Re: Matt Foley the TTFD motivator?

[Guest guest]

Dog gone it. What exactly is the motivation for all of this migratory attacking

of Andy here? Is it his new books? Lookaneubuchaphobia has been going around

lately!

Children with starving brains? Autism is not a result of a petrochemical

deficiency in the diet of any kind. Trust me on this.

At first I thought that maybe you were insecure people trying to get a scholarly

man like Andy to rubber stamp your interventions. When he refused to compromise

his integrity you started trashing him in a very smug way.

Now that you've posted a promise to fade back and regained our interest in your

posts, you catch the TTFD fever again. This promise you made was just to set us

up for more. Now escalate matters including dragging a poor innocent bio guy

into the fray.

What exactly is your motivation?

Are you all trashers DAN! doctors and nurses using fake screen names so you can

try to punk Andy because he's trying to clue families into what a complete rip

off you are and how dangerous blind faith in " sidestream " medicine can be?

Maybe all of you trashers that have popped in here own TTFD factories and you

are worried that sales are down. Maybe you're here because the TTFD junk doesn't

work and you are here looking for more " cash cows " to milk? Fresh meat to

exploit. s to experiment on.

Maybe the TTFD factories have given your practices a cash rebate to prescribe it

as much as you can? What kind of a deal can you get to sell TTFD these days?

Maybe we should hang a bottle of TTFD on a tall stick, lift it up high above the

camp, and force all to look upon it and when we do we will all be healed?

Would that make you happy?

Re: [ ] Molecular size and pretend experts

Andy,

Perhaps listmates doubtful about the credentials or opinions of the

biochemist Rose found could check with biochemists in their own local

universities and see what they also would say when they read what your have

written to listmates here.

Some molecules that are mercaptans have specialized properties that make

them useful in one context and a problem in another. If you look up

mercaptans in an industrial setting where they are trying to find chemicals

that will do something extraordinary and maybe dangerous when used in large

quantity, they might describe a mercaptan that you wouldn't want in your

body in a large quantity, but their properties cannot be ascribed to

dissimilar mercaptans.

What you are doing as far as logic is concerned is similar to making the

statement, " All dogs attack people and are therefore extremely

dangerous " because you know someone who raises attack dogs and all his

dogs are dangerous.

Andy, your friend is probably working on some thiol that IS quite potent

and not good for people to ingest in large quantities.. Just because

someone has made a chemical with an -SH group that has those properties, it

doesn't mean that his mercaptan or the ones he knows about are anything

like TTFD or its metabolites.

Here is a list of ordinary mercaptans from a science site for children

which does define the term mercaptan as well. This isn't rocket science.

http://www.all-science-fair-projects.com/science_fair_projects_encyclopedia/

Mercaptans

From this website's list of biological mercaptans, let's just talk about

two. People certainly must have the RIGHT quantity of cysteine and

glutathione in their bodies. Those are two mercaptans that this site

lists, and a quick look at Medline will confirm the extent to which

biologists work with and study these chemicals all the time. There are

63,000 articles on glutathione and 66,000 on cysteine in medline. That's

just two mercaptans. How about Coenzyme A? 33,000 articles....Does that

warrant saying: " Mercaptans are not generally used for biological

applications " ? Have you any idea how many articles there are on using

N-acetyl cysteine therapeutically?

And while we are speaking of structures and molecular size, Andy, why, when

you were talking to Gaynelle, did you mention the following compounds and

say they were structually similar to TTFD?

Your choices:

compound composition molecular

weight CRC #

cyclohexyl mercaptan C6H11SH MW 116 4480

pentanethiol CH3(CH2)4SH MW 104

8844

I've put the CRC code for your selected mercaptans to the right of their

molecular weight. Maybe others would like to look them up in the CRC

Handbook.

Here is the same information on TTFD:

TTFD C17H26N4O3S2 MW 399

How can something with a molecular weight of 399 be similar to two

compounds about four times smaller by weight?

The two mercaptans you selected out of the huge world of mercaptans to

compare to TTFD are both apparently used as food flavorings, as these lists

from Australia and Japan testify.

www.foodstandards.gov.au/_srcfiles/ACF24C2.pdf

http://www.ffcr.or.jp/zaidan/FFCRHOME.nsf/0/5181e5ff9b532b0c49256d720027ee2f

This second reference has a nice LONG list of mercaptans (thiols) that are

also used as food flavorings. Go take a look. From what is said on that

site, it sounds like all of the mercaptans in their list were subject to

studies of their toxicity from ingestion, and they passed the test and are

allowed to be used in foods.

