Re: 38 yr old daughter Bipolar/BPD

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/29/2006 4:55:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lolxoxo444@... writes:

But how do I get her evalutaed for BPD? As only a Non

can truly understand...even in a friendly cycle... a diplomatic

suggestion that she be evaluated for BPD could start her rage.

Help Appreciated!

Hello and welcome to our group! You will find some good advice here

and get some great support from a bunch of wonderful people. We can almost

visualize each other, and we have all grown so close. We all share a common

bond

and this group has been a godsend for most of us. I see your daughter is 38,

then there is really nothing you can do yourself to get her evaluated. Until

your daughter realizes that she truly has a problem, she won't get help.

If you can call this lucky, I guess I am in that my daughter started at age

13 and I was able to get her onto recovery by age 18. I had wished I had found

out about this site earlier, but fortunately did in about the 3d year of her

behaviors. Until then, I was pretty much at a loss, as you are now. But I

was able to do things for her as she was not yet an adult. And even then, ran

into some brickwalls, even though she was a minor, she didn't have to

participate if she didn't want to. I wish you luck, remember to take care of

yourself

first, do not enable her and her behaviors. She's a big girl, she is going to

have to tackle this one on her own, but make sure you encourage her efforts

and let her know you love her. Set boundaries for yourself, letting her know

what behaviors you will and will not tolerate from her.

Hugs,

DebbieL

[Guest guest]

Hi and welcom.

You don't say how old your daughter is, although I assume she is an adult.

Once an adult, I don't think there is anything we can do to get them diagnosed.

They have to want counseling on their own to get help.

Are you speaking with her now, or is all form of communication still cut off? I

think if you set boundaries and what behaviors are acceptable or not, you can

still communicate with her. For example, as long as my daughter was raging or

mistreating me on the phone, I would tell her I could not speak to her. We

could continue our conversation when I was treated better. Over time, she

caught on. We don't speak frequently, we're not overly close, but we do have a

relationship and I know I am in her heart, too.

I have a new theory -- it's hard to be close to anyone who is hiding something

in their lives. If our kids could reach a point where they're open books and

like the fact we discover who they are, they could have better relationships.

But when they are afraid to share their friends with you, lifestyle or anything

of real importance, it's tough.

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

> This is my first log on to the group...So hello fellow SURVIVOR'S!

> Non BPD's are an exclusive club.. it's taken me years to discover

> there's a name for what my husband and I are living with and that

> there are other people going through this too! My daughter is my only

> child and I've been prisoner to my love and denial. My own parents

> and sisters have not seen the worst rage and physcial abuse and don't

> want to believe there's a real problem. They consider it our " family

> squables " at holiday's. That's made it easier for my daughter and I

> to keep the denial going.

>

> Since about 16 she's blamed and raged at and even a few times

> physically attacked me. She is a high functioning BPD with a

> stressful job in television. I recently gave up hope she would ever

> find the right combination of medication or therapy to end this rage

> so I cut off all communication with her. I know she takes med's for

> depression, anxiety and panic attacks, but she will not share her

> personal life with me, and I don't know her official diagnosis. I

> suspect it's not BPD.

>

> Two therapists I've consulted say she is very likely BPD or Bipolar.

> I've read two books on BPD and she fits 5 of the 7 criteria for this

> illness. Especially the Eggshell's book..described her, our life and

> relationship. But how do I get her evalutaed for BPD? As only a Non

> can truly understand...even in a friendly cycle... a diplomatic

> suggestion that she be evaluated for BPD could start her rage.

>

> Help Appreciated!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help, @....

SEND

> HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT RESPOND ONLINE.

>

> Essential reading to help you feel better and understand the BP in your life

> are:

>

> • SWOE ( " Stop Walking on Eggshells”) and the SWOE Workbook (for everyone)

> • HOPE FOR PARENTS

>

> Call 888-35-SHELL () to order your copies.

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner of BPDCentral and the WTO Online Community

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

(I forgot I am not supposed to include the original post-I dont know

how everybody remembers what we are talking about but okay....)

My adult daughter won't share her life with me anymore. I am no longer

privy to her experiences and we have lost the closness that I thought

we once had. Perhaps it was never there and I was deluding myself in

thinking it was....

shanara

[Guest guest]

Debbie is right on here. Be aware that as you set and keep your boundaries your

daughter will react and things may get worse for her. This may help her see that

she needs help, may even get the attention of other people around her. It might

hurt, but it may well be the only way to get her help and proctect yourself.

JM2C,

Toni

funnygirl1154@... wrote:

In a message dated 5/29/2006 4:55:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lolxoxo444@... writes:

But how do I get her evalutaed for BPD? As only a Non

can truly understand...even in a friendly cycle... a diplomatic

suggestion that she be evaluated for BPD could start her rage.

Help Appreciated!

Hello and welcome to our group! You will find some good advice here

and get some great support from a bunch of wonderful people. We can almost

visualize each other, and we have all grown so close. We all share a common

bond

and this group has been a godsend for most of us. I see your daughter is 38,

then there is really nothing you can do yourself to get her evaluated. Until

your daughter realizes that she truly has a problem, she won't get help.

If you can call this lucky, I guess I am in that my daughter started at age

13 and I was able to get her onto recovery by age 18. I had wished I had found

out about this site earlier, but fortunately did in about the 3d year of her

behaviors. Until then, I was pretty much at a loss, as you are now. But I

was able to do things for her as she was not yet an adult. And even then, ran

into some brickwalls, even though she was a minor, she didn't have to

participate if she didn't want to. I wish you luck, remember to take care of

yourself

first, do not enable her and her behaviors. She's a big girl, she is going to

have to tackle this one on her own, but make sure you encourage her efforts

and let her know you love her. Set boundaries for yourself, letting her know

what behaviors you will and will not tolerate from her.

Hugs,

DebbieL

[Guest guest]

,

I'm sorry that I haven't responded sooner as I hear you loud and clear! I

KNOW exactly what you mean. It's extremely hard and it hurts! I am new on this

site too.

My daughter is 17yrs old and I'm a single parent and have been for most of her

life.

I will share with you that my daughter has had an awful lot of very bad things

happen to her starting from 4 yrs old and continued. I certainly can understand

why she's so angry but these things just brought her full blown into BPD, which

I've been told that is almost always secondary to something else such as

Bipolar. She just started having violent rages back in Sept '05 but I rarely

saw them. Think her boyfriend took the brunt of them. Since he broke up with

her approx. 4 weeks ago, she has had about 5 violent rages, breaking things,

hitting the large front window with her fists and other things, throwing and

breaking things as well as threatening me. At first, I just hurt so much not

knowing what was wrong with my child. I've tried so hard to give her alot of

love, trying to make up for the cruel ways of other adults in her life. I am so

grateful that a relative gave me alot of info on BPD that Oliver sells. I

knew immediately that she had this. Finally,

with the support and all the postings on this site, along with other material

and support groups such as Alanon (for friends & families that have a problem

with someone's drinking/ addictive behavior), NarAnon (for the same but drugs)

and the newest, Shadow Voices (for people that have someone in their life with a

mental illness), I have learned alot and came to realize that " I " had to change

my behavior, my reactions AND though she is ill, STOP TAKING HER ABUSE! So far,

for alittle over a week, I believe........things have been much calmer!!!! It

was really hard for me the 1st time but each time it got easier that I no longer

have a problem with calling the police. I had to show her that " I " wasn't going

to take the abuse and allow her to scare me and raise my blood pressure! The

last time I called 911, she had not gone into a really violent episode yet but I

thought she was going too and 2 cop cars came with their sirens going. I know

they must have thought that I was

crazy when they got here but the time before when she was extremely violent and

scared me, they took 25 minutes so......... Anyway, she was in the bathroom when

I called and I talked low on my cell phone. I had my back to her and was on my

computer too so she had no idea. When they came to the door they stuck their

heads in, said " Police " and she grabbed her head with both hands and was in

shock and " she " was scared. I explained what she was doing and one of them took

me outside and asked me if she was bipolar. I took someone's advice on here and

said yes as they know what that is and their are so many similar traits.

Anyway, when the other came out they both told me that if I need them to call

them again. I then left the house though she had locked me out to make me

believe she was going to hurt herself but I could see she using this to

manipulate me which bpd's are very good at if you let them get away with it!

An hour later I called her and left a message on her cell phone that I

wouldn't be home until later as I had a call from a distressed cousin dealing

with the same thing with her adult daughter and was going over to see her and

then I told her that I loved her with all my heart but that I was going to take

her abusive behaviors anymore and no one should! Then, later I also told her

that the money that I have all too willingly given her, she'd have to earn as

that's the way life is. You must EARN your money and it was going to be the same

for her. I've come to realize that this is the best way to help her also. It

was as if she felt safe, more secure and loved after I did all of this. Wow!

huh?!

Well, your daughter is an adult now and what I've been told, until she hurts

bad enough, she won't get help or accept it. The 1st most important thing that

I've learned is to take care of me! That will teach her the most and NOT to take

her abuse and to stick to 100percent of whatever I say! I don't know if your

daughter is dangerous but I have to tell you that you MUST keep yourself safe

foremost, whatever you have to do, do it! You can cry about it later whatever

steps you take but that is something she must learn. YOU WONT TAKE IT. It's hard

but it teaches alot no matter what it seems at the time not to mention how

strong it can make you. At first, I actually thought that people didn't love

their children as I do mine but now I realize that's not the case

I highly recommend Alanon group meetings. I read on this bpdcentral site that

bpd is also known as the " Addictive personality " and that hurt because I know

their is history in her family of alcoholism. So, bottomline, being the same,

Alanon meetings on a regular basis gives me the extra strength I need to be able

to live with this in my daughter and know there's hope but it all must begin

with me. ME changing my reactions and taking care of me. Her having to suffer

the consequences of her actions.

I apologize for going on and on but I do hear you and your pain and identify

with it as we all do on here. I'm sure others have posted messages for you as I

am way behind in reading all the emails. My heart goes out to you and your

husband. Continue posting and talk about anything and everything. Get it out and

others will respond!

Take care of you and God Bless You all!

lolxoxo444@...> wrote:

This is my first log on to the group...So hello fellow SURVIVOR'S!

Non BPD's are an exclusive club.. it's taken me years to discover

there's a name for what my husband and I are living with and that

there are other people going through this too! My daughter is my only

child and I've been prisoner to my love and denial. My own parents

and sisters have not seen the worst rage and physcial abuse and don't

want to believe there's a real problem. They consider it our " family

squables " at holiday's. That's made it easier for my daughter and I

to keep the denial going.

Since about 16 she's blamed and raged at and even a few times

physically attacked me. She is a high functioning BPD with a

stressful job in television. I recently gave up hope she would ever

find the right combination of medication or therapy to end this rage

so I cut off all communication with her. I know she takes med's for

depression, anxiety and panic attacks, but she will not share her

personal life with me, and I don't know her official diagnosis. I

suspect it's not BPD.

Two therapists I've consulted say she is very likely BPD or Bipolar.

I've read two books on BPD and she fits 5 of the 7 criteria for this

illness. Especially the Eggshell's book..described her, our life and

relationship. But how do I get her evalutaed for BPD? As only a Non

can truly understand...even in a friendly cycle... a diplomatic

suggestion that she be evaluated for BPD could start her rage.

Help Appreciated!

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help, @.... SEND

HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT RESPOND ONLINE.

Essential reading to help you feel better and understand the BP in your life

are:

• SWOE ( " Stop Walking on Eggshells”) and the SWOE Workbook (for everyone)

• HOPE FOR PARENTS

Call 888-35-SHELL () to order your copies.

From Randi Kreger, Owner of BPDCentral and the WTO Online Community

[Guest guest]

Milena

You have hit the nail on the head. Clinginess is definitely a

characteristic.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Milena

My daughter was self assured and stubborn in her ways all thru high school.

She didn't start being a follower until the summer after graduation and thru

college and now. And each year, it got worse. But to this day, she is

still blaming me. The topic came up last night that she wasn't popular witrh

boys (even though she is and was beautiful) in high school and college (now

she

dormed or had her own apt all thru college). But she said it was my fault

because I was too overly protective. I said, " How can this be my fault when

you dormed? " and she said, :It just was " . Once again, I shook my head and

told her I was going home. There is no reasoning with unreasonableness.

She has recently told me it is all my fault that she ends up with people

like Will.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Thank you all so much for being there! When I first noticed her symptoms at

17ish there was no support or awareness for this, especially in Texas. The

psychologist I took her to in Hou at the time, interviewed us together and then

her separately and when they came out, he told me not to bring her back! He gave

me no alternatives and no reason for the decision. He obviously had not herard

of BPD! Daughter was very pleased with herself for outsmarting the psych! Within

a year she left home for school and the intermitent symptoms progressed but I

lost any control over her. I only found out about BPD recently. If I'd only

known when she was still at home!

Toni P hephzeba2001@...> wrote: Debbie is right on here. Be aware that

as you set and keep your boundaries your daughter will react and things may get

worse for her. This may help her see that she needs help, may even get the

attention of other people around her. It might hurt, but it may well be the only

way to get her help and proctect yourself.

JM2C,

Toni

funnygirl1154@... wrote:

In a message dated 5/29/2006 4:55:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lolxoxo444@... writes:

But how do I get her evalutaed for BPD? As only a Non

can truly understand...even in a friendly cycle... a diplomatic

suggestion that she be evaluated for BPD could start her rage.

Help Appreciated!

Hello and welcome to our group! You will find some good advice here

and get some great support from a bunch of wonderful people. We can almost

visualize each other, and we have all grown so close. We all share a common

bond

and this group has been a godsend for most of us. I see your daughter is 38,

then there is really nothing you can do yourself to get her evaluated. Until

your daughter realizes that she truly has a problem, she won't get help.

If you can call this lucky, I guess I am in that my daughter started at age

13 and I was able to get her onto recovery by age 18. I had wished I had found

out about this site earlier, but fortunately did in about the 3d year of her

behaviors. Until then, I was pretty much at a loss, as you are now. But I

was able to do things for her as she was not yet an adult. And even then, ran

into some brickwalls, even though she was a minor, she didn't have to

participate if she didn't want to. I wish you luck, remember to take care of

yourself

first, do not enable her and her behaviors. She's a big girl, she is going to

have to tackle this one on her own, but make sure you encourage her efforts

and let her know you love her. Set boundaries for yourself, letting her know

what behaviors you will and will not tolerate from her.

Hugs,

DebbieL

[Guest guest]

Debbie,

Thanks for listening and caring. I only wish there had been this type of

awareness and support when I my daughters symptoms first surfaced at 17ish. The

first psych I took her to interviewed us together then her separately and

afterwards told me not to bring her back! And gave me no alternative route.

Daughter was pleased with herself for outsmarting the psych. I guess he had

never heard of BPD! It was 21 years ago and paych was not even covered on lots

of insurance plans! Must look to future and keep trying. Thanks again.

funnygirl1154@... wrote:

In a message dated 5/29/2006 4:55:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lolxoxo444@... writes:

But how do I get her evalutaed for BPD? As only a Non

can truly understand...even in a friendly cycle... a diplomatic

suggestion that she be evaluated for BPD could start her rage.

Help Appreciated!

Hello and welcome to our group! You will find some good advice here

and get some great support from a bunch of wonderful people. We can almost

visualize each other, and we have all grown so close. We all share a common

bond

and this group has been a godsend for most of us. I see your daughter is 38,

then there is really nothing you can do yourself to get her evaluated. Until

your daughter realizes that she truly has a problem, she won't get help.

If you can call this lucky, I guess I am in that my daughter started at age

13 and I was able to get her onto recovery by age 18. I had wished I had found

out about this site earlier, but fortunately did in about the 3d year of her

behaviors. Until then, I was pretty much at a loss, as you are now. But I

was able to do things for her as she was not yet an adult. And even then, ran

into some brickwalls, even though she was a minor, she didn't have to

participate if she didn't want to. I wish you luck, remember to take care of

yourself

first, do not enable her and her behaviors. She's a big girl, she is going to

have to tackle this one on her own, but make sure you encourage her efforts

and let her know you love her. Set boundaries for yourself, letting her know

what behaviors you will and will not tolerate from her.

Hugs,

DebbieL

[Guest guest]

To :

I will re read your letter and respond soon. My own lap top is down and I'm

borrowing this one. We have a lot in common. I too was a single mother when my

daughter's symptoms started and I can really relate! More later..

patricia atcheson connect4love@...> wrote:

,

I'm sorry that I haven't responded sooner as I hear you loud and clear! I

KNOW exactly what you mean. It's extremely hard and it hurts! I am new on this

site too.

My daughter is 17yrs old and I'm a single parent and have been for most of her

life.

I will share with you that my daughter has had an awful lot of very bad things

happen to her starting from 4 yrs old and continued. I certainly can understand

why she's so angry but these things just brought her full blown into BPD, which

I've been told that is almost always secondary to something else such as

Bipolar. She just started having violent rages back in Sept '05 but I rarely

saw them. Think her boyfriend took the brunt of them. Since he broke up with

her approx. 4 weeks ago, she has had about 5 violent rages, breaking things,

hitting the large front window with her fists and other things, throwing and

breaking things as well as threatening me. At first, I just hurt so much not

knowing what was wrong with my child. I've tried so hard to give her alot of

love, trying to make up for the cruel ways of other adults in her life. I am so

grateful that a relative gave me alot of info on BPD that Oliver sells. I

knew immediately that she had this. Finally,

with the support and all the postings on this site, along with other material

and support groups such as Alanon (for friends & families that have a problem

with someone's drinking/ addictive behavior), NarAnon (for the same but drugs)

and the newest, Shadow Voices (for people that have someone in their life with a

mental illness), I have learned alot and came to realize that " I " had to change

my behavior, my reactions AND though she is ill, STOP TAKING HER ABUSE! So far,

for alittle over a week, I believe........things have been much calmer!!!! It

was really hard for me the 1st time but each time it got easier that I no longer

have a problem with calling the police. I had to show her that " I " wasn't going

to take the abuse and allow her to scare me and raise my blood pressure! The

last time I called 911, she had not gone into a really violent episode yet but I

thought she was going too and 2 cop cars came with their sirens going. I know

they must have thought that I was

crazy when they got here but the time before when she was extremely violent and

scared me, they took 25 minutes so......... Anyway, she was in the bathroom when

I called and I talked low on my cell phone. I had my back to her and was on my

computer too so she had no idea. When they came to the door they stuck their

heads in, said " Police " and she grabbed her head with both hands and was in

shock and " she " was scared. I explained what she was doing and one of them took

me outside and asked me if she was bipolar. I took someone's advice on here and

said yes as they know what that is and their are so many similar traits.

Anyway, when the other came out they both told me that if I need them to call

them again. I then left the house though she had locked me out to make me

believe she was going to hurt herself but I could see she using this to

manipulate me which bpd's are very good at if you let them get away with it!

An hour later I called her and left a message on her cell phone that I

wouldn't be home until later as I had a call from a distressed cousin dealing

with the same thing with her adult daughter and was going over to see her and

then I told her that I loved her with all my heart but that I was going to take

her abusive behaviors anymore and no one should! Then, later I also told her

that the money that I have all too willingly given her, she'd have to earn as

that's the way life is. You must EARN your money and it was going to be the same

for her. I've come to realize that this is the best way to help her also. It

was as if she felt safe, more secure and loved after I did all of this. Wow!

huh?!

Well, your daughter is an adult now and what I've been told, until she hurts

bad enough, she won't get help or accept it. The 1st most important thing that

I've learned is to take care of me! That will teach her the most and NOT to take

her abuse and to stick to 100percent of whatever I say! I don't know if your

daughter is dangerous but I have to tell you that you MUST keep yourself safe

foremost, whatever you have to do, do it! You can cry about it later whatever

steps you take but that is something she must learn. YOU WONT TAKE IT. It's hard

but it teaches alot no matter what it seems at the time not to mention how

strong it can make you. At first, I actually thought that people didn't love

their children as I do mine but now I realize that's not the case

I highly recommend Alanon group meetings. I read on this bpdcentral site that

bpd is also known as the " Addictive personality " and that hurt because I know

their is history in her family of alcoholism. So, bottomline, being the same,

Alanon meetings on a regular basis gives me the extra strength I need to be able

to live with this in my daughter and know there's hope but it all must begin

with me. ME changing my reactions and taking care of me. Her having to suffer

the consequences of her actions.

I apologize for going on and on but I do hear you and your pain and identify

with it as we all do on here. I'm sure others have posted messages for you as I

am way behind in reading all the emails. My heart goes out to you and your

husband. Continue posting and talk about anything and everything. Get it out and

others will respond!

Take care of you and God Bless You all!

lolxoxo444@...> wrote:

This is my first log on to the group...So hello fellow SURVIVOR'S!

Non BPD's are an exclusive club.. it's taken me years to discover

there's a name for what my husband and I are living with and that

there are other people going through this too! My daughter is my only

child and I've been prisoner to my love and denial. My own parents

and sisters have not seen the worst rage and physcial abuse and don't

want to believe there's a real problem. They consider it our " family

squables " at holiday's. That's made it easier for my daughter and I

to keep the denial going.

Since about 16 she's blamed and raged at and even a few times

physically attacked me. She is a high functioning BPD with a

stressful job in television. I recently gave up hope she would ever

find the right combination of medication or therapy to end this rage

so I cut off all communication with her. I know she takes med's for

depression, anxiety and panic attacks, but she will not share her

personal life with me, and I don't know her official diagnosis. I

suspect it's not BPD.

Two therapists I've consulted say she is very likely BPD or Bipolar.

I've read two books on BPD and she fits 5 of the 7 criteria for this

illness. Especially the Eggshell's book..described her, our life and

relationship. But how do I get her evalutaed for BPD? As only a Non

can truly understand...even in a friendly cycle... a diplomatic

suggestion that she be evaluated for BPD could start her rage.

Help Appreciated!

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help, @.... SEND

HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT RESPOND ONLINE.

Essential reading to help you feel better and understand the BP in your life

are:

• SWOE ( " Stop Walking on Eggshells”) and the SWOE Workbook (for everyone)

• HOPE FOR PARENTS

Call 888-35-SHELL () to order your copies.

From Randi Kreger, Owner of BPDCentral and the WTO Online Community

[Guest guest]

Summer Sunderland shadoweve@... wrote:

" My adult daughter won't share her life with me anymore. I am no longer

privy to her experiences and we have lost the closness that I thought

we once had. Perhaps it was never there and I was deluding myself in

thinking it was.... "

My daughter always shared with me (not everything, but lots). She also cc-ed

me on some of her emails, even to guys. Sometime it was downright uncomfortable.

Of course I was pleased and offered her a plenty of advice. Now I think it was

more of the bpd than closeness; not knowing who she is, unable to make

decisions, clinging.

Sometimes I think that they are like vines - need a tree trunk to wind around

and support them.

Milena

Summer Sunderland shadoweve@...> wrote:

Hi ,

(I forgot I am not supposed to include the original post-I dont know

how everybody remembers what we are talking about but okay....)

My adult daughter won't share her life with me anymore. I am no longer

privy to her experiences and we have lost the closness that I thought

we once had. Perhaps it was never there and I was deluding myself in

thinking it was....

shanara

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help, @.... SEND

HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT RESPOND ONLINE.

Essential reading to help you feel better and understand the BP in your life

are:

• SWOE ( " Stop Walking on Eggshells”) and the SWOE Workbook (for everyone)

• HOPE FOR PARENTS

Call 888-35-SHELL () to order your copies.

From Randi Kreger, Owner of BPDCentral and the WTO Online Community

[Guest guest]

:

I just reread your letter and it has so much meaning for me. After living with

this disease for 22 years and not knowing it was a specific illness or what to

call it and no one else in my family (besides her step father) ever saw the

rages and blaming or knows anything about this illness and they don't believe

the hell we go through.. now...

finally FRIENDS who understand!! It's wonderful! Like finding a group of

angels on the internet! Love you all...

patricia atcheson connect4love@...> wrote:

,

I'm sorry that I haven't responded sooner as I hear you loud and clear! I

KNOW exactly what you mean. It's extremely hard and it hurts! I am new on this

site too.

My daughter is 17yrs old and I'm a single parent and have been for most of her

life.

I will share with you that my daughter has had an awful lot of very bad things

happen to her starting from 4 yrs old and continued. I certainly can understand

why she's so angry but these things just brought her full blown into BPD, which

I've been told that is almost always secondary to something else such as

Bipolar. She just started having violent rages back in Sept '05 but I rarely

saw them. Think her boyfriend took the brunt of them. Since he broke up with

her approx. 4 weeks ago, she has had about 5 violent rages, breaking things,

hitting the large front window with her fists and other things, throwing and

breaking things as well as threatening me. At first, I just hurt so much not

knowing what was wrong with my child. I've tried so hard to give her alot of

love, trying to make up for the cruel ways of other adults in her life. I am so

grateful that a relative gave me alot of info on BPD that Oliver sells. I

knew immediately that she had this. Finally,

with the support and all the postings on this site, along with other material

and support groups such as Alanon (for friends & families that have a problem

with someone's drinking/ addictive behavior), NarAnon (for the same but drugs)

and the newest, Shadow Voices (for people that have someone in their life with a

mental illness), I have learned alot and came to realize that " I " had to change

my behavior, my reactions AND though she is ill, STOP TAKING HER ABUSE! So far,

for alittle over a week, I believe........things have been much calmer!!!! It

was really hard for me the 1st time but each time it got easier that I no longer

have a problem with calling the police. I had to show her that " I " wasn't going

to take the abuse and allow her to scare me and raise my blood pressure! The

last time I called 911, she had not gone into a really violent episode yet but I

thought she was going too and 2 cop cars came with their sirens going. I know

they must have thought that I was

crazy when they got here but the time before when she was extremely violent and

scared me, they took 25 minutes so......... Anyway, she was in the bathroom when

I called and I talked low on my cell phone. I had my back to her and was on my

computer too so she had no idea. When they came to the door they stuck their

heads in, said " Police " and she grabbed her head with both hands and was in

shock and " she " was scared. I explained what she was doing and one of them took

me outside and asked me if she was bipolar. I took someone's advice on here and

said yes as they know what that is and their are so many similar traits.

Anyway, when the other came out they both told me that if I need them to call

them again. I then left the house though she had locked me out to make me

believe she was going to hurt herself but I could see she using this to

manipulate me which bpd's are very good at if you let them get away with it!

An hour later I called her and left a message on her cell phone that I

wouldn't be home until later as I had a call from a distressed cousin dealing

with the same thing with her adult daughter and was going over to see her and

then I told her that I loved her with all my heart but that I was going to take

her abusive behaviors anymore and no one should! Then, later I also told her

that the money that I have all too willingly given her, she'd have to earn as

that's the way life is. You must EARN your money and it was going to be the same

for her. I've come to realize that this is the best way to help her also. It

was as if she felt safe, more secure and loved after I did all of this. Wow!

huh?!

Well, your daughter is an adult now and what I've been told, until she hurts

bad enough, she won't get help or accept it. The 1st most important thing that

I've learned is to take care of me! That will teach her the most and NOT to take

her abuse and to stick to 100percent of whatever I say! I don't know if your

daughter is dangerous but I have to tell you that you MUST keep yourself safe

foremost, whatever you have to do, do it! You can cry about it later whatever

steps you take but that is something she must learn. YOU WONT TAKE IT. It's hard

but it teaches alot no matter what it seems at the time not to mention how

strong it can make you. At first, I actually thought that people didn't love

their children as I do mine but now I realize that's not the case

I highly recommend Alanon group meetings. I read on this bpdcentral site that

bpd is also known as the " Addictive personality " and that hurt because I know

their is history in her family of alcoholism. So, bottomline, being the same,

Alanon meetings on a regular basis gives me the extra strength I need to be able

to live with this in my daughter and know there's hope but it all must begin

with me. ME changing my reactions and taking care of me. Her having to suffer

the consequences of her actions.

I apologize for going on and on but I do hear you and your pain and identify

with it as we all do on here. I'm sure others have posted messages for you as I

am way behind in reading all the emails. My heart goes out to you and your

husband. Continue posting and talk about anything and everything. Get it out and

others will respond!

Take care of you and God Bless You all!

lolxoxo444@...> wrote:

This is my first log on to the group...So hello fellow SURVIVOR'S!

Non BPD's are an exclusive club.. it's taken me years to discover

there's a name for what my husband and I are living with and that

there are other people going through this too! My daughter is my only

child and I've been prisoner to my love and denial. My own parents

and sisters have not seen the worst rage and physcial abuse and don't

want to believe there's a real problem. They consider it our " family

squables " at holiday's. That's made it easier for my daughter and I

to keep the denial going.

Since about 16 she's blamed and raged at and even a few times

physically attacked me. She is a high functioning BPD with a

stressful job in television. I recently gave up hope she would ever

find the right combination of medication or therapy to end this rage

so I cut off all communication with her. I know she takes med's for

depression, anxiety and panic attacks, but she will not share her

personal life with me, and I don't know her official diagnosis. I

suspect it's not BPD.

Two therapists I've consulted say she is very likely BPD or Bipolar.

I've read two books on BPD and she fits 5 of the 7 criteria for this

illness. Especially the Eggshell's book..described her, our life and

relationship. But how do I get her evalutaed for BPD? As only a Non

can truly understand...even in a friendly cycle... a diplomatic

suggestion that she be evaluated for BPD could start her rage.

Help Appreciated!

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help, @.... SEND

HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT RESPOND ONLINE.

Essential reading to help you feel better and understand the BP in your life

are:

• SWOE ( " Stop Walking on Eggshells”) and the SWOE Workbook (for everyone)

• HOPE FOR PARENTS

Call 888-35-SHELL () to order your copies.

From Randi Kreger, Owner of BPDCentral and the WTO Online Community

[Guest guest]

Jean,

my daughter is stubborn, also. In all the wrong ways. She is more of a

" leaner " than follower.

I think your experience proves again it is a brain disorder/chemical

imbalance. Something happens during teen years that throws them off. We have

discussed here the environmental influences also and I believe they play the

role too.

Anyway; I feel I should visit with all of you in RI this summer so that we can

trash it in person.

Milena

cascorsam@... wrote:

Milena

My daughter was self assured and stubborn in her ways all thru high school.

She didn't start being a follower until the summer after graduation and thru

college and now. And each year, it got worse. But to this day, she is

still blaming me. The topic came up last night that she wasn't popular witrh

boys (even though she is and was beautiful) in high school and college (now

she

dormed or had her own apt all thru college). But she said it was my fault

because I was too overly protective. I said, " How can this be my fault when

you dormed? " and she said, :It just was " . Once again, I shook my head and

told her I was going home. There is no reasoning with unreasonableness.

She has recently told me it is all my fault that she ends up with people

like Will.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean & Milena:

From what I've read, also the neurologist told me, even my daughter asking me

something to the effect.. " Mom why can't I see like my friends can see.. the

likely results of my decisions and choices. " ... BPD is a condition of the body

as well as the mind. The neurotransmitters are firing differently for them than

for us. But if this is so...then why aren't they able to test for it??

Milena milenaoh@...> wrote:

Jean,

my daughter is stubborn, also. In all the wrong ways. She is more of a

" leaner " than follower.

I think your experience proves again it is a brain disorder/chemical

imbalance. Something happens during teen years that throws them off. We have

discussed here the environmental influences also and I believe they play the

role too.

Anyway; I feel I should visit with all of you in RI this summer so that we can

trash it in person.

Milena

cascorsam@... wrote:

Milena

My daughter was self assured and stubborn in her ways all thru high school.

She didn't start being a follower until the summer after graduation and thru

college and now. And each year, it got worse. But to this day, she is

still blaming me. The topic came up last night that she wasn't popular witrh

boys (even though she is and was beautiful) in high school and college (now

she

dormed or had her own apt all thru college). But she said it was my fault

because I was too overly protective. I said, " How can this be my fault when

you dormed? " and she said, :It just was " . Once again, I shook my head and

told her I was going home. There is no reasoning with unreasonableness.

She has recently told me it is all my fault that she ends up with people

like Will.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Carol:

Thank you for responding. We aren't speaking because the boundaries I've set

(and reset, and reset) were neglected. I have reached a breaking point. Like I

told the spychologist...something in my broke..and she said " hope? " and I said

yes, that's it. I finally have no more hope that this will change...and the only

way to avoid the abuse is to avoid her.

I thought maybe after a while she might learn through the family grapevine

I've been doing some " work " on myself. Then if she wants a relationship with me

she'll have to do the " work " too...

My daughter is like the others...she's very sharp, excellent recall, very

intelligent and intuitive.. She's a television producer, she can think at many

levels at the same time, But my husband jokes in private... He says.. " She could

piss off the Pope! " He means she could make a saint loose her or his temper. She

knows exactly what and when to say what will insult me the most or hurt me the

deepest. For example right after I've opened up to her again and begun to trust

her...she will ambush me... I call it a " psychic ambush " . Because I've learned

that even though it's intermittent and takes on many guises.. there is a ritual

to it:

She's waits until everything has been fine between us for a time..she knows my

heart is open and I'm not expecting disaster..she reaches out to bond with me..

I respond in kind ..as any mother would.. then out of no where she hits below

the belt....and if I make the mistake of reacting out of pain, she rages at me

and tells me to take responsibility for my anger!

It sounds evil and it seems like it too when it's happening to me.. and other

mothers may know what I mean. But there's another side to her that isn't like

that. She opens her home to foster dogs so they aren't put down, even when she

doesn't have the time for another dog, she gives her time to a camp for

terminally ill children and heads up the gift buying for needy families at her

company every year. Once when she was depressed I told her to " do something for

somebody else, quick " . She started volunteering and it has cut down on her

rages. She's not married and has no children. She can't sustain a relationship

and hasn't dated much for years.

and welcome.

You don't say how old your daughter is, although I assume she is an adult.

Once an adult, I don't think there is anything we can do to get them diagnosed.

They have to want counseling on their own to get help.

Are you speaking with her now, or is all form of communication still cut off? I

think if you set boundaries and what behaviors are acceptable or not, you can

still communicate with her. For example, as long as my daughter was raging or

mistreating me on the phone, I would tell her I could not speak to her. We could

continue our conversation when I was treated better. Over time, she caught on.

We don't speak frequently, we're not overly close, but we do have a relationship

and I know I am in her heart, too.

I have a new theory -- it's hard to be close to anyone who is hiding something

in their lives. If our kids could reach a point where they're open books and

like the fact we discover who they are, they could have better relationships.

But when they are afraid to share their friends with you, lifestyle or anything

of real importance, it's tough.

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " "

> This is my first log on to the group...So hello fellow SURVIVOR'S!

> Non BPD's are an exclusive club.. it's taken me years to discover

> there's a name for what my husband and I are living with and that

> there are other people going through this too! My daughter is my only

> child and I've been prisoner to my love and denial. My own parents

> and sisters have not seen the worst rage and physcial abuse and don't

> want to believe there's a real problem. They consider it our " family

> squables " at holiday's. That's made it easier for my daughter and I

> to keep the denial going.

>

> Since about 16 she's blamed and raged at and even a few times

> physically attacked me. She is a high functioning BPD with a

> stressful job in television. I recently gave up hope she would ever

> find the right combination of medication or therapy to end this rage

> so I cut off all communication with her. I know she takes med's for

> depression, anxiety and panic attacks, but she will not share her

> personal life with me, and I don't know her official diagnosis. I

> suspect it's not BPD.

>

> Two therapists I've consulted say she is very likely BPD or Bipolar.

> I've read two books on BPD and she fits 5 of the 7 criteria for this

> illness. Especially the Eggshell's book..described her, our life and

> relationship. But how do I get her evalutaed for BPD? As only a Non

> can truly understand...even in a friendly cycle... a diplomatic

> suggestion that she be evaluated for BPD could start her rage.

>

> Help Appreciated!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help, @....

SEND

> HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT RESPOND ONLINE.

>

> Essential reading to help you feel better and understand the BP in your life

> are:

>

> • SWOE ( " Stop Walking on Eggshells”) and the SWOE Workbook (for everyone)

> • HOPE FOR PARENTS

>

> Call 888-35-SHELL () to order your copies.

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner of BPDCentral and the WTO Online Community

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Milena....

We used to be much closer and she shared everything with me. It has

been only this past 6 months that she has cut me out.

About January this year, she ran over a neighborhood cat and was

telling me about it. She stopped the car, went back and gathered up

the cat and took it to a vet a few blocks away. Then she told them

in the vet office, " let me go close my car door " and she jumped into

her car and drove off, leaving the cat there and hoping the vet

would take over and be responsibile for the outcome..

I was stunned and told her that I felt she shirked her resposibility

and that while she did the right thing to take the cat to a vet, she

didn't follow through and that she should not have run off like

that.

Well, THAT WAS A HUGE MISTAKE on my part. She emailed me an hour

later and read me the riot act about exerting " moral judgement " on

her...etc, etc. The rage I had to re-read it a dozen times because I

just could't wrap my mind around how angry she was over our

conversation. I seem never to know what is okay to say and what

isn't.

I realized too late how badly I had messed up and since that time,

she has treated me like a stranger that she tolerates. I am sill

reeling over the intense turn around and her refusing to take my

phone calls. So now, to maintain what sanity I have left after all

the ups and downs over these past years......I am going to leave it

to her to decide when she is ready to contact me. But it's very hard.

shanara

> Hi ,

>

> (I forgot I am not supposed to include the original post-I dont

know

> how everybody remembers what we are talking about but okay....)

>

> My adult daughter won't share her life with me anymore. I am no

longer

> privy to her experiences and we have lost the closness that I

thought

> we once had. Perhaps it was never there and I was deluding myself

in

> thinking it was....

>

> shanara

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help, @...

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT RESPOND ONLINE.

>

> Essential reading to help you feel better and understand the BP in

your life are:

>

> • SWOE ( " Stop Walking on Eggshells " ) and the SWOE Workbook

(for everyone)

> • HOPE FOR PARENTS

>

> Call 888-35-SHELL () to order your copies.

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner of BPDCentral and the WTO Online

Community

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, I know this might sound stupid.....but I have noticed that

some of you had said your daughters are very beautiful. My daughter

is drop dead gorgeous (the modeling kind) and to be honest I wonder

if this has anything to do with causing BPD. She has always said

that being beautiful is a curse and she can't stand to be

complimented or told she is pretty. She even becomes touchy when

somebody DOES compliment her.

Shanara

>

> Milena

>

> My daughter was self assured and stubborn in her ways all thru

high school.

> She didn't start being a follower until the summer after

graduation and thru

> college and now. And each year, it got worse. But to this day,

she is

> still blaming me. The topic came up last night that she wasn't

popular witrh

> boys (even though she is and was beautiful) in high school and

college (now she

> dormed or had her own apt all thru college). But she said it was

my fault

> because I was too overly protective. I said, " How can this be my

fault when

> you dormed? " and she said, :It just was " . Once again, I shook

my head and

> told her I was going home. There is no reasoning with

unreasonableness.

>

> She has recently told me it is all my fault that she ends up with

people

> like Will.

>

> Jean

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, I know this might sound stupid.....but I have noticed that

some of you had said your daughters are very beautiful. My daughter

is drop dead gorgeous (the modeling kind) and to be honest I wonder

if this has anything to do with causing BPD. She has always said

that being beautiful is a curse and she can't stand to be

complimented or told she is pretty. She even becomes touchy when

somebody DOES compliment her.

Shanara

>

> Milena

>

> My daughter was self assured and stubborn in her ways all thru

high school.

> She didn't start being a follower until the summer after

graduation and thru

> college and now. And each year, it got worse. But to this day,

she is

> still blaming me. The topic came up last night that she wasn't

popular witrh

> boys (even though she is and was beautiful) in high school and

college (now she

> dormed or had her own apt all thru college). But she said it was

my fault

> because I was too overly protective. I said, " How can this be my

fault when

> you dormed? " and she said, :It just was " . Once again, I shook

my head and

> told her I was going home. There is no reasoning with

unreasonableness.

>

> She has recently told me it is all my fault that she ends up with

people

> like Will.

>

> Jean

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

My daughter is 22, and when we left her on her own after she left home our

counselor told us that BPD is a roller coaster ride, and we should NEVER get

on the roller coaster - not when things seem great, not when things seem

terrible. He said she needs someone who is always the same, stable, etc. The

problem is that once you change your reactions and loosen up, they expect

those new loose boundaries when they are in trouble too.

Anyway, that has been very difficult for us. Many times my husband and I

have argued about whether we should be this cold. About a year ago he came

around when he saw a really vitriolic email she sent us simply for not

sending her a birthday card. First he blamed it on me, then we went to the

counselor and worked through it, and he has come to understand this.

It's tough!

Helen

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of Randel

Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:32 PM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: Re: 38 yr old daughter Bipolar/BPD

Carol:

Thank you for responding. We aren't speaking because the boundaries I've

set (and reset, and reset) were neglected. I have reached a breaking point.

Like I told the spychologist...something in my broke..and she said " hope? "

and I said yes, that's it. I finally have no more hope that this will

change...and the only way to avoid the abuse is to avoid her.

I thought maybe after a while she might learn through the family grapevine

I've been doing some " work " on myself. Then if she wants a relationship with

me she'll have to do the " work " too...

My daughter is like the others...she's very sharp, excellent recall, very

intelligent and intuitive.. She's a television producer, she can think at

many levels at the same time, But my husband jokes in private... He

says.. " She could piss off the Pope! " He means she could make a saint loose

her or his temper. She knows exactly what and when to say what will insult

me the most or hurt me the deepest. For example right after I've opened up

to her again and begun to trust her...she will ambush me... I call it a

" psychic ambush " . Because I've learned that even though it's intermittent

and takes on many guises.. there is a ritual to it:

She's waits until everything has been fine between us for a time..she

knows my heart is open and I'm not expecting disaster..she reaches out to

bond with me.. I respond in kind ..as any mother would.. then out of no

where she hits below the belt....and if I make the mistake of reacting out

of pain, she rages at me and tells me to take responsibility for my anger!

It sounds evil and it seems like it too when it's happening to me.. and

other mothers may know what I mean. But there's another side to her that

isn't like that. She opens her home to foster dogs so they aren't put down,

even when she doesn't have the time for another dog, she gives her time to a

camp for terminally ill children and heads up the gift buying for needy

families at her company every year. Once when she was depressed I told her

to " do something for somebody else, quick " . She started volunteering and it

has cut down on her rages. She's not married and has no children. She can't

sustain a relationship and hasn't dated much for years.

and welcome.

You don't say how old your daughter is, although I assume she is an adult.

Once an adult, I don't think there is anything we can do to get them

diagnosed. They have to want counseling on their own to get help.

Are you speaking with her now, or is all form of communication still cut

off? I think if you set boundaries and what behaviors are acceptable or not,

you can still communicate with her. For example, as long as my daughter was

raging or mistreating me on the phone, I would tell her I could not speak to

her. We could continue our conversation when I was treated better. Over

time, she caught on. We don't speak frequently, we're not overly close, but

we do have a relationship and I know I am in her heart, too.

I have a new theory -- it's hard to be close to anyone who is hiding

something in their lives. If our kids could reach a point where they're open

books and like the fact we discover who they are, they could have better

relationships. But when they are afraid to share their friends with you,

lifestyle or anything of real importance, it's tough.

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " "

> This is my first log on to the group...So hello fellow SURVIVOR'S!

> Non BPD's are an exclusive club.. it's taken me years to discover

> there's a name for what my husband and I are living with and that

> there are other people going through this too! My daughter is my only

> child and I've been prisoner to my love and denial. My own parents

> and sisters have not seen the worst rage and physcial abuse and don't

> want to believe there's a real problem. They consider it our " family

> squables " at holiday's. That's made it easier for my daughter and I

> to keep the denial going.

>

> Since about 16 she's blamed and raged at and even a few times

> physically attacked me. She is a high functioning BPD with a

> stressful job in television. I recently gave up hope she would ever

> find the right combination of medication or therapy to end this rage

> so I cut off all communication with her. I know she takes med's for

> depression, anxiety and panic attacks, but she will not share her

> personal life with me, and I don't know her official diagnosis. I

> suspect it's not BPD.

>

> Two therapists I've consulted say she is very likely BPD or Bipolar.

> I've read two books on BPD and she fits 5 of the 7 criteria for this

> illness. Especially the Eggshell's book..described her, our life and

> relationship. But how do I get her evalutaed for BPD? As only a Non

> can truly understand...even in a friendly cycle... a diplomatic

> suggestion that she be evaluated for BPD could start her rage.

>

> Help Appreciated!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help,

@.... SEND

> HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT RESPOND ONLINE.

>

> Essential reading to help you feel better and understand the BP in your

life

> are:

>

> . SWOE ( " Stop Walking on Eggshells " ) and the SWOE Workbook (for everyone)

> . HOPE FOR PARENTS

>

> Call 888-35-SHELL () to order your copies.

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner of BPDCentral and the WTO Online Community

>

>

[Guest guest]

Helen:

My two sisters (in their 50's) have always thought my daughter was just

depressed and that I must be, at least in part, deliberately contributing to her

rage. At best my sisters might believe she is bipolar since we have that in our

family. They don't believe there is an illness like this - with anger toward the

Mom and don't believe me when I tell them she abuses me. I frequently avoid

family gatherings so things go off without a hitch but they think I'm the bad

guy because the daughter shows up.This increases my daughters determination to

punish me. Should I send my sisters the " Eggshells " book?

Helen Eby dheby@...> wrote:

,

My daughter is 22, and when we left her on her own after she left home our

counselor told us that BPD is a roller coaster ride, and we should NEVER get

on the roller coaster - not when things seem great, not when things seem

terrible. He said she needs someone who is always the same, stable, etc. The

problem is that once you change your reactions and loosen up, they expect

those new loose boundaries when they are in trouble too.

Anyway, that has been very difficult for us. Many times my husband and I

have argued about whether we should be this cold. About a year ago he came

around when he saw a really vitriolic email she sent us simply for not

sending her a birthday card. First he blamed it on me, then we went to the

counselor and worked through it, and he has come to understand this.

It's tough!

Helen

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of Randel

Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:32 PM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: Re: 38 yr old daughter Bipolar/BPD

Carol:

Thank you for responding. We aren't speaking because the boundaries I've

set (and reset, and reset) were neglected. I have reached a breaking point.

Like I told the spychologist...something in my broke..and she said " hope? "

and I said yes, that's it. I finally have no more hope that this will

change...and the only way to avoid the abuse is to avoid her.

I thought maybe after a while she might learn through the family grapevine

I've been doing some " work " on myself. Then if she wants a relationship with

me she'll have to do the " work " too...

My daughter is like the others...she's very sharp, excellent recall, very

intelligent and intuitive.. She's a television producer, she can think at

many levels at the same time, But my husband jokes in private... He

says.. " She could piss off the Pope! " He means she could make a saint loose

her or his temper. She knows exactly what and when to say what will insult

me the most or hurt me the deepest. For example right after I've opened up

to her again and begun to trust her...she will ambush me... I call it a

" psychic ambush " . Because I've learned that even though it's intermittent

and takes on many guises.. there is a ritual to it:

She's waits until everything has been fine between us for a time..she

knows my heart is open and I'm not expecting disaster..she reaches out to

bond with me.. I respond in kind ..as any mother would.. then out of no

where she hits below the belt....and if I make the mistake of reacting out

of pain, she rages at me and tells me to take responsibility for my anger!

It sounds evil and it seems like it too when it's happening to me.. and

other mothers may know what I mean. But there's another side to her that

isn't like that. She opens her home to foster dogs so they aren't put down,

even when she doesn't have the time for another dog, she gives her time to a

camp for terminally ill children and heads up the gift buying for needy

families at her company every year. Once when she was depressed I told her

to " do something for somebody else, quick " . She started volunteering and it

has cut down on her rages. She's not married and has no children. She can't

sustain a relationship and hasn't dated much for years.

and welcome.

You don't say how old your daughter is, although I assume she is an adult.

Once an adult, I don't think there is anything we can do to get them

diagnosed. They have to want counseling on their own to get help.

Are you speaking with her now, or is all form of communication still cut

off? I think if you set boundaries and what behaviors are acceptable or not,

you can still communicate with her. For example, as long as my daughter was

raging or mistreating me on the phone, I would tell her I could not speak to

her. We could continue our conversation when I was treated better. Over

time, she caught on. We don't speak frequently, we're not overly close, but

we do have a relationship and I know I am in her heart, too.

I have a new theory -- it's hard to be close to anyone who is hiding

something in their lives. If our kids could reach a point where they're open

books and like the fact we discover who they are, they could have better

relationships. But when they are afraid to share their friends with you,

lifestyle or anything of real importance, it's tough.

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " "

> This is my first log on to the group...So hello fellow SURVIVOR'S!

> Non BPD's are an exclusive club.. it's taken me years to discover

> there's a name for what my husband and I are living with and that

> there are other people going through this too! My daughter is my only

> child and I've been prisoner to my love and denial. My own parents

> and sisters have not seen the worst rage and physcial abuse and don't

> want to believe there's a real problem. They consider it our " family

> squables " at holiday's. That's made it easier for my daughter and I

> to keep the denial going.

>

> Since about 16 she's blamed and raged at and even a few times

> physically attacked me. She is a high functioning BPD with a

> stressful job in television. I recently gave up hope she would ever

> find the right combination of medication or therapy to end this rage

> so I cut off all communication with her. I know she takes med's for

> depression, anxiety and panic attacks, but she will not share her

> personal life with me, and I don't know her official diagnosis. I

> suspect it's not BPD.

>

> Two therapists I've consulted say she is very likely BPD or Bipolar.

> I've read two books on BPD and she fits 5 of the 7 criteria for this

> illness. Especially the Eggshell's book..described her, our life and

> relationship. But how do I get her evalutaed for BPD? As only a Non

> can truly understand...even in a friendly cycle... a diplomatic

> suggestion that she be evaluated for BPD could start her rage.

>

> Help Appreciated!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help,

@.... SEND

> HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT RESPOND ONLINE.

>

> Essential reading to help you feel better and understand the BP in your

life

> are:

>

> . SWOE ( " Stop Walking on Eggshells " ) and the SWOE Workbook (for everyone)

> . HOPE FOR PARENTS

>

> Call 888-35-SHELL () to order your copies.

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner of BPDCentral and the WTO Online Community

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , I don't think I welcomed you yet, sorry I have been a reader

lately because I haven't had time to respond to anyone much.

Your story is so like mine, I called the police for the first time last year

because of her raging. She's 19. The only thing that gave me get the strength

to do that was this group. After that scenario and identifying what I would

take and not take, things have been so different. Not perfect but much better.

My daughter is diagnosed bi-polar. A bad experience at 15 triggered it. It

does run in my family although it has been pretty hush hush. Mostly it has

been my cousins. My grandmother was supposedly schizophrenic but after

learning alot, I believe that she was probably bi-polar untreated causing

psychotic breaks. Anyways, the interesting thing is that not only me, but my

non-bi-polar cousin has a daughter that is similar to mine. I am not bi-polar

my have a serious anxiety disorder that fortunately has been treatable with

Paxil (a God send to me). Anyways, I was reading that when your cop episode

happened that you went to your cousin's whose daughter was going through a

similar thing. It has me wondering if perhaps you have a bi-polar gene in

there somewhere. Does your daughter take any medications for mood

stabilization? Living with a bi-polar individual isn't the easiest thing but

its what you do for yourself maintains the sanity.

patricia atcheson connect4love@...> wrote: ,

I'm sorry that I haven't responded sooner as I hear you loud and clear!

I KNOW exactly what you mean. It's extremely hard and it hurts! I am new on

this site too.

My daughter is 17yrs old and I'm a single parent and have been for most of

her life.

I will share with you that my daughter has had an awful lot of very bad

things happen to her starting from 4 yrs old and continued. I certainly can

understand why she's so angry but these things just brought her full blown into

BPD, which I've been told that is almost always secondary to something else

such as Bipolar. She just started having violent rages back in Sept '05 but I

rarely saw them. Think her boyfriend took the brunt of them. Since he broke

up with her approx. 4 weeks ago, she has had about 5 violent rages, breaking

things, hitting the large front window with her fists and other things,

throwing and breaking things as well as threatening me. At first, I just hurt

so much not knowing what was wrong with my child. I've tried so hard to give

her alot of love, trying to make up for the cruel ways of other adults in her

life. I am so grateful that a relative gave me alot of info on BPD that

Oliver sells. I knew immediately that she had

this. Finally,

with the support and all the postings on this site, along with other material

and support groups such as Alanon (for friends & families that have a problem

with someone's drinking/ addictive behavior), NarAnon (for the same but drugs)

and the newest, Shadow Voices (for people that have someone in their life with

a mental illness), I have learned alot and came to realize that " I " had to

change my behavior, my reactions AND though she is ill, STOP TAKING HER ABUSE!

So far, for alittle over a week, I believe........things have been much

calmer!!!! It was really hard for me the 1st time but each time it got easier

that I no longer have a problem with calling the police. I had to show her that

" I " wasn't going to take the abuse and allow her to scare me and raise my blood

pressure! The last time I called 911, she had not gone into a really violent

episode yet but I thought she was going too and 2 cop cars came with their

sirens going. I know they must have

thought that I was

crazy when they got here but the time before when she was extremely violent

and scared me, they took 25 minutes so......... Anyway, she was in the bathroom

when I called and I talked low on my cell phone. I had my back to her and was

on my computer too so she had no idea. When they came to the door they stuck

their heads in, said " Police " and she grabbed her head with both hands and was

in shock and " she " was scared. I explained what she was doing and one of them

took me outside and asked me if she was bipolar. I took someone's advice on

here and said yes as they know what that is and their are so many similar

traits. Anyway, when the other came out they both told me that if I need them

to call them again. I then left the house though she had locked me out to make

me believe she was going to hurt herself but I could see she using this to

manipulate me which bpd's are very good at if you let them get away with it!

An hour later I called her and left a message on her cell phone that I

wouldn't be home until later as I had a call from a distressed cousin dealing

with the same thing with her adult daughter and was going over to see her and

then I told her that I loved her with all my heart but that I was going to take

her abusive behaviors anymore and no one should! Then, later I also told her

that the money that I have all too willingly given her, she'd have to earn as

that's the way life is. You must EARN your money and it was going to be the

same for her. I've come to realize that this is the best way to help her also.

It was as if she felt safe, more secure and loved after I did all of this. Wow!

huh?!

Well, your daughter is an adult now and what I've been told, until she

hurts bad enough, she won't get help or accept it. The 1st most important thing

that I've learned is to take care of me! That will teach her the most and NOT

to take her abuse and to stick to 100percent of whatever I say! I don't know if

your daughter is dangerous but I have to tell you that you MUST keep yourself

safe foremost, whatever you have to do, do it! You can cry about it later

whatever steps you take but that is something she must learn. YOU WONT TAKE IT.

It's hard but it teaches alot no matter what it seems at the time not to

mention how strong it can make you. At first, I actually thought that people

didn't love their children as I do mine but now I realize that's not the case

I highly recommend Alanon group meetings. I read on this bpdcentral site

that bpd is also known as the " Addictive personality " and that hurt because I

know their is history in her family of alcoholism. So, bottomline, being the

same, Alanon meetings on a regular basis gives me the extra strength I need to

be able to live with this in my daughter and know there's hope but it all must

begin with me. ME changing my reactions and taking care of me. Her having to

suffer the consequences of her actions.

I apologize for going on and on but I do hear you and your pain and

identify with it as we all do on here. I'm sure others have posted messages

for you as I am way behind in reading all the emails. My heart goes out to you

and your husband. Continue posting and talk about anything and everything. Get

it out and others will respond!

Take care of you and God Bless You all!

lolxoxo444@...> wrote:

This is my first log on to the group...So hello fellow SURVIVOR'S!

Non BPD's are an exclusive club.. it's taken me years to discover

there's a name for what my husband and I are living with and that

there are other people going through this too! My daughter is my only

child and I've been prisoner to my love and denial. My own parents

and sisters have not seen the worst rage and physcial abuse and don't

want to believe there's a real problem. They consider it our " family

squables " at holiday's. That's made it easier for my daughter and I

to keep the denial going.

Since about 16 she's blamed and raged at and even a few times

physically attacked me. She is a high functioning BPD with a

stressful job in television. I recently gave up hope she would ever

find the right combination of medication or therapy to end this rage

so I cut off all communication with her. I know she takes med's for

depression, anxiety and panic attacks, but she will not share her

personal life with me, and I don't know her official diagnosis. I

suspect it's not BPD.

Two therapists I've consulted say she is very likely BPD or Bipolar.

I've read two books on BPD and she fits 5 of the 7 criteria for this

illness. Especially the Eggshell's book..described her, our life and

relationship. But how do I get her evalutaed for BPD? As only a Non

can truly understand...even in a friendly cycle... a diplomatic

suggestion that she be evaluated for BPD could start her rage.

Help Appreciated!

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help, @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT RESPOND ONLINE.

Essential reading to help you feel better and understand the BP in your life

are:

• SWOE ( " Stop Walking on Eggshells”) and the SWOE Workbook (for everyone)

• HOPE FOR PARENTS

Call 888-35-SHELL () to order your copies.

From Randi Kreger, Owner of BPDCentral and the WTO Online Community

[Guest guest]

Hello, i receive e-mails and really enjoy reading them and learning. I

also have an adult child(25) diagnosed with BPD and Bipolar, but I don't know to

go about being able to post my concerns or share experiences with others and the

feedback from doing so. Can you please help me, so I can join in the group?

thank-you so much for your time. I am in need of venting and sharing. Debbie

Summer Sunderland shadoweve@...> wrote: Okay, I know this might

sound stupid.....but I have noticed that

some of you had said your daughters are very beautiful. My daughter

is drop dead gorgeous (the modeling kind) and to be honest I wonder

if this has anything to do with causing BPD. She has always said

that being beautiful is a curse and she can't stand to be

complimented or told she is pretty. She even becomes touchy when

somebody DOES compliment her.

Shanara

>

> Milena

>

> My daughter was self assured and stubborn in her ways all thru

high school.

> She didn't start being a follower until the summer after

graduation and thru

> college and now. And each year, it got worse. But to this day,

she is

> still blaming me. The topic came up last night that she wasn't

popular witrh

> boys (even though she is and was beautiful) in high school and

college (now she

> dormed or had her own apt all thru college). But she said it was

my fault

> because I was too overly protective. I said, " How can this be my

fault when

> you dormed? " and she said, :It just was " . Once again, I shook

my head and

> told her I was going home. There is no reasoning with

unreasonableness.

>

> She has recently told me it is all my fault that she ends up with

people

> like Will.

>

> Jean

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I used to be embarassed by my daughter's behavior at family social events. No

more -- they can see for themselves how inappropriate some of her reactions are.

She's an adult (22) and I am not responsible for her words or actions. Not that

I ever really was. She was always a little different. As a wee child, I taught

her to say her please and thank yous, she basically refused. At least her

daughter is polite.

Carol

--------- Re: 38 yr old daughter Bipolar/BPD

>

>

> Carol:

> Thank you for responding. We aren't speaking because the boundaries I've

> set (and reset, and reset) were neglected. I have reached a breaking point.

> Like I told the spychologist...something in my broke..and she said " hope? "

> and I said yes, that's it. I finally have no more hope that this will

> change...and the only way to avoid the abuse is to avoid her.

>

> I thought maybe after a while she might learn through the family grapevine

> I've been doing some " work " on myself. Then if she wants a relationship with

> me she'll have to do the " work " too...

>

> My daughter is like the others...she's very sharp, excellent recall, very

> intelligent and intuitive.. She's a television producer, she can think at

> many levels at the same time, But my husband jokes in private... He

> says.. " She could piss off the Pope! " He means she could make a saint loose

> her or his temper. She knows exactly what and when to say what will insult

> me the most or hurt me the deepest. For example right after I've opened up

> to her again and begun to trust her...she will ambush me... I call it a

> " psychic ambush " . Because I've learned that even though it's intermittent

> and takes on many guises.. there is a ritual to it:

>

> She's waits until everything has been fine between us for a time..she

> knows my heart is open and I'm not expecting disaster..she reaches out to

> bond with me.. I respond in kind ..as any mother would.. then out of no

> where she hits below the belt....and if I make the mistake of reacting out

> of pain, she rages at me and tells me to take responsibility for my anger!

>

> It sounds evil and it seems like it too when it's happening to me.. and

> other mothers may know what I mean. But there's another side to her that

> isn't like that. She opens her home to foster dogs so they aren't put down,

> even when she doesn't have the time for another dog, she gives her time to a

> camp for terminally ill children and heads up the gift buying for needy

> families at her company every year. Once when she was depressed I told her

> to " do something for somebody else, quick " . She started volunteering and it

> has cut down on her rages. She's not married and has no children. She can't

> sustain a relationship and hasn't dated much for years.

>

>

>

> and welcome.

>

> You don't say how old your daughter is, although I assume she is an adult.

>

> Once an adult, I don't think there is anything we can do to get them

> diagnosed. They have to want counseling on their own to get help.

>

> Are you speaking with her now, or is all form of communication still cut

> off? I think if you set boundaries and what behaviors are acceptable or not,

> you can still communicate with her. For example, as long as my daughter was

> raging or mistreating me on the phone, I would tell her I could not speak to

> her. We could continue our conversation when I was treated better. Over

> time, she caught on. We don't speak frequently, we're not overly close, but

> we do have a relationship and I know I am in her heart, too.

>

> I have a new theory -- it's hard to be close to anyone who is hiding

> something in their lives. If our kids could reach a point where they're open

> books and like the fact we discover who they are, they could have better

> relationships. But when they are afraid to share their friends with you,

> lifestyle or anything of real importance, it's tough.

>

> Carol

>

> -------------- Original message --------------

> From: " "

>

> > This is my first log on to the group...So hello fellow SURVIVOR'S!

> > Non BPD's are an exclusive club.. it's taken me years to discover

> > there's a name for what my husband and I are living with and that

> > there are other people going through this too! My daughter is my only

> > child and I've been prisoner to my love and denial. My own parents

> > and sisters have not seen the worst rage and physcial abuse and don't

> > want to believe there's a real problem. They consider it our " family

> > squables " at holiday's. That's made it easier for my daughter and I

> > to keep the denial going.

> >

> > Since about 16 she's blamed and raged at and even a few times

> > physically attacked me. She is a high functioning BPD with a

> > stressful job in television. I recently gave up hope she would ever

> > find the right combination of medication or therapy to end this rage

> > so I cut off all communication with her. I know she takes med's for

> > depression, anxiety and panic attacks, but she will not share her

> > personal life with me, and I don't know her official diagnosis. I

> > suspect it's not BPD.

> >

> > Two therapists I've consulted say she is very likely BPD or Bipolar.

> > I've read two books on BPD and she fits 5 of the 7 criteria for this

> > illness. Especially the Eggshell's book..described her, our life and

> > relationship. But how do I get her evalutaed for BPD? As only a Non

> > can truly understand...even in a friendly cycle... a diplomatic

> > suggestion that she be evaluated for BPD could start her rage.

> >

> > Help Appreciated!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help,

> @.... SEND

> > HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT RESPOND ONLINE.

> >

> > Essential reading to help you feel better and understand the BP in your

> life

> > are:

> >

> > . SWOE ( " Stop Walking on Eggshells " ) and the SWOE Workbook (for everyone)

> > . HOPE FOR PARENTS

> >

> > Call 888-35-SHELL () to order your copies.

> >

> > From Randi Kreger, Owner of BPDCentral and the WTO Online Community

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

I honestly don't think folks will understand this until they've lived with

the situation for a few months, full time. It took my husband years to see

it, and he lived in the same house! It just seems to others that we are

simply badmouthing our kids, when that is not the case.

I think if they are not open to thinking of this, the book may not help a

lot. Maybe in private conversation you can discern that better, though. You

never know where a personal conversation can lead! It may help!

Helen

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of Randel

Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 8:03 AM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: RE: 38 yr old daughter Bipolar/BPD

Helen:

My two sisters (in their 50's) have always thought my daughter was just

depressed and that I must be, at least in part, deliberately contributing to

her rage. At best my sisters might believe she is bipolar since we have that

in our family. They don't believe there is an illness like this - with anger

toward the Mom and don't believe me when I tell them she abuses me. I

frequently avoid family gatherings so things go off without a hitch but they

think I'm the bad guy because the daughter shows up.This increases my

daughters determination to punish me. Should I send my sisters the

" Eggshells " book?

Helen Eby dheby@...> wrote:

,

My daughter is 22, and when we left her on her own after she left home our

counselor told us that BPD is a roller coaster ride, and we should NEVER get

on the roller coaster - not when things seem great, not when things seem

terrible. He said she needs someone who is always the same, stable, etc. The

problem is that once you change your reactions and loosen up, they expect

those new loose boundaries when they are in trouble too.

Anyway, that has been very difficult for us. Many times my husband and I

have argued about whether we should be this cold. About a year ago he came

around when he saw a really vitriolic email she sent us simply for not

sending her a birthday card. First he blamed it on me, then we went to the

counselor and worked through it, and he has come to understand this.

It's tough!

Helen

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of Randel

Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:32 PM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: Re: 38 yr old daughter Bipolar/BPD

Carol:

Thank you for responding. We aren't speaking because the boundaries I've

set (and reset, and reset) were neglected. I have reached a breaking point.

Like I told the spychologist...something in my broke..and she said " hope? "

and I said yes, that's it. I finally have no more hope that this will

change...and the only way to avoid the abuse is to avoid her.

I thought maybe after a while she might learn through the family grapevine

I've been doing some " work " on myself. Then if she wants a relationship with

me she'll have to do the " work " too...

My daughter is like the others...she's very sharp, excellent recall, very

intelligent and intuitive.. She's a television producer, she can think at

many levels at the same time, But my husband jokes in private... He

says.. " She could piss off the Pope! " He means she could make a saint loose

her or his temper. She knows exactly what and when to say what will insult

me the most or hurt me the deepest. For example right after I've opened up

to her again and begun to trust her...she will ambush me... I call it a

" psychic ambush " . Because I've learned that even though it's intermittent

and takes on many guises.. there is a ritual to it:

She's waits until everything has been fine between us for a time..she

knows my heart is open and I'm not expecting disaster..she reaches out to

bond with me.. I respond in kind ..as any mother would.. then out of no

where she hits below the belt....and if I make the mistake of reacting out

of pain, she rages at me and tells me to take responsibility for my anger!

It sounds evil and it seems like it too when it's happening to me.. and

other mothers may know what I mean. But there's another side to her that

isn't like that. She opens her home to foster dogs so they aren't put down,

even when she doesn't have the time for another dog, she gives her time to a

camp for terminally ill children and heads up the gift buying for needy

families at her company every year. Once when she was depressed I told her

to " do something for somebody else, quick " . She started volunteering and it

has cut down on her rages. She's not married and has no children. She can't

sustain a relationship and hasn't dated much for years.

and welcome.

You don't say how old your daughter is, although I assume she is an adult.

Once an adult, I don't think there is anything we can do to get them

diagnosed. They have to want counseling on their own to get help.

Are you speaking with her now, or is all form of communication still cut

off? I think if you set boundaries and what behaviors are acceptable or not,

you can still communicate with her. For example, as long as my daughter was

raging or mistreating me on the phone, I would tell her I could not speak to

her. We could continue our conversation when I was treated better. Over

time, she caught on. We don't speak frequently, we're not overly close, but

we do have a relationship and I know I am in her heart, too.

I have a new theory -- it's hard to be close to anyone who is hiding

something in their lives. If our kids could reach a point where they're open

books and like the fact we discover who they are, they could have better

relationships. But when they are afraid to share their friends with you,

lifestyle or anything of real importance, it's tough.

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " "

> This is my first log on to the group...So hello fellow SURVIVOR'S!

> Non BPD's are an exclusive club.. it's taken me years to discover

> there's a name for what my husband and I are living with and that

> there are other people going through this too! My daughter is my only

> child and I've been prisoner to my love and denial. My own parents

> and sisters have not seen the worst rage and physcial abuse and don't

> want to believe there's a real problem. They consider it our " family

> squables " at holiday's. That's made it easier for my daughter and I

> to keep the denial going.

>

> Since about 16 she's blamed and raged at and even a few times

> physically attacked me. She is a high functioning BPD with a

> stressful job in television. I recently gave up hope she would ever

> find the right combination of medication or therapy to end this rage

> so I cut off all communication with her. I know she takes med's for

> depression, anxiety and panic attacks, but she will not share her

> personal life with me, and I don't know her official diagnosis. I

> suspect it's not BPD.

>

> Two therapists I've consulted say she is very likely BPD or Bipolar.

> I've read two books on BPD and she fits 5 of the 7 criteria for this

> illness. Especially the Eggshell's book..described her, our life and

> relationship. But how do I get her evalutaed for BPD? As only a Non

> can truly understand...even in a friendly cycle... a diplomatic

> suggestion that she be evaluated for BPD could start her rage.

>

> Help Appreciated!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help,

@.... SEND

> HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT RESPOND ONLINE.

>

> Essential reading to help you feel better and understand the BP in your

life

> are:

>

> . SWOE ( " Stop Walking on Eggshells " ) and the SWOE Workbook (for everyone)

> . HOPE FOR PARENTS

>

> Call 888-35-SHELL () to order your copies.

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner of BPDCentral and the WTO Online Community

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/31/2006 5:17:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,

milenaoh@... writes:

Anyway; I feel I should visit with all of you in RI this summer so that we

can trash it in person.

Milena

This would be awesome, Milena! A whole bunch of us, could we all possibly

get a word in edgewise????????? LOL

DebbieL