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I too follow the every 4 hour DMSA schedule suggested by Andy and

others.....but I had bad reactions to using the 100mg reccommended by Andy

initially.....I had a DMPS urine challenge test in the beginning which

showed 140 mg/l (whatever the units were, I don't remember.) which was a

diluted test....I got very sick from it....and therefore did not follow the

DMPS protocol suggested by my doctor, but opted for Andy's protocol.....I

got very sick from using the 100mg doses.....so on suggestion from Ray

S.....started with 25mg every four hours....it took me about 4-5 rounds to

work up to the 100mg doseage......and I think that was because of how high

an amount of mercury poisoning I have.....I also was reading the

Autism-mercury list for months and read stories of many kids starting on

the 100mg dose every 4 hours that were showing a lot of stress reactions by

day 3 and 4.....so I really think that Andy's recommended ititial 100mg

dose, needs to be backed down......the point in all of this is to chelate

safely.....there is a guy on the Amalgam list who has been successful just

using DMPS, his initial mercury test showed only a level of 40; my doctor

has a lot of his patients improve only using the DMPS.....but Im glad I was

cautious.

for the first several months I used a lot of ozone saunas, for the last

several months I haven't and have been upset with myself for not.....and

now just the other day, Ray Sarella posts a statement about the dangers of

saunas driving mercury into the brain and how many people he's known over

the years who have gotten worse from using them.....and again, my doctor

has a patient who was tested before and after 30 days of saunas and her

mercury level dropped significantly.....

my point is that none of it is totally safe, and we have to learn to pace

ourselves and really listen to our bodies.....which is hard, because

mostly I get the answer back that something is wrong....and I don't know

what to do.....I know that I am better than a year ago.....

using ozone in my ears helped mental clarity significantly.....I want to do

that again.....and I keep chipping away at DMSA rounds.....ALA scares me

and I haven't tried it yet.

I'd like to hear what people are using to replenish minerals. I've got some

individual liquid ones from Body Bio recommendation that you're supposed to

tell the dose by their taste in water.....sounds fishy to me, I haven't

tried them.

Haven't done the Hemex test yet.....has anyone else? I suspect I have some

sorts of underlying other problems either independent of or caused by or

increased by the mercury poisoning.

Another question I have is mercury stored in fat cells as well as other

tissues?

Jaen Treesinger

Bengals from the RainForest

........amazingly smart, incredibly fast and just gorgeous!

Check out new pictures on our website at: http://www.bengal-cat.com

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In a message dated 1/12/02 12:12:49 PM Central Standard Time,

rainforest@... writes:

> Haven't done the Hemex test yet.....has anyone else? I suspect I have some

> sorts of underlying other problems either independent of or caused by or

> increased by the mercury poisoning

>

> I have done Hemex.com testing, which is called an ISAC panel. I recommend

> these tests, which are insurance covered for some folks. I had a very low

> sed rate, never bled after a stick and had trouble giving blood or getting

> IV therapy. I have been on heparin and then Lovenox for over a year. I do

> believe there is a connection between fibrinogen deposition (probably

> autoimmune) and hypercoagulation, as well as a conditon called DIC, which

> seem to occur in people who have had many toxic exposures. I have a friend

> with heavy toxic radioactive substances, who has DIC. I had both fibrinogen

> and hypercoag, but not DIC. The protocol is at the website, or it was.

> Bromelain is recommended for blood thinning and pain. I am using bromelain

> currently and it does have some pain relieving properties, IMO.SJ

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In a message dated 1/12/02 12:12:49 PM Central Standard Time,

rainforest@... writes:

> Haven't done the Hemex test yet.....has anyone else? I suspect I have some

> sorts of underlying other problems either independent of or caused by or

> increased by the mercury poisoning

>

> I have done Hemex.com testing, which is called an ISAC panel. I recommend

> these tests, which are insurance covered for some folks. I had a very low

> sed rate, never bled after a stick and had trouble giving blood or getting

> IV therapy. I have been on heparin and then Lovenox for over a year. I do

> believe there is a connection between fibrinogen deposition (probably

> autoimmune) and hypercoagulation, as well as a conditon called DIC, which

> seem to occur in people who have had many toxic exposures. I have a friend

> with heavy toxic radioactive substances, who has DIC. I had both fibrinogen

> and hypercoag, but not DIC. The protocol is at the website, or it was.

