Re: Law of Small Numbers and Diabetes

[Guest guest]

that's v. interesting about the labeling. will have to check out dr.

bernstein. thanks for the link!

rach

> GREETINGS --

> As an engineer by training and 40+ years of practice I learned

(often

> the hard way) that the Law of Small Numbers governs many actions

and

> events in our lives. However, until I read Dr Bernstein's Diabetes

> Solution I completely ignored the affect on managing my diabetes.

The

> following is excerpted from his book and explains how a diabetic

can

> use this principle to better manage his/her blood sugars. If you

have

> not read this book I uirge all of you to do so. It is written by a

60

> something year old endocrinologis who has been a Type I diabetic

for

> 50 something years.

> wambo1941

> PS You can read the entire chapter at www.diabetes-

normalsugars.com -

> - going to the Read on Line section.

[Guest guest]

hey! don't know about everybody else, but as a type 1, i don't see

that i'd have any problems with eating any of the recipes - so long

as my carb count was right and i knew where i was at with my insulin.

which, the insulin part, i admit has changed every time i see the

doctor...but that's another story.

rach

> In a message dated 7/19/2004 5:49:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> wambo1941@y... writes:

So, I guess the answer is for

> type 1's to avoid recipes all together, and eat plain fare. As

for type 2's,

> we have no problem with the recipes I send, as we do not have to

tighten the

> grips on carbs so tightly. Make sense? Sorry to the type 1's out

there, I do

> not desire it to be this way, but I see no alternative.

[Guest guest]

Other way around. The Type I people can eat whatever they want and just give

themselves more insulin to cover it; the Type II people are the ones that should

cut their carbs to a minimum to avoid having to take meds and/or insulin, or to

minimize what they must take. This was, at least, what my doctor told me.

[alldiabeticinternational] Re: Law of Small Numbers and Diabetes

hey! don't know about everybody else, but as a type 1, i don't see

that i'd have any problems with eating any of the recipes - so long

as my carb count was right and i knew where i was at with my insulin.

which, the insulin part, i admit has changed every time i see the

doctor...but that's another story.

rach

> In a message dated 7/19/2004 5:49:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> wambo1941@y... writes:

So, I guess the answer is for

> type 1's to avoid recipes all together, and eat plain fare. As

for type 2's,

> we have no problem with the recipes I send, as we do not have to

tighten the

> grips on carbs so tightly. Make sense? Sorry to the type 1's out

there, I do

> not desire it to be this way, but I see no alternative.

pancreatitis info

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ThePancreatitisPlace/

diabetic recipes

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/diabetic_recipes/

[Guest guest]

> hey! don't know about everybody else, but as a type 1, i don't see

> that i'd have any problems with eating any of the recipes - so long

> as my carb count was right and i knew where i was at with my

insulin.

>

> which, the insulin part, i admit has changed every time i see the

> doctor...but that's another story.

>

your doctor is giving bad advice! type 1 is insulin dependent wemust

inject insulin to survive. we do not get to eat whatever we want and

just give coverage for the food intake

i have been diabetic type 1 for 37 years and i have ssen a lot of

quacks out there. your md sounds like one !

type 2 are the lucky ones they can take pills to stimulate their

pancreas and get insulin. many type 2 just adjust their food intake

and they may even get off meds. never always trust a doctor...for

they can bury their mistakes

[Guest guest]

Might be wrong here but I've noticed a lot of type one or type 2 on insulin

view food differently. Its the , ok I can eat that and use THIS much insulin

and I'll be fine.

Us on pills cant do that...

REbecca

--

Some men have thousands of reasons why they cannot do what

they want to, when all they need is one reason why they can.

Willis Whitney

>

> Reply-To: alldiabeticinternational

> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:35:32 -0000

> To: alldiabeticinternational

> Subject: [alldiabeticinternational] Re: Law of Small Numbers and Diabetes

>

> hey! don't know about everybody else, but as a type 1, i don't see

> that i'd have any problems with eating any of the recipes - so long

> as my carb count was right and i knew where i was at with my insulin.

>

> which, the insulin part, i admit has changed every time i see the

> doctor...but that's another story.

