Re: ALA without DMSA?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/28/2001 6:43:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,

jannarone@... writes:

> Andy has suggested that ALA alone is ok.

Not to my knowledge nor from what he wrote me a year ago

[Guest guest]

Some time ago I tested high in copper. Should I retest for copper before

using DMSA and ALA or ALA alone?

How do I know if my copper levels are too high for ALA chelation?

Is the use of zinc supposed to reduce copper levels? I know this was posted

before, but I am not sure how to reduce copper levels.

Does anyone know why high copper happens in patients who are chemically

sensitive?

It seems common that those who are chemically sensitive have high copper.

Thanks, SJ

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/29/01 8:20:31 AM Central Standard Time,

moriam@... writes:

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/ANDY_INDEX

>

>

I looked on the convenient above notes, and found the copper notation, with

the mention of a level of " 50 " on a certain test. I cannot determine what

company to send (is it a hair sample?) to. Is it Great Smokies?

My high copper level is from some years ago and I don't recall how the test

was done; however I did have the Clifford evaluation for dental materials and

used a Hal Huggins doctor to remove my amalgams, Dr. Mark Breiner. I took the

oral chelation that Hal Huggins recommends from Matrix (if memory serves.)

Does everyone determine copper levels before chelating?

Why did my doctor not test for copper prior to ordering DMPS IV therapy?

Also, since I had ten DMPS treatments and four weeks of ALA on and off, might

my copper be in better shape or is it unwise to speculate on this?

If anyone can answer the above, please copy my questions and answer below, so

that I'll remember the q. Thanks, SJ

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/29/2001 6:20:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,

moriam@... writes:

> I've made quite a habit out of knowing what Andy says,

I've followed the Cutler protocol for 2 years. I had VERY high methyl mercury

toxicity (and Pb and As, too) from years of bad fish (along with amalgams and

vaccines).

Andy last told me personally about a year ago to NOT take ALA without DMSA. I

only use ALA to remove Hg from brain (no other metals now show in other

tests).

I expect I probably have some Hg in brain, even though DMSA could have gotten

rid of some, and 2 ALA sessions likely also did. I don't want to chance

removing Hg from brain to merely have it redeposit in body. ALA won't hold Hg

long enough to reach excretory routes, from what I understand.

Thus I am still waiting to hear from Andy. Which isn't nearly as easy to do

as it used to be - possibly because I had a bad ALA experience, my first

time, and reported on it (?)

I will check on the archives though. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

I answered one of my own questions by reading at the site posted re: Andy

Cutler. As fate would have it Doctor's Data is what I have been using. Once I

saw the post I remembered that is where my tests have been sent. Now, I am

wondering if I should ask my current physician to reorder copper levels.

Anyone have any thoughts? I suppose the answer is to have them done, but I am

going to chelate anyway because I have decided that mercury as high as mine

is probably better treated than not. SJ

[Guest guest]

> > Andy has suggested that ALA alone is ok.

> Not to my knowledge nor from what he wrote me a year ago

Andy most certainly does say ALA alone is okay, in many

circustances, and with a few caveats. I've heard him say

so dozens of times. I've been cataloging things he says.

If you'd like to read more about some of what Andy has said

on this particular topic, you can go here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/ANDY_INDEX

I would suggest that you read the following 2 sections:

CHELATION AGENTS: ALA, DMSA, DMPS (includes comparisons, which to use

& when)

CHELATION AGENTS: ALA

Without checking, I'd guess that these 2 sections include

a number of instances of Andy saying ALA alone is fine,

and also some discussion of the caveats. (The 2 main caveats

are: if you have had RECENT mercury exposure ALA is considered

higher risk, and if you have high copper....) (And those both

apply to ANY use of ALA, with or without DMSA.)

Of course, you can read other stuff if you wish, as well.

I may not know much about mercury detox or chemistry, but

I've made quite a habit out of knowing what Andy says, and

being able to more-or-less repeat it (with my own wording,

analogies, and such).

Moria

[Guest guest]

> > I've made quite a habit out of knowing what Andy says,

> I've followed the Cutler protocol for 2 years. I had VERY high

methyl mercury

> toxicity (and Pb and As, too) from years of bad fish (along with

amalgams and

> vaccines).

>

> Andy last told me personally about a year ago to NOT take ALA

without DMSA.

I don't remember what I said (I talk to a lot of people) but that

would be an unusual thing for me to say that would be based on an

unusual situation.

>I

> only use ALA to remove Hg from brain (no other metals now show in

other

> tests).

>

> I expect I probably have some Hg in brain, even though DMSA could

have gotten

> rid of some, and 2 ALA sessions likely also did.

2 ALA sessions will not reduce brain mercury significantly, nor with

any amount of DMSA you could have taken in the last year.

>I don't want to

chance

> removing Hg from brain to merely have it redeposit in body. ALA

won't hold Hg

> long enough to reach excretory routes, from what I understand.

I do believe you understand incorrectly.

>

> Thus I am still waiting to hear from Andy. Which isn't nearly as

easy to do

> as it used to be - possibly because I had a bad ALA experience, my

first

> time, and reported on it (?)

Possibly because you are aggravating, waste very large amounts of time

discussing irrelevant stuff, do random things mixing conflicting

advice from different sources and then want me to sort it out for you,

and write in the above " yellow journalistic " style which detracts

greatly from communication.

Please also note that you are in essence claiming to have gotten much

information from me, that it didn't really help, and that you now want

much MORE information. I already gave you the best information I

have. If it isn't working (possibilities span the spectrum from it

isn't right for your personal situation to you didn't actually use it)

then I don't see it as productive to provide it again, or provide

more.

I also don't like to spend a lot of time in the details of being sick

- I would rather talk about how to get better.

Many people talk to me about mercury and other health topics of mutual

interest in great detail, and I spend lots of time going over what

they said and replying because they are trying to convey real

information and discuss things related to solving problems and getting

better. Some other people spend a lot of time corresponding about

being sick, about people's motives in corresponding, or doctor's

motives in prescribing, and generally " stir the pot to watch it boil, "

as in your comment about my possible motivation for not responding to

you based on your experiences with ALA. I don't spend my time

corresponding with these people. As many on list who have

communciated privately with me know I can sometimes take a looooong

time to respond - my time is limited, it is valuable to me, and I

share it with people who are trying to do something I respect and can

participate productively in. I wish I had more time for that and

needed less time for responses to stuff like this.

Andy

>

> I will check on the archives though. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

> I answered one of my own questions by reading at the site posted re:

Andy

> Cutler. As fate would have it Doctor's Data is what I have been

using. Once I

> saw the post I remembered that is where my tests have been sent.

Now, I am

> wondering if I should ask my current physician to reorder copper

levels.

> Anyone have any thoughts? I suppose the answer is to have them done,

but I am

> going to chelate anyway because I have decided that mercury as high

as mine

> is probably better treated than not. SJ

There is no need to do the test if you already made the decision and

the result isn't going to change it.

You can take 50 mg zinc 4 times a day and 500-1000 mcg molybdenum 3-4

times a day to reduce copper absorption, and milk thistle, taurine,

and glycine to increase it's excretion.

Andy

>

>

>