> Bromelain is recommended for blood thinning and pain. I am using bromelain

> currently and it does have some pain relieving properties, IMO.SJ

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In a message dated 1/12/02 12:12:49 PM Central Standard Time,

rainforest@... writes:

> Haven't done the Hemex test yet.....has anyone else? I suspect I have some

> sorts of underlying other problems either independent of or caused by or

> increased by the mercury poisoning

>

> I have done Hemex.com testing, which is called an ISAC panel. I recommend

> these tests, which are insurance covered for some folks. I had a very low

> sed rate, never bled after a stick and had trouble giving blood or getting

> IV therapy. I have been on heparin and then Lovenox for over a year. I do

> believe there is a connection between fibrinogen deposition (probably

> autoimmune) and hypercoagulation, as well as a conditon called DIC, which

> seem to occur in people who have had many toxic exposures. I have a friend

> with heavy toxic radioactive substances, who has DIC. I had both fibrinogen

> and hypercoag, but not DIC. The protocol is at the website, or it was.

> Bromelain is recommended for blood thinning and pain. I am using bromelain

> currently and it does have some pain relieving properties, IMO.SJ

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I just take vitamins and minerals that I buy from Vitamin Shoppe or Twin Labs.

I take them all of the time, whether chelating or not.

Carmen

>

> I'd like to hear what people are using to replenish minerals. I've got some

> individual liquid ones from Body Bio recommendation that you're supposed to

> tell the dose by their taste in water.....sounds fishy to me, I haven't

> tried them.

>

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I just take vitamins and minerals that I buy from Vitamin Shoppe or Twin Labs.

I take them all of the time, whether chelating or not.

Carmen

>

> I'd like to hear what people are using to replenish minerals. I've got some

> individual liquid ones from Body Bio recommendation that you're supposed to

> tell the dose by their taste in water.....sounds fishy to me, I haven't

> tried them.

>

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I just take vitamins and minerals that I buy from Vitamin Shoppe or Twin Labs.

I take them all of the time, whether chelating or not.

Carmen

>

> I'd like to hear what people are using to replenish minerals. I've got some

> individual liquid ones from Body Bio recommendation that you're supposed to

> tell the dose by their taste in water.....sounds fishy to me, I haven't

> tried them.

>

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I've been instructed that when chelating to remove plaque Ca+ from the blood

flow, you should not take minerals that day so as to not interfere with the

chelation efforts. But there are different chelating protocols, be sure to get

the most out of the procedure.

C. W.

Re: dosing schedule

I just take vitamins and minerals that I buy from Vitamin Shoppe or Twin Labs.

I take them all of the time, whether chelating or not.

Carmen

>

> I'd like to hear what people are using to replenish minerals. I've got some

> individual liquid ones from Body Bio recommendation that you're supposed to

> tell the dose by their taste in water.....sounds fishy to me, I haven't

> tried them.

>

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I've been instructed that when chelating to remove plaque Ca+ from the blood

flow, you should not take minerals that day so as to not interfere with the

chelation efforts. But there are different chelating protocols, be sure to get

the most out of the procedure.

C. W.

Re: dosing schedule

I just take vitamins and minerals that I buy from Vitamin Shoppe or Twin Labs.

I take them all of the time, whether chelating or not.

Carmen

>

> I'd like to hear what people are using to replenish minerals. I've got some

> individual liquid ones from Body Bio recommendation that you're supposed to

> tell the dose by their taste in water.....sounds fishy to me, I haven't

> tried them.

>

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I've been instructed that when chelating to remove plaque Ca+ from the blood

flow, you should not take minerals that day so as to not interfere with the

chelation efforts. But there are different chelating protocols, be sure to get

the most out of the procedure.

C. W.

Re: dosing schedule

I just take vitamins and minerals that I buy from Vitamin Shoppe or Twin Labs.

I take them all of the time, whether chelating or not.

Carmen

>

> I'd like to hear what people are using to replenish minerals. I've got some

> individual liquid ones from Body Bio recommendation that you're supposed to

> tell the dose by their taste in water.....sounds fishy to me, I haven't

> tried them.

>

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> I too follow the every 4 hour DMSA schedule suggested by Andy and

> others.....but I had bad reactions to using the 100mg reccommended

by Andy

> initially.....

Where did you see Andy recommend this dose?? His standard advise

is 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound of body weight per dose. So 100 mg

would be the high end FOR A 200 POUND PERSON. That's the HIGH

end of the range. A 200 pound person would take 25 to 100 mg

per dose. A 100 pound person would take 12.5 to 50 mg per dose.

see:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/Andy_dose_sched

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/ANDY_INDEX

> I also was reading the

> Autism-mercury list for months and read stories of many kids

starting on

> the 100mg dose every 4 hours that were showing a lot of stress

reactions by

> day 3 and 4.....

A number of parents on the autism-mercury list use the dose

amount and/or dose schedule recommended by " Defeat Autism

Now " (this is an organization, which has a chelation protocol

which they promote)-- their guidelines for amount of DMSA to use

are MUCH higher than Andy's. Maybe this was some of what you read

about.

> my

doctor

> has a patient who was tested before and after 30 days of saunas and

her

> mercury level dropped significantly.....

I am really sorry, but this sort of statement makes no sense

to me. There is no real test for the amount of mercury

in someone's body. " Her mercury level dropped significantly "

indicates to me that the speaker is unaware of this.

How was this tested? Why do you believe this?

best wishes,

Moria

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> I too follow the every 4 hour DMSA schedule suggested by Andy and

> others.....but I had bad reactions to using the 100mg reccommended

by Andy

> initially.....

Where did you see Andy recommend this dose?? His standard advise

is 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound of body weight per dose. So 100 mg

would be the high end FOR A 200 POUND PERSON. That's the HIGH

end of the range. A 200 pound person would take 25 to 100 mg

per dose. A 100 pound person would take 12.5 to 50 mg per dose.

see:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/Andy_dose_sched

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/ANDY_INDEX

> I also was reading the

> Autism-mercury list for months and read stories of many kids

starting on

> the 100mg dose every 4 hours that were showing a lot of stress

reactions by

> day 3 and 4.....

A number of parents on the autism-mercury list use the dose

amount and/or dose schedule recommended by " Defeat Autism

Now " (this is an organization, which has a chelation protocol

which they promote)-- their guidelines for amount of DMSA to use

are MUCH higher than Andy's. Maybe this was some of what you read

about.

> my

doctor

> has a patient who was tested before and after 30 days of saunas and

her

> mercury level dropped significantly.....

I am really sorry, but this sort of statement makes no sense

to me. There is no real test for the amount of mercury

in someone's body. " Her mercury level dropped significantly "

indicates to me that the speaker is unaware of this.

How was this tested? Why do you believe this?

best wishes,

Moria

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> I too follow the every 4 hour DMSA schedule suggested by Andy and

> others.....but I had bad reactions to using the 100mg reccommended

by Andy

> initially.....

Where did you see Andy recommend this dose?? His standard advise

is 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound of body weight per dose. So 100 mg

would be the high end FOR A 200 POUND PERSON. That's the HIGH

end of the range. A 200 pound person would take 25 to 100 mg

per dose. A 100 pound person would take 12.5 to 50 mg per dose.

see:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/Andy_dose_sched

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/ANDY_INDEX

> I also was reading the

> Autism-mercury list for months and read stories of many kids

starting on

> the 100mg dose every 4 hours that were showing a lot of stress

reactions by

> day 3 and 4.....

A number of parents on the autism-mercury list use the dose

amount and/or dose schedule recommended by " Defeat Autism

Now " (this is an organization, which has a chelation protocol

which they promote)-- their guidelines for amount of DMSA to use

are MUCH higher than Andy's. Maybe this was some of what you read

about.

> my

doctor

> has a patient who was tested before and after 30 days of saunas and

her

> mercury level dropped significantly.....

I am really sorry, but this sort of statement makes no sense

to me. There is no real test for the amount of mercury

in someone's body. " Her mercury level dropped significantly "

indicates to me that the speaker is unaware of this.

How was this tested? Why do you believe this?

best wishes,

Moria

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C.W.

This sounds like EDTA chelation to remove plaque in the blood stream. If I do

not take all of my minerals during chelation, I get severe muscle spasms. That

tells me that some of the minerals might be removed during that time, especially

magnesium. The fact that I

am getting better tells me that enough chelator is free to remove the mercury.

I'm on 100mg DMSA/50mg ALA every 3 hours for 3 days per cycle. My conclusion

has been that I feel better to take the minerals during chelation - both 'on'

and 'off' days.

Carmen

" C. W. " wrote:

> I've been instructed that when chelating to remove plaque Ca+ from the blood

flow, you should not take minerals that day so as to not interfere with the

chelation efforts. But there are different chelating protocols, be sure to get

the most out of the procedure.

>

> C. W.

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Message: 7

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 03:42:54 -0000

Subject: Re: dosing schedule

> I too follow the every 4 hour DMSA schedule suggested by Andy and

> others.....but I had bad reactions to using the 100mg reccommended

by Andy

> initially.....

on the amalgam list and in the book.....pg 89-90 and at the time I began I

weighed enough by the formula given below to be taking up to 150mg every

3-4 hrs.....while even 25mg every 3-4 hours gave me a bad

reaction........my point being is that everyone's reaction is individual

and it is best to start slowly. Initially I couldn't even figure out how to

organize my supplements, my brain fog was so bad.

Where did you see Andy recommend this dose?? His standard advise

is 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound of body weight per dose. So 100 mg

would be the high end FOR A 200 POUND PERSON. That's the HIGH

end of the range. A 200 pound person would take 25 to 100 mg

per dose. A 100 pound person would take 12.5 to 50 mg per dose.

see:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/Andy_dose_sched

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/ANDY_INDEX

> I also was reading the

> Autism-mercury list for months and read stories of many kids

starting on

> the 100mg dose every 4 hours that were showing a lot of stress

reactions by

> day 3 and 4.....

A number of parents on the autism-mercury list use the dose

amount and/or dose schedule recommended by " Defeat Autism

Now " (this is an organization, which has a chelation protocol

which they promote)-- their guidelines for amount of DMSA to use

are MUCH higher than Andy's. Maybe this was some of what you read

about.

no I specifically saw interaction between Andy and parents and response by

him recommending continuing that 100mg dose while I was reading the autism

list.........I so distinctly remember it because at the same time there

were arguments happening about the 100mg dose or not between Andy and Ray

on the Amalgam list, so it made a big impression on me.

> my

doctor

> has a patient who was tested before and after 30 days of saunas and

her

> mercury level dropped significantly.....

I am really sorry, but this sort of statement makes no sense

to me. There is no real test for the amount of mercury

in someone's body. " Her mercury level dropped significantly "

indicates to me that the speaker is unaware of this.

How was this tested? Why do you believe this?

Im not unaware of the problems of mercury testing.

my shorthand statement above really meant to say that " my doctor has a

patient who did a DMPS urine challenge test before and after 30 days of

saunas and the mercury level in the test results dropped significantly

between the two tests.

best wishes,

Moria

Jaen Treesinger

Bengals from the RainForest

........amazingly smart, incredibly fast and just gorgeous!

Check out new pictures on our website at: http://www.bengal-cat.com

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In a message dated 1/13/02 10:56:39 AM Central Standard Time,

cln3181@... writes:

<< I'm on 100mg DMSA/50mg ALA every 3 hours for 3 days per cycle. >>

Carmen, I am curious. Did you start with these dosages or gradually increase

from lower amounts of DMSA? Thanks in advance.

Tracey

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In a message dated 1/13/02 10:56:39 AM Central Standard Time,

cln3181@... writes:

<< I'm on 100mg DMSA/50mg ALA every 3 hours for 3 days per cycle. >>

Carmen, I am curious. Did you start with these dosages or gradually increase

from lower amounts of DMSA? Thanks in advance.

Tracey

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In a message dated 1/13/02 10:56:39 AM Central Standard Time,

cln3181@... writes:

<< I'm on 100mg DMSA/50mg ALA every 3 hours for 3 days per cycle. >>

Carmen, I am curious. Did you start with these dosages or gradually increase

from lower amounts of DMSA? Thanks in advance.

Tracey

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--- In adult-metal-chelation@y..., Jaen Treesinger

> on the amalgam list and in the book.....pg 89-90 and at the time I

began I

> weighed enough by the formula given below to be taking up to 150mg

every

> 3-4 hrs.....while even 25mg every 3-4 hours gave me a bad

> reaction........my point being is that everyone's reaction is

individual

> and it is best to start slowly. Initially I couldn't even figure out

how to

> organize my supplements, my brain fog was so bad.

gee-- I haven't read the dose stuff in the book for a long time.

I did go read 89-90, and, actually, um, I'm not sure if he is

saying to USE this higher dose--- it sounds like more " IF things

are really going great, then this higher dose is okay " . Also,

everywhere I see doses I see a RANGE, although, granted, it does

not match the 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound range.

And, I do agree that starting with less makes sense.

> no I specifically saw interaction between Andy and parents and

response by

> him recommending continuing that 100mg dose while I was reading the

autism

> list.........I so distinctly remember it because at the same time

there

> were arguments happening about the 100mg dose or not between Andy

and Ray

> on the Amalgam list, so it made a big impression on me.

I wasn't there, so can't really say anything much---- but it

SEEMS odd. Again, I've heard Andy talk about dose

RANGES sooooo much.... and also upping or reducing dose.....

It is hard for me to really imagine him say a SET amount, not

based on weight--- esp on a list about KIDS! Many of the

parents currently on autism-mercury seem to use really tiny

amounts--- issues about how to split up capsules abound.

> I am really sorry, but this sort of statement makes no sense

> to me. There is no real test for the amount of mercury

> in someone's body. " Her mercury level dropped significantly "

> indicates to me that the speaker is unaware of this.

> How was this tested? Why do you believe this?

>

>

> Im not unaware of the problems of mercury testing.

> my shorthand statement above really meant to say that " my doctor has

a

> patient who did a DMPS urine challenge test before and after 30 days

of

> saunas and the mercury level in the test results dropped

significantly

> between the two tests.

thanks for the expanded text--- should be helpful for anyone

who is trying to draw conclusions about saunas and wants to

use this as data.

best wishes,

Moria

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--- In adult-metal-chelation@y..., Jaen Treesinger

> on the amalgam list and in the book.....pg 89-90 and at the time I

began I

> weighed enough by the formula given below to be taking up to 150mg

every

> 3-4 hrs.....while even 25mg every 3-4 hours gave me a bad

> reaction........my point being is that everyone's reaction is

individual

> and it is best to start slowly. Initially I couldn't even figure out

how to

> organize my supplements, my brain fog was so bad.

gee-- I haven't read the dose stuff in the book for a long time.

I did go read 89-90, and, actually, um, I'm not sure if he is

saying to USE this higher dose--- it sounds like more " IF things

are really going great, then this higher dose is okay " . Also,

everywhere I see doses I see a RANGE, although, granted, it does

not match the 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound range.

And, I do agree that starting with less makes sense.

> no I specifically saw interaction between Andy and parents and

response by

> him recommending continuing that 100mg dose while I was reading the

autism

> list.........I so distinctly remember it because at the same time

there

> were arguments happening about the 100mg dose or not between Andy

and Ray

> on the Amalgam list, so it made a big impression on me.

I wasn't there, so can't really say anything much---- but it

SEEMS odd. Again, I've heard Andy talk about dose

RANGES sooooo much.... and also upping or reducing dose.....

It is hard for me to really imagine him say a SET amount, not

based on weight--- esp on a list about KIDS! Many of the

parents currently on autism-mercury seem to use really tiny

amounts--- issues about how to split up capsules abound.

> I am really sorry, but this sort of statement makes no sense

> to me. There is no real test for the amount of mercury

> in someone's body. " Her mercury level dropped significantly "

> indicates to me that the speaker is unaware of this.

> How was this tested? Why do you believe this?

>

>

> Im not unaware of the problems of mercury testing.

> my shorthand statement above really meant to say that " my doctor has

a

> patient who did a DMPS urine challenge test before and after 30 days

of

> saunas and the mercury level in the test results dropped

significantly

> between the two tests.

thanks for the expanded text--- should be helpful for anyone

who is trying to draw conclusions about saunas and wants to

use this as data.

best wishes,

Moria

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--- In adult-metal-chelation@y..., Jaen Treesinger

> on the amalgam list and in the book.....pg 89-90 and at the time I

began I

> weighed enough by the formula given below to be taking up to 150mg

every

> 3-4 hrs.....while even 25mg every 3-4 hours gave me a bad

> reaction........my point being is that everyone's reaction is

individual

> and it is best to start slowly. Initially I couldn't even figure out

how to

> organize my supplements, my brain fog was so bad.

gee-- I haven't read the dose stuff in the book for a long time.

I did go read 89-90, and, actually, um, I'm not sure if he is

saying to USE this higher dose--- it sounds like more " IF things

are really going great, then this higher dose is okay " . Also,

everywhere I see doses I see a RANGE, although, granted, it does

not match the 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound range.

And, I do agree that starting with less makes sense.

> no I specifically saw interaction between Andy and parents and

response by

> him recommending continuing that 100mg dose while I was reading the

autism

> list.........I so distinctly remember it because at the same time

there

> were arguments happening about the 100mg dose or not between Andy

and Ray

> on the Amalgam list, so it made a big impression on me.

I wasn't there, so can't really say anything much---- but it

SEEMS odd. Again, I've heard Andy talk about dose

RANGES sooooo much.... and also upping or reducing dose.....

It is hard for me to really imagine him say a SET amount, not

based on weight--- esp on a list about KIDS! Many of the

parents currently on autism-mercury seem to use really tiny

amounts--- issues about how to split up capsules abound.

> I am really sorry, but this sort of statement makes no sense

> to me. There is no real test for the amount of mercury

> in someone's body. " Her mercury level dropped significantly "

> indicates to me that the speaker is unaware of this.

> How was this tested? Why do you believe this?

>

>

> Im not unaware of the problems of mercury testing.

> my shorthand statement above really meant to say that " my doctor has

a

> patient who did a DMPS urine challenge test before and after 30 days

of

> saunas and the mercury level in the test results dropped

significantly

> between the two tests.

thanks for the expanded text--- should be helpful for anyone

who is trying to draw conclusions about saunas and wants to

use this as data.

best wishes,

Moria

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> no I specifically saw interaction between Andy and parents and

response by

> him recommending continuing that 100mg dose while I was reading the

autism

> list.........

Please do provide the message numbers as I do not recall suggesting

this amount.

Andy

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> no I specifically saw interaction between Andy and parents and

response by

> him recommending continuing that 100mg dose while I was reading the

autism

> list.........

Please do provide the message numbers as I do not recall suggesting

this amount.

Andy

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> no I specifically saw interaction between Andy and parents and

response by

> him recommending continuing that 100mg dose while I was reading the

autism

> list.........

Please do provide the message numbers as I do not recall suggesting

this amount.

Andy

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Tracey,

I started with 1/6 of a 100mg capsule of DMSA every 4 hours. It took me 3

months

to work the dosage up to the 100mg. That was when I started the ALA. I started

that at 1/14 of a 50mg capsule every 3 hours. I started and ended those cycles

with DMSA by itself, but took the DMSA with the ALA over the entire cycle. I

had

a really hard time working that dosage up to the 50mg one because of side

effects.

Carmen

TFreyre@... wrote:

> In a message dated 1/13/02 10:56:39 AM Central Standard Time,

> cln3181@... writes:

>

> << I'm on 100mg DMSA/50mg ALA every 3 hours for 3 days per cycle. >>

>

> Carmen, I am curious. Did you start with these dosages or gradually increase

> from lower amounts of DMSA? Thanks in advance.

>

> Tracey

>

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