boundaries

[Guest guest]

Elaine,

My friend Kirsten wrote that boundaries clip.

I'll relay your message to her.

--- A Friend helpbpdmom@...> wrote:

> Thank you for the great clip on boundaries, I ahve

> also created it in a file and will use the

> philosophy to help me stay strong.

>

> My therapist is constantly on about bounbdaries and

> I think I ahve aslo seen this as a way to control

> rather that to protect myself and I do know that

> whne I state a boundary clearly and direclty I ahve

> better success. Wishy washy just gives her

> permission to test.

>

> She jsut called, kept grand home from pre school

> again today becasue she didn't feel like driving

> across town when she didn't ahve to be at work until

> 4 pm. Wonder waht will happen whne it is real

> school, and what a great lesson to teach....

>

> Good luck to everyone, keep up the good wroka nd

> remember and this si for me too to trya nd not feel

> guilty, we did our best

>

> Elaine

>

>

>

> May there be peace on earth and may it begin with me

> and with each one of us

> Elaine

>

> ---------------------------------

> Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Elaine

Thanks ya'll have been so kind relaying your experiences and its sorta nice to

know I am not alone, yet with this terrible eillness this is not fun for any of

us.

I do realize that the bounderies are going to have to be placed and met and I am

trying, if she will just listen, but quess I am going to have to take the last

step and call probate since she has not complide to that, hopefully when she

goes to mental health Thurs we will know a little more. She is so upset that I

am going with her " after all she is 20 yrs old " like I tol her thats true BUT I

will be along to find out whats going on and why she can not qualify for

anything, not haveing a job and no school, that I believe in the real world and

she might learn to live in it.

She would either go to school, get a job or apply for something I could not and

would not support her and haven't since last week, for me thats really good, she

has not driven my car and yea she was furious but her " friend " came and got her.

I let her know I could care less. and I turn all the lights out and shut my

door at night.

Hope your family starts to get back to norm soon - take care

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/10/2005 9:47:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,

tlh930@... writes:

was told this morning by her DBT therapist that she is unmotivated

to get well and she agrees that I am enabling her that I need to let

her sink or swim on her own. This is hard for me to step back and

let her fall, and I have to keep reminding myself not to step in to

rescue her in light of the fact that she no longer has any spending

money. I am afraid that she will begin to steal from us. We already

have locked up the alcohol but she has broken the lock once trying

to get in and found the key in her dad's briefcase to get into it a

second time. These actions show me that she is capable of stealing

from us. I am trying to figure out what can I do to try and prevent

that?

I am new to posting and being a part of the BPD community, but I

feel such relief in having finally broken my isolation with others

who know what I am going through. Through my tears, I am forcing

myself to really look at my daughter's mental illness which in turn

has forced me to look at myself and how I need to now deal with her.

You are doing the right things! As far as the liquor goes, what I did, even

tho my daughter doesn't like alcohol and didn't look for it, we have a locked

shed in our yard. She never saw us put it in there and never knew where it

was, but we hid it out there under lock and key, and hid the keys. Also, my

bedroom door has a key lock, and the inside of the bathroom door to our room has

chain locks. My purse, his wallet and all keys would be in the bedroom w/us

at night and we used to lock the doors once we were inside. All cars outside

were locked up w/alarms set. Sad you have to live like this, but there is no

other way to start with. After a while, you will see that you won't have to

anymore. My daughter got the drift and felt ashamed that we couldn't trust her.

She had to earn the trust back and she did.

She does need to get a part time job. I totally stopped buying my daughter's

cigarettes.

Since she graduated, got her car, she has bought all her needs on her own.

She is allowed to eat at home, but for the most part has been eating out or

over her boyfriends. She still loves our sunday dinners and usually pops in for

that.

You will be surprised at the resources she will find when you are no longer

providing these extras for her. The food in the home is fine, and clothing

too, but once she is working, all the extras she wants instead of needing, will

have to be bought by her.