>

> rach

>

>

>

>> In a message dated 7/19/2004 5:49:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,

>> wambo1941@y... writes:

> So, I guess the answer is for

>> type 1's to avoid recipes all together, and eat plain fare. As

> for type 2's,

>> we have no problem with the recipes I send, as we do not have to

> tighten the

>> grips on carbs so tightly. Make sense? Sorry to the type 1's out

> there, I do

>> not desire it to be this way, but I see no alternative.

>

>

>

>

>

> pancreatitis info

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ThePancreatitisPlace/

>

> diabetic recipes

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/diabetic_recipes/

>

[Guest guest]

I politely have to say that what may work for you may

not work for the other person. As for Type 2s, we do

not have it easy. We struggle with portion control and

finding out what foods harm ou bg levels. Not easy to

do all the time.

--- tatar19@... tatar19@...> wrote:

> > hey! don't know about everybody else, but as a

type 1, i don't see

> > that i'd have any problems with eating any of the

recipes - so long

> > as my carb count was right and i knew where i was

at with my

> insulin.

> >

> > which, the insulin part, i admit has changed every

time i see the

> > doctor...but that's another story.

> >

>

> your doctor is giving bad advice! type 1 is insulin

dependent wemust

> inject insulin to survive. we do not get to eat

whatever we want and

> just give coverage for the food intake

> i have been diabetic type 1 for 37 years and i have

ssen a lot of

> quacks out there. your md sounds like one !

> type 2 are the lucky ones they can take pills to

stimulate their

> pancreas and get insulin. many type 2 just adjust

their food intake

> and they may even get off meds. never always trust

a doctor...for

> they can bury their mistakes

>

>

=====

Gloria Lysa gloria9055@...

[Guest guest]

> The Type I people can eat whatever they want and just give themselves more

> insulin to cover it;

>

Weelll we should eat healthy to cover it. Also Im bad about eating low carb

to avoid " extra " shots (I have to take 2 70/30 shots a day but dont like to

take a lot more, I want a pump waaaaa)

[Guest guest]

> hey! don't know about everybody else, but as a type 1, i don't see

> that i'd have any problems with eating any of the recipes - so long

> as my carb count was right and i knew where i was at with my insulin.

>

>

Cause Im still on shots and want a pump waaaa!!

[Guest guest]

> Might be wrong here but I've noticed a lot of type one or type 2 on insulin

> view food differently. Its the , ok I can eat that and use THIS much insulin

> and I'll be fine.

> Us on pills cant do that...

> REbecca

>

Well I was joking earlier about wanting a pump so I can do this but i was

sort of joking. Personally I feel type one and type two's should all eat healthy

and not eat what they want and figure it can be covered with insulin.

Especially since even well controlled diabetics get complications.

[Guest guest]

dnevessr@... wrote:

>As a type 2, we have no problem with the amount of carbs I post. So, I

>guess the answer is for

>type 1's to avoid recipes all together, and eat plain fare. As for type

>2's, we have no problem with the recipes I send, as we do not have to

>tighten the grips on carbs so tightly.

Huh?? That's just about exactly backwards . . . or at least patently false.

Type 1's can adjust insulin dosage to cover carbs without the problems of

insulin-resistance but many (T1's) choose to eat lower carb for numerous

reasons.

>Make sense? Sorry to the type 1's out there, I do not desire it to be

>this way, but I see no alternative.

Nope, makes no sense at all and unless you have some significant experience

with being a Type 1 and can speak from that experience, I suggest you

refrain from such statements regarding our (T1's) " alternatives " (or lack

thereof) and from providing erroneous " answers " for us.

Sandy

T1 -1979

[Guest guest]

Marilyn, you said: As for type 2's, we have no problem with the recipes I send,

as we do not have to tighten the grips on carbs so tightly.

That is just not so. Many many of us have to have very tight control on carbs

and I for one cannot use ANY of the receipes you post. They are heavily carb

laden for me and for a lot of us.

I can't believe you said that.

[alldiabeticinternational] Re: Law of Small Numbers and Diabetes

dnevessr@... wrote:

>As a type 2, we have no problem with the amount of carbs I post. So, I

>guess the answer is for

>type 1's to avoid recipes all together, and eat plain fare. As for type

>2's, we have no problem with the recipes I send, as we do not have to

>tighten the grips on carbs so tightly.