What about the benfotiamine you've been suggesting in TTFD's stead? What

is its composition? It is certainly " closer " to TTFD, and in fact, it has

some similar properties, but the two ways to get thiamine across cell

membranes also have some significant differences.

compound composition molecular

weight CRC #

Benfotiamine C19H23N4O6PS MW 466

TTFD C17H26N4O3S2 MW 399

I've also put below what the science website says about a small mercaptan,

more in the class of the molecules you proposed as similar to

TTFD.. Methanethiol is what gives cheddar cheese its flavor, but it can

look dangerous on a Safety Data Sheet when you get exposed to too much at

once, but it is a very common chemical in the gut, as the articles below

say quite clearly. All chemicals that are physiological can be dangerous

if they get too far out of their ordinary proportion to other molecules in

the sites of the body where they have activity. The gut with its bacteria

in it is a capable site to handle methanethiol, for instance, but at times,

when the flora and our enterocytes are falling behind in their duties, and

we have that rotten egg smell to remind us what isn't happening as it should.

Archive reference:

Gaynelle said:

>> So, with that in mind, are there articles, abstracts, or

> >other references that you could cite that would provide evidence that

> >TTFD indeed is harmful, as you suggest?

To which Andy replied:

> Go find the MSDS of a bunch of structurally similar mercaptans.

This

> is easy to do on the web if you know enough chemistry to name

them.

> They are all neurotoxic (among other bad habits), cyclohexyl

mercaptan

> is known to damage the liver and 2 pentanethiol (also known as 2

> mercaptopentane)

At 03:46 AM 11/18/2004 +0000, you wrote:

>I am also quite curious about this " mercaptan expert " being a

> " biochemist " and working in a biochemically oriented company.

>Mercaptans are not generally used for biological applications because

>they are toxic - I have a friend who works for Pennwalt making them and

>I do know the industry, the products, and their uses.

>

>Andy . . .. . . . . . .

Methyl mercaptan

Methyl mercaptan is a colorless gas with a smell like rotten cabbage. It is

a natural substance found in the blood, brain, and other tissues of people

and animals. It is released from animal feces. It occurs naturally in

certain foods, such as some nuts and cheese. The chemical formula for

methyl mercapatan is CH3SH.

Methyl mercaptan is released from decaying organic matter in marshes and is

present in the natural gas of certain regions in the United States, in coal

tar, and in some crude oils.

The United States material safety data sheet (MSDS) lists methyl mercaptan

as a colorless, flammable, gas with an extremely strong and repulsive

smell. At very high concentrations it is highly toxic and affects the

central nervous system. Its penetrating odor provides warning at dangerous

concentrations.

Uses

Methyl mercaptan is primarily used as an odorant to add warning properties

to propane and natural gas used as fuel. Propane by itself is odorless, as

are many sources of natural gas. Methyl mercaptan is added for safety

reasons so that gas leaks are readily noted by anyone present due to the

odor. Mercaptan vaporizes readily and is odiforous enough that only small

quantities need be used.

For propane, methyl mercaptan liquid is mixed with liquid propane by the

refinery. The mercaptan remains in solution in the desired concentration as

the propane is piped and trucked through the distribution system until it

is stored in the tank from which it will be used. Propane tanks are usually

configured to withdraw vapor rather than liquid, and since the boiling

point of methy mercaptan is somewhat higher than that of propane (and since

its vapor pressure is lower), mercaptan becomes more concentrated in the

tank as vapor is withdrawn. For this reason, even minute leaks in a piping

system connected to a nearly-empty tank produce the characteristic odor,

especially if much of the propane was withdrawn at low temperatures.

In natural gas systems, methyl mercaptan is injected into the distribution

piping, usually within several miles or less of the point of use. Injection

equipment and a tank of methyl mercaptan can be seen at the master meter

point outside many cities. Mercaptan tanks are similar in construction to

tanks used for propane and anhydrous ammonia.

Because of its reactivity, mercaptan can be removed from the gas before it

reaches the point of use, or after leaking out of piping. It can react with

or be adsorbed by metallic pipe materials, particularly when corroded, and

will bind to soil particles. Explosions have occurred where underground gas

leaks went unnoticed because the mercaptan was filtered out by the soil.

Methyl mercaptan is also manufactured for use in the plastics industry, as

a precursor in the manufacture of pesticides, and as a jet fuel additive.

It is also released as a decay product of wood in pulp mill s.

From:

Diversity of Sulfur Compound Production in Lactic Acid Bacteria 1

K. E. Seefeldt and B. C. Weimer

Center for Microbe Detection and Physiology

Western Dairy Center

Department of Nutrition and Food Sciences

Utah State University, Logan 84322-8700

ABSTRACT

Volatile sulfur compounds such as methanethiol, di-methyl

disulfide, dimethyl trisulfide, and hydrogen sul-fide

constitute an important fraction of Cheddar cheese

flavor. These compounds are products of the catabolism

of methionine and cysteine by bacteria in the cheese

matrix.

Am J Gastroenterol. 1999 Jan;94(1):208-12. Related Articles, Links

[Click here to read]

Failure of activated charcoal to reduce the release of gases produced

by the colonic flora.

Suarez FL, Furne J, Springfield J, Levitt MD.

The Minneapolis Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Minnesota 55417, USA.

OBJECTIVE: Activated charcoal is used to treat excessive volume or

malodor of intestinal gas. Our previous studies demonstrated that activated

charcoal failed to bind appreciable quantities of the volumetrically

important gut gases. However, the odor of feces and flatus derives

primarily from trace quantities of sulfur-containing gases, primarily H2S

and methanethiol, which should avidly bind to activated charcoal. The goal

of this study was to determine if ingestion of activated charcoal reduces

the fecal release of sulfur gases...

PMID: 9934757 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Am J Physiol. 1999 Feb;276(2 Pt 1):G425-30. Related Articles, Links

[Click here to read]

Differentiation of mouth versus gut as site of origin of odoriferous

breath gases after garlic ingestion.

Suarez F, Springfield J, Furne J, Levitt M.

Research Department, Minneapolis Veterans Affairs Medical Center and

Department of Medicine, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, Minnesota

55417, USA.

Utilizing the sulfur-containing gases of garlic as probes, we

investigated the gut versus mouth origin of odoriferous breath gases. Five

individuals ingested 6 g of garlic, and sulfur gases in mouth, alveolar

air, and urine samples were measured. The mouth normally contained low

concentrations of hydrogen sulfide, methanethiol, and dimethyl sulfide.

Immediately after garlic ingestion, transient high concentrations of

methanethiol and allyl mercaptan and lesser concentrations of allyl methyl

sulfide (AMS), allyl methyl disulfide, and allyl disulfide were observed.

With the exception of AMS, all gases were present in far greater

concentrations in mouth than alveolar air, indicating an oral origin. Only

AMS was of gut origin as evidenced by similar partial pressures in mouth,

alveolar air, and urine. After 3 h, AMS was the predominant breath sulfur

gas. The unique derivation of AMS from the gut is attributable to the lack

of gut and liver metabolism of this gas versus the rapid metabolism of the

other gases. Breath odor after garlic ingestion initially originates from

the mouth and subsequently from the gut.

PMID: 9950816 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for the good belly laugh. I do realize that some people get

weirdly empowered through obsequiousness, I've seen it in every job

I've had, but doesn't it get tiring? I understand some people feel

the need to have a strong A-type personality like Andy telling them

the " truth. " But the fact is that parent reports are what it's all

about.

Who is Matt Foley? I've never been to a DAN conference, never met any

of these other people, just joined the McCandless list yesterday and

haven't even read anything there yet. I do have a job, and yes, I am

pretty tired of all this, I have better things to do than to waste it

in this argument that is going nowhere.

I have received word from a biochemist at another university whom I

sent Andy's words to, who basically has more to say, but I wasn't

going to post that. I am too busy right now to follow up on that, it

would be different if I didn't have a job.

There were never any attacks on Andy; rather, Andy used " invective "

and " adhominem " attacks on those who questioned his science.

Questioning his science should have received simple answers from him,

rather than harangues, if he was confident in his science. The

harangues are a dead give away that he lacked the confidence in his

knowledge, and now he has admitted using invective as a way of

keeping people in line. Invective is only needed if the evidence

doesn't speak for itself or if you're trying to sell something. Now

his knowledge is questioned, that's all. If he was confident that we

would find other scientists who know mercaptans who agree with him,

he would simply state the evidence. But if others want to check it

out, they will find otherwise.

If this list is truly open to everyone, you won't attack those who

question Andy. There won't be one standard for Andy and one for the

rest of us. Some posts ago, in a love letter to Andy, you noted that

Andy goes away for awhile, and last time pleaded for him to come

back. Andy isn't like some alcoholic uncle who we should walk around

on pins and needles around because we're afraid he'll hit the bottle

again. (and ..No, alcoholism doesn't run in my family, I'm using a

metaphor based on a novel, I'm sorry I have to point this out as a

metaphor but I realize some metaphors are used as things to pounce

on.) He's just a non-parent, (as are alot of other people on this

list who seek to influence us) with some good knowledge who we

shouldn't have to be so obsequious around so that he'll stay. And he

has helped some parents. He does earