Re: Hey Jean! We love you!/Deborah

May 1, 2006

Dear Deborah,

Thank you for your vote of confidence. And for saying " you all love me " .

It is so easy to feel unloved with these girls in our lives.

I didn't have the stomach to write more before, but K is also talking

suicide---says she has nothing to live for and cannot go on without Will. That

she

has nothing to live for---4 kids, yet " nothing " to live for. I asked her if

she wanted me to take her to our local mental health hospital, she said no.

I asked her is she wanted me to call a counselor I used to see, she said no.

I asked her if she wanted to talk to a Chrisitian counselor I used to talk

to, she said no. I asked her what she wanted me to do and she said she

wanted me or someone to make Will come back------she wants him drugs and all.

I

told her no one, him included, finds a woman begging and crying pathetically

over a guy, an attractive thing. I told her to stop calling him and his

mother crying about it----it makes her look pathetic. And even a convict

doesn't

want someone like that. I told her she needs to get a grip thru counseling

or her own fortitude. And that is when all the insults and assaults on me as

a person started. So, I told her since whatever I said was useless to her, I

had better things to do today. And if she really felt she was going to kill

herself then she might remember that Will or his mother would be raising her

two babies. I have my grandsons tonight in case she gets out of control.

Problem with her is that I never know when she is serious or just trying to

get attention and pity. I do, however, keep in mind that poor woman in Tx who

killed all her children from post partum depression.

My son asked me why I didn't take Emerson home too and to tell you the

truth, I just cannot take on the 14mo old. I pray that she and the newborn

will

be safe, but I have my limits. And as far as my daughter is concerned, I am

done. My feelings about her are, God will have to save her, because I am of

no use to her emotionally. She pretty much told me that. I ended up hanging

up on her at one point today saying to her, I am tired of her and her

problems, that I am a person too and she simply sees me as someone to be used

and

thrown away depending on her needs. I realize she does not mind having the

men in her life use her, so maybe she doesn't consider using and being used a

problem. But I am have my dignity and I am seeing her more as a stranger and

less as my flesh and blood. And I just don't like her.

She has been this miserable person so long, I begin to think the happy,

beautiful, confident young girl she used to be is dead anyway. This creature

now

inhabits her body. She has been this way for 15 years now. It started when

she was 18 and she will be 33 next week. I cannot even approach the subject

with her that she may have a personality disorder. When I begin to think

she may not be BP, I then get hit with the monster again and know that she is

BP or somethiing worse. Her sick need for a man--any man is certainly

symptomatic of some illness. She says she does not want to end up alone like

me

without a guy. Believe me, living my life without a man is far better than

selling my sould to have any jerk off the street feeding me a line so he can

use

me. But she doesn't see it that way.

I need to get out of her life for both our sakes. I need to get away from

her. My son says it depresses him that I have been living her life for so

long, trying to save her from herself and totally losing me. I just wish I had

the guts to leave my grandsons, because I would be so far away from her. If

my son gets a job in Wash DC he wants me to relocate there as well. I used

to live there years ago and I would sp like to do it.

Jean

May 1, 2006

Deborah

Yes my son HAD drawn the line as far as the 14 mo old was concerned. But

the more I have been talking about her, the more he thinks he would easily

become attached if he allowed himself to be. He can be a softy too. Problem

with

these two little ones is that if anything ever happened to K, the father (

loser though he may be) would have custody rights. And I don't intend to

spend my last dime trying to convince a court he is unfit due to his drug use,

so

best to not get attached to these two. WWIth my grandsons, K never even put

their father's name on the birth certificate and he would owe a ton of back

child support so even if he surfaced, he would probaly not pursue them. Plus

I hear, he has at least another son and possibly more. So God willing, the

boys would be with me and/or my son. My son has said that if anything

happened to my daughter and I took the boys, he would be my back up down the

road

if I was sick or unable to handle them.

Jean

May 1, 2006

Jean,

You have my prayers. That's about all I can offer

here.

Moving to D.C. or making a nice long trip there to be

with your son might not be a bad idea. I think you

were wise to decide take the boys only right now since

they are all you can handle. (And I thought your son

drew the line there, too?!) It makes perfect sense.

It also sends the message to your daughter that you

have reached the end of your rope. Got to get some

distance. We'll keep praying, and you keep your

distance.

