Guest guest Posted February 21, 1999 Report Share Posted February 21, 1999 Terry: Apparently, nvCJD was thought to be different from " sporadic " CJD because " sporadic " CJD and familial CJD existed in Europe before nvCJD. Everything I have read seems to conclude that the illnesses are different because of obvious differences in the brain. It is my understanding that not all the nv victims were young; while not all of the " sporadic " victims were old. I don't think any scientist in their right mind would swear that the diseases aren't related in some way (obviously because the symptoms are similar), but there are apparently obvious differences. Enough to lead scientists to name it " new variant " (nv) CJD. They obviously saw something different. I wouldn't think that scientists would have any reason to hide the truth if it was something different from what they had found (especially European scientists). Scrapie didn't enter the United States until 1949. Dr. Mel Massey (DrJolyn37) has a textbook that explains how it happened. I believe it came from Canada to Minnesota or Michigan in the late 1940s. I know that books from my dad's employment with the Dept. of Agriculture from 1942-1950 doesn't even mention scrapie and my dad tested and studied sheep and cows (and also crops). Also, like your mom, my dad lost his vision first. He went completely blind before he lost the ability to communicate. He didn't wear makeup. ;0) I am more inclined to believe that either the victim's age (my dad and your mom weren't too far apart in age) has something to do with the length of illness or the amount of infectious material they ingested has something to do with incubation periods (less infectious material eaten, the longer the incubation period). Of course, I would think that someone who started showing symptoms of CJD at age 50 would certainly live longer than someone in their 70s who started showing symptoms. My dad lasted less than 6 weeks. Mel Massey's wife (age 56) lived nearly a year. I also believe very strongly that " sporadic " CJD is a fatal illness we get from eating TSE infected animals. I just watched a video prepared by the Wyoming Game and Fish Department on Chronic Wasting Disease in deer and elk. The brains of deer and elk with CWD look exactly like the brains of a " sporadic " CJD victim -- a bunch of holes. One of the state veterinarians in the tape confirms that white-tailed deer have tested positive for CWD -- I am pretty convinced that this is where Dad contracted CJD. He ate deer meat every year and hunted and field-dressed his kill. The video says that hunters should always wear gloves when field-dressing their kill. Dad hunted white- tailed deer exclusively in Texas, but his hunting buddies would frequently bring back deer meat from Colorado. We had better start screaming for CWD testing in Texas -- I think it will explain our high number of CJD cases. Beverly G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 1999 Report Share Posted February 21, 1999 Terry: Apparently, nvCJD was thought to be different from " sporadic " CJD because " sporadic " CJD and familial CJD existed in Europe before nvCJD. Everything I have read seems to conclude that the illnesses are different because of obvious differences in the brain. It is my understanding that not all the nv victims were young; while not all of the " sporadic " victims were old. I don't think any scientist in their right mind would swear that the diseases aren't related in some way (obviously because the symptoms are similar), but there are apparently obvious differences. Enough to lead scientists to name it " new variant " (nv) CJD. They obviously saw something different. I wouldn't think that scientists would have any reason to hide the truth if it was something different from what they had found (especially European scientists). Scrapie didn't enter the United States until 1949. Dr. Mel Massey (DrJolyn37) has a textbook that explains how it happened. I believe it came from Canada to Minnesota or Michigan in the late 1940s. I know that books from my dad's employment with the Dept. of Agriculture from 1942-1950 doesn't even mention scrapie and my dad tested and studied sheep and cows (and also crops). Also, like your mom, my dad lost his vision first. He went completely blind before he lost the ability to communicate. He didn't wear makeup. ;0) I am more inclined to believe that either the victim's age (my dad and your mom weren't too far apart in age) has something to do with the length of illness or the amount of infectious material they ingested has something to do with incubation periods (less infectious material eaten, the longer the incubation period). Of course, I would think that someone who started showing symptoms of CJD at age 50 would