Hope this helps.

DebbieL

[Guest guest]

One thing you could do is pour all the alcohol down the toilet or otherwise

dispose of it. We do not have alcohol in our home, and when our daughter was

here, I didn't even want to have any alcohol for cooking, so she wouldn't

have that to abuse. She never did, at least here, and that may be a way to

start, unless you feel it would affect your personal life in a negative way.

I found that when L was here, I needed to not keep any items in the house

that would be in any way harmful to her. I kept very little cash in my

wallet, so it would be obvious when some was missing and there wouldn't be

much to take anyway. There still was some stealing, but not as much as it

could have been.

We also eat as a family, and I did the same as you. I put a grocery shopping

list on the refrigerator door where everyone has access to write things down

as they figure is needed. If an item is not on the list, nobody, including

my husband, has a right to complain that I miss it when I go to the grocery

store. This allows me to go when I find that it is on my way, instead of

having to make a special planning routine to get everyone's input.

Anyway, these are some ideas that have worked in our home. Let's see what

others suggest!

I hope this helps, but the most important thing with this is to stand firm.

As soon as you budge, it is all over, which is why in my case our daughter

views me as incredibly stubborn. However, she is now courteous, and we have

a cordial relationship - she is in her own place, and we are in ours, and

fortunately it is not within walking distance.

Helen

Boundaries

I told my 20 year old daughter last night that we would be following

the suggestions of her psychologist who feels she is unmotivated

because she has such a cushy home life and I would talk to her about

it in the morning since she was tipsy at the time.

So I told her this morning that she will not be receiving $250 a

month, free access to our bank accounts for her food and gas. (The

psychologist also suggested that I should not purchase her clothes.

I mentioned that to my daughter but I am ambivalent about that since

I think I should provide necessary only items since winter is

coming). Instead, I would shop once a week and she should give me

her shopping list and if she needed gas, that Dad or I would take

her car to fill it up. If she did not give me a list of foods

wanted, then she could not get my card to go to the store, she would

have to wait until I went back, but she was welcome to eat what was

currently available in the home. She asked me how she was going to

pay for her cigarettes. I told her I didn't know, to get a part time

job. Needless to say, the screaming and door slamming started, as

well as the " you know I'm working so hard to get better " routine. I

told her I didn't see any evidence of that since instead of going to

her ED support group last night because she was too tired, when she

got a phone call from one of her " under house arrest " friends, she

went over there to get a quick drink or whatever they had to use at

the time.

I was told this morning by her DBT therapist that she is unmotivated

to get well and she agrees that I am enabling her that I need to let

her sink or swim on her own. This is hard for me to step back and

let her fall, and I have to keep reminding myself not to step in to

rescue her in light of the fact that she no longer has any spending

money. I am afraid that she will begin to steal from us. We already

have locked up the alcohol but she has broken the lock once trying

to get in and found the key in her dad's briefcase to get into it a

second time. These actions show me that she is capable of stealing

from us. I am trying to figure out what can I do to try and prevent

that?

I am new to posting and being a part of the BPD community, but I

feel such relief in having finally broken my isolation with others

who know what I am going through. Through my tears, I am forcing

myself to really look at my daughter's mental illness which in turn

has forced me to look at myself and how I need to now deal with her.

People joining this list must read the guidelines and agree to them before

posting. Send questions or concerns to WelcomeToOz-owner .

" Stop Walking on Eggshells " , a primer for non-BPs, and " Hope for Parents:

Helping Your Borderline Son or Daughter Without Sacrificing Your Family Or

Yourself " can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL (). For table of

contents, go to http://www.BPDCentral.com

[Guest guest]

:

I'm sorry that you are having to go through these things with your daughter but

in the end, you WILL BE helping her. It is an awful feeling to have to lock

things up, etc. We do the same things in our home.