Another hug,

Deborah

--- cascorsam@... wrote:

> Dear Deborah,

>

> Thank you for your vote of confidence. And for

> saying " you all love me " .

> It is so easy to feel unloved with these girls in

> our lives.

>

> I didn't have the stomach to write more before, but

> K is also talking

> suicide---says she has nothing to live for and

> cannot go on without Will. That she

> has nothing to live for---4 kids, yet " nothing " to

> live for. I asked her if

> she wanted me to take her to our local mental health

> hospital, she said no.

> I asked her is she wanted me to call a counselor I

> used to see, she said no.

> I asked her if she wanted to talk to a Chrisitian

> counselor I used to talk

> to, she said no. I asked her what she wanted me to

> do and she said she

> wanted me or someone to make Will come

> back------she wants him drugs and all. I

> told her no one, him included, finds a woman

> begging and crying pathetically

> over a guy, an attractive thing. I told her to

> stop calling him and his

> mother crying about it----it makes her look

> pathetic. And even a convict doesn't

> want someone like that. I told her she needs to

> get a grip thru counseling

> or her own fortitude. And that is when all the

> insults and assaults on me as

> a person started. So, I told her since whatever I

> said was useless to her, I

> had better things to do today. And if she really

> felt she was going to kill

> herself then she might remember that Will or his

> mother would be raising her

> two babies. I have my grandsons tonight in case

> she gets out of control.

> Problem with her is that I never know when she is

> serious or just trying to

> get attention and pity. I do, however, keep in

> mind that poor woman in Tx who

> killed all her children from post partum depression.

>

> My son asked me why I didn't take Emerson home too

> and to tell you the

> truth, I just cannot take on the 14mo old. I pray

> that she and the newborn will

> be safe, but I have my limits. And as far as my

> daughter is concerned, I am

> done. My feelings about her are, God will have to

> save her, because I am of

> no use to her emotionally. She pretty much told me

> that. I ended up hanging

> up on her at one point today saying to her, I am

> tired of her and her

> problems, that I am a person too and she simply sees

> me as someone to be used and

> thrown away depending on her needs. I realize she

> does not mind having the

> men in her life use her, so maybe she doesn't

> consider using and being used a

> problem. But I am have my dignity and I am seeing

> her more as a stranger and

> less as my flesh and blood. And I just don't like

> her.

>

> She has been this miserable person so long, I begin

> to think the happy,

> beautiful, confident young girl she used to be is

> dead anyway. This creature now

> inhabits her body. She has been this way for 15

> years now. It started when

> she was 18 and she will be 33 next week. I cannot

> even approach the subject

> with her that she may have a personality disorder.

> When I begin to think

> she may not be BP, I then get hit with the monster

> again and know that she is

> BP or somethiing worse. Her sick need for a

> man--any man is certainly

> symptomatic of some illness. She says she does not

> want to end up alone like me

> without a guy. Believe me, living my life without

> a man is far better than

> selling my sould to have any jerk off the street

> feeding me a line so he can use

> me. But she doesn't see it that way.

>

> I need to get out of her life for both our sakes. I

> need to get away from

> her. My son says it depresses him that I have been

> living her life for so

> long, trying to save her from herself and totally

> losing me. I just wish I had

> the guts to leave my grandsons, because I would be

> so far away from her. If

> my son gets a job in Wash DC he wants me to

> relocate there as well. I used

> to live there years ago and I would sp like to do

> it.

>

> Jean

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

__________________________________________________

May 1, 2006

Wow Jean -- you're sure going through a-n-o-t-h-e-r- tough time with K. I

can't fully understand how you feel because I don't have grandchildren yet,

but it seems to me that's what's keeping you

held hostage to her tantrums.

I think it hurts you even more, because you " dared " to let your guard down a

little and get your hopes up about the future.

I see that K uses you as her verbal punching bag when she's feeling

rejected. And her threats of suicide are just enough you make you hesitate

about setting a tough boundary.

