Re: Reinsulin and a shorter life

December 31, 2005

I think what has happened is that people relied on the insulin and failed to

inform themselves and actually eat properly. Thus they had problems, didn't live

as long and it was thought that when one came to a need for insulin (especially

as an older adult) then the life span would be shortened. Of course, no one

actually thought this through and it became something passed down. I've seen

this carried through my own family history dating back to the 1930's or 40's.

Bev in the Oregon flood zone

Re: Re: New Here

At 05:06 PM 12/30/05, kathleenataylor wrote:

>But doesn't insulin shorten your lifespan? I thought that once you

>start on insulin then your lifespan is automatically shortened.

Well...if you don't have diabetes your pancreas makes insulin all of the

time. So why would injecting insulin shorten life?

sky

December 31, 2005

I think you're probably right, Bev, except that they couldn't really

inform themselves because groups like this didn't exist and docs didn't

know any better. They still don't, alas. As far as eating properly --

we know that the ADA diet is generally harmful to diabetics. But the

vast majority of docs still refer people to the ADA diet and get their

major information about " controlling " diabetes through the ADA. Even

despite evidence that it doesn't work very well for most diabetics.

Bureaucracies move forward very, very slowly. The the ADA is definitely

a bureaucracy.

Vicki

Re: Re: New Here

>

> At 05:06 PM 12/30/05, kathleenataylor wrote:

>

> >But doesn't insulin shorten your lifespan? I thought that once you

> >start on insulin then your lifespan is automatically shortened.

>

> Well...if you don't have diabetes your pancreas makes insulin all of

> the

> time. So why would injecting insulin shorten life?

>

> sky

>

December 31, 2005

Back in the 30's and 40's they didn't know how to eat right for diabetes.

Regimens were done by

guesswork. Since glucose testing wasn't even dreamed of yet there was no way to

gain any

worthwhile control, or inform themselves about what neededdoing.

So yes, they relied on the insulin, as told by their doctors " take so many units

in the morning

and everything will work fine "

Hardly ever worked, and trying to correct things was an endless series of trial

and error that

might not arrive at any reasonable improvement.

I know, since I was diagnosed in 1956, and that's how it was THEN. Correcting

high bg levels by

changing doses and adjusting meals was unheard of. Those started coming into use

in the '80s, at

least in my experience, but again we relied of glucose testing to make any

progress.

Things have come a LONG way, but the old practices still remain in too many

doctor's offices,

particularly those to set in their ways to realize what has changed.

Ted Quick

--- Bev Bevjjonesmls@...> wrote:

> I think what has happened is that people relied on the insulin and failed

to inform

> themselves and actually eat properly. Thus they had problems, didn't live as

long and it was

> thought that when one came to a need for insulin (especially as an older

adult) then the life

> span would be shortened. Of course, no one actually thought this through and

it became

> something passed down. I've seen this carried through my own family history

dating back to the

> 1930's or 40's.

>

> Bev in the Oregon flood zone

> Re: Re: New Here

>

> At 05:06 PM 12/30/05, kathleenataylor wrote:

>

> >But doesn't insulin shorten your lifespan? I thought that once you

> >start on insulin then your lifespan is automatically shortened.

>

> Well...if you don't have diabetes your pancreas makes insulin all of the

> time. So why would injecting insulin shorten life?

>

> sky

>

December 31, 2005

Ted I'm going to ask you some questions. We have a long family history of

diabetes in which no one was controlled. According to my mother the relatives

that got gangrene never stopped eating foods high in sugar content. This was

late 50's early 60's and I keep wondering what were doctors telling people back

then? The person I am thinking of lived in a very remote rural area in Northern

California near the Oregon line and I suspect the doctors were elderly and had

little up to date training. She eventually had her leg amputated and died of

complications. I lived roughly 90 miles away and our population back then was

6000. Today both areas are larger and have better facilities especially with the

improved technology. We are in a mountainous area and still find travel in and

out blocked due to snow and 2 days ago to landslides.

Bev in So. Oregon

Re: Reinsulin and a shorter life

Back in the 30's and 40's they didn't know how to eat right for diabetes.

Regimens were done by

guesswork. Since glucose testing wasn't even dreamed of yet there was no way

to gain any

worthwhile control, or inform themselves about what neededdoing.

So yes, they relied on the insulin, as told by their doctors " take so many

units in the morning

and everything will work fine "

Hardly ever worked, and trying to correct things was an endless series of

trial and error that

might not arrive at any reasonable improvement.

I know, since I was diagnosed in 1956, and that's how it was THEN. Correcting

high bg levels by

changing doses and adjusting meals was unheard of. Those started coming into

use in the '80s, at

least in my experience, but again we relied of glucose testing to make any

progress.

Things have come a LONG way, but the old practices still remain in too many

doctor's offices,

particularly those to set in their ways to realize what has changed.

_

January 1, 2006

Back then the only approach that ANY doctors had was to set up a strict diet

with meals at

definite times with exact amounts of carbs, proteins and fats for each meal.

That was done by the

GOOD docotors, though I expect that most docotors didn't understand well enough

to train their

diabetic patients, and/or the patients ignored what they said (sound familiar?)

As always knowledge is power and treatment can only e effective if carried out

by the end user, a

diabetic with enough will (oe\r WON'T) power to take control of their condtion.

Of coure before bg

meters became available most people would get discouraged, since urine testing

only showed when

they were high (BTDT) and as much ass 8 hours late, so relating readings to

reality was largely

non-existent unless they ran consistently even with no glucose showing in the

tests.. Of course

that only kept them below 180 or so, and as we know now that leads to

complications.

So you can't really blame anyone particularly in an absolute sense, but still

eating sugar under

those conditions is a sign....

Ted Quick

--- Bev Bevjjonesmls@...> wrote:

> Ted I'm going to ask you some questions. We have a long family history of

diabetes in which no

> one was controlled. According to my mother the relatives that got gangrene

never stopped eating

> foods high in sugar content. This was late 50's early 60's and I keep

wondering what were

> doctors telling people back then? The person I am thinking of lived in a very

remote rural area

> in Northern California near the Oregon line and I suspect the doctors were

elderly and had

> little up to date training. She eventually had her leg amputated and died of

complications. I

> lived roughly 90 miles away and our population back then was 6000. Today both

areas are larger

> and have better facilities especially with the improved technology. We are in

a mountainous area

> and still find travel in and out blocked due to snow and 2 days ago to

landslides.

>

> Bev in So. Oregon

> Re: Reinsulin and a shorter life

>

> Back in the 30's and 40's they didn't know how to eat right for diabetes.

Regimens were done

> by

> guesswork. Since glucose testing wasn't even dreamed of yet there was no way

to gain any

> worthwhile control, or inform themselves about what neededdoing.

>

> So yes, they relied on the insulin, as told by their doctors " take so many

units in the

> morning

> and everything will work fine "

> Hardly ever worked, and trying to correct things was an endless series of

trial and error that

> might not arrive at any reasonable improvement.

>

> I know, since I was diagnosed in 1956, and that's how it was THEN.

Correcting high bg levels

> by

> changing doses and adjusting meals was unheard of. Those started coming into

use in the '80s,

> at

> least in my experience, but again we relied of glucose testing to make any

progress.

>

> Things have come a LONG way, but the old practices still remain in too many

doctor's offices,

> particularly those to set in their ways to realize what has changed.

>

> _

>

January 1, 2006

Hi, Bev...I'm not Ted (obviously) and I've only been diabetic for 8

years, but from what I've read, there was some evidence even back 50

years that avoiding " starches " could prolong the life of diabetics.

However, the medical professionals who understood this were few and far

between. And at that time the only available testing was by testing for

ketones, which was extremely inaccurate and only gave results hours

after the fact.

We are extremely lucky to have diabetes now, not 10 - or 50 years ago.

While it's true that even now not a lot of diabetics are motivated to

change, at least the information and technology is there for those of us

who want to be proactive. And there's the internet, which is available

to help spread the word.

Vicki, grateful for technology and the internet

Re: Reinsulin and a shorter life

>

> Back in the 30's and 40's they didn't know how to eat right for

> diabetes. Regimens were done by

> guesswork. Since glucose testing wasn't even dreamed of yet there was

> no way to gain any

> worthwhile control, or inform themselves about what neededdoing.

>

> So yes, they relied on the insulin, as told by their doctors " take so

> many units in the morning

> and everything will work fine "

> Hardly ever worked, and trying to correct things was an endless

> series of trial and error that

> might not arrive at any reasonable improvement.

>

> I know, since I was diagnosed in 1956, and that's how it was THEN.

> Correcting high bg levels by

> changing doses and adjusting meals was unheard of. Those started

> coming into use in the '80s, at

> least in my experience, but again we relied of glucose testing to

> make any progress.

>

> Things have come a LONG way, but the old practices still remain in

> too many doctor's offices,

> particularly those to set in their ways to realize what has changed.

>

January 1, 2006

I guess what amazes me is that when I was in college (72-77) I wrote a paper on

hypoglycemia and had no trouble finding plenty of information which usually

included references to diabetes. It always seemed to me that this should have

meant that other adults could too. I do have to remind myself that others

haven't been determined to find whatever they wanted to know since elementary

school and read adult materials in 4th grade. It has always seemed normal to me

and I tend to expect others to be as hungry for information as I am. Does anyone

remember Short Circuit and ny 5 saying " I need input " ?

Bev ,MLS

Re: Reinsulin and a shorter life

Hi, Bev...I'm not Ted (obviously) and I've only been diabetic for 8

years, but from what I've read, there was some evidence even back 50

years that avoiding " starches " could prolong the life of diabetics.

However, the medical professionals who understood this were few and far

between. And at that time the only available testing was by testing for

ketones, which was extremely inaccurate and only gave results hours

after the fact.

We are extremely lucky to have diabetes now, not 10 - or 50 years ago.

While it's true that even now not a lot of diabetics are motivated to

change, at least the information and technology is there for those of us

who want to be proactive. And there's the internet, which is available

to help spread the word.

Vicki, grateful for technology and the internet

January 1, 2006

Bev, my grandfather died in 1953 from complications of diabetes that

was never diagnosed. He got a slight scrape on a leg, and it just would

not heal. They even put maggots in it to eat the dead flesh. I'm sure

that he is the source of the diabetes in my family, but he went to

Duke, actually died at Duke, and they did not diagnose him with

diabetes. So I don't think the area really mattered. Doctors obviously

did not understand diabetes back then. Many still don't, sad to say.

Sue

> Ted I'm going to ask you some questions. We have a long family history

> of diabetes in which no one was controlled. According to my mother the

> relatives that got gangrene never stopped eating foods high in sugar

> content. This was late 50's early 60's and I keep wondering what were

> doctors telling people back then? The person I am thinking of lived in

> a very remote rural area in Northern California near the Oregon line

> and I suspect the doctors were elderly and had little up to date

> training. She eventually had her leg amputated and died of

> complications. I lived roughly 90 miles away and our population back

> then was 6000. Today both areas are larger and have better facilities

> especially with the improved technology. We are in a mountainous area

> and still find travel in and out blocked due to snow and 2 days ago to

> landslides.

January 1, 2006