so > >grateful. rickys mom > > > Rickys mom: > Wow, what a story. That is tough to go through. 1st. I hope he has an > enodcrinologist helping to control his diabetes. 4 shots of insulin sure is > alot. esp with all the new ones available. on top of the oral med. THe > doctors are right in that it would be best to totally rest the pancreas. > Unfortuanately I don't know how you are going to do it without a feeding > tube. I would not consider TPN an option with his blood sugars being so high > and his elevated triglycerides, it can cause both. It sounds to me like what > you really need is a specialist. a good GI, enodcrinologist and a dietician. > Just becasue you may have seen a gastroenterologist does not mean that they > are that knowledgeable about pancreatitis, esp. in a young person. good > diabetic teaching is also a must. > I don't know what part of the state you are in but maybe someone here can > help you with names of a good doctor to see. Honestly the only thing I know > about UVA is ther neurosurgery dept is tops. > THe best thing I would think now is to make sure he is on a strict low fat > diet, if they are wanting him on only clear liquids stick with it. If he is > eating, I have found that I can tolerate small meals during the day rather > than 2-3 large meals. Stay away from sport drinks they are full of sugar. > You may also want ot check out these sites for more information. > http://pancassociation.org/links.html > Sorry I couldn't be of more help. > > Tuten > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > > PANCREATITIS Association, Intl. > Online e-mail group > > To reply to this message hit & quot;reply & quot; or send an e-mail to: Pancreatitis (AT) Yahoo > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2002 Report Share Posted August 21, 2002 Ricky Mom, They are right in seeking the advies of a dietician. You shoould check out in your area to see if they have a Diabetic Educator. We do here and she has been very useful in helping me understand my diabetis, that is cause from my pancreatits. The Educator has even giving more help, than the dietician was able to. With you and you son working with both of these people if you have them in your area, would be very educational for you both. Hope you son soon is able to get some releif from his pain. Take Care, Louie in WV help to understand > >Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 04:31:56 -0000 > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >X-Originating-IP: 68.67.230.30 > >Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.84]) by > >mc1-f24.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Sun, 18 > >Aug 2002 21:33:02 -0700 > >Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Aug > >2002 04:31:58 -0000 > >Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 19 Aug 2002 04:31:55 -0000 > >Received: (qmail 98438 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 04:31:55 -0000 > >Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; > >19 Aug 2002 04:31:55 -0000 > >Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by > >mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 04:31:57 -0000 > >Received: from [66.218.67.128] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Aug > >2002 04:31:57 -0000 > >X-eGroups-Return: > >sentto-278417-34680-1029731516-shannontuten=hotmail.com@... o.com > >X-Sender: rstover1@... > >X-Apparently-To: pancreatitis > >Message-ID: ajpsbs+e48d (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> > >User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 > >X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster > >X-Yahoo-Profile: rstover1306 > >Mailing-List: list pancreatitis ; contact > >pancreatitis-owner > >Delivered-To: mailing list pancreatitis > >Precedence: bulk > >List-Unsubscribe: pancreatitis-unsubscribe > > >Return-Path: > >sentto-278417-34680-1029731516-shannontuten=hotmail.com@... o.com > >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Aug 2002 04:33:02.0813 (UTC) > >FILETIME=[8151E0D0:01C24739] > > > >My 17 yearold son began with pain a week ago, anmitted to hosp. with > >acute pancreatitis high blood sugar, and very high triglycerides rea > >ding of over 5000. after 2 days was sent to the universary of > >vir.brought him home today after being there for a week hes so week > >not eating blood sugars still high with taking 4 shots of insulin a > >day plus metformin twice a day. the drs wanted to put a feeding tube > >in to give his stomach and pancreatis a rest but hes overweight and > >his abd. walls were to thick.he couldnt tolerate the tube down the > >nose his gag relux was overactive,so food was given with only a bite > >or two taken. my son looks so weak, no energy,not eating at all is > >drinking water.hes still having pain. his only test were 2 cat scans > >lots of blood work.Please if anyone else had sympomts like these > >orknow of someone please let me know. IMso afraid my son is going to > >die. i could never get a straight ans. from any dr. other than after > >his sugar and lipid levels come down that the pancreatis should start > >healing itself.he was transfered to the universary of vir. from our > >hosp in our hometown because they thought the blood supply was cut > >off from the pancreatis our hometown hosp. is where the 2 catscans > >were done please if anyone can give me hope or anything i will be so > >grateful. rickys mom > > > Rickys mom: > Wow, what a story. That is tough to go through. 1st. I hope he has an > enodcrinologist helping to control his diabetes. 4 shots of insulin sure is > alot. esp with all the new ones available. on top of the oral med. THe > doctors are right in that it would be best to totally rest the pancreas. > Unfortuanately I don't know how you are going to do it without a feeding > tube. I would not consider TPN an option with his blood sugars being so high > and his elevated triglycerides, it can cause both. It sounds to me like what > you really need is a specialist. a good GI, enodcrinologist and a dietician. > Just becasue you may have seen a gastroenterologist does not mean that they > are that knowledgeable about pancreatitis, esp. in a young person. good > diabetic teaching is also a must. > I don't know what part of the state you are in but maybe someone here can > help you with names of a good doctor to see. Honestly the only thing I know > about UVA is ther neurosurgery dept is tops. > THe best thing I would think now is to make sure he is on a strict low fat > diet, if they are wanting him on only clear liquids stick with it. If he is > eating, I have found that I can tolerate small meals during the day rather > than 2-3 large meals. Stay away from sport drinks they are full of sugar. > You may also want ot check out these sites for more information. > http://pancassociation.org/links.html > Sorry I couldn't be of more help. > > Tuten > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > > PANCREATITIS Association, Intl. > Online e-mail group > > To reply to this message hit & quot;reply & quot; or send an e-mail to: Pancreatitis (AT) Yahoo > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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