Re: winter can kiss my : POLL

December 1, 2006

I have a question to ask those that live in areas with lots of snow for long

periods of time;

My parents just moved up to an area that gets snow, they have never

lived in the snow (we are live long California)....but one of the first

things they did was go out and buy new truck and suv.......because they said

they needed four wheel drive's......I notice allot of people that live

around them just have regular cars nothing special......

So I would like to know of those that live in the snow areas, do you

have 4x4? do all the people that live in Michigan drive 4x4's? I have a car

and it seems to do ok in the snow, I don't drive unless I have to when Im up

there and its snowing, but Im just curious how you guys that have to deal

with this stuff for months on end cope......

Mike T

Re: Re: winter can kiss my still big ass

> I'm with Mike in GR - winter can leave any time. Here in Oklahoma, we had

> almost 2 days of high wind, rain, blowing sleet and ice, then 6 or 7

> inches of snow. I just spent the last 3 hours cleaning off my driveway

> and walk. And, I didn't get finished. Some of the ice is still too thick

> to move. I think I got my work out for 3 days at least!

> Sue

>

> PS How many calories does one burn shoveling snow and ice?

>

> ---- Tracey gtojones@...> wrote:

>

> =============

>

>> Mike in GR (send heat please)

>>

> Poor Mike in GR , Not to be a smart A@@ but I wish I had some cold

> weather, I am sitting here with my window open enjoying the breezy 72

> deg. weather on the 1st on December and it's only 10am. I am

> originally from NY so it kinda sucks to me. Keep warm !

>

> Tracey in VA (send snow :-)

>

> We are a very active support group.

> If the email becomes overwhelming,

> please change your setting to NO EMAIL!

> Please contact Group Creator

> Robyn@...

>

December 1, 2006

Yep......it rusts.......I love old muscle cars, and nobody would ever buy an

old muscle car from Montana! Those are bound to be rust buckets! I only buy

original California cars.....And thanks for your info....

Mike T

Re: Re: winter can kiss my : POLL

> This is my kind of question. I live in Montana. It

> doesn't snow like it did when I was a kid but we still

> have snow and there is more on its way tonight. I am

> a farmgirl and we always had the 4X4's...They are good

> vehicles to jump snow drifts with when I was a kid.

> Snow these days stays for a few days and is gone and

December 1, 2006

We can get some pretty wicked snow here in PA and I don't have a 4x4 I drive a

mini van. In fact most people I know don't have one(what can I say we are a

bunch of soccer moms). I have found that people that aren't used to the snow

tend to over compensate i.e. bigger cars or trucks a months worth of TP and lots

of bread and milk if the weather man says it may snow an inch or more LOL. Lets

face it you don't really need a car like that unless you live in the back woods

somewhere where a plow can't get to and if you live like that probably not going

to go out in the stuff anyway. So that is my experience and I say if they feel

safer in a 4x4 let em have it they may have fun driving it around in the white

stuff.

December 1, 2006

I just drive a regular car. I moved to Michigan from Texas in 1999 and

didn't know what I was getting myself into :-)

IMHO, driving 4x4's often gives the driver a false sense of security.

I see them zipping by on the roads when it's snowing because of that

mentality. Then a few miles down the way, I see them in the ditch. If

you are driving through deep snow, they might be helpful, but they are

just as susceptible to sliding on icy roads as a regular car.

Keep in mind that if you live in a non-rural area in a region that

routinely gets snow, they are usually pretty good about keeping the

roads plowed and salted/sanded. Our condo association budgets $60,000

for snow removal each year. I've been at work when we had 6 inches of

snow dumped on us and drove home with no problems that evening. I only

drove about 45 on the highway, but that wasn't too bad.

When I was in Texas, we would get .5-1 inch of snow and you could be

certain the schools would be shut down for a day or two. Now, if I

hear that we are going to get 5 inches overnight, I think " Darn, that

isn't enough to justify staying home. " It's funny how things change.

in MI

> >> Mike in GR (send heat please)

> >>

> > Poor Mike in GR , Not to be a smart A@@ but I wish I had some cold

> > weather, I am sitting here with my window open enjoying the breezy 72

> > deg. weather on the 1st on December and it's only 10am. I am

> > originally from NY so it kinda sucks to me. Keep warm !

> >

> > Tracey in VA (send snow :-)

> >

> > We are a very active support group.

> > If the email becomes overwhelming,

> > please change your setting to NO EMAIL!

> > Please contact Group Creator

> > Robyn@...

> >

December 1, 2006

Iâ€™m in Iowa and wouldnâ€™t leave my house all winter if I didnâ€™t have 4WD.

Iâ€™ve never gotten stuck! kath

Re: Re: winter can kiss my : POLL

I have a question to ask those that live in areas with lots of snow for long

periods of time;

My parents just moved up to an area that gets snow, they have never

lived in the snow (we are live long California)....but one of the first

things they did was go out and buy new truck and suv.......because they said

they needed four wheel drive's......I notice allot of people that live

around them just have regular cars nothing special......

So I would like to know of those that live in the snow areas, do you

have 4x4? do all the people that live in Michigan drive 4x4's? I have a car

and it seems to do ok in the snow, I don't drive unless I have to when Im up

there and its snowing, but Im just curious how you guys that have to deal

with this stuff for months on end cope......

Mike T

Re: Re: winter can kiss my still big ass

> I'm with Mike in GR - winter can leave any time. Here in Oklahoma, we had

> almost 2 days of high wind, rain, blowing sleet and ice, then 6 or 7

> inches of snow. I just spent the last 3 hours cleaning off my driveway

> and walk. And, I didn't get finished. Some of the ice is still too thick

> to move. I think I got my work out for 3 days at least!

> Sue

>

> PS How many calories does one burn shoveling snow and ice?

>

> ---- Tracey < gtojones@... > wrote:

>

> =============

>

>> Mike in GR (send heat please)

>>

> Poor Mike in GR , Not to be a smart A@@ but I wish I had some cold

> weather, I am sitting here with my window open enjoying the breezy 72

> deg. weather on the 1st on December and it's only 10am. I am

> originally from NY so it kinda sucks to me. Keep warm !

>

> Tracey in VA (send snow :-)

>

> We are a very active support group.

> If the email becomes overwhelming,

> please change your setting to NO EMAIL!

> Please contact Group Creator

> Robyn@...

>

December 1, 2006

Thats what I thought that the undercarriage rusts. I

wouldn't buy a vehicle from here either... some of the

crazy drivers around here sure beat up their vehicles

buy either mudding, puddle jumping, off roading,

driving the quarter mile, etc. But is sure was fun!

--- Mike Tune tune1552@...> wrote:

> Yep......it rusts.......I love old muscle cars, and

> nobody would ever buy an

> old muscle car from Montana! Those are bound to be

> rust buckets! I only buy

> original California cars.....And thanks for your

> info....

>

> Mike T

>

> Re: Re: winter can

> kiss my : POLL

>

> > This is my kind of question. I live in Montana.

> It

> > doesn't snow like it did when I was a kid but we

> still

> > have snow and there is more on its way tonight. I

> am

> > a farmgirl and we always had the 4X4's...They are

> good

> > vehicles to jump snow drifts with when I was a

> kid.

> > Snow these days stays for a few days and is gone

> and

>

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December 1, 2006

From a N.D. girl...the worst weather in the country...if you don't have a 4

wheel, someone that does comes to pick you up in the really bad weather.

Mike Tune tune1552@...> wrote: I have a question to ask those

that live in areas with lots of snow for long

periods of time;

My parents just moved up to an area that gets snow, they have never

lived in the snow (we are live long California)....but one of the first

things they did was go out and buy new truck and suv.......because they said

they needed four wheel drive's......I notice allot of people that live

around them just have regular cars nothing special......

So I would like to know of those that live in the snow areas, do you

have 4x4? do all the people that live in Michigan drive 4x4's? I have a car

and it seems to do ok in the snow, I don't drive unless I have to when Im up

there and its snowing, but Im just curious how you guys that have to deal

with this stuff for months on end cope......

Mike T

Re: Re: winter can kiss my still big ass

> I'm with Mike in GR - winter can leave any time. Here in Oklahoma, we had

> almost 2 days of high wind, rain, blowing sleet and ice, then 6 or 7

> inches of snow. I just spent the last 3 hours cleaning off my driveway

> and walk. And, I didn't get finished. Some of the ice is still too thick

> to move. I think I got my work out for 3 days at least!

> Sue

>

> PS How many calories does one burn shoveling snow and ice?

>

> ---- Tracey gtojones@...> wrote:

>

> =============

>

>> Mike in GR (send heat please)

>>

> Poor Mike in GR , Not to be a smart A@@ but I wish I had some cold

> weather, I am sitting here with my window open enjoying the breezy 72

> deg. weather on the 1st on December and it's only 10am. I am

> originally from NY so it kinda sucks to me. Keep warm !

>

> Tracey in VA (send snow :-)

>

> We are a very active support group.

> If the email becomes overwhelming,

> please change your setting to NO EMAIL!

> Please contact Group Creator

> Robyn@...

>

December 2, 2006

Mike,

Great question! Not all of Michigan gets much snow. Detroit actually

gets very little compared to West Michigan and we get a fraction

compared to the Upper Peninsula.

I have never owned a 4X4 in the 20+ years I've been driving in

Michigan winters. I've also driving in those winters to other states

to " enjoy " their areas albeit temporarily. I even drove in Oklahoma

the couple of days they had snow in early 1998. It's not the car,

it's the driver.

Michigan drivers are not perfect. Every year there seems to be some

learning curve. Maybe I'm arrogant but I can't figure it out. Sure

there are new drivers every year and transplants like your parents

but it seems that MOST drivers get out on the road during the first

snow and seem to forget not only the previous year but the years

prior to that. Has the snow changed? Is it worse? Is it better? Is it

whiter or something? I just DO NOT GET IT!!

Ok back to the 4X4. I've heard from others it's unnecessary for the

most part. Having a raised vehicle definitely does help. As far as

control on slippery surfaces it will help to have a 4X4 assuming you

get stuck in a situation where there is gripping available to one or

better two tires. Good luck with that idea since snow, ice, etc.

general gets ALL OVER.

I've driven rear wheel drive cars and trucks, in a blizzard, without

weight in the back. Now that's an experience. This was on side roads

so nothing too dangerous but it was pretty much impossible to keep

the car on the road because the back end was basically just going

forward while the front wasn't. WEEEE.

Front wheel drive has gotten so much better (and a lot less fun) in

the last 5-10 years too. We all know about ABS. That stuff is great

by the way, but did you know that if your newer front wheel drive car

gets on something slippery and you instead accelerate to an extreme

that your car will give up when it detects the car isn't moving but

the tires are? I know I'm a bad monkey but in Austin I tried to fool

around with the rental car, I threw it into neutral to rev the engine

up to drop it back into drive for some power boost. Well nothing

doing. The car knew what was up and would only rev up to 3500 RPMs.

Where's the fun in that? New cars are much better able to handle

winter now driving wise. Sure 4X4s have this too.

One thing that does get on my last never is my criss-cross wipers on

my mini van. They get stuck on snow stuffed under the my hood and

sometimes stuck on ice coming up, then might get misaligned or out of

synch and then all hell breaks loose, they slam into each other,

bend, break, don't work (that's nice in winter) and end up costing me

many tens of dollars or a hundred. My car is a Chevy Venture, where

is Chevy headquartered? Didn't someone in some meeting ask the

question about what happens with these wipers in cold/snowy weather?

I'm just stunned.

The reason a lot of people around them have regular cars is because

they work fine. Having a 4X4, driving higher up, being larger etc.

does help from a comfort level but it's hardly a necessity. When my

kids get older I'm going to get a sedan again as my main

transportation because I won't need to ability to transport all my

kid's crap and friends (I hope) as often. But I have gotten used to

be higher up so maybe an SUV would be in order but that has nothing

to do with weather. Either way I'm not getting 4x4 because I don't

tow anything and I guess I don't get stuck enough or run into

problems where 4x4 would help me in the winter. I've heard that 4x4

doesn't help you to not get stuck, only when you do get stuck. Well

that's stupid, how about not getting stuck in the first place?

Let me ask this. Do they live right on the Western Lakeshore, in the

UP, or in a rural area? A high up 4x4 might help then if you're

looking at extreme snow or possibly days before you get plowed. I

guess I look at it this way; you're buying 4x4 so you can drive out

in even more extremes than the average Joe. Is this REALLY what you

want to do? Sure you can argue that you just want an advantage in the

average bad weather. You'd be better off investing your money and

time in learning defensive winter driving skills than 4x4 in my

opinion.

Have them go and drive crazy in a snow covered parking lot on a

Sunday after a good ice or snow. It's really sad, I used to be able

to do donuts and stuff with even front wheel drive cars back in the

early 90s but it's almost impossible to do today and I just can't get

that pig of a mini-van to do anything fun. It does seem to rev up to

maybe 4500rpms though so I get a bit more of a charge on ice if I'm

screwing around but it's just not the same as all out stupidity of my

youth.

Mike in GR

> >> Mike in GR (send heat please)

> >>

> > Poor Mike in GR , Not to be a smart A@@ but I wish I had some cold

> > weather, I am sitting here with my window open enjoying the

breezy 72

> > deg. weather on the 1st on December and it's only 10am. I am

> > originally from NY so it kinda sucks to me. Keep warm !

> >

> > Tracey in VA (send snow :-)

> >

> > We are a very active support group.

> > If the email becomes overwhelming,

> > please change your setting to NO EMAIL!

> > Please contact Group Creator

> > Robyn@...

> >

December 2, 2006

Very cool information. When I drove in OK during the snow it was

hilarious. I was zipping along at about 10 UNDER the 45-55mph speed

limit and others were driving about 20mph. Not to be a jerk but there

is something to be said about not being out in that weather for an

extended period. If you get to where you're going faster you're not

out on the road.

4x4 does equal false sense of security, especially in urban areas.

For the life of me I can't figure out why people get F-250s and 350s

even in the suburbs. Maybe if they've got two or more things to tow

but just to drive? When you drive to a city how do you park that

monster? My street is very small, good luck getting down it with that

pig.

> > >> Mike in GR (send heat please)

> > >>

> > > Poor Mike in GR , Not to be a smart A@@ but I wish I had some

cold

> > > weather, I am sitting here with my window open enjoying the

breezy 72

> > > deg. weather on the 1st on December and it's only 10am. I am

> > > originally from NY so it kinda sucks to me. Keep warm !

> > >

> > > Tracey in VA (send snow :-)

> > >

> > > We are a very active support group.

> > > If the email becomes overwhelming,

> > > please change your setting to NO EMAIL!

> > > Please contact Group Creator

> > > Robyn@

> > >

December 2, 2006

Like you said, 4x4's are needed up in the mountains. That is why I

have one...I live 6 foot from God and man do I get snowed in! The

township tried to plow me out one time when I needed to get to the

hospital and they couldn't do it. I was put on their strecher and

slid down my hill. Talk about being scared and sick! They told me I

should wright a book.

So glad I didn't get any of the white stuff!!!!!

Judy

>

> We can get some pretty wicked snow here in PA and I don't have a

4x4 I drive a mini van. In fact most people I know don't have one

(what can I say we are a bunch of soccer moms). I have found that

people that aren't used to the snow tend to over compensate i.e.

bigger cars or trucks a months worth of TP and lots of bread and

milk if the weather man says it may snow an inch or more LOL. Lets

face it you don't really need a car like that unless you live in the

back woods somewhere where a plow can't get to and if you live like

that probably not going to go out in the stuff anyway. So that is

my experience and I say if they feel safer in a 4x4 let em have it

they may have fun driving it around in the white stuff.

>

December 2, 2006

That is very much the California lifestyle.......It seems everybody has a

huge truck or escalade! I have a good sized car, but I like to have a little

more car around me in case I get hit......I used to have a full size truck,

it was a pain to park in the city...

Mike T

Re: winter can kiss my : POLL

> Very cool information. When I drove in OK during the snow it was

> hilarious. I was zipping along at about 10 UNDER the 45-55mph speed

> limit and others were driving about 20mph. Not to be a jerk but there

> is something to be said about not being out in that weather for an

> extended period. If you get to where you're going faster you're not

> out on the road.

>

> 4x4 does equal false sense of security, especially in urban areas.

> For the life of me I can't figure out why people get F-250s and 350s

> even in the suburbs. Maybe if they've got two or more things to tow

> but just to drive? When you drive to a city how do you park that

> monster? My street is very small, good luck getting down it with that

> pig.

>

>> > >> Mike in GR (send heat please)

>> > >>

>> > > Poor Mike in GR , Not to be a smart A@@ but I wish I had some

> cold

>> > > weather, I am sitting here with my window open enjoying the

> breezy 72

>> > > deg. weather on the 1st on December and it's only 10am. I am

>> > > originally from NY so it kinda sucks to me. Keep warm !

>> > >

>> > > Tracey in VA (send snow :-)

>> > >

>> > > We are a very active support group.

>> > > If the email becomes overwhelming,

>> > > please change your setting to NO EMAIL!

>> > > Please contact Group Creator

>> > > Robyn@

>> > >

December 2, 2006

I have seen places in the mountains where only a four wheel drive or

something with all wheel drive can manipulate in the snow, and am really

happy that I do not live in one of those places.

Lin

Lhsh@...

American by birth,

Saved by the grace of God.