I'm certainly no expert, but remember a couple of things. First off, when

she's like this she ain't gonna listen to ANY advice you give her. So save

your breath and don't bother. That includes the threats of suicide. If

you're really concerned, you could call the authorities, and let them you

you're worried about her and the two little ones left with her. She needs

to learn that you can't threaten those who love you with suicide. My son

learned that when he acted out and cut himself, etc., we would call the

police, and he'd be taken to the hospital. He didn't like that! That

seemed to provide a catalyst for trying to control his emotions and deal

with his bad feelings in another way.

Secondly, I agree that you need to distance yourself. I can just see your

love of the boys keeping you on this merry-go-round for years. Then one day

they'll be 20+ and living their own lives, and you'll realize you never had

the chance to live as you wanted to. And K knows that!!

Remember - you warned K about Will - she didn't listen - and now YOU'RE the

one facing the fallout.

Not fair. She's 33 and HAS to learn that HER choices bring about HER

consequences. Part of growing up is learning how to take suggestions &

warnings about possible problems from those who know a thing or two.

I think she wanted more than anything to prove you wrong about Will - and

now it's a double whammy...he's gone and YOU were right! If she contacts

you, don't argue with her - don't debate - don't offer suggestions. Just

tell her you're sorry she's facing this situation, and tell her she's loved

by you and her children. Tell her you have confidence in her that she'll

make the right decisions for both her and her kids .. remind her that they

need her.

Jean I hope you can find a way to disengage with K for a while. Even if it

means not seeing your grandsons for a bit, maybe it's best for all of you.

Hugs and prayers to you.

Joan (in Canada)

----Original Message Follows----

From: cascorsam@...

Reply-To: WTOParentsOfBPs

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: Re: Hey Jean! We love you!/Deborah

Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 22:11:18 EDT

Dear Deborah,

Thank you for your vote of confidence. And for saying " you all love me " .

It is so easy to feel unloved with these girls in our lives.

I didn't have the stomach to write more before, but K is also talking

suicide---says she has nothing to live for and cannot go on without Will.

That she

has nothing to live for---4 kids, yet " nothing " to live for. I asked her

if

she wanted me to take her to our local mental health hospital, she said no.

I asked her is she wanted me to call a counselor I used to see, she said

no.

I asked her if she wanted to talk to a Chrisitian counselor I used to

talk

to, she said no. I asked her what she wanted me to do and she said she

wanted me or someone to make Will come back------she wants him drugs and

all. I

told her no one, him included, finds a woman begging and crying

pathetically

over a guy, an attractive thing. I told her to stop calling him and his

mother crying about it----it makes her look pathetic. And even a convict

doesn't

want someone like that. I told her she needs to get a grip thru counseling

or her own fortitude. And that is when all the insults and assaults on me

as

a person started. So, I told her since whatever I said was useless to her,

I

had better things to do today. And if she really felt she was going to

kill

herself then she might remember that Will or his mother would be raising

her

two babies. I have my grandsons tonight in case she gets out of control.

Problem with her is that I never know when she is serious or just trying to

get attention and pity. I do, however, keep in mind that poor woman in Tx

who

killed all her children from post partum depression.

My son asked me why I didn't take Emerson home too and to tell you the

truth, I just cannot take on the 14mo old. I pray that she and the newborn

will

be safe, but I have my limits. And as far as my daughter is concerned, I

am

done. My feelings about her are, God will have to save her, because I am

of

no use to her emotionally. She pretty much told me that. I ended up

hanging

up on her at one point today saying to her, I am tired of her and her

problems, that I am a person too and she simply sees me as someone to be

used and

thrown away depending on her needs. I realize she does not mind having the

men in her life use her, so maybe she doesn't consider using and being used

a

problem. But I am have my dignity and I am seeing her more as a stranger

and

less as my flesh and blood. And I just don't like her.

She has been this miserable person so long, I begin to think the happy,

beautiful, confident young girl she used to be is dead anyway. This

creature now

inhabits her body. She has been this way for 15 years now. It started

when

she was 18 and she will be 33 next week. I cannot even approach the

subject

with her that she may have a personality disorder. When I begin to think

she may not be BP, I then get hit with the monster again and know that she

is

BP or somethiing worse. Her sick need for a man--any man is certainly

symptomatic of some illness. She says she does not want to end up alone

like me

without a guy. Believe me, living my life without a man is far better than

selling my sould to have any jerk off the street feeding me a line so he

can use

me. But she doesn't see it that way.

I need to get out of her life for both our sakes. I need to get away from

her. My son says it depresses him that I have been living her life for so

long, trying to save her from herself and totally losing me. I just wish I

had

the guts to leave my grandsons, because I would be so far away from her.

If

my son gets a job in Wash DC he wants me to relocate there as well. I used

to live there years ago and I would sp like to do it.

Jean

May 2, 2006

In a message dated 5/1/2006 10:43:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,

cascorsam@... writes:

My son has said that if anything

happened to my daughter and I took the boys, he would be my back up down

the road

if I was sick or unable to handle them.

Jean

You have a great son, Jean, you should be proud!

Hang in there, all will be fine in the end. Keeping you all in my thoughts

and prayers.

DebbieL

May 2, 2006

Jean we all do love you! You must be exhausted, you have been through alot

emotionally. I guess it was inevitable that was going to dump on you.

While you have been able to not get sucked into it, your exhaustion compounded

with her desparation made it pretty ugly. You need to stay away for a little

while and get your thoughts together. I know that's hard when she is such a

mess, but if she needs you I do believe she'll let you know. The post partum

depression is scary, try and remember that is kicking in, as I told you I had

it seriously enough to have psychotic episodes. Not that it helps, she's

dumping on you because she knows you are there and always have been. I don't

want to sound mushy because I know how angry you are, you need time away to get

it in perspective. Make any sense? She has said things that made your blood

run cold, did she do it to hurt you or did she express her fear of

abandonment. My guess she didn't do it to hurt

you. PLEASE GET SOME REST.

Love

cascorsam@... wrote: Deborah

Yes my son HAD drawn the line as far as the 14 mo old was concerned. But

the more I have been talking about her, the more he thinks he would easily

become attached if he allowed himself to be. He can be a softy too. Problem

with

these two little ones is that if anything ever happened to K, the father (

loser though he may be) would have custody rights. And I don't intend to

spend my last dime trying to convince a court he is unfit due to his drug

use, so

best to not get attached to these two. WWIth my grandsons, K never even put

their father's name on the birth certificate and he would owe a ton of back

child support so even if he surfaced, he would probaly not pursue them. Plus

I hear, he has at least another son and possibly more. So God willing, the

boys would be with me and/or my son. My son has said that if anything

happened to my daughter and I took the boys, he would be my back up down the

road

if I was sick or unable to handle them.

Jean

May 2, 2006

Good advice to Jean, Joan.

Jean, stay firm to your convictions and boundaries. Be in control of you.

It's always so hard with kids involved. Stay strong and loving for them.

But I agree with Joan -- it's ok to tell she is loved, reassure her, and

that you trust she'll do the right thing.

Carol

--------- Re: Hey Jean! We love you!/Deborah

> Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 22:11:18 EDT

>

> Dear Deborah,

>

> Thank you for your vote of confidence. And for saying " you all love me " .

> It is so easy to feel unloved with these girls in our lives.

>

> I didn't have the stomach to write more before, but K is also talking

> suicide---says she has nothing to live for and cannot go on without Will.

> That she

> has nothing to live for---4 kids, yet " nothing " to live for. I asked her

> if

> she wanted me to take her to our local mental health hospital, she said no.

> I asked her is she wanted me to call a counselor I used to see, she said

> no.

> I asked her if she wanted to talk to a Chrisitian counselor I used to

> talk

> to, she said no. I asked her what she wanted me to do and she said she

> wanted me or someone to make Will come back------she wants him drugs and

> all. I

> told her no one, him included, finds a woman begging and crying

> pathetically

> over a guy, an attractive thing. I told her to stop calling him and his

> mother crying about it----it makes her look pathetic. And even a convict

> doesn't

> want someone like that. I told her she needs to get a grip thru counseling

> or her own fortitude. And that is when all the insults and assaults on me

> as

> a person started. So, I told her since whatever I said was useless to her,

> I

> had better things to do today. And if she really felt she was going to

> kill

> herself then she might remember that Will or his mother would be raising

> her

> two babies. I have my grandsons tonight in case she gets out of control.

> Problem with her is that I never know when she is serious or just trying to

> get attention and pity. I do, however, keep in mind that poor woman in Tx

> who

> killed all her children from post partum depression.

>

> My son asked me why I didn't take Emerson home too and to tell you the

> truth, I just cannot take on the 14mo old. I pray that she and the newborn

> will

> be safe, but I have my limits. And as far as my daughter is concerned, I

> am

> done. My feelings about her are, God will have to save her, because I am

> of

> no use to her emotionally. She pretty much told me that. I ended up

> hanging

> up on her at one point today saying to her, I am tired of her and her

> problems, that I am a person too and she simply sees me as someone to be

> used and

> thrown away depending on her needs. I realize she does not mind having the

> men in her life use her, so maybe she doesn't consider using and being used

> a

> problem. But I am have my dignity and I am seeing her more as a stranger

> and

> less as my flesh and blood. And I just don't like her.

>

> She has been this miserable person so long, I begin to think the happy,

> beautiful, confident young girl she used to be is dead anyway. This

> creature now

> inhabits her body. She has been this way for 15 years now. It started

> when

> she was 18 and she will be 33 next week. I cannot even approach the

> subject

> with her that she may have a personality disorder. When I begin to think

> she may not be BP, I then get hit with the monster again and know that she

> is

> BP or somethiing worse. Her sick need for a man--any man is certainly

> symptomatic of some illness. She says she does not want to end up alone

> like me

> without a guy. Believe me, living my life without a man is far better than

> selling my sould to have any jerk off the street feeding me a line so he

> can use

> me. But she doesn't see it that way.

>

> I need to get out of her life for both our sakes. I need to get away from

> her. My son says it depresses him that I have been living her life for so

> long, trying to save her from herself and totally losing me. I just wish I

> had

> the guts to leave my grandsons, because I would be so far away from her.

> If

> my son gets a job in Wash DC he wants me to relocate there as well. I used

> to live there years ago and I would sp like to do it.

>

> Jean

>

May 2, 2006

Jean,

It is o.k. to tell that you need a break from listening to her blame

you. " I know it's a rough time for you now, and I'm more than happy to help out

with the kids, but I'm not willing to take verbal abuse or criticism from you. "

I might try to reword things positively. Even if my daughter isn't feeling

positive, she tries that now.

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

> Jean we all do love you! You must be exhausted, you have been through alot

> emotionally. I guess it was inevitable that was going to dump on you.

> While you have been able to not get sucked into it, your exhaustion compounded

> with her desparation made it pretty ugly. You need to stay away for a little

> while and get your thoughts together. I know that's hard when she is such a

> mess, but if she needs you I do believe she'll let you know. The post partum

> depression is scary, try and remember that is kicking in, as I told you I had

> it seriously enough to have psychotic episodes. Not that it helps, she's

> dumping on you because she knows you are there and always have been. I don't

> want to sound mushy because I know how angry you are, you need time away to

get

> it in perspective. Make any sense? She has said things that made your blood

> run cold, did she do it to hurt you or did she express her fear of

> abandonment. My guess she didn't do it to hurt

> you. PLEASE GET SOME REST.

> Love

>

> cascorsam@... wrote: Deborah

>

> Yes my son HAD drawn the line as far as the 14 mo old was concerned. But

> the more I have been talking about her, the more he thinks he would easily

> become attached if he allowed himself to be. He can be a softy too. Problem

> with

> these two little ones is that if anything ever happened to K, the father (

> loser though he may be) would have custody rights. And I don't intend to

> spend my last dime trying to convince a court he is unfit due to his drug

> use, so

> best to not get attached to these two. WWIth my grandsons, K never even put

> their father's name on the birth certificate and he would owe a ton of back

> child support so even if he surfaced, he would probaly not pursue them. Plus

> I hear, he has at least another son and possibly more. So God willing, the

> boys would be with me and/or my son. My son has said that if anything

> happened to my daughter and I took the boys, he would be my back up down the

> road

> if I was sick or unable to handle them.

>

> Jean

>

May 2, 2006

Wow Carol, you are on a roll with the advice. Jean listen to her!

bosoxfan199@... wrote:

Jean,

It is o.k. to tell that you need a break from listening to her blame

you. " I know it's a rough time for you now, and I'm more than happy to help out

with the kids, but I'm not willing to take verbal abuse or criticism from you. "

I might try to reword things positively. Even if my daughter isn't feeling

positive, she tries that now.

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

From: Jamal Jilao