certainly live longer than someone in their 70s who started showing symptoms. My dad lasted less than 6 weeks. Mel Massey's wife (age 56) lived nearly a year. I also believe very strongly that " sporadic " CJD is a fatal illness we get from eating TSE infected animals. I just watched a video prepared by the Wyoming Game and Fish Department on Chronic Wasting Disease in deer and elk. The brains of deer and elk with CWD look exactly like the brains of a " sporadic " CJD victim -- a bunch of holes. One of the state veterinarians in the tape confirms that white-tailed deer have tested positive for CWD -- I am pretty convinced that this is where Dad contracted CJD. He ate deer meat every year and hunted and field-dressed his kill. The video says that hunters should always wear gloves when field-dressing their kill. Dad hunted white- tailed deer exclusively in Texas, but his hunting buddies would frequently bring back deer meat from Colorado. We had better start screaming for CWD testing in Texas -- I think it will explain our high number of CJD cases. Beverly G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 1999 Report Share Posted February 21, 1999 Terry: Apparently, nvCJD was thought to be different from " sporadic " CJD because " sporadic " CJD and familial CJD existed in Europe before nvCJD. Everything I have read seems to conclude that the illnesses are different because of obvious differences in the brain. It is my understanding that not all the nv victims were young; while not all of the " sporadic " victims were old. I don't think any scientist in their right mind would swear that the diseases aren't related in some way (obviously because the symptoms are similar), but there are apparently obvious differences. Enough to lead scientists to name it " new variant " (nv) CJD. They obviously saw something different. I wouldn't think that scientists would have any reason to hide the truth if it was something different from what they had found (especially European scientists). Scrapie didn't enter the United States until 1949. Dr. Mel Massey (DrJolyn37) has a textbook that explains how it happened. I believe it came from Canada to Minnesota or Michigan in the late 1940s. I know that books from my dad's employment with the Dept. of Agriculture from 1942-1950 doesn't even mention scrapie and my dad tested and studied sheep and cows (and also crops). Also, like your mom, my dad lost his vision first. He went completely blind before he lost the ability to communicate. He didn't wear makeup. ;0) I am more inclined to believe that either the victim's age (my dad and your mom weren't too far apart in age) has something to do with the length of illness or the amount of infectious material they ingested has something to do with incubation periods (less infectious material eaten, the longer the incubation period). Of course, I would think that someone who started showing symptoms of CJD at age 50 would certainly live longer than someone in their 70s who started showing symptoms. My dad lasted less than 6 weeks. Mel Massey's wife (age 56) lived nearly a year. I also believe very strongly that " sporadic " CJD is a fatal illness we get from eating TSE infected animals. I just watched a video prepared by the Wyoming Game and Fish Department on Chronic Wasting Disease in deer and elk. The brains of deer and elk with CWD look exactly like the brains of a " sporadic " CJD victim -- a bunch of holes. One of the state veterinarians in the tape confirms that white-tailed deer have tested positive for CWD -- I am pretty convinced that this is where Dad contracted CJD. He ate deer meat every year and hunted and field-dressed his kill. The video says that hunters should always wear gloves when field-dressing their kill. Dad hunted white- tailed deer exclusively in Texas, but his hunting buddies would frequently bring back deer meat from Colorado. We had better start screaming for CWD testing in Texas -- I think it will explain our high number of CJD cases. Beverly G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 1999 Report Share Posted February 21, 1999 Terry: You are just as likely to be right as I am since no one can tell us for sure. Hey -- why don't you turn that florist business into a lab and start your research to find out what this stuff really is? You will have my vote for the next Nobel prize!!! :0) Beverly G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 1999 Report Share Posted February 21, 1999 -- lets not forget that, ALL OF THIS IS NOTHING BUT THEORY.......... CJD AND nvCJD and ALL OF THE OTHER HUMAN TSE's, HAVE or HAVE NOT been proven to be related.........IT'S ALL THEORY!!! If you ask ANY of the Medical Society (ANY OF THEM THAT KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT TSE's) , to prove that nvCJD and CJD are two totally different diseases, THEY CAN'T! All they say, the plaques are more EXTREME, but the brain is identical in all other features.......the symtoms of these Victims are ALL similar, except the fact that most of the nvCJD, has happened in young Victims......... Could it not be, that these people were just, more severly INFECTED??????? and the reason, that they tend to live longer, is because of there age and health??????? Could it not be, that sporadic CJD is just nvCJD, at a less infective state??? OR different strain??? say a TSE from pigs, or cwd etc... Could it not be, that the reason Familia CJD having a longer life span, is because of less infectivity????? (infectivity breaking down through generations)????? If you look at KURU, the eating of the brains etc.,Cannibalism... It makes me wonder about the NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS INDUSTRY, and all the pills that CONTAIN A BOVINE BRAIN, EYE, AND PITUITARY EMULSION......My neighbors Mom died from CJD, she was taking a supplement which contained BOVINE BRAIN, EYE, veal bone, bovine liver powder, porcine stomach, bovine adrenal, bovine kidney, bone meal.......This nice lady taking these pills, died from CJD????? OR THE COSMETICS........My Mom died from hvCJD, this variant destoy's the part of the brain behind the eye's. Although my Moms complete brain was infected, it was worst directly befind the eyes, she went blind first.......SHE LOVED EYE MAKE-UP?????? OR SURGERY........ OR FOOD............... ETC. ETC................ Then you look at the cattle industry, the fact of 800,000,000 cattle raised since 1990 and only 5,700 brains being checked out of those 800,000,000 in 8 years, PLUS, the geographical locations of these 5,700 brains from which they were gathered across the U.S., WERE NOT UNIFORM........ There is 100,000 downers annually........ OUR FEEDING AND RENDERING PRACTICES MIRRORED THAT OF THE U.K. FOR YEARS.........SOME SAY IT WAS WORSE.... SCRAPIE RUNNING RAMPANT IN THE U.S. FOR YEARS........... AND THEY ARE GOING TO TELL US, THAT SPORADIC CJD, " JUST HAPPENS " !!!! " NOT " I DON'T accept their BSe story about nvCJD being totally different from CJD. I DON'T accept their lies that BSE is not in this Country. I just don't see it.......................NOT UNTIL THEY PROVE IT!!! THAT HAS " NOT " BEEN DONE YET!!!!! Terry/MADSON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 1999 Report Share Posted February 21, 1999 Good point Terry!!!!!!.......I agree......especially re: scrappie. Who's to say what my mom ate. This HORRIBLE disease DIDN'T " just happen " ..... I don't buy the " sporatic CJD " theory either....... Suzanne Re: CJD * nvCJD * KURU -- lets not forget that, ALL OF THIS IS NOTHING BUT THEORY.......... CJD AND nvCJD and ALL OF THE OTHER HUMAN TSE's, HAVE or HAVE NOT been proven to be related.........IT'S ALL THEORY!!! If you ask ANY of the Medical Society (ANY OF THEM THAT KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT TSE's) , to prove that nvCJD and CJD are two totally different diseases, THEY CAN'T! All they say, the plaques are more EXTREME, but the brain is identical in all other features.......the symtoms of these Victims are ALL similar, except the fact that most of the nvCJD, has happened in young Victims......... Could it not be, that these people were just, more severly INFECTED??????? and the reason, that they tend to live longer, is because of there age and health??????? Could it not be, that sporadic CJD is just nvCJD, at a less infective state??? OR different strain??? say a TSE from pigs, or cwd etc... Could it not be, that the reason Familia CJD having a longer life span, is because of less infectivity????? (infectivity breaking down through generations)????? If you look at KURU, the eating of the brains etc.,Cannibalism... It makes me wonder about the NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS INDUSTRY, and all the pills that CONTAIN A BOVINE BRAIN, EYE, AND PITUITARY EMULSION......My neighbors Mom died from CJD, she was taking a supplement which contained BOVINE BRAIN, EYE, veal bone, bovine liver powder, porcine stomach, bovine adrenal, bovine kidney, bone meal.......This nice lady taking these pills, died from CJD????? OR THE COSMETICS........My Mom died from hvCJD, this variant destoy's the part of the brain behind the eye's. Although my Moms complete brain was infected, it was worst directly befind the eyes, she went blind first.......SHE LOVED EYE MAKE-UP?????? OR SURGERY........ OR FOOD............... ETC. ETC................ Then you look at the cattle industry, the fact of 800,000,000 cattle raised since 1990 and only 5,700 brains being checked out of those 800,000,000 in 8 years, PLUS, the geographical locations of these 5,700 brains from which they were gathered across the U.S., WERE NOT UNIFORM........ There is 100,000 downers annually........ OUR FEEDING AND RENDERING PRACTICES MIRRORED THAT OF THE U.K. FOR YEARS.........SOME SAY IT WAS WORSE.... SCRAPIE RUNNING RAMPANT IN THE U.S. FOR YEARS........... AND THEY ARE GOING TO TELL US, THAT SPORADIC CJD, " JUST HAPPENS " !!!! " NOT " I DON'T accept their BSe story about nvCJD being totally different from CJD. I DON'T accept their lies that BSE is not in this Country. I just don't see it.......................NOT UNTIL THEY PROVE IT!!! THAT HAS " NOT " BEEN DONE YET!!!!! Terry/MADSON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 1999 Report Share Posted February 21, 1999 -- Bev, you may be correct, but I think it all stems from one thing. " MAN " and " GREED " .........and I think all these TSE are tied to that.............and I believe they are ALL related......who's to say nvCJD hasn't been here since Creutzfeldt and Jakob discovered CJD......nvCJD is just another strain of TSE...... as long as people keep winning Nobel Prizes for different names, they will keep adding names to the same disease....... BevAlso@... wrote: > From: BevAlso@... > > Terry: > Apparently, nvCJD was thought to be different from " sporadic " CJD because > " sporadic " CJD and familial CJD existed in Europe before nvCJD. Everything I > have read seems to conclude that the illnesses are different because of > obvious differences in the brain. It is my understanding that not all the nv > victims were young; while not all of the " sporadic " victims were old. I don't > think any scientist in their right mind would swear that the diseases aren't > related in some way (obviously because the symptoms are similar), but there > are apparently obvious differences. Enough to lead scientists to name it " new > variant " (nv) CJD. They obviously saw something different. I wouldn't think > that scientists would have any reason to hide the truth if it was something > different from what they had found (especially European scientists). > > Scrapie didn't enter the United States until 1949. Dr. Mel Massey (DrJolyn37) > has a textbook that explains how it happened. I believe it came from Canada > to Minnesota or Michigan in the late 1940s. I know that books from my dad's > employment with the Dept. of Agriculture from 1942-1950 doesn't even mention > scrapie and my dad tested and studied sheep and cows (and also crops). > > Also, like your mom, my dad lost his vision first. He went completely blind > before he lost the ability to communicate. He didn't wear makeup. ;0) I am > more inclined to believe that either the victim's age (my dad and your mom > weren't too far apart in age) has something to do with the length of illness > or the amount of infectious material they ingested has something to do with > incubation periods (less infectious material eaten, the longer the incubation > period). Of course, I would think that someone who started showing symptoms > of CJD at age 50 would certainly live longer than someone in their 70s who > started showing symptoms. My dad lasted less than 6 weeks. Mel Massey's wife > (age 56) lived nearly a year. > > I also believe very strongly that " sporadic " CJD is a fatal illness we get > from eating TSE infected animals. I just watched a video prepared by the > Wyoming Game and Fish Department on Chronic Wasting Disease in deer and elk. > The brains of deer and elk with CWD look exactly like the brains of a > " sporadic " CJD victim -- a bunch of holes. One of the state veterinarians in > the tape confirms that white-tailed deer have tested positive for CWD -- I am > pretty convinced that this is where Dad contracted CJD. He ate deer meat > every year and hunted and field-dressed his kill. The video says that hunters > should always wear gloves when field-dressing their kill. Dad hunted white- > tailed deer exclusively in Texas, but his hunting buddies would frequently > bring back deer meat from Colorado. We had better start screaming for CWD > testing in Texas -- I think it will explain our high number of CJD cases. > Beverly G. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > New hobbies? New interests? Sign up for a new ONElist community. > http://www.onelist.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > If you have any questions, problems, concerns, etc... please contact Liz at LArmstr853@..., Pat at Ape826@..., Dolly at DBC006@... or Beverly G at Bevalso@.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 1999 Report Share Posted February 22, 1999 Why do they call it nvCJD? Is it only because of the younger age group being affected? This is only the beginning. I agree with Terry also. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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