Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 In a message dated 1/9/2003 8:24:50 PM Central Standard Time, herbertdana@... writes: > And, I'm hoping that with two lists we can all end the fighting. > Stop fighting? Aw shucks! This feels like one big happy dysfunctional family! ..........now why you wanna go breaka up dat..... boudreaux? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Thanks Sol... I was ready to leave the group. After more than 1 year of lurking and a lot of reading and eprimenting I really believed could offer something here (even though I'm just an M. Sc. (Mech Eng) Imperial College, London + MBA (LBS)) . It seems that some people here do not welcome new input and information and defend their 'castle' (that is how they behave about such serious matters) by implying that anybody except them is either stupid or unqualified. I will make every effort not to cause arguments in the future and I will try to post my contributions with the least possible bias (not that I believe I was really biased - I was using Andy's protocol and will probably use it again - but I also did other things that helped me greatly...). Thanks again, () > All, > > I feel like I'm being asked to take sides on the bickering between Moria and > . Although I prefer not to take sides I'm going to side with . > Moria, Andy and I have had several off-line philosophical conversations > about what is right to post and what is dangerous to post. My position is > that anyone has a right to post about anything they want that they believe > is relevant to adult metal chelation. As long as you don't slam one another > please share your beliefs, experiences and opinions. Period. > > On a philosophical note, I don't have great respect for people who argue > convincingly. There seems to be some ego on this group about being logically > correct. I learned a long time ago that I was not very good at logic or at > arguing (despite having a Stanford education, really good mathematical > skills and being really successful in the computer industry.) So, I don't > argue with people because I discovered that I'd lose arguments even though I > knew in my heart that I didn't agree with what the person said - I guess I'm > one of those people who are unarmed when it comes to battles of wit. > > So, given my personal bias combined with the fact that I'm the list owner > I'm not going to take sides when people bicker and I'm not going to use > " logic " as a criteria for what to censor on this group. We are all > responsible adults taking our lives into our own hands when we try different > things. Andy's protocol has risks, people have been hurt by it, but the list > doesn't spend a lot of energy underscoring that point. I follow Andy's > protocol, along with other methods, and I take responsibility for my own > life. I believe that there are quite a number of perspectives on healing > from mercury poisoning, and I would guess that all have risks. > > As much as I have tremendous respect for the work that Andy has done and for > how helpful his protocol has been to me personally I don't knock or discount > other methods. > > Sol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Thanks Sol... I was ready to leave the group. After more than 1 year of lurking and a lot of reading and eprimenting I really believed could offer something here (even though I'm just an M. Sc. (Mech Eng) Imperial College, London + MBA (LBS)) . It seems that some people here do not welcome new input and information and defend their 'castle' (that is how they behave about such serious matters) by implying that anybody except them is either stupid or unqualified. I will make every effort not to cause arguments in the future and I will try to post my contributions with the least possible bias (not that I believe I was really biased - I was using Andy's protocol and will probably use it again - but I also did other things that helped me greatly...). Thanks again, () > All, > > I feel like I'm being asked to take sides on the bickering between Moria and > . Although I prefer not to take sides I'm going to side with . > Moria, Andy and I have had several off-line philosophical conversations > about what is right to post and what is dangerous to post. My position is > that anyone has a right to post about anything they want that they believe > is relevant to adult metal chelation. As long as you don't slam one another > please share your beliefs, experiences and opinions. Period. > > On a philosophical note, I don't have great respect for people who argue > convincingly. There seems to be some ego on this group about being logically > correct. I learned a long time ago that I was not very good at logic or at > arguing (despite having a Stanford education, really good mathematical > skills and being really successful in the computer industry.) So, I don't > argue with people because I discovered that I'd lose arguments even though I > knew in my heart that I didn't agree with what the person said - I guess I'm > one of those people who are unarmed when it comes to battles of wit. > > So, given my personal bias combined with the fact that I'm the list owner > I'm not going to take sides when people bicker and I'm not going to use > " logic " as a criteria for what to censor on this group. We are all > responsible adults taking our lives into our own hands when we try different > things. Andy's protocol has risks, people have been hurt by it, but the list > doesn't spend a lot of energy underscoring that point. I follow Andy's > protocol, along with other methods, and I take responsibility for my own > life. I believe that there are quite a number of perspectives on healing > from mercury poisoning, and I would guess that all have risks. > > As much as I have tremendous respect for the work that Andy has done and for > how helpful his protocol has been to me personally I don't knock or discount > other methods. > > Sol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 , I have an interest in this group being more holistically oriented and I hope you do stay and contribute to that effort. Again, while Andy's work