RE: Assessment of others / Laugh of the Day/ Total confusion

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry, I have to crack up every time Elaine

describes her daughter as " the madam. " Whew. Thanks

for that perspective.

Now this matter of assessment. We are struggling with

family therapy -- hardly underway at all -- but one

thing I am finally realizing is that it was this

" assessment of others " and " assessment of situations "

that kept me in total confusion about my 22 year-old

daughter from the time she was about six. She

obviously had very strange assessments of her parents

and her sister (that we had witnessed) so when she

began to go on and on about how horrible everyone else

was (things we never saw) we were at a total loss as

to whether to believe her or not, to what degree to

believe her, etc.

Not only that, but as time went on, the story would

change -- oh I said that, but what I REALLY thought

was -- what really happened was --- (Another problem

was that over the years, some of her teachers took her

seriously and others didn't -- " We've never seen

anything like that happen, " even though the situation

here has kids on their own at school for longish

periods of time -- there's plenty of time for bad

things to happen without the teacher seeing, and both

my daughters assured me (in later years) that it

happened all the time.)

Unfortunately, a lot of the stories about horrible

things that happened were most likely true or even

worse than what she said, or so it would appear now.

While we have got guilt up to our eyeballs about all

of this, I think we can still say that we were always

completely confused, and this confusion kept us from

getting the degree of help we needed until things had

got pretty bad (the present day).

This is a little different from what Blondie and Jean

were describing. Anyone else been obstructed by this

sort of confusion?

Deborah

--- TxCoastGal@... wrote:

> Jean, I have found my daughter doing exactly the

> same thing. Telling me

> about others, and how 'crazy' they are, how they do

> 'this crazy thing', or that

> crazy thing..... on and on and on! Then I meet

> them, and they seem very

> nice! Intelligent, great conversationalists, etc.!

> Blondie

>

> My daughter's assessment of her is that she cannot

be trusted >and that she makes up stories and is

always trrying to cause >trouble. It was like she

was describing herself. Isn't that

> weird.

> Jean

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

The potential for confusion with my daughter was huge, so I was constantly

double checking what she said with her teachers, her friends' parents, etc.

That really helped - and kept her a whole lot more honest in what she told

us.

I had lots of conversations like this:

L: Mom, everyone at school does...

Me: Really? I'll check with Abby's mom and see what she says about that.

L: Don't bother, Mom.

This was when she was in 6th grade, and I kept it up all the way through

high school. It was hard, but absolutely necessary!

Right now I sometimes want to do that, but don't want to stir up a hornet's

nest, so I don't.

Helen

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of Deborah

Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 7:45 PM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: Re: Assessment of others / Laugh of the Day/

Total confusion

I'm sorry, I have to crack up every time Elaine

describes her daughter as " the madam. " Whew. Thanks

for that perspective.

Now this matter of assessment. We are struggling with

family therapy -- hardly underway at all -- but one

thing I am finally realizing is that it was this

" assessment of others " and " assessment of situations "

that kept me in total confusion about my 22 year-old

daughter from the time she was about six. She

obviously had very strange assessments of her parents

and her sister (that we had witnessed) so when she

began to go on and on about how horrible everyone else

was (things we never saw) we were at a total loss as

to whether to believe her or not, to what degree to

believe her, etc.

Not only that, but as time went on, the story would

change -- oh I said that, but what I REALLY thought

was -- what really happened was --- (Another problem

was that over the years, some of her teachers took her

seriously and others didn't -- " We've never seen

anything like that happen, " even though the situation

here has kids on their own at school for longish

periods of time -- there's plenty of time for bad

things to happen without the teacher seeing, and both

my daughters assured me (in later years) that it

happened all the time.)

Unfortunately, a lot of the stories about horrible

things that happened were most likely true or even

worse than what she said, or so it would appear now.

While we have got guilt up to our eyeballs about all

of this, I think we can still say that we were always

completely confused, and this confusion kept us from

getting the degree of help we needed until things had

got pretty bad (the present day).

This is a little different from what Blondie and Jean

were describing. Anyone else been obstructed by this

sort of confusion?

Deborah

--- TxCoastGal@... wrote:

> Jean, I have found my daughter doing exactly the

> same thing. Telling me

> about others, and how 'crazy' they are, how they do

> 'this crazy thing', or that

> crazy thing..... on and on and on! Then I meet

> them, and they seem very

> nice! Intelligent, great conversationalists, etc.!

> Blondie

>

> My daughter's assessment of her is that she cannot

be trusted >and that she makes up stories and is

always trrying to cause >trouble. It was like she

was describing herself. Isn't that

> weird.

> Jean

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks Helen, but it sounds like your daughter was

telling lies(?) I don't think mine was lying, she was

(and is) putting her reality through some strange sort

of filter and we're getting kind of an alternate

version of reality, and then it gets put through the

filter again for another version, and another...

--- Helen Eby dheby@...> wrote:

> The potential for confusion with my daughter was

> huge, so I was constantly

> double checking what she said with her teachers, her

> friends' parents, etc.

> That really helped - and kept her a whole lot more

> honest in what she told

> us.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I'm really not sure they were lies, but she found that as I double checked

things I got the answers I was more likely to expect. When she said

" everybody.... " , it really meant " the two or three kids that I wish I were " ,

but she wouldn't have expressed it that way. Since BPs see things as all or

nothing, they are likely to make that kind of generalization. My scientific

survey approach drove her nuts, but worked.

Also, with their snapshot view of life, though a teacher says they have to

work on something in order to resolve an issue, all she would take home as

her impression was that since there was a plan, she was done. However, she

forgot that she had to do the work...

It's complicated. It felt like lies to me, but I'm not sure she viewed it

that way.

Helen

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of Deborah

Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:13 PM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: RE: Assessment of others / Laugh of the Day/

Total confusion

Thanks Helen, but it sounds like your daughter was

telling lies(?) I don't think mine was lying, she was

(and is) putting her reality through some strange sort

of filter and we're getting kind of an alternate

version of reality, and then it gets put through the

filter again for another version, and another...

--- Helen Eby dheby@...> wrote:

> The potential for confusion with my daughter was

> huge, so I was constantly

> double checking what she said with her teachers, her

> friends' parents, etc.

> That really helped - and kept her a whole lot more

> honest in what she told

> us.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Helen,

Yes, that clarification makes perfect sense.

Thanks for following up.

Deborah

> It's complicated. It felt like lies to me, but I'm

> not sure she viewed it that way.

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Deborah,

Please try to mitigate your feeling " guilty " because you didn't know what was

really going on. You cannot change it. There may be some truth to it; there

may not. You may never know. Just go with your instinct which is

You are getting help now. That is good.

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

> I'm sorry, I have to crack up every time Elaine

> describes her daughter as " the madam. " Whew. Thanks

> for that perspective.

>

> Now this matter of assessment. We are struggling with

> family therapy -- hardly underway at all -- but one

> thing I am finally realizing is that it was this

> " assessment of others " and " assessment of situations "

> that kept me in total confusion about my 22 year-old

> daughter from the time she was about six. She

> obviously had very strange assessments of her parents

> and her sister (that we had witnessed) so when she

> began to go on and on about how horrible everyone else

> was (things we never saw) we were at a total loss as

> to whether to believe her or not, to what degree to

> believe her, etc.

>

> Not only that, but as time went on, the story would

> change -- oh I said that, but what I REALLY thought

> was -- what really happened was --- (Another problem

> was that over the years, some of her teachers took her

> seriously and others didn't -- " We've never seen

> anything like that happen, " even though the situation

> here has kids on their own at school for longish

> periods of time -- there's plenty of time for bad

> things to happen without the teacher seeing, and both

> my daughters assured me (in later years) that it

> happened all the time.)

>

> Unfortunately, a lot of the stories about horrible

> things that happened were most likely true or even

> worse than what she said, or so it would appear now.

> While we have got guilt up to our eyeballs about all

> of this, I think we can still say that we were always

> completely confused, and this confusion kept us from

> getting the degree of help we needed until things had

> got pretty bad (the present day).

>

> This is a little different from what Blondie and Jean

> were describing. Anyone else been obstructed by this

> sort of confusion?

>

> Deborah

>

> --- TxCoastGal@... wrote:

> > Jean, I have found my daughter doing exactly the

> > same thing. Telling me

> > about others, and how 'crazy' they are, how they do

> > 'this crazy thing', or that

> > crazy thing..... on and on and on! Then I meet

> > them, and they seem very

> > nice! Intelligent, great conversationalists, etc.!

> > Blondie

> >

> > My daughter's assessment of her is that she cannot

> be trusted >and that she makes up stories and is

> always trrying to cause >trouble. It was like she

> was describing herself. Isn't that

> > weird.

> > Jean

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I've also observed over the years my daughter didn't like to be confronted --

about anything. It was almost as if " she would be found out. "

She's over 18 now, lies constantly, and I really don't confront her. In my

eyes, she has a personal agenda which she does not choose to share -- probably

because she knows (feels) I would not approve of it. For example, she really

came up to party, and told me otherwise. So, the days she structured to look at

day care and places to live she basically blew off.

Carol

--------- RE: Assessment of others / Laugh of the Day/

> Total confusion

>

>

> Thanks Helen, but it sounds like your daughter was

> telling lies(?) I don't think mine was lying, she was

> (and is) putting her reality through some strange sort

> of filter and we're getting kind of an alternate

> version of reality, and then it gets put through the

> filter again for another version, and another...

>

> --- Helen Eby wrote:

>

> > The potential for confusion with my daughter was

> > huge, so I was constantly

> > double checking what she said with her teachers, her

> > friends' parents, etc.

> > That really helped - and kept her a whole lot more

> > honest in what she told

> > us.

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I have 2 daughters brought up with the same rules, priveleges, etc..... My

daughter that is BP has told people she was abused, negleted - she actually told

a social worker that we lived in a home without heat and we live in northern MN.

Now I don't know if she really believes these things or not but she is very

convincing when telling others. Now my other daughter has a totally different

view of her childhood. If you talked to them seperately you would think they

were brought up in different homes. I have often thought that she has told so

many lies so often that she believes them her self.

Deborah minamimuki2004@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, I have to crack up every time Elaine

describes her daughter as " the madam. " Whew. Thanks

for that perspective.

Now this matter of assessment. We are struggling with

family therapy -- hardly underway at all -- but one

thing I am finally realizing is that it was this

" assessment of others " and " assessment of situations "

that kept me in total confusion about my 22 year-old

daughter from the time she was about six. She

obviously had very strange assessments of her parents

and her sister (that we had witnessed) so when she

began to go on and on about how horrible everyone else

was (things we never saw) we were at a total loss as

to whether to believe her or not, to what degree to

believe her, etc.

Not only that, but as time went on, the story would

change -- oh I said that, but what I REALLY thought

was -- what really happened was --- (Another problem

was that over the years, some of her teachers took her

seriously and others didn't -- " We've never seen

anything like that happen, " even though the situation

here has kids on their own at school for longish

periods of time -- there's plenty of time for bad

things to happen without the teacher seeing, and both

my daughters assured me (in later years) that it

happened all the time.)

Unfortunately, a lot of the stories about horrible

things that happened were most likely true or even

worse than what she said, or so it would appear now.

While we have got guilt up to our eyeballs about all

of this, I think we can still say that we were always

completely confused, and this confusion kept us from

getting the degree of help we needed until things had

got pretty bad (the present day).

This is a little different from what Blondie and Jean

were describing. Anyone else been obstructed by this

sort of confusion?

Deborah

--- TxCoastGal@... wrote:

> Jean, I have found my daughter doing exactly the

> same thing. Telling me

> about others, and how 'crazy' they are, how they do

> 'this crazy thing', or that

> crazy thing..... on and on and on! Then I meet

> them, and they seem very

> nice! Intelligent, great conversationalists, etc.!

> Blondie

>

> My daughter's assessment of her is that she cannot

be trusted >and that she makes up stories and is

always trrying to cause >trouble. It was like she

was describing herself. Isn't that

> weird.

> Jean

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

They DO believe their lies. I don't know it is because they tell so many so

often, but I do know they believe them. But I think my daughter is gettign

better on that one too. OR she is just too tired from waitressing 40 hrs

while pregnant and just doesn't have the energy to fabricate. Maybe they make

up stories out of boredom, who knows.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Mine used to tell parents of her friends that I used to loce her in her

room, when in fact SHE put a deadbolt lock on her bedroom door and would lock

it

with a key when she left so I wouldn't go in it. This was when she was in

college. I put a stop to that when she left her cat in their with no air

conditioner and no water during one hot summer week end and the cat almost

died.

We had a big blow up about that and I took the key and told her if she put

another lock on the door, she would be living at college or anywhere else all

summer too.

So, their perception is a bit shaky.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Thank you for that insight, I guess it does come down

to the bpd " alternate reality. " When we finally

intervened, and met her counselor and doctor where she

goes to school, as well as her friends and professors,

it was obvious they were trying to reconcile the

people they were meeting with the stories they had

heard about us. In fact they all mentioned it, " Well,

it's wonderful to see that her parents have decided to

get involved.... " We had left her to take care of

herself for a year or so, mainly because our

involvement didn't seem to be helping her much. Her

sister goes to the same school, and she said she was

tired of having to worry about what's being said about

her. At any rate bpd daughter is calmed down for now

and feeling more secure in her family relationships --

somehow we hit the right button -- and that sort of

thing has stopped for the time being. (Sheesh! A

house without heat in northern Minnesota. That was a

good one! My father was born in MN and my sister went

to college there...)

--- njbyrd@...> wrote:

> I have 2 daughters brought up with the same rules,

> priveleges, etc..... My daughter that is BP has told

> people she was abused, negleted - she actually told

> a social worker that we lived in a home without heat

> and we live in northern MN. Now I don't know if she

> really believes these things or not but she is very

> convincing when telling others. Now my other

> daughter has a totally different view of her

> childhood. If you talked to them seperately you

> would think they were brought up in different homes.

> I have often thought that she has told so many lies

> so often that she believes them her self.

>

>

__________________________________________________