Huh?? That's just about exactly backwards . . . or at least patently false.

Type 1's can adjust insulin dosage to cover carbs without the problems of

insulin-resistance but many (T1's) choose to eat lower carb for numerous

reasons.

>Make sense? Sorry to the type 1's out there, I do not desire it to be

>this way, but I see no alternative.

Nope, makes no sense at all and unless you have some significant experience

with being a Type 1 and can speak from that experience, I suggest you

refrain from such statements regarding our (T1's) " alternatives " (or lack

thereof) and from providing erroneous " answers " for us.

Sandy

T1 -1979

[Guest guest]

> Seeing it qritten down like this, explaining the differences between

> type 1 and 2, makes it clear why type 1's would avoid them.  As a type 2, we

> have no problem with the amount of carbs I post.  So, I guess the answer is

> for

> type 1's to avoid recipes all together, and eat plain fare.  As for type

> 2's,

> we have no problem with the recipes I send, as we do not have to tighten the

> grips on carbs so tightly.  Make sense?  Sorry to the type 1's out there, I

> do

> not desire it to be this way, but I see no alternative.

>

maybe its late but i dont see any sense in what you are saying? In my opinion

diet is also very individual, there are type ones that have to watch it as

well as type two's, and then there are some of both groups that eat what they

want... different food effect different people in individual ways etc.. and why

would type one's " avoid recipes all together? " That doesnt make any sense to

me...

[Guest guest]

I am trying to figure out who wrote what here, but someone needs to be aware

that this blatantly erroneous commentary about quacks most definitely should be

ignored. Actually, I have many T1 diabetics as friends and many are on pumps and

are pretty free to eat as they please.....At issue is that when you eat what you

want and take insulin because of what you eat, you are promoting an increase in

the body's ability to convert glucose to fat....

[alldiabeticinternational] Re: Law of Small Numbers and Diabetes

> hey! don't know about everybody else, but as a type 1, i don't see

> that i'd have any problems with eating any of the recipes - so long

> as my carb count was right and i knew where i was at with my

insulin.

>

> which, the insulin part, i admit has changed every time i see the

> doctor...but that's another story.

>

your doctor is giving bad advice! type 1 is insulin dependent wemust

inject insulin to survive. we do not get to eat whatever we want and

just give coverage for the food intake

i have been diabetic type 1 for 37 years and i have ssen a lot of

quacks out there. your md sounds like one !

type 2 are the lucky ones they can take pills to stimulate their

pancreas and get insulin. many type 2 just adjust their food intake

and they may even get off meds. never always trust a doctor...for

they can bury their mistakes

pancreatitis info

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ThePancreatitisPlace/

diabetic recipes

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/diabetic_recipes/

[Guest guest]

well, that came off a little sharp. i will trust you didn't mean it

that way, and i will trust you didn't mean to suggest that a diet

severely restricted in carbs is a good thing for diabetics. the

*diabetic diet* of severely restricted carbs was killing people off

early. that is known.

just to let you know, i go to a research hospital, my doctor is head

of the diabetes clinic, and they are cutting edge. this is where you

go when others fail you.

oral meds are not as flexible as insulin. if one is managing with

diet and exercise alone, although one's carb counting may not need

to be as precise, de facto diet and exercise play a greater role.

there are no other options for correcting.

also, marilyn said the standard for the recipes were 45 g CHO. that

is not *hogwild* and *eating whatever you want.* i would seriously

question any diet that insists on lower amounts. you may be

*controlling* your blood sugars, but what else are you doing to

yourself?

rach

> > hey! don't know about everybody else, but as a type 1, i don't

see

> > that i'd have any problems with eating any of the recipes - so

long

> > as my carb count was right and i knew where i was at with my

> insulin.

> >

> > which, the insulin part, i admit has changed every time i see

the

> > doctor...but that's another story.

> >

>

> your doctor is giving bad advice! type 1 is insulin dependent

wemust

> inject insulin to survive. we do not get to eat whatever we want

and

> just give coverage for the food intake

> i have been diabetic type 1 for 37 years and i have ssen a lot of

> quacks out there. your md sounds like one !