Password protect your computer so that she does not have access to it when you

are not home. Make sure it is a password she cannot figure out. If you have

Windows XP, there is a program on there where you can have an Administrator and

then Users. You can limit her ability to use your computer (assuming you do

online banking, shopping, etc.) through setting up " user " accounts. Set up a

" user " account for her.

Put strong key locks on your bedroom door and on the doors to rooms that you do

not want her to be in.

Change the pin numbers to credit and debit cards since she has had the use of

these cards in the past. Keep a watchful eye on your credit report if she has

access to your social security number or your husband's. She may attempt to

obtain credit cards in your name. You may want to consider getting a post

office box and having your mail re-routed that way. I would shred all credit

card offers that come in the mail and get your name removed from those lists, if

possible.

Just a few ideas that come to mind. I'm a lawyer and I guess I just think of

devious things people can do, kids or no kids. I know I could be facing this

myself in a few years; my bp sdtr is 17. I already keep my bedroom locked up and

my computer password protected.

tlh930@...> wrote:

I told my 20 year old daughter last night that we would be following

the suggestions of her psychologist who feels she is unmotivated

because she has such a cushy home life and I would talk to her about

it in the morning since she was tipsy at the time.

So I told her this morning that she will not be receiving $250 a

month, free access to our bank accounts for her food and gas. (The

psychologist also suggested that I should not purchase her clothes.

I mentioned that to my daughter but I am ambivalent about that since

I think I should provide necessary only items since winter is

coming). Instead, I would shop once a week and she should give me

her shopping list and if she needed gas, that Dad or I would take

her car to fill it up. If she did not give me a list of foods

wanted, then she could not get my card to go to the store, she would

have to wait until I went back, but she was welcome to eat what was

currently available in the home. She asked me how she was going to

pay for her cigarettes. I told her I didn't know, to get a part time

job. Needless to say, the screaming and door slamming started, as

well as the " you know I'm working so hard to get better " routine. I

told her I didn't see any evidence of that since instead of going to

her ED support group last night because she was too tired, when she

got a phone call from one of her " under house arrest " friends, she

went over there to get a quick drink or whatever they had to use at

the time.

I was told this morning by her DBT therapist that she is unmotivated

to get well and she agrees that I am enabling her that I need to let

her sink or swim on her own. This is hard for me to step back and

let her fall, and I have to keep reminding myself not to step in to

rescue her in light of the fact that she no longer has any spending

money. I am afraid that she will begin to steal from us. We already

have locked up the alcohol but she has broken the lock once trying

to get in and found the key in her dad's briefcase to get into it a

second time. These actions show me that she is capable of stealing

from us. I am trying to figure out what can I do to try and prevent

that?

I am new to posting and being a part of the BPD community, but I

feel such relief in having finally broken my isolation with others

who know what I am going through. Through my tears, I am forcing

myself to really look at my daughter's mental illness which in turn

has forced me to look at myself and how I need to now deal with her.

People joining this list must read the guidelines and agree to them before

posting. Send questions or concerns to WelcomeToOz-owner . " Stop

Walking on Eggshells " , a primer for non-BPs, and " Hope for Parents: Helping Your

Borderline Son or Daughter Without Sacrificing Your Family Or Yourself " can be

ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL (). For table of contents, go to

http://www.BPDCentral.com

[Guest guest]

Hi- Listen to DebbieL she really knows what she is talking about, I too am

having hard time with daughter, and yes they will steal from you, I have been

ruined more ways than one, change any password that you may have and lock up

everything no matter how small, you try and want so much to trust them but

beware....I learned the hard way, and still paying for it, don't take anything

for granted, Take care

[Guest guest]

I started putting my money in a lock box and hid the

key in a very remote place (in the garage). My

daughter got the message. If I found that she had

broken the lock, I seriously would have thrown her out

of the house. That is going too far. It was

difficult to accept the fact that I had to lock up my

money because I couldn't trust my own daughter. Or the

fact that money is tight, I am now a single mom with

little support from my ex. She got the message pretty

quickly and I have not had any problem since.

I enabled my daughter alot too. I struggled with

justifying things for her because of her illness. But

it was taking control of my life and my 13 year old

son's. I went through several weeks of depression and

just plain anger and frustration. I finally gave into

accepting my enabling and seeing how it was hurting

her. I self-talked a great deal about it. I realized

how much more harm I was doing for her, for me and for

my son. Since then I introduced a contract, stopped

all money to her and laid down my boundaries loud and

clear. I am fortunate in seeing a huge change in my

daughter. I recognize that not everyone is lucky

enough to see such a rapid change and that we still

have a way to go.

What I'm saying is you have to do it!!!! Face the

fear of the " tornado " and believe in the boundaries

that you put down. If she doesn't get the " picture "

that doesn't mean you have to give up. Sometimes it

takes a long time. I think it is good that her

therapists have been straight with you that you have

enabled. If you look back at many posts here that

many therapists have said that it is the parent that

has the problem, the kid is a victim. These

therapists are insightful and honest. Don't be afraid

of her.

--- tlh930@...> wrote:

> I told my 20 year old daughter last night that we

> would be following

> the suggestions of her psychologist who feels she is

> unmotivated

> because she has such a cushy home life and I would

> talk to her about

> it in the morning since she was tipsy at the time.

>

> So I told her this morning that she will not be

> receiving $250 a

> month, free access to our bank accounts for her food

> and gas. (The

> psychologist also suggested that I should not

> purchase her clothes.

> I mentioned that to my daughter but I am ambivalent

> about that since

> I think I should provide necessary only items since

> winter is

> coming). Instead, I would shop once a week and she

> should give me

> her shopping list and if she needed gas, that Dad or

> I would take

> her car to fill it up. If she did not give me a

> list of foods

> wanted, then she could not get my card to go to the

> store, she would

> have to wait until I went back, but she was welcome

> to eat what was

> currently available in the home. She asked me how

> she was going to

> pay for her cigarettes. I told her I didn't know, to

> get a part time

> job. Needless to say, the screaming and door

> slamming started, as

> well as the " you know I'm working so hard to get

> better " routine. I

> told her I didn't see any evidence of that since

> instead of going to

> her ED support group last night because she was too

> tired, when she

> got a phone call from one of her " under house

> arrest " friends, she

> went over there to get a quick drink or whatever

> they had to use at

> the time.

>

> I was told this morning by her DBT therapist that

> she is unmotivated

> to get well and she agrees that I am enabling her

> that I need to let

> her sink or swim on her own. This is hard for me to

> step back and

> let her fall, and I have to keep reminding myself

> not to step in to

> rescue her in light of the fact that she no longer

> has any spending

> money. I am afraid that she will begin to steal

> from us. We already

> have locked up the alcohol but she has broken the

> lock once trying

> to get in and found the key in her dad's briefcase

> to get into it a

> second time. These actions show me that she is

> capable of stealing

> from us. I am trying to figure out what can I do to

> try and prevent

> that?

>

> I am new to posting and being a part of the BPD

> community, but I

> feel such relief in having finally broken my

> isolation with others

> who know what I am going through. Through my tears,

> I am forcing

> myself to really look at my daughter's mental

> illness which in turn

> has forced me to look at myself and how I need to

> now deal with her.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/1/2005 6:18:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,

dheby@... writes:

Does that make sense?

Helen

Absolutely!!! Hang in there.

DebbieL

[Guest guest]

thank you for all the input. I ahve made alot of revisons based on the

collective wisdom of the group.

I now call it a statement of boundaries as she is NOT being asked to agree or

to sign so therefore not a contract.

I will simply tell her this is the boundary, there is no negogiation and I

will implement this as required.

Order of the items:

I will review again at home this evening and make it make sense.

Fear: I am afraid of ehr as she ahs been pysical in the past. I had nothing to

do with ehr for about 6 yrs except phone calls, it was becasue of grand and the

effects the behaviours were having on ehr that I moved back to calgary and

reentered her life about 18 months ago. This apst 18 months have required a

whole new set of boundaries, she didn't learn anything from it and of course I

naively beleived that she would ahve grown up and matured so I wasn't vigilant

and now I am working hard to set things straight.

I ahve reported her in the past, and I have drawn boundaries but clearly not

strong enough or severe enough....anyway life is an ongoing elarning experience

and I am only grateful that I have the support I need and the capacity to learn

so I can feel safe once again.

Elaine

May there be peace on earth and may it begin with me and with each one of us

Elaine

---------------------------------

Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos

[Guest guest]

I haven't posted in quite a while, and probably have missed a lot as our

computer gasped and wheezed and needed CPR over the holidays. Anyway ....

Elaine, my prayers go out to you. You are one strong lady and have a heart

of gold. Your daughter

*will* keep using you unless you implement & stick to your boundaries.

Another advantage of you

doing so is the lesson you're giving to your grand-daughter. It's good that

she sees that bad behavior will have consequences in life, and that you

can't expect people you love to rescue you from bad choices indefinitely.

Take care of yourself, control what you can, and find the beauty in the

little things in your world.

Don't give up hope with your daughter. Take one day at a time. I applaud

your efforts.

Joan

----Original Message Follows----

Reply-To: WTOParentsOfBPs

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: boundaries

Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:50:39 -0500 (EST)

thank you for all the input. I ahve made alot of revisons based on the

collective wisdom of the group.

I now call it a statement of boundaries as she is NOT being asked to

agree or to sign so therefore not a contract.

I will simply tell her this is the boundary, there is no negogiation and

I will implement this as required.

Order of the items:

I will review again at home this evening and make it make sense.

Fear: I am afraid of ehr as she ahs been pysical in the past. I had

nothing to do with ehr for about 6 yrs except phone calls, it was becasue of

grand and the effects the behaviours were having on ehr that I moved back to

calgary and reentered her life about 18 months ago. This apst 18 months have

required a whole new set of boundaries, she didn't learn anything from it

and of course I naively beleived that she would ahve grown up and matured so

I wasn't vigilant and now I am working hard to set things straight.

I ahve reported her in the past, and I have drawn boundaries but clearly

not strong enough or severe enough....anyway life is an ongoing elarning

experience and I am only grateful that I have the support I need and the

capacity to learn so I can feel safe once again.

Elaine

May there be peace on earth and may it begin with me and with each one of us

Elaine

---------------------------------

Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos

[Guest guest]

Elaine,I responded before realizing that it was your contract. I have been out

of touch with the group for several weeks because of the holidays.

I am proud of you establishing those boundaries again for yourself. Bring

peace to your life.

A Friend helpbpdmom@...> wrote: thank you for all the input. I

ahve made alot of revisons based on the collective wisdom of the group.

I now call it a statement of boundaries as she is NOT being asked to agree

or to sign so therefore not a contract.

I will simply tell her this is the boundary, there is no negogiation and I

will implement this as required.

Order of the items:

I will review again at home this evening and make it make sense.

Fear: I am afraid of ehr as she ahs been pysical in the past. I had nothing

to do with ehr for about 6 yrs except phone calls, it was becasue of grand and

the effects the behaviours were having on ehr that I moved back to calgary and

reentered her life about 18 months ago. This apst 18 months have required a

whole new set of boundaries, she didn't learn anything from it and of course I

naively beleived that she would ahve grown up and matured so I wasn't vigilant

and now I am working hard to set things straight.

I ahve reported her in the past, and I have drawn boundaries but clearly

not strong enough or severe enough....anyway life is an ongoing elarning

experience and I am only grateful that I have the support I need and the

capacity to learn so I can feel safe once again.

Elaine

May there be peace on earth and may it begin with me and with each one of us

Elaine

---------------------------------

Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos