Re: I need you all........basketcase mother........

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/22/2006 11:07:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

connect4love@... writes:

Thanks for reading and all support...........

,

Isn't there a crisis hotline you can call? Forget the police, they

apparently aren't doing very well with helping you. Call the hotline, they will

call

someone, tell them you are getting nowhere with the police.

If it were me, I'd be calling 911 at the drop of a hat as much as I could,

just so they would get tired of hearing from me and actually do something. I

feel for you so much, I know how alone you must feel, wish I were there to help

you. There has got be someone, maybe your state's mental health bureau, ask

them what the heck you should do. She belongs inpatient. I used to grab my

daughter, put her in the car and take her to the ER, then crisis intervention

would come in an evalute her. But, I never had the rage problem with my

daughter that you have. I wish I could tell you more......

Hugs,

DebbieL

[Guest guest]

This may not be what most people on this site would recommend, but you get

to have a decent life too, and your daughter needs to go somewhere else and

get help. She sounds dangerous and she is ruining your life. Whteher it is

her fault or the illnesses fault it does not matter. She is dangerous.

Residential Care.

" I " need you all........basketcase mother........

Hello everyone,

I just haven't been able to deal with this illness very well. Bpdd keeps

having the violent rages. Just got home last Saturday and was starting to

pack on Sunday but settled down after I left. Wednesday at 7:45pm, she was

angry (again) about the boundary I set with no driving until I see that

she's not using any drugs. Believes I should trust her first as I should be

able to tell that she isn't using now. I was going to a support group

meeting and she stood behind the car so I couldn't leave since she couldn't

drive and go anywhere. She then came up to the drivers side of the car and

starting hitting the window extremely hard with her fist. I called 911 and

she kept doing it while she was verbally abusing me and then kicked the car

and went into the house so I took off and continued talking to the police.

They came and actually told me just to stay away awhile until she calms down

that if they talked to her it would just be putting fuel on the fire! Lousy

officer!! I now know not to stay on the phone with 911 as they want me too

so I can call CMH so they can talk to the officers when they come about

bringing her in to them for a face to face. This morning, Thursday, 6/22,

she once again asked to drive my car. She just doesn't get it or want too! I

once again repeated what I said on Wednesday but then told her that I'd

drive her to see her friend in the hospital. She started destroying the

house throwing things, threw my new plant from a friend with a beautiful

ceramic pot across the room and broke it and dirt went everywhere. She also

threw things at a mirror and shattered it and then picked up pieces of the

shattered glass and threw it all over the house. I called 911 but she ran

out in her thong with a pair of pants in her hand. Before she went out of

the house she told me that I was going to be sorry when she kills herself

and I don't have a daughter and also that she was going to slash my tires

and took 2 steak

knives out of the drawer and also that this time she won't come back and

they won't be able to find her. So..........my heart is just hurting so

badly.I love my daughter so much and hate this illness!! I know I'm suppose

to keep thinking about taking care of myself but she is just a child with an

awful mental illness. It is so overwhelming and I'm so afraid for her and

her inability to make good decisions. The detective told me that one of the

places she stayed at was so nasty and he has no doubt that something was

going on there. Said there was even fresh blood on the door and someone

claimed they had done it but the places were already scabbed over so they

knew he couldn't have. How? How do you deal with this? Someone, please tell

me how??? I'm so afraid...I can't bare the thought of something bad

happening to her. This stinkin state has no laws to help insure help for

them. It's crazy! It's such a battle! Maybe I should dwell on trying to make

a change here.

Write the newspaper and governor/senators etc!

They will do nothing to help a parent get help for their mentally sick

child! Though my bpdd believes it's me and that I'm a lousy parent, I love

her with all my heart and know she needs help and so afraid of the crazy

things she does to hurt herself.

Thanks for reading and all support...........

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Football '06 - Go with the leader. Start your league

today!

[Guest guest]

My heart goes out to you. But, I agree with bauknight - SHe is dangerous to

herself and to you. It is time to have her committed into a psych unit and then

to residential care. You do not have to put up with this - regardless of your

daughter's age. You are not responsible for this . . . You need to protect

yourself and your home. I know it is hard to take these steps, and I know this

because I have done it and I would do it again.

" I " need you all........basketca se mother...... ..

Hello everyone,

I just haven't been able to deal with this illness very well. Bpdd keeps

having the violent rages. Just got home last Saturday and was starting to

pack on Sunday but settled down after I left. Wednesday at 7:45pm, she was

angry (again) about the boundary I set with no driving until I see that

she's not using any drugs. Believes I should trust her first as I should be

able to tell that she isn't using now. I was going to a support group

meeting and she stood behind the car so I couldn't leave since she couldn't

drive and go anywhere. She then came up to the drivers side of the car and

starting hitting the window extremely hard with her fist. I called 911 and

she kept doing it while she was verbally abusing me and then kicked the car

and went into the house so I took off and continued talking to the police.

They came and actually told me just to stay away awhile until she calms down

that if they talked to her it would just be putting fuel on the fire! Lousy

officer!! I now know not to stay on the phone with 911 as they want me too

so I can call CMH so they can talk to the officers when they come about

bringing her in to them for a face to face. This morning, Thursday, 6/22,

she once again asked to drive my car. She just doesn't get it or want too! I

once again repeated what I said on Wednesday but then told her that I'd

drive her to see her friend in the hospital. She started destroying the

house throwing things, threw my new plant from a friend with a beautiful

ceramic pot across the room and broke it and dirt went everywhere. She also

threw things at a mirror and shattered it and then picked up pieces of the

shattered glass and threw it all over the house. I called 911 but she ran

out in her thong with a pair of pants in her hand. Before she went out of

the house she told me that I was going to be sorry when she kills herself

and I don't have a daughter and also that she was going to slash my tires

and took 2 steak

knives out of the drawer and also that this time she won't come back and

they won't be able to find her. So.......... my heart is just hurting so

badly.I love my daughter so much and hate this illness!! I know I'm suppose

to keep thinking about taking care of myself but she is just a child with an

awful mental illness. It is so overwhelming and I'm so afraid for her and

her inability to make good decisions. The detective told me that one of the

places she stayed at was so nasty and he has no doubt that something was

going on there. Said there was even fresh blood on the door and someone

claimed they had done it but the places were already scabbed over so they

knew he couldn't have. How? How do you deal with this? Someone, please tell

me how??? I'm so afraid...I can't bare the thought of something bad

happening to her. This stinkin state has no laws to help insure help for

them. It's crazy! It's such a battle! Maybe I should dwell on trying to make

a change here.

Write the newspaper and governor/senators etc!

They will do nothing to help a parent get help for their mentally sick

child! Though my bpdd believes it's me and that I'm a lousy parent, I love

her with all my heart and know she needs help and so afraid of the crazy

things she does to hurt herself.

Thanks for reading and all support..... ......

------------ --------- --------- ---

Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Football '06 - Go with the leader. Start your league

today!

[Guest guest]

I agree with kelly. There is a line between caring and greiving for your

daughter and abuse. Right now she is abusing you. I love my daughter with all

my heart but I won't take that rage anymore and after I really proved that to

her she stopped. They do have some control over it, it's how far you let her

take it. If you put your car in reverse and started to move, she'd move. You

have to trust that it's a ploy just like the I'm going to kill myself if you

don't..... I've been there done that too... and she never did it. As a matter

of fact she hasn't said that in a long time.

Now that is gone, what is really making me sad is that I have no life.

I let her life consume mine. I can remedy this but I think it has been a

major revelation to me that I let this situation consume me for a long time.

While I know I have done my best and things seem to be looking up, a part of me

would like to kick myself for neglecting me! Maybe it was easier to care for

her instead of myself because that can be hard. It really can be easier

living someone else's life. Think about it. What would you like to do for

yourself?

bauknight bauknight@...> wrote:

This may not be what most people on this site would recommend, but you get

to have a decent life too, and your daughter needs to go somewhere else and

get help. She sounds dangerous and she is ruining your life. Whteher it is

her fault or the illnesses fault it does not matter. She is dangerous.

Residential Care.

" I " need you all........basketcase mother........

Hello everyone,

I just haven't been able to deal with this illness very well. Bpdd keeps

having the violent rages. Just got home last Saturday and was starting to

pack on Sunday but settled down after I left. Wednesday at 7:45pm, she was

angry (again) about the boundary I set with no driving until I see that

she's not using any drugs. Believes I should trust her first as I should be

able to tell that she isn't using now. I was going to a support group

meeting and she stood behind the car so I couldn't leave since she couldn't

drive and go anywhere. She then came up to the drivers side of the car and

starting hitting the window extremely hard with her fist. I called 911 and

she kept doing it while she was verbally abusing me and then kicked the car

and went into the house so I took off and continued talking to the police.

They came and actually told me just to stay away awhile until she calms down

that if they talked to her it would just be putting fuel on the fire! Lousy

officer!! I now know not to stay on the phone with 911 as they want me too

so I can call CMH so they can talk to the officers when they come about

bringing her in to them for a face to face. This morning, Thursday, 6/22,

she once again asked to drive my car. She just doesn't get it or want too! I

once again repeated what I said on Wednesday but then told her that I'd

drive her to see her friend in the hospital. She started destroying the

house throwing things, threw my new plant from a friend with a beautiful

ceramic pot across the room and broke it and dirt went everywhere. She also

threw things at a mirror and shattered it and then picked up pieces of the

shattered glass and threw it all over the house. I called 911 but she ran

out in her thong with a pair of pants in her hand. Before she went out of

the house she told me that I was going to be sorry when she kills herself

and I don't have a daughter and also that she was going to slash my tires

and took 2 steak

knives out of the drawer and also that this time she won't come back and

they won't be able to find her. So..........my heart is just hurting so

badly.I love my daughter so much and hate this illness!! I know I'm suppose

to keep thinking about taking care of myself but she is just a child with an

awful mental illness. It is so overwhelming and I'm so afraid for her and

her inability to make good decisions. The detective told me that one of the

places she stayed at was so nasty and he has no doubt that something was

going on there. Said there was even fresh blood on the door and someone

claimed they had done it but the places were already scabbed over so they

knew he couldn't have. How? How do you deal with this? Someone, please tell

me how??? I'm so afraid...I can't bare the thought of something bad

happening to her. This stinkin state has no laws to help insure help for

them. It's crazy! It's such a battle! Maybe I should dwell on trying to make

a change here.

Write the newspaper and governor/senators etc!

They will do nothing to help a parent get help for their mentally sick

child! Though my bpdd believes it's me and that I'm a lousy parent, I love

her with all my heart and know she needs help and so afraid of the crazy

things she does to hurt herself.

Thanks for reading and all support...........

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Football '06 - Go with the leader. Start your league

today!

[Guest guest]

Jamal Jilao somalitamale@...> wrote:

" Maybe it was easier to care for her instead of myself because that can be hard.

It really can be easier living someone else's life. Think about it. What would

you like to do for yourself? "

,

wiser words were never spoken. Caring for others allows us to not face

ourselves.

Milena

I agree with kelly. There is a line between

caring and greiving for your daughter and abuse. Right now she is abusing you.

I love my daughter with all my heart but I won't take that rage anymore and

after I really proved that to her she stopped. They do have some control over

it, it's how far you let her take it. If you put your car in reverse and

started to move, she'd move. You have to trust that it's a ploy just like the

I'm going to kill myself if you don't..... I've been there done that too...

and she never did it. As a matter of fact she hasn't said that in a long time.

Now that is gone, what is really making me sad is that I have no life.

I let her life consume mine. I can remedy this but I think it has been a

major revelation to me that I let this situation consume me for a long time.

While I know I have done my best and things seem to be looking up, a part of me

would like to kick myself for neglecting me! Maybe it was easier to care for

her instead of myself because that can be hard. It really can be easier

living someone else's life. Think about it. What would you like to do for

yourself?

bauknight bauknight@...> wrote:

This may not be what most people on this site would recommend, but you get

to have a decent life too, and your daughter needs to go somewhere else and

get help. She sounds dangerous and she is ruining your life. Whteher it is

her fault or the illnesses fault it does not matter. She is dangerous.

Residential Care.

" I " need you all........basketcase mother........

Hello everyone,

I just haven't been able to deal with this illness very well. Bpdd keeps

having the violent rages. Just got home last Saturday and was starting to

pack on Sunday but settled down after I left. Wednesday at 7:45pm, she was

angry (again) about the boundary I set with no driving until I see that

she's not using any drugs. Believes I should trust her first as I should be

able to tell that she isn't using now. I was going to a support group

meeting and she stood behind the car so I couldn't leave since she couldn't

drive and go anywhere. She then came up to the drivers side of the car and

starting hitting the window extremely hard with her fist. I called 911 and

she kept doing it while she was verbally abusing me and then kicked the car

and went into the house so I took off and continued talking to the police.

They came and actually told me just to stay away awhile until she calms down

that if they talked to her it would just be putting fuel on the fire! Lousy

officer!! I now know not to stay on the phone with 911 as they want me too

so I can call CMH so they can talk to the officers when they come about

bringing her in to them for a face to face. This morning, Thursday, 6/22,

she once again asked to drive my car. She just doesn't get it or want too! I

once again repeated what I said on Wednesday but then told her that I'd

drive her to see her friend in the hospital. She started destroying the

house throwing things, threw my new plant from a friend with a beautiful

ceramic pot across the room and broke it and dirt went everywhere. She also

threw things at a mirror and shattered it and then picked up pieces of the

shattered glass and threw it all over the house. I called 911 but she ran

out in her thong with a pair of pants in her hand. Before she went out of

the house she told me that I was going to be sorry when she kills herself

and I don't have a daughter and also that she was going to slash my tires

and took 2 steak

knives out of the drawer and also that this time she won't come back and

they won't be able to find her. So..........my heart is just hurting so

badly.I love my daughter so much and hate this illness!! I know I'm suppose

to keep thinking about taking care of myself but she is just a child with an

awful mental illness. It is so overwhelming and I'm so afraid for her and

her inability to make good decisions. The detective told me that one of the

places she stayed at was so nasty and he has no doubt that something was

going on there. Said there was even fresh blood on the door and someone

claimed they had done it but the places were already scabbed over so they

knew he couldn't have. How? How do you deal with this? Someone, please tell

me how??? I'm so afraid...I can't bare the thought of something bad

happening to her. This stinkin state has no laws to help insure help for

them. It's crazy! It's such a battle! Maybe I should dwell on trying to make

a change here.

Write the newspaper and governor/senators etc!

They will do nothing to help a parent get help for their mentally sick

child! Though my bpdd believes it's me and that I'm a lousy parent, I love

her with all my heart and know she needs help and so afraid of the crazy

things she does to hurt herself.

Thanks for reading and all support...........

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Football '06 - Go with the leader. Start your league

today!

[Guest guest]

As we used to say in the 60s and 70s, " Wow, that is

deep. " And it really is. And so true. All of it.

My daughter said once, " You know, I think we know more

about psychological problems than most people, and

maybe some doctors, too. " What you wrote here,

, is definitely in that category.

Wow!

Now get out and get you A LIFE!!

Hugs and kisses, Deborah

> Now that is gone, what is really making me

> sad is that I have no life. I let her life

> consume mine. I can remedy this but I think it has

> been a major revelation to me that I let this

> situation consume me for a long time. While I know

> I have done my best and things seem to be looking

> up, a part of me would like to kick myself for

> neglecting me! Maybe it was easier to care for her

> instead of myself because that can be hard. It

> really can be easier living someone else's life.

> Think about it. What would you like to do for

> yourself?

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Maybe the newspapers, governor and senators are not so sure these kids

aren't just spoiled, manipulating brats. The more I read and the more I have

taken back some control of my own life, the more I think that is this really a

disease with many of them?? Some of these girls are indeed sick, and the

medications they have been put on have helped. But listening to you describe

your

daughter's behavior, reminds me so much of my daughter's behavior while in

college.

The manipulating you, the threats of self destruction, and breaking your

things because SHE can't get her own way or what SHE wants from you. HOW DARE

SHE, the little brat !!!!!!!!!!!! That is a BRAT !!!!!! Is every spoiled

rotten brat mentally ill? I think not. I don't think my own daughter is

mentally ill or ever was. She was and is a great manipulator. I now she has

self

esteem issues, but as I have stated, she never harmed herself, but has

always liked to control other people. So she would threaten to harmherself.

The

drama of taking a knife and hoolding it to her wrist. I would get nervous and

try to talk her out of it and my son would yell in her face, " Do it you,

-itch and do us all a favor " ! With that she would drop the knife and run out.

She KNEW she couldn't manipulate him and so she couldn't win that game.

Operative word, she " KNEW " . She was cognizant of what she was doing at all

times

and responsible for her behavior.

You really have to reach the point where you just no longer get that worried

about her. If you can say to her and mean it that you don't give a damned

what she does or where she goes, that it is her life and if she chooses to

ruin it, then it is HER problem, not yours, then she LOOSES THE CONTROL over

you

and she may change her behavior.

It is like Debbie L has said over and over, change your reactions to her and

she will change. It is like taking the wind out of her sails.

It is like retraining my dog. I got sick of being growled at and bitten,

put him thru rigorous retraining and now I have a dog I like, who puts his ears

back when I reprimand him ( he used to challenge me constantly and now

doesn't). LIke a dog who wants to be " alpha " ( leader of the pack), so do these

kids. Harry wanted to be disciplined and so do kids. I have often read that

children respond well to discipline (maybe not n the beginning, but after a

while) because it makes them feel safe and loved. Unfortunately, too many of

us let our daughters get away with too much while they were younger and they

developed into these monsters.

But DO NOT allow her to get away with destroying YOUR things and running

rough shot all over you. Kick her little butt out the door. Once I got over

the shock of my " perfect. straight A, helpful, caring " daughter having turned

into the nasty animal she became, I lost no time in slamming the door behind

her and having a lokcksmith change the locks on my doors. I packed up her

stuff and left it in the driveway and told her not to comeback till she could

act human. She was 19 then. Of course, she would behave for a while and then

act like a witch again and ( I learned to change the locks myself). SHe

went to many counselors, spit in the face of one and pushed her-----this was IN

a private mental hospital and they did nothing. She was and is smart and

could always out talk and out smart the " professionals " . And then brag about it

ot me !!!!!!

I look back now and think if I had stood my ground and not have let her back

in only to continue playing her control games, she would not be as she is

today. Perhaps having to live on her own back then would have developed her

self confidence and she would not have been with all these losers. She

certainly would not have ended up worse.

She was in college at the time she pulled all this crap with me, so she was

old enough to have stayed on her own without my support at all---Daddy

dearest paid her tuition. I should have washed my hands of her then and I KNOW

she

would have straightened out faster. But I was too scared of losing her.

But losing what she had become would have been no great loss. What do I have

now----a 33 yr old who is still a child and whom I usually can't stand.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Debbie L

I just read about all the mental health interventions you had your daughter

in when she acted like a nut. But in the end, what really worked? Your

taking a strong, no nonsense stand with her. All the rest of it just gave her

attention. It was when you withdrew the attention and told her, " my way or

the highway " , that things changed.

Jean

[Guest guest]

I really do not think your daughter is dangerous unless she is on drugs

while exhibiting these behaviors. She sounds like she knows exactly what she

is

doing. You gave her boundaries she does not like and she is making you pay

the consequences. She can't use the car, you will pay for that. SHe is not

ill, she is spoiled. She sounds exactly like my daughtrer when she was in

college, but I am pretty sure K used no drugs or alcohol. She liked being the

one in control there too. Her friends used, but she could be " better " than

them by not using. Anytime I could get her evaluated, they would drug test her

and found nothing. She was a witch all on her own.

What I am doing with her now is what I should have done 10 years ago. You

are feeling bad for her because she may be " ill " / She is not. She is using

your fears against you, controlling you by your own fears AND SHE KNOWS all

your buttons to push. These kids are smart, because you, like me, have

probably bared your soul to her, and now she is using it all against you to get

what

she wants. Think about it.

Jean

[Guest guest]

CAn someone tell me how the behaviors of these girls is a mental illness, if

when we change our reactrions to them, their behaviors change? No

medications, no therapy, just our not putting up with their crap and

manipulations.

HOW is that a mental illness? I call it brats who ;earn they can no longer

get their own way. Many of them do not act this way on the outside world and

function just at school or jobs---at least mine did. So how is that a mental

illness?

Jean

[Guest guest]

a mental illness does not always present itself the same everywhere. can

those with BPD control where and when and with whom they rage? I think, somewhat

they can. they rage with whom they're most familiar with; those that they are

closest to; those who they think wouldn't leave them. they are terrified of

being abandoned; those who are the closest won't abandon them. but, the more

space we give them to act out (knowing or unknowingly), they take advantage of;

don't ask why. I have no idea. I just know that she is high maintenance, and

always has been. anytime I lower my guard, she jumps all over me. I must

consider

every word a bait and listen well before responding. it's exhausting, but I

love her and miss a close mother/daughter relationship.

j

[Guest guest]

Just too tired of all her problems to give a damn. I am sick of watching

what I say. Sick of her lack of appreciation. Sick of her spending money on

foolishness for the kids, like the second blow up pool this summer becasue the

dog ate the first. And I keep getting calls on my cell from her mortgage

company becasue, yes, that's right---------she didn't pay the June mortgage!!!

But she has money for junk.

I am so ready for a life of my own. I don't know how much longer those boys

are going to be the staying point for me. I feel like I am going to soon

have a late mid life crisis and bolt. Just get the hell away from all this.

Start a new life for myself and not give her a phone #. I am angry at

everyone all the time. I have been listing some very upscale homes with normal

families in them, people living the kind of life I was supposed to have, but

NO,

I have had to have this crap in my life for way too long now and I am real

close to being through with it all.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Toni

No, I am not on the mortgage. I would NEVER cosign for her or my son for

that matter. After what I have been thru with her, I trust no one. I think

she probably gave them my cell # so I will know when the mortgage was in

trouble without her asking me for money. And it does stress me. I called the

#

back that keeps leaving the message and told them I have no affiliation with

their mortgage company and to stop calling me or else. They apologized. Said

they must have the wrong #. But I am sure their computer will call me againa

and aggravate me.

I just hate my life so much. I am in those years of my life where I should

be living completely for me. Playing golf, going on trips, etc, but NO, I am

stuck raising her kids. And I am hating my life more and more each day. I

still enjoy the boys and even Emerson who is jsut adorable. But I look at

all of them and think to myself, I just want to visit them, not raise them, not

babysit for them every minute I am not working. Real estate is stressful

enough and I can not deal with all her problems any longer or I am truely going

to break.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Also, you cannot be sued for a bad loan, only have your credit ruined. They

will foreclose on this house ( I am babysitting here again tonight), and her

credit will once again be ruined. She filed bankruptcy 7 years ago and now

a foreclosure, she will never be able to buy another car or house for a good

10 years. And this does stress ME-----but I have got to somehow reach the

point where I can internalize what I say ourtwardly-----that it is NOT my

problem.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Hi Jean,

Sounds like you got some kind of religion this past

week!

We went to our psychiatrist yesterday. Our daughter

is away, so my husband and I went together and asked

all the questions we'd been wanting to ask. The

advice we got was at times kind of contradictory, but

he seemed to feel that our attitude was key. We

(meaning ME) had to stay calm and not get emotional

and not get embroiled. At the same time, we couldn't

expect her to solve everything on her own. When she's

emotional and upset, patting her on the head and

noting her unhappiness was about all that could be

done. Matters could be brought up later when she was

calm. Don't get ahead of her and try to solve

problems before they arose. He said the therapy would

be consisting of helping her work through problems

that she had yet to get herself into. Therefore don't

solve those problems, eh? He said the idea was expand

the possibilities for solutions and trying to get her

to see that she was making the wrong decisions and the

wrong interpretations about things. Talking about it

later, my husband and I decided that would all be

pretty hard for us amateurs. But what we can do now

is to stay calm in the face of anything she has to

offer. Not go running to solve all her problems.

We told her that she had had a terrible experience at

the airport. Her flight was cancelled, she was given

stand-by on another flight. She got sent to the wrong

gate. When she finally found her flight they flight

refused to let her on, but took off with her luggage.

Getting out of the airport she got treated like a

terrorist and searched completely. She got another

flight early the next morning, but almost missed it

because they must have had her name in the computer as

a suspicious person, and she got pulled out of line

and searched all over again. (She may give us grief,

but she has a very sweet countenance) We told the

doctor about this and he said, " Oh well, that's a good

experience for her to have to deal with. "

It's like, do your best, and then let her flail around

and then help her think through that. Although

getting to that last step is going to be the hard

part...

Love you AND YOU KEEP UP THE GOOOOOD WORK!

Deborah

--- cascorsam@... wrote:

> CAn someone tell me how the behaviors of these girls

> is a mental illness, if

> when we change our reactrions to them, their

> behaviors change? No

> medications, no therapy, just our not putting up

> with their crap and manipulations.

> HOW is that a mental illness? I call it brats who

> ;earn they can no longer

> get their own way. Many of them do not act this

> way on the outside world and

> function just at school or jobs---at least mine

> did. So how is that a mental

> illness?

>

> Jean

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Jean-

On a practical side. . . did you cosign for her mortgage? Can you get yourself

removed?

You know real estate and I don't, but I do know that if you cosign for her, a

bpding dong, you can be in for real trouble with your credit.

If I woke up in your shoes, I'd get myself off her loan. And right quick. Or

you will be paying the mortgage, either now or you can be sued. But I would

guess you know all that. If you are not on the mortgage, why are they calling

you?

I hope you can pull yourself out of all of it. This kind of life is not what

any of us had in mind, and only you can change your life circumstances.

In the boat rowing with you all,

Toni

cascorsam@... wrote:

Just too tired of all her problems to give a damn. I am sick of watching

what I say. Sick of her lack of appreciation. Sick of her spending money on

foolishness for the kids, like the second blow up pool this summer becasue the

dog ate the first. And I keep getting calls on my cell from her mortgage

company becasue, yes, that's right---------she didn't pay the June mortgage!!!

But she has money for junk.

I am so ready for a life of my own. I don't know how much longer those boys

are going to be the staying point for me. I feel like I am going to soon

have a late mid life crisis and bolt. Just get the hell away from all this.

Start a new life for myself and not give her a phone #. I am angry at

everyone all the time. I have been listing some very upscale homes with normal

families in them, people living the kind of life I was supposed to have, but NO,

I have had to have this crap in my life for way too long now and I am real

close to being through with it all.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean --

What I have to say is said with much love, affection and concern:

YOU have to remove yourself from the chaos that is her life -- even if means

spending much less time with the boys. When I joined this board a little less

than a year ago, you were " taking some time off " from the board b/c you really

wanted to evaluate and grieve the " loss " of your daughter. Now, a year later,

you are still in the same place or even a worse place b/c you have so much anger

and animosity at your daughter. She is a user, no doubt, b/c that's what BPs

do. She has VERY SERIOUS issues. The ONLY thing you have control over is YOU

and what you do in terms of your daughter. You will never be able to reason

with her, rationalize things to her, MAKE her understand her situation and its

precariousness. But you want to be able to do these things so badly and as an

outsider looking in, a lot of your anger and animosity is coming from your

inability to control her, or make her see reason or WHY IN THE HELL doesn't she

get it! She never will and you can't MAKE

her get it.

So . . . if you want to get rid of the feelings that you have -- all the

anger, all the animosity, all the hurt . . . YOU are going to have to wash your

hands of ALL OF IT. , the boys, Emerson, the baby, the babysitting, the

taking her phone calls, helping her transport kids back and forth -- ALL OF IT.

I would also suggest some counseling for yourself to help you deal with the pain

that's going to come with it. Your life is not out of control b/c of --

it's out of control because of you. is the catalyst but YOU HAVE THE

CONTROL TO TAKE YOUR LIFE BACK. When you're ready to exercise it.

I am praying for you every day b/c I am worried about you and want the very

best for you.

Kelley

ps -- there is this " call block " program that can be downloaded to your

computer where you can block calls from particular numbers (i.e., the mortgage

company if they don't get remove your number from the call list). if you want

it, let me know.

cascorsam@... wrote:

Toni

No, I am not on the mortgage. I would NEVER cosign for her or my son for

that matter. After what I have been thru with her, I trust no one. I think

she probably gave them my cell # so I will know when the mortgage was in

trouble without her asking me for money. And it does stress me. I called the #

back that keeps leaving the message and told them I have no affiliation with

their mortgage company and to stop calling me or else. They apologized. Said

they must have the wrong #. But I am sure their computer will call me againa

and aggravate me.

I just hate my life so much. I am in those years of my life where I should

be living completely for me. Playing golf, going on trips, etc, but NO, I am

stuck raising her kids. And I am hating my life more and more each day. I

still enjoy the boys and even Emerson who is jsut adorable. But I look at

all of them and think to myself, I just want to visit them, not raise them, not

babysit for them every minute I am not working. Real estate is stressful

enough and I can not deal with all her problems any longer or I am truely going

to break.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean-

OK, next time the mortgage co calls, if they do, tell them they are in

violation of law, then tell them you will contact your attorney if they contact

you again. They have NO BUSINESS contacting you if you are not on that mortgage.

OK, now about those kids. This is no longer about K and those kids this is

about your survival. Think long and hard about getting the whole bunch of them

out of your life for a long time. You need rest. It will not come until you boot

all of them. No more mrs. nice guy. No wonder you hate your life, you are a

walking doormat.

It has come to the point where you must make a change, a BIG change. K won't.

She simply won't and cannot. If you only change a little, you will not help

yourself. You must change things a lot!! Get a new cell # and don't give it to

her. Don't return her calls. DO NOT GIVE IN to those cute little kid eyes.

Honestly, in helping your grands, you are not helping K and the kids will only

lose worse in the end. So she can only transport 3 of them. Tough. Not your

problem.

GET OUT! GET OUT! GET OUT!

I know this sounds harsh. And I am so sorry you are in such an awful place.

What a way to spend a wonderful gift of your life. But, honey, you gotta do

something about it. Only you can do it. You gotta stop rescuing her and fighting

her battles. She'll never really grow up if you don't. You will actually be

helping her when you do this. May not seem so, may not sound so, but in the long

run, it will. AND you will have your health and sanity.

Toni

cascorsam@... wrote:

Toni

No, I am not on the mortgage. I would NEVER cosign for her or my son for

that matter. After what I have been thru with her, I trust no one. I think

she probably gave them my cell # so I will know when the mortgage was in

trouble without her asking me for money. And it does stress me. I called the #

back that keeps leaving the message and told them I have no affiliation with

their mortgage company and to stop calling me or else. They apologized. Said

they must have the wrong #. But I am sure their computer will call me againa

and aggravate me.

I just hate my life so much. I am in those years of my life where I should

be living completely for me. Playing golf, going on trips, etc, but NO, I am

stuck raising her kids. And I am hating my life more and more each day. I

still enjoy the boys and even Emerson who is jsut adorable. But I look at

all of them and think to myself, I just want to visit them, not raise them, not

babysit for them every minute I am not working. Real estate is stressful

enough and I can not deal with all her problems any longer or I am truely going

to break.

Jean

[Guest guest]

I cannot ever share joy with this one because their IS NO joy in her ever.

There was a fairy tale when she was little about a king who had a dauther who

was never happy, never smiled. He sent out notices far and wide that

whoever could make his daughter smile, would get her hand in marriage. In the

fairy tale, eventually someone did. I ALWAYS felt like that king---always

trying

to make her happy and never succeedinf. Always felt I had to overcompensate

because there was no father in the picture. She says she hated having to go

to the father daughter dances with my male cousin (who was always quite

handsome and very funny and she really liked him. But I guess it wasn't HER

father.

I told her perhaps she has some anger issues toward him that need to be

dealt with. But she says she is not angry at him or at Will. I guess she is

just always angry at me---the sap who has always been there for her.

My son son says he never remembers her being happy as a child and that I was

ALWAYS jumping thru hoops to please. This circus dog is tired.

Jean

[Guest guest]

PS The UP side of all this is that if " unhappiness " is part of BP,

my grandsons DON " T have it. They are always happy and chatty and interested

in life and the world around them. I hope they stay that way. They see the

good in everything.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Well said!!!

Jso1124@... wrote: a mental

illness does not always present itself the same everywhere. can

those with BPD control where and when and with whom they rage? I think,

somewhat

they can. they rage with whom they're most familiar with; those that they are

closest to; those who they think wouldn't leave them. they are terrified of

being abandoned; those who are the closest won't abandon them. but, the more

space we give them to act out (knowing or unknowingly), they take advantage

of;

don't ask why. I have no idea. I just know that she is high maintenance, and

always has been. anytime I lower my guard, she jumps all over me. I must

consider

every word a bait and listen well before responding. it's exhausting, but I

love her and miss a close mother/daughter relationship.

j

[Guest guest]

> Toni

>

> No, I am not on the mortgage. I would NEVER cosign for her or my

son for

> that matter. After what I have been thru with her, I trust no one.

I think

> she probably gave them my cell # so I will know when the mortgage

was in

> trouble without her asking me for money. And it does stress me. I

called the #

> back that keeps leaving the message and told them I have no

affiliation with

> their mortgage company and to stop calling me or else. They

apologized. Said

> they must have the wrong #. But I am sure their computer will call

me againa

> and aggravate me.

>

> I just hate my life so much. I am in those years of my life where

I should

> be living completely for me. Playing golf, going on trips, etc,

but NO, I am

> stuck raising her kids. And I am hating my life more and more each

day. I

> still enjoy the boys and even Emerson who is jsut adorable. But I

look at

> all of them and think to myself, I just want to visit them, not

raise them, not

> babysit for them every minute I am not working. Real estate is

stressful

> enough and I can not deal with all her problems any longer or I am

truely going

> to break.

>

> Jean

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jean,

I think it's their thinking that qualifies it as mental illness. It is not

sound. Their thinking in turn leads them to actions which are not necessarily

accepted social standards. Some of these kids don't get it -- they don't see

how their actions hurt others. I think they do get they are hurting inside,

sometimes that's why they lash out -- if they are hurting, the anger comes out.

I think with some of the kids they want to do the right thing on the outside, so

they try. Some make it, who are not enabled, others do not.

As far as the control thing, I agree with you. Some of the actions seem to be

so people get out of their way as if to tell you they are in control. When in

fact, they are so out of control. Not a lot of control of their feelings or the

others around them. If they finally realize they can't control others, and

accept the world as it is, I think there's hope.

Some of the kids who are not high functioning have greater problems with

independence and turning their lives around.

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

From: cascorsam@...

CAn someone tell me how the behaviors of these girls is a mental illness, if

when we change our reactrions to them, their behaviors change? No

medications, no therapy, just our not putting up with their crap and

manipulations.

HOW is that a mental illness? I call it brats who ;earn they can no longer

get their own way. Many of them do not act this way on the outside world and

function just at school or jobs---at least mine did. So how is that a mental

illness?

Jean

[Guest guest]

I, too, miss the mother-daughter relationship. I love my son, I feel we're

tight but I always thought I'd have a great mother-daughter relationship.

I see who appear to be beautiful moms and daughters when I'm out, and it makes

me smile. I sometimes come home and tell my husband what I observed. Just seems

so special to share laughter, joy and closeness with a daughter!

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

From: Jso1124@...

a mental illness does not always present itself the same everywhere. can

those with BPD control where and when and with whom they rage? I think, somewhat

they can. they rage with whom they're most familiar with; those that they are

closest to; those who they think wouldn't leave them. they are terrified of

being abandoned; those who are the closest won't abandon them. but, the more

space we give them to act out (knowing or unknowingly), they take advantage of;

don't ask why. I have no idea. I just know that she is high maintenance, and

always has been. anytime I lower my guard, she jumps all over me. I must

consider

every word a bait and listen well before responding. it's exhausting, but I

love her and miss a close mother/daughter relationship.

j

[Guest guest]

Jean,

This sounds like my daughter - never seemed happy as a child no

matter what I did.

>

> I cannot ever share joy with this one because their IS NO joy in

her ever.

> There was a fairy tale when she was little about a king who had a

dauther who

> was never happy, never smiled. He sent out notices far and wide

that

> whoever could make his daughter smile, would get her hand in

marriage. In the

> fairy tale, eventually someone did. I ALWAYS felt like that king-

--always trying

> to make her happy and never succeedinf. Always felt I had to

overcompensate

> because there was no father in the picture. She says she hated

having to go

> to the father daughter dances with my male cousin (who was always

quite

> handsome and very funny and she really liked him. But I guess it

wasn't HER

> father.

>

> I told her perhaps she has some anger issues toward him that need

to be

> dealt with. But she says she is not angry at him or at Will. I

guess she is

> just always angry at me---the sap who has always been there for

her.

>

> My son son says he never remembers her being happy as a child and

that I was

> ALWAYS jumping thru hoops to please. This circus dog is tired.

>

> Jean

>

>

>