> type 2 are the lucky ones they can take pills to stimulate their

> pancreas and get insulin. many type 2 just adjust their food

intake

> and they may even get off meds. never always trust a doctor...for

> they can bury their mistakes

[Guest guest]

I just have step on this one. One last time, I hope.....Please

NOTE.....AGAIN...Not all T2 diabetics have the enviable opportunity nor the

nearly insane drive to virtually stop eating because of an all powerful desire

to avoid meds or shots. Some of us, as a matter of fact, I would imagine most of

us want to have a reasonable resemblance of a life. Listening to this driven

commentary about food restriction is like the jogger who becomes so addicted to

the running they become a 5 times per week marathoner. For most of us there is

more to life. I guess that is why there are meds and insulin to treat the

disease for normal humans. The sad thing is that you are just kidding yourself

if you think you are going to have a quality of life and live till death without

having to treat diabetes just because your body no longer needs insulin because

you no longer ingest carbs/sugars for your liver to process to glucose.

Eventually, if not this year, then the next, or maybe 5 years later, something

is going to break down. I am sorry, but I am going out on a limb and state it is

my belief that there are very few people who approach T2 diabetes with this

fanaticism....

[alldiabeticinternational] Re: Law of Small Numbers and Diabetes

dnevessr@... wrote:

>As a type 2, we have no problem with the amount of carbs I post. So, I

>guess the answer is for

>type 1's to avoid recipes all together, and eat plain fare. As for type

>2's, we have no problem with the recipes I send, as we do not have to

>tighten the grips on carbs so tightly.

Huh?? That's just about exactly backwards . . . or at least patently false.

Type 1's can adjust insulin dosage to cover carbs without the problems of

insulin-resistance but many (T1's) choose to eat lower carb for numerous

reasons.

>Make sense? Sorry to the type 1's out there, I do not desire it to be

>this way, but I see no alternative.

Nope, makes no sense at all and unless you have some significant experience

with being a Type 1 and can speak from that experience, I suggest you

refrain from such statements regarding our (T1's) " alternatives " (or lack

thereof) and from providing erroneous " answers " for us.

Sandy

T1 -1979

[Guest guest]

----Thank you....I hoped I wasn't the only one who believed this, and I

have made other posts to this effect....And I have been under the observation of

one of the best Endo/Diabetes Ed/Lipids management departments in Wisconsin, if

not the Midwest....Your comments are right on!!!!----ROLF

[alldiabeticinternational] Re: Law of Small Numbers and Diabetes

well, that came off a little sharp. i will trust you didn't mean it

that way, and i will trust you didn't mean to suggest that a diet

severely restricted in carbs is a good thing for diabetics. the

*diabetic diet* of severely restricted carbs was killing people off

early. that is known.

just to let you know, i go to a research hospital, my doctor is head

of the diabetes clinic, and they are cutting edge. this is where you

go when others fail you.

oral meds are not as flexible as insulin. if one is managing with

diet and exercise alone, although one's carb counting may not need

to be as precise, de facto diet and exercise play a greater role.

there are no other options for correcting.

also, marilyn said the standard for the recipes were 45 g CHO. that

is not *hogwild* and *eating whatever you want.* i would seriously

question any diet that insists on lower amounts. you may be

*controlling* your blood sugars, but what else are you doing to

yourself?

rach

> > hey! don't know about everybody else, but as a type 1, i don't

see

> > that i'd have any problems with eating any of the recipes - so

long

> > as my carb count was right and i knew where i was at with my

> insulin.

> >

> > which, the insulin part, i admit has changed every time i see

the

> > doctor...but that's another story.

> >

>

> your doctor is giving bad advice! type 1 is insulin dependent

wemust

> inject insulin to survive. we do not get to eat whatever we want

and

> just give coverage for the food intake

> i have been diabetic type 1 for 37 years and i have ssen a lot of

> quacks out there. your md sounds like one !

> type 2 are the lucky ones they can take pills to stimulate their

> pancreas and get insulin. many type 2 just adjust their food

intake

> and they may even get off meds. never always trust a doctor...for

> they can bury their mistakes

pancreatitis info

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ThePancreatitisPlace/

diabetic recipes

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/diabetic_recipes/

[Guest guest]

>

> also, marilyn said the standard for the recipes were 45 g CHO. that

> is not *hogwild* and *eating whatever you want.* i would seriously

> question any diet that insists on lower amounts. you may be

> *controlling* your blood sugars, but what else are you doing to

> yourself?

>

> rach

Well, let's see... I eat somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-75 g.

of total net carbs a day, usually no more than 15 g. per meal or

snack. I find that this is the level that works best for my

metabolism, and this was arrived at by trial and error, lots of

testing, and consultations with dietitians. Most of the carbs come

from fresh vegetables, which I eat a lot of. I also limit my

saturated fat intake, but eat nuts, avocados, olive oil, etc., and I

eat fish and lean meat in moderate portions. I also do moderate

exercise daily. I've been doing this for 3 years. In that time I

lost considerable weight (I'm 5 ft. 7 in., and weigh 135 now), and my

BMI is now around 20, down 10 points. My cholesterol levels are

normal, down from the high 300s, without the help of medications. My

triglycerides are also normal, down from the high 400s. My HbA1c

averages in the high 4s to low 5s, down from 10.7, and my BG levels

stay at non-diabetic numbers pretty much all the time. My blood

pressure is normal. I have three times the energy I once had and

feel at least 10 years younger. My overall health has improved so

much that I have been able to stop taking medication for three other

chronic illnesses; GERD, asthma and depression. I stopped taking

diabetes medication after 6 months of this lifestyle. I enjoy the

food I eat and find it much more tasty than the high starch diet I

once had. I will occasionally eat a small portion of mashed

potatoes, and sometimes eat legumes, but the rest of the starchy

foods don't even look good to me. I feel so much better now than I

did before that I find this a very easy lifestyle to maintain and

wouldn't go back to eating the way I used to for anything. My whole

family has adopted this style of eating and we all love it. Your

mileage may vary, but my medical team agrees that I'm in great shape

now and this is working very well for me.

Christy

T-2, D&E

[Guest guest]

well, that sounds good - eating lots of fresh veggies. and if you

feel good and have good labwork, that's worth a billion.

theoretically, my dietician has ok'd up to 75g CHO per meal (that's

gross not net)...and at the risk of repeating myself...that is too

much for me. the only way for me to do that is to inhale twinkies.

i have become wary of going too low though in general. our digestive

system is made for eating primarily things like fresh veg and whole

grains. more than blood glucose and even heart-health depends on

carb intake. in addition to the brain stuff i've been hearing about,

i've been reading how much it's needed by the central nervous system

and red blood cells.

veering off on a tangent - i've been unimpressed, even downright

worried, about things i've been reading on the net from low-low-low

carb diet proponents. the idea that it's just dandy to get the

glucose form your body needs by converting protein and fat...is so

not OK.

rach

> Well, let's see... I eat somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-75

g.

> of total net carbs a day, usually no more than 15 g. per meal or

> snack. I find that this is the level that works best for my

> metabolism, and this was arrived at by trial and error, lots of

> testing, and consultations with dietitians. Most of the carbs

come

> from fresh vegetables, which I eat a lot of. I also limit my

> saturated fat intake, but eat nuts, avocados, olive oil, etc., and

I

> eat fish and lean meat in moderate portions. I also do moderate

> exercise daily. I've been doing this for 3 years. In that time I

> lost considerable weight (I'm 5 ft. 7 in., and weigh 135 now), and

my

> BMI is now around 20, down 10 points. My cholesterol levels are

> normal, down from the high 300s, without the help of medications.

My

> triglycerides are also normal, down from the high 400s. My HbA1c

> averages in the high 4s to low 5s, down from 10.7, and my BG

levels

> stay at non-diabetic numbers pretty much all the time. My blood

> pressure is normal. I have three times the energy I once had and

> feel at least 10 years younger. My overall health has improved so

> much that I have been able to stop taking medication for three

other

> chronic illnesses; GERD, asthma and depression. I stopped taking

> diabetes medication after 6 months of this lifestyle. I enjoy the

> food I eat and find it much more tasty than the high starch diet I

> once had. I will occasionally eat a small portion of mashed

> potatoes, and sometimes eat legumes, but the rest of the starchy

> foods don't even look good to me. I feel so much better now than

I

> did before that I find this a very easy lifestyle to maintain and

> wouldn't go back to eating the way I used to for anything. My

whole

> family has adopted this style of eating and we all love it. Your

> mileage may vary, but my medical team agrees that I'm in great

shape

> now and this is working very well for me.

>

> Christy

> T-2, D&E

[Guest guest]

For some reason, most of the messages on this thread have been blocked from my

mailbox, so I am sorry if I am covering something that has been said before, but

are you familiar with DR. BERNSTEIN'S DIABETES SOLUTION? The author is a

board-certified cardiologist who is diabetic himself; he has been sticking to a

strict low-carb diet for a very long time, and recommends it to his diabetic

patients. I saw him recently on a talk show; for a septigenarian whose parents

were told he probably wouldn't see 25 he's looking pretty good.

[alldiabeticinternational] Re: Law of Small Numbers and Diabetes

well, that came off a little sharp. i will trust you didn't mean it

that way, and i will trust you didn't mean to suggest that a diet

severely restricted in carbs is a good thing for diabetics. the

*diabetic diet* of severely restricted carbs was killing people off

early. that is known.

[Guest guest]

rfong_tom3 wrote:

> i will trust you didn't mean to suggest that a diet

>severely restricted in carbs is a good thing for diabetics. the

>*diabetic diet* of severely restricted carbs was killing people off

>early. that is known.

As a matter of fact, more recent thought in diabetic treatment says exactly

that . . . i.e., " that a diet severely restricted in carbs is a good thing

for diabetics. " The standard " diabetic diet " long recommended by the ADA

(and based on the Exchange system) is much higher in carbs, in fact based

on lots of carbs. The difference between those approaches is creating tons

of controversy these days (which is reflected in the various disagreements

on all the diabetes lists and everywhere else). The lower carb approach is

based on the fact that higher carbs create higher peaks in BG and that the

lower the BG peaks, the easier it is to keep BG lower and stable. " Low

carb " eating has lots of variations/degrees. Those who go really low carb,

aim to keep their carb consumption below 50-60 grams of carb per day (from

any source) . . . a more moderate approach is 100 or less (gr of carb per

day) and lots of other personal preference levels. Before insulin was

invented, the standard method of treating diabetes (i.e., to keep BG levels

as low as possible for as long as possible to prolong life) was to nearly

starve the person.

With the new panic re: obesity in the general (USA) population and the

popularity/success of low carb diets such as Atkins and South Beach, there

is ever increasing info and thought that " lower " carb eating is necessary.

How low is " lower " is a comparative thing and perspectives certainly vary

which is the source of lots of controversy these days re: " the right way to

eat " and " for whom. "

Sandy

T1 -1979

[Guest guest]

Rolf Utegaard wrote:

>Actually, I have many T1 diabetics as friends and many are on pumps and

>are pretty free to eat as they please.....At issue is that when you eat

>what you want and take insulin because of what you eat, you are promoting

>an increase in the body's ability to convert glucose to fat....

.. . . which puts you in the same boat as all " normal " people on the planet

.. . . eat more than you burn and you'll gain weight. Not a new concept.

Sandy

[Guest guest]

Rolf Utegaard wrote:

>The sad thing is that you are just kidding yourself if you think you are

>going to have a quality of life and live till death

That's exactly what I plan to do (and what will happen whether or not

I do any " planning " ) , i.e., " live till death, " and only I can decide what

constitutes " quality of life " to me along the way.

>For most of us there is more to life.

Yup, at least for me there is, but that's an individual choice.

Sandy

T1 - 1979

[Guest guest]

hi sandy! not quite sure i'm reading your post right.

the recommended diet IS lower in carbs than the old ADA diet. BUT

this does not translate into *severely restricted*. as you say,

there is *lower* v. *low*.

also, there is no *diabetic diet* anymore. the *diabetic diet* -

i.e. the diet recommended to diabetics is what everyone should eat.

it is more important for diabetics to eat healthy, because of the

greater risks they run, but this is a very different thing.

this reminds of something that a post, which escapes me now, made me

think. a lot of insulin running around in your system is not a good

thing. insulin is a fair-weather friend; more is not better. but

with that said, it's not the enemy either. there is a point where

even if you could get by without meds (oral or injected), it is

better to take them and eat a normal, healthy, rounded diet.

i know a number of dieticians are comfortable with the zone and

south beach (not mine), but i have yet to meet anyone ok with atkins.

rach

> > i will trust you didn't mean to suggest that a diet

> >severely restricted in carbs is a good thing for diabetics. the

> >*diabetic diet* of severely restricted carbs was killing people

off

> >early. that is known.

>

> As a matter of fact, more recent thought in diabetic treatment

says exactly

> that . . . i.e., " that a diet severely restricted in carbs is a

good thing

> for diabetics. " The standard " diabetic diet " long recommended by

the ADA

> (and based on the Exchange system) is much higher in carbs, in

fact based

> on lots of carbs. The difference between those approaches is

creating tons

> of controversy these days (which is reflected in the various

disagreements

> on all the diabetes lists and everywhere else). The lower carb

approach is

> based on the fact that higher carbs create higher peaks in BG and

that the

> lower the BG peaks, the easier it is to keep BG lower and

stable. " Low

> carb " eating has lots of variations/degrees. Those who go really

low carb,

> aim to keep their carb consumption below 50-60 grams of carb per

day (from

> any source) . . . a more moderate approach is 100 or less (gr of

carb per

> day) and lots of other personal preference levels. Before insulin

was

> invented, the standard method of treating diabetes (i.e., to keep

BG levels

> as low as possible for as long as possible to prolong life) was to

nearly

> starve the person.

>

> With the new panic re: obesity in the general (USA) population and

the

> popularity/success of low carb diets such as Atkins and South

Beach, there

> is ever increasing info and thought that " lower " carb eating is

necessary.

> How low is " lower " is a comparative thing and perspectives

certainly vary

> which is the source of lots of controversy these days re: " the

right way to

> eat " and " for whom. "

>

> Sandy

> T1 -1979

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

dr. bernstein sounds interesting. i really will have to check out

his book. anybody read julian whitaker's *reversing diabetes*? i was

wondering how they might compare, in the meanwhile.

this all makes me think of...was it newsweek or time?...did anybody

catch it?...on low carb diets. there was an article about *severely

restricted in carb* diets. some studies showed that rats did live

longer on such diets. anyways, can't remember the name of this

featured scientist / doctor (not diabetic as far as it was

mentioned), who was doing such a diet himself in the hopes of

longevity. but his metabolism was so off, he was wearing several

pairs of pants just to keep warm.

so...it was like he'll live a real long time provided he isn't

killed off by cold first.

actually, that's kind of a crack up. the ultimate test. if you find

yourself wearing several pairs of pants, esp. if it's in summer, eat

more carbs!

rach

> For some reason, most of the messages on this thread have been

blocked from my mailbox, so I am sorry if I am covering something

that has been said before, but are you familiar with DR. BERNSTEIN'S

DIABETES SOLUTION? The author is a board-certified cardiologist who

is diabetic himself; he has been sticking to a strict low-carb diet

for a very long time, and recommends it to his diabetic patients. I

saw him recently on a talk show; for a septigenarian whose parents

were told he probably wouldn't see 25 he's looking pretty good.

>

> [alldiabeticinternational] Re: Law of Small Numbers and

Diabetes

>

>

> well, that came off a little sharp. i will trust you didn't mean

it

> that way, and i will trust you didn't mean to suggest that a diet

> severely restricted in carbs is a good thing for diabetics. the

> *diabetic diet* of severely restricted carbs was killing people

off

> early. that is known.

[Guest guest]

ok. now i just have to mention that the #1 cause of death is life ;>

enjoy life while you can. lol!

rach

> >The sad thing is that you are just kidding yourself if you think

you are

> >going to have a quality of life and live till death

>

> That's exactly what I plan to do (and what will happen

whether or not

> I do any " planning " ) , i.e., " live till death, " and only I can

decide what

> constitutes " quality of life " to me along the way.

>

> >For most of us there is more to life.

>

> Yup, at least for me there is, but that's an individual choice.

>

> Sandy

> T1 - 1979

>

>

>