has served many many people I do think that there's room for mercury healing beyond the pharmaceutical/supplement paradigm. I do hope that this group can tolerate everyone and their beliefs and experiments. I'm wondering if it isn't time for a new group, specific to Andy's protocol. Then those who want to focus on that work can join that list. I'd, of course, join both. Would someone like to start such a group? Sol Re: For the record ... > Thanks Sol... > I was ready to leave the group. After more than 1 year of lurking > and a lot of reading and eprimenting I really believed could offer > something here (even though I'm just an M. Sc. (Mech Eng) Imperial > College, London + MBA (LBS)) . It seems that some people here do not > welcome new input and information and defend their 'castle' (that is > how they behave about such serious matters) by implying that anybody > except them is either stupid or unqualified. > I will make every effort not to cause arguments in the future and I > will try to post my contributions with the least possible bias (not > that I believe I was really biased - I was using Andy's protocol and > will probably use it again - but I also did other things that helped > me greatly...). > Thanks again, > () > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 , I have an interest in this group being more holistically oriented and I hope you do stay and contribute to that effort. Again, while Andy's work has served many many people I do think that there's room for mercury healing beyond the pharmaceutical/supplement paradigm. I do hope that this group can tolerate everyone and their beliefs and experiments. I'm wondering if it isn't time for a new group, specific to Andy's protocol. Then those who want to focus on that work can join that list. I'd, of course, join both. Would someone like to start such a group? Sol Re: For the record ... > Thanks Sol... > I was ready to leave the group. After more than 1 year of lurking > and a lot of reading and eprimenting I really believed could offer > something here (even though I'm just an M. Sc. (Mech Eng) Imperial > College, London + MBA (LBS)) . It seems that some people here do not > welcome new input and information and defend their 'castle' (that is > how they behave about such serious matters) by implying that anybody > except them is either stupid or unqualified. > I will make every effort not to cause arguments in the future and I > will try to post my contributions with the least possible bias (not > that I believe I was really biased - I was using Andy's protocol and > will probably use it again - but I also did other things that helped > me greatly...). > Thanks again, > () > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 , I have an interest in this group being more holistically oriented and I hope you do stay and contribute to that effort. Again, while Andy's work has served many many people I do think that there's room for mercury healing beyond the pharmaceutical/supplement paradigm. I do hope that this group can tolerate everyone and their beliefs and experiments. I'm wondering if it isn't time for a new group, specific to Andy's protocol. Then those who want to focus on that work can join that list. I'd, of course, join both. Would someone like to start such a group? Sol Re: For the record ... > Thanks Sol... > I was ready to leave the group. After more than 1 year of lurking > and a lot of reading and eprimenting I really believed could offer > something here (even though I'm just an M. Sc. (Mech Eng) Imperial > College, London + MBA (LBS)) . It seems that some people here do not > welcome new input and information and defend their 'castle' (that is > how they behave about such serious matters) by implying that anybody > except them is either stupid or unqualified. > I will make every effort not to cause arguments in the future and I > will try to post my contributions with the least possible bias (not > that I believe I was really biased - I was using Andy's protocol and > will probably use it again - but I also did other things that helped > me greatly...). > Thanks again, > () > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 When I joined this group, I thought it was about adult-metal-chelation. Then....I thought Moria was the moderator, and this group was for people who were following Andy's protocol. I am confused. I am using Andy's DMSA/ALA protocol, AND I am doing other things that REALLY help (and which I learned about from ). I think there should be two groups, and I would like to belong to both! Thanks, Dana on 01/09/2003 6:45 PM, Sol Lederman at s_lederman@... wrote: , I have an interest in this group being more holistically oriented and I hope you do stay and contribute to that effort. Again, while Andy's work has served many many people I do think that there's room for mercury healing beyond the pharmaceutical/supplement paradigm. I do hope that this group can tolerate everyone and their beliefs and experiments. I'm wondering if it isn't time for a new group, specific to Andy's protocol. Then those who want to focus on that work can join that list. I'd, of course, join both. Would someone like to start such a group? Sol Re: For the record ... > Thanks Sol... > I was ready to leave the group. After more than 1 year of lurking > and a lot of reading and eprimenting I really believed could offer > something here (even though I'm just an M. Sc. (Mech Eng) Imperial > College, London + MBA (LBS)) . It seems that some people here do not > welcome new input and information and defend their 'castle' (that is > how they behave about such serious matters) by implying that anybody > except them is either stupid or unqualified. > I will make every effort not to cause arguments in the future and I > will try to post my contributions with the least possible bias (not > that I believe I was really biased - I was using Andy's protocol and > will probably use it again - but I also did other things that helped > me greatly...). > Thanks again, > () > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 When I joined this group, I thought it was about adult-metal-chelation. Then....I thought Moria was the moderator, and this group was for people who were following Andy's protocol. I am confused. I am using Andy's DMSA/ALA protocol, AND I am doing other things that REALLY help (and which I learned about from ). I think there should be two groups, and I would like to belong to both! Thanks, Dana on 01/09/2003 6:45 PM, Sol Lederman at s_lederman@... wrote: , I have an interest in this group being more holistically oriented and I hope you do stay and contribute to that effort. Again, while Andy's work has served many many people I do think that there's room for mercury healing beyond the pharmaceutical/supplement paradigm. I do hope that this group can tolerate everyone and their beliefs and experiments. I'm wondering if it isn't time for a new group, specific to Andy's protocol. Then those who want to focus on that work can join that list. I'd, of course, join both. Would someone like to start such a group? Sol Re: For the record ... > Thanks Sol... > I was ready to leave the group. After more than 1 year of lurking > and a lot of reading and eprimenting I really believed could offer > something here (even though I'm just an M. Sc. (Mech Eng) Imperial > College, London + MBA (LBS)) . It seems that some people here do not > welcome new input and information and defend their 'castle' (that is > how they behave about such serious matters) by implying that anybody > except them is either stupid or unqualified. > I will make every effort not to cause arguments in the future and I > will try to post my contributions with the least possible bias (not > that I believe I was really biased - I was using Andy's protocol and > will probably use it again - but I also did other things that helped > me greatly...). > Thanks again, > () > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Hi Dana, You're not the only one who is confused! Here's a little bit of the history of this list as I see it. Your reality might differ. Once upon a time, a year and a half or so ago, I became very interested in mercury chelation because I believed (and still do) that it holds answers to some of my health issues. I discovered the autism-mercury list, followed it for a while, and discovered that it was very child oriented, which is fine. So, I decided to start a group with a focus on adult metal chelation. I got support and encouragement from Andy to create this list and, fortunately, have gotten him to provide lots of information on this list. Moria also joined this list, and has added quite a bit of her knowledge, experience, and skill in producing documents to this list. Moria, Andy and myself are the moderators for this group. I can understand why you thought she was " the " moderator. For nearly a year after forming this list I was VERY inactive and Moria largely held this group together and I'm grateful for that. With Moria and Andy as strong presences on this list it's also no surprise that you thought this was a list for those following Andy's protocol. It was never my intent but it does seem to have turned out that way. That's why I go out of my way to defend and others who want to post alternatives - because I don't want this list to continue to be so Andy-protocol-centric. That's why I think it would be really good for there to be two lists. Then those who want to dive deep into Andy's protocol and not be distracted with other approaches can drop this list and join that one. And, I'm hoping that with two lists we can all end the fighting. Sol Re: Re: For the record ... > When I joined this group, I thought it was about adult-metal-chelation. > Then....I thought Moria was the moderator, and this group was for people who > were following Andy's protocol. > > I am confused. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 i don't understand why there has to be two groups people just need to be a little bit more respectful, and then everyone can benefit not even alot more respectful, just a little i have shied away from posting things here due to intolerant attitudes. granted i may turn out to be totally wrong, but that's not the point. i am extremely grateful to both andy and moria so far. i had a conversation with michael a yesterday and he seems to be extremely intelligent and intuitive, and i will try some of his ideas based on this. part of the issue here is that mercury seems to be a problem that leads into just about every area of health. no one can know absolutely everything about the human body. i think the posts on bowel cleansing were extremely relevant. i think posts about every other type of cleansing (if it relates to metals) is also relevant. creating another list will be making the same mistake that allopathic medicine makes by compartmentalizing illness, rather thank relating common causes. i have had similar experiences to michael with bowel cleansing with what we both think is mercury being released on an ongoing basis as we cleanse deep tissue. i had to figure things out for myself. had there been a group like this to discuss it in, it would have made my life alot easier. i agree with sol. the issue is entirely one of ego. everyone needs to be entitled to their own voice, no matter if they have a phd, if they are a raving lunatic, if they wear pink polkadot undies, so long as it respectful. i often find myself bouncing around different health groups due to lack of tolerance to new ideas. if i mention liver cleansing some people's panties go atwist. if i mention mercury somewhere else, an ego goes a poppin'. oxyplus is the only other place where people are tolerant, but no one has a clue about mercury there.(except moria) the only other group i have come into contact with that has good info (and results) with regard to mercury is the primaldiet list. new people and new ideas are good. eventually it will all come out in the wash and the cream will float to the top... and other cliches. To: adult-metal-chelation > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 7:33 PM Subject: Re: Re: For the record ... > When I joined this group, I thought it was about adult-metal-chelation. > Then....I thought Moria was the moderator, and this group was for people who > were following Andy's protocol. > > I am confused. > > I am using Andy's DMSA/ALA protocol, AND I am doing other things that REALLY > help (and which I learned about from ). > > I think there should be two groups, and I would like to belong to both! > > Thanks, > Dana > > > on 01/09/2003 6:45 PM, Sol Lederman at s_lederman@... wrote: > > > , > > I have an interest in this group being more holistically oriented and I hope > you do stay and contribute to that effort. Again, while Andy's work has > served many many people I do think that there's room for mercury healing > beyond the pharmaceutical/supplement paradigm. I do hope that this group can > tolerate everyone and their beliefs and experiments. > > I'm wondering if it isn't time for a new group, specific to Andy's protocol. > Then those who want to focus on that work can join that list. I'd, of > course, join both. Would someone like to start such a group? > > Sol > Re: For the record ... > > > > Thanks Sol... > > I was ready to leave the group. After more than 1 year of lurking > > and a lot of reading and eprimenting I really believed could offer > > something here (even though I'm just an M. Sc. (Mech Eng) Imperial > > College, London + MBA (LBS)) . It seems that some people here do not > > welcome new input and information and defend their 'castle' (that is > > how they behave about such serious matters) by implying that anybody > > except them is either stupid or unqualified. > > I will make every effort not to cause arguments in the future and I > > will try to post my contributions with the least possible bias (not > > that I believe I was really biased - I was using Andy's protocol and > > will probably use it again - but I also did other things that helped > > me greatly...). > > Thanks again, > > () > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 This is a wonderful idea Sol. Thanks for your sane words. Many of us would probably subscribe to both lists since we are interested in all methods, but two lists might decrease some of the defensiveness that, IMHO, seems to come out whenever a " non-Andy-approved " therapy is brought up here. I also want to thank for his very interesting contributions, especially since he has to struggle with a foreign language (English) to communicate them...pretty dedicated if you ask me. > > , > > I have an interest in this group being more holistically oriented and I hope > you do stay and contribute to that effort. Again, while Andy's work has > served many many people I do think that there's room for mercury healing > beyond the pharmaceutical/supplement paradigm. I do hope that this group can > tolerate everyone and their beliefs and experiments. > > I'm wondering if it isn't time for a new group, specific to Andy's protocol. > Then those who want to focus on that work can join that list. I'd, of > course, join both. Would someone like to start such a group? > > Sol > Re: For the record ... > > > > Thanks Sol... > > I was ready to leave the group. After more than 1 year of lurking > > and a lot of reading and eprimenting I really believed could offer > > something here (even though I'm just an M. Sc. (Mech Eng) Imperial > > College, London + MBA (LBS)) . It seems that some people here do not > > welcome new input and information and defend their 'castle' (that is > > how they behave about such serious matters) by implying that anybody > > except them is either stupid or unqualified. > > I will make every effort not to cause arguments in the future and I > > will try to post my contributions with the least possible bias (not > > that I believe I was really biased - I was using Andy's protocol and > > will probably use it again - but I also did other things that helped > > me greatly...). > > Thanks again, > > () > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 This is a wonderful idea Sol. Thanks for your sane words. Many of us would probably subscribe to both lists since we are interested in all methods, but two lists might decrease some of the defensiveness that, IMHO, seems to come out whenever a " non-Andy-approved " therapy is brought up here. I also want to thank for his very interesting contributions, especially since he has to struggle with a foreign language (English) to communicate them...pretty dedicated if you ask me. > > , > > I have an interest in this group being more holistically oriented and I hope > you do stay and contribute to that effort. Again, while Andy's work has > served many many people I do think that there's room for mercury healing > beyond the pharmaceutical/supplement paradigm. I do hope that this group can > tolerate everyone and their beliefs and experiments. > > I'm wondering if it isn't time for a new group, specific to Andy's protocol. > Then those who want to focus on that work can join that list. I'd, of > course, join both. Would someone like to start such a group? > > Sol > Re: For the record ... > > > > Thanks Sol... > > I was ready to leave the group. After more than 1 year of lurking > > and a lot of reading and eprimenting I really believed could offer > > something here (even though I'm just an M. Sc. (Mech Eng) Imperial > > College, London + MBA (LBS)) . It seems that some people here do not > > welcome new input and information and defend their 'castle' (that is > > how they behave about such serious matters) by implying that anybody > > except them is either stupid or unqualified. > > I will make every effort not to cause arguments in the future and I > > will try to post my contributions with the least possible bias (not > > that I believe I was really biased - I was using Andy's protocol and > > will probably use it again - but I also did other things that helped > > me greatly...). > > Thanks again, > > () > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 This is a wonderful idea Sol. Thanks for your sane words. Many of us would probably subscribe to both lists since we are interested in all methods, but two lists might decrease some of the defensiveness that, IMHO, seems to come out whenever a " non-Andy-approved " therapy is brought up here. I also want to thank for his very interesting contributions, especially since he has to struggle with a foreign language (English) to communicate them...pretty dedicated if you ask me. > > , > > I have an interest in this group being more holistically oriented and I hope > you do stay and contribute to that effort. Again, while Andy's work has > served many many people I do think that there's room for mercury healing > beyond the pharmaceutical/supplement paradigm. I do hope that this group can > tolerate everyone and their beliefs and experiments. > > I'm wondering if it isn't time for a new group, specific to Andy's protocol. > Then those who want to focus on that work can join that list. I'd, of > course, join both. Would someone like to start such a group? > > Sol > Re: For the record ... > > > > Thanks Sol... > > I was ready to leave the group. After more than 1 year of lurking > > and a lot of reading and eprimenting I really believed could offer > > something here (even though I'm just an M. Sc. (Mech Eng) Imperial > > College, London + MBA (LBS)) . It seems that some people here do not > > welcome new input and information and defend their 'castle' (that is > > how they behave about such serious matters) by implying that anybody > > except them is either stupid or unqualified. > > I will make every effort not to cause arguments in the future and I > > will try to post my contributions with the least possible bias (not > > that I believe I was really biased - I was using Andy's protocol and > > will probably use it again - but I also did other things that helped > > me greatly...). > > Thanks again, > > () > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 I think it would be easier for Andy as well....instead of sorting through all the emails to find the ones specifically addressed to him. I always wondered how he kept up with it all! I had joined the autism-mercury group too, but dropped it because it was too child-oriented. I couldn't keep up with all the emails! Alot of what this group has to offer also, is " support " while we are going through the " process " of detoxing. We keep it " active " by asking the same questions over and over, because it is more " social " than searching the archives....while we are going through these things. When I first stumbled upon " mercury poisoning " one of the first things I read was an excerpt from Andy's book that explained what it FELT like to have amalgam illness. It was beautifully written and really hit the nail on the head. I thought, yes....that's ME! And then I ended up here somehow....and wondered how he can possibly keep up with it all....all the weeding through the emails, on this list and on the autism-mercury list! He really should have his own group so he can concentrate on answering specific questions directed at him....especially with more and more people catching on to " amalgam illness " . He needs to stay passionate about what he is doing, and not get overwhelmed by it all.... Dana on 01/09/2003 7:42 PM, Sol Lederman at s_lederman@... wrote: Hi Dana, You're not the only one who is confused! Here's a little bit of the history of this list as I see it. Your reality might differ. Once upon a time, a year and a half or so ago, I became very interested in mercury chelation because I believed (and still do) that it holds answers to some of my health issues. I discovered the autism-mercury list, followed it for a while, and discovered that it was very child oriented, which is fine. So, I decided to start a group with a focus on adult metal chelation. I got support and encouragement from Andy to create this list and, fortunately, have gotten him to provide lots of information on this list. Moria also joined this list, and has added quite a bit of her knowledge, experience, and skill in producing documents to this list. Moria, Andy and myself are the moderators for this group. I can understand why you thought she was " the " moderator. For nearly a year after forming this list I was VERY inactive and Moria largely held this group together and I'm grateful for that. With Moria and Andy as strong presences on this list it's also no surprise that you thought this was a list for those following Andy's protocol. It was never my intent but it does seem to have turned out that way. That's why I go out of my way to defend and others who want to post alternatives - because I don't want this list to continue to be so Andy-protocol-centric. That's why I think it would be really good for there to be two lists. Then those who want to dive deep into Andy's protocol and not be distracted with other approaches can drop this list and join that one. And, I'm hoping that with two lists we can all end the fighting. Sol Re: Re: For the record ... > When I joined this group, I thought it was about adult-metal-chelation. > Then....I thought Moria was the moderator, and this group was for people who > were following Andy's protocol. > > I am confused. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Glad you are staying . I'm going to look into the Modiflan (sp?). Jeanie Re: For the record ... Thanks Sol... I was ready to leave the group. After more than 1 year of lurking and a lot of reading and eprimenting I really believed could offer something here (even though I'm just an M. Sc. (Mech Eng) Imperial College, London + MBA (LBS)) . It seems that some people here do not welcome new input and information and defend their 'castle' (that is how they behave about such serious matters) by implying that anybody except them is either stupid or unqualified. I will make every effort not to cause arguments in the future and I will try to post my contributions with the least possible bias (not that I believe I was really biased - I was using Andy's protocol and will probably use it again - but I also did other things that helped me greatly...). Thanks again, () > All, > > I feel like I'm being asked to take sides on the bickering between Moria and > . Although I prefer not to take sides I'm going to side with . > Moria, Andy and I have had several off-line philosophical conversations > about what is right to post and what is dangerous to post. My position is > that anyone has a right to post about anything they want that they believe > is relevant to adult metal chelation. As long as you don't slam one another > please share your beliefs, experiences and opinions. Period. > > On a philosophical note, I don't have great respect for people who argue > convincingly. There seems to be some ego on this group about being logically > correct. I learned a long time ago that I was not very good at logic or at > arguing (despite having a Stanford education, really good mathematical > skills and being really successful in the computer industry.) So, I don't > argue with people because I discovered that I'd lose arguments even though I > knew in my heart that I didn't agree with what the person said - I guess I'm > one of those people who are unarmed when it comes to battles of wit. > > So, given my personal bias combined with the fact that I'm the list owner > I'm not going to take sides when people bicker and I'm not going to use > " logic " as a criteria for what to censor on this group. We are all > responsible adults taking our lives into our own hands when we try different > things. Andy's protocol has risks, people have been hurt by it, but the list > doesn't spend a lot of energy underscoring that point. I follow Andy's > protocol, along with other methods, and I take responsibility for my own > life. I believe that there are quite a number of perspectives on healing > from mercury poisoning, and I would guess that all have risks. > > As much as I have tremendous respect for the work that Andy has done and for > how helpful his protocol has been to me personally I don't knock or discount > other methods. > > Sol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Personally I like it how it is. I don't want to see ruffled feathers and don't think there is any reason to be insulting to eachother. Common courtesy and all that. I didn't even know who the moderaters were - thought it was Andy's list or something. Still - can see where a list just for Andy's protocol would be good - but then again didn't Andy want help with all that? We kind of all help eachother. I don't see Andy or anyone as being " andy-protocol-centric. " Don't understand the issue with FIR saunas and trust there must be some reason Andy feels strongly about that - but on the other hand - was bringing up some really good issues with overall cleansing/colon cleansing, etc. I see it all more balanced that way. It should be. There is more to getting healthy than just chelating which Andy's book covers but he doesn't make out like there isn't more out there to be done to contribute to dealing with symptoms and maintaining our health than just what he covers. That is what this list is for to me. Andy did the bulk of the research, but its an ongoing process. I just think we need to be careful about how we communicate with eachother and watch the smart-___ remarks. (Andy : ) But then Andy was kind of being picked on too. We all bring different viewpoints and concede that the protocol's Andy offers are good ones. I will be forever grateful to you, Andy, for the book and information you have provided and also for answering my emails these past couple of years before I was even on the list. You are an incredible person and have helped a lot of people. Some day I believe you will get credit for that - but if not by mainstream society at least from grateful individuals like myself. I've told a lot of people about your book and continue to spread the word about mercury where people are open minded. I haven't even chelated and healed myself yet, but the information has still been priceless. I'm enjoying all the things people are bringing to this group including , though. Just my feelings and opinion humble as they may be : ) Jeanie Hi Dana, You're not the only one who is confused! Here's a little bit of the history of this list as I see it. Your reality might differ. Once upon a time, a year and a half or so ago, I became very interested in mercury chelation because I believed (and still do) that it holds answers to some of my health issues. I discovered the autism-mercury list, followed it for a while, and discovered that it was very child oriented, which is fine. So, I decided to start a group with a focus on adult metal chelation. I got support and encouragement from Andy to create this list and, fortunately, have gotten him to provide lots of information on this list. Moria also joined this list, and has added quite a bit of her knowledge, experience, and skill in producing documents to this list. Moria, Andy and myself are the moderators for this group. I can understand why you thought she was " the " moderator. For nearly a year after forming this list I was VERY inactive and Moria largely held this group together and I'm grateful for that. With Moria and Andy as strong presences on this list it's also no surprise that you thought this was a list for those following Andy's protocol. It was never my intent but it does seem to have turned out that way. That's why I go out of my way to defend and others who want to post alternatives - because I don't want this list to continue to be so Andy-protocol-centric. That's why I think it would be really good for there to be two lists. Then those who want to dive deep into Andy's protocol and not be distracted with other approaches can drop this list and join that one. And, I'm hoping that with two lists we can all end the fighting. Sol Re: Re: For the record ... > When I joined this group, I thought it was about adult-metal-chelation. > Then....I thought Moria was the moderator, and this group was for people who > were following Andy's protocol. > > I am confused. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Personally I like it how it is. I don't want to see ruffled feathers and don't think there is any reason to be insulting to eachother. Common courtesy and all that. I didn't even know who the moderaters were - thought it was Andy's list or something. Still - can see where a list just for Andy's protocol would be good - but then again didn't Andy want help with all that? We kind of all help eachother. I don't see Andy or anyone as being " andy-protocol-centric. " Don't understand the issue with FIR saunas and trust there must be some reason Andy feels strongly about that - but on the other hand - was bringing up some really good issues with overall cleansing/colon cleansing, etc. I see it all more balanced that way. It should be. There is more to getting healthy than just chelating which Andy's book covers but he doesn't make out like there isn't more out there to be done to contribute to dealing with symptoms and maintaining our health than just what he covers. That is what this list is for to me. Andy did the bulk of the research, but its an ongoing process. I just think we need to be careful about how we communicate with eachother and watch the smart-___ remarks. (Andy : ) But then Andy was kind of being picked on too. We all bring different viewpoints and concede that the protocol's Andy offers are good ones. I will be forever grateful to you, Andy, for the book and information you have provided and also for answering my emails these past couple of years before I was even on the list. You are an incredible person and have helped a lot of people. Some day I believe you will get credit for that - but if not by mainstream society at least from grateful individuals like myself. I've told a lot of people about your book and continue to spread the word about mercury where people are open minded. I haven't even chelated and healed myself yet, but the information has still been priceless. I'm enjoying all the things people are bringing to this group including , though. Just my feelings and opinion humble as they may be : ) Jeanie Hi Dana, You're not the only one who is confused! Here's a little bit of the history of this list as I see it. Your reality might differ. Once upon a time, a year and a half or so ago, I became very interested in mercury chelation because I believed (and still do) that it holds answers to some of my health issues. I discovered the autism-mercury list, followed it for a while, and discovered that it was very child oriented, which is fine. So, I decided to start a group with a focus on adult metal chelation. I got support and encouragement from Andy to create this list and, fortunately, have gotten him to provide lots of information on this list. Moria also joined this list, and has added quite a bit of her knowledge, experience, and skill in producing documents to this list. Moria, Andy and myself are the moderators for this group. I can understand why you thought she was " the " moderator. For nearly a year after forming this list I was VERY inactive and Moria largely held this group together and I'm grateful for that. With Moria and Andy as strong presences on this list it's also no surprise that you thought this was a list for those following Andy's protocol. It was never my intent but it does seem to have turned out that way. That's why I go out of my way to defend and others who want to post alternatives - because I don't want this list to continue to be so Andy-protocol-centric. That's why I think it would be really good for there to be two lists. Then those who want to dive deep into Andy's protocol and not be distracted with other approaches can drop this list and join that one. And, I'm hoping that with two lists we can all end the fighting. Sol Re: Re: For the record ... > When I joined this group, I thought it was about adult-metal-chelation. > Then....I thought Moria was the moderator, and this group was for people who > were following Andy's protocol. > > I am confused. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Personally I like it how it is. I don't want to see ruffled feathers and don't think there is any reason to be insulting to eachother. Common courtesy and all that. I didn't even know who the moderaters were - thought it was Andy's list or something. Still - can see where a list just for Andy's protocol would be good - but then again didn't Andy want help with all that? We kind of all help eachother. I don't see Andy or anyone as being " andy-protocol-centric. " Don't understand the issue with FIR saunas and trust there must be some reason Andy feels strongly about that - but on the other hand - was bringing up some really good issues with overall cleansing/colon cleansing, etc. I see it all more balanced that way. It should be. There is more to getting healthy than just chelating which Andy's book covers but he doesn't make out like there isn't more out there to be done to contribute to dealing with symptoms and maintaining our health than just what he covers. That is what this list is for to me. Andy did the bulk of the research, but its an ongoing process. I just think we need to be careful about how we communicate with eachother and watch the smart-___ remarks. (Andy : ) But then Andy was kind of being picked on too. We all bring different viewpoints and concede that the protocol's Andy offers are good ones. I will be forever grateful to you, Andy, for the book and information you have provided and also for answering my emails these past couple of years before I was even on the list. You are an incredible person and have helped a lot of people. Some day I believe you will get credit for that - but if not by mainstream society at least from grateful individuals like myself. I've told a lot of people about your book and continue to spread the word about mercury where people are open minded. I haven't even chelated and healed myself yet, but the information has still been priceless. I'm enjoying all the things people are bringing to this group including , though. Just my feelings and opinion humble as they may be : ) Jeanie Hi Dana, You're not the only one who is confused! Here's a little bit of the history of this list as I see it. Your reality might differ. Once upon a time, a year and a half or so ago, I became very interested in mercury chelation because I believed (and still do) that it holds answers to some of my health issues. I discovered the autism-mercury list, followed it for a while, and discovered that it was very child oriented, which is fine. So, I decided to start a group with a focus on adult metal chelation. I got support and encouragement from Andy to create this list and, fortunately, have gotten him to provide lots of information on this list. Moria also joined this list, and has added quite a bit of her knowledge, experience, and skill in producing documents to this list. Moria, Andy and myself are the moderators for this group. I can understand why you thought she was " the " moderator. For nearly a year after forming this list I was VERY inactive and Moria largely held this group together and I'm grateful for that. With Moria and Andy as strong presences on this list it's also no surprise that you thought this was a list for those following Andy's protocol. It was never my intent but it does seem to have turned out that way. That's why I go out of my way to defend and others who want to post alternatives - because I don't want this list to continue to be so Andy-protocol-centric. That's why I think it would be really good for there to be two lists. Then those who want to dive deep into Andy's protocol and not be distracted with other approaches can drop this list and join that one. And, I'm hoping that with two lists we can all end the fighting. Sol Re: Re: For the record ... > When I joined this group, I thought it was about adult-metal-chelation. > Then....I thought Moria was the moderator, and this group was for people who > were following Andy's protocol. > > I am confused. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 I agree wholeheartedly with Arthur! (you guys all make me laugh). Jeanie Re: Re: For the record ... > When I joined this group, I thought it was about adult-metal-chelation. > Then....I thought Moria was the moderator, and this group was for people who > were following Andy's protocol. > > I am confused. > > I am using Andy's DMSA/ALA protocol, AND I am doing other things that REALLY > help (and which I learned about from ). > > I think there should be two groups, and I would like to belong to both! > > Thanks, > Dana > > > on 01/09/2003 6:45 PM, Sol Lederman at s_lederman@... wrote: > > > , > > I have an interest in this group being more holistically oriented and I hope > you do stay and contribute to that effort. Again, while Andy's work has > served many many people I do think that there's room for mercury healing > beyond the pharmaceutical/supplement paradigm. I do hope that this group can > tolerate everyone and their beliefs and experiments. > > I'm wondering if it isn't time for a new group, specific to Andy's protocol. > Then those who want to focus on that work can join that list. I'd, of > course, join both. Would someone like to start such a group? > > Sol > Re: For the record ... > > > > Thanks Sol... > > I was ready to leave the group. After more than 1 year of lurking > > and a lot of reading and eprimenting I really believed could offer > > something here (even though I'm just an M. Sc. (Mech Eng) Imperial > > College, London + MBA (LBS)) . It seems that some people here do not > > welcome new input and information and defend their 'castle' (that is > > how they behave about such serious matters) by implying that anybody > > except them is either stupid or unqualified. > > I will make every effort not to cause arguments in the future and I > > will try to post my contributions with the least possible bias (not > > that I believe I was really biased - I was using Andy's protocol and > > will probably use it again - but I also did other things that helped > > me greatly...). > > Thanks again, > > () > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 Personally, I don't need any more lists to read. If this one had nothing on Andy's protocol, I'd drop it. I am interested in all of the information in one place. Carmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 I will be forever grateful to you, Andy, for > the book and information you have provided and also for answering my emails > these past couple of years before I was even on the list. You are an > incredible person and have helped a lot of people. Some day I believe you > will get credit for that - but if not by mainstream society at least from > grateful individuals like myself. I've told a lot of people about your book > and continue to spread the word about mercury where people are open minded. > I haven't even chelated and healed myself yet, but the information has still > been priceless. I'm enjoying all the things people are bringing to this > group including , though. Just my feelings and opinion humble as they > may be : ) Jeanie I absolutely agree with everything you have said here about Andy but also agree it is very good to get as much information and opinions on chelation as possible. Pam Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 That does make it easier! Celeste Re: For the record ... Personally, I don't need any more lists to read. If this one had nothing on Andy's protocol, I'd drop it. I am interested in all of the information in one place. Carmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 That does make it easier! Celeste Re: For the record ... Personally, I don't need any more lists to read. If this one had nothing on Andy's protocol, I'd drop it. I am interested in all of the information in one place. Carmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 That does make it easier! Celeste Re: For the record ... Personally, I don't need any more lists to read. If this one had nothing on Andy's protocol, I'd drop it. I am interested in all of the information in one place. Carmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 > I don't need any more lists to read. If this one had > nothing on Andy's protocol, I'd drop it. I am interested in all of > the information in one place. Carmen I agree and I think much more learning can be accomplished when divergent approaches are discussed. An essential dynamic is lost the more that discussions get narrowed. We are all free to do our own followup investigations of modalities presented and make our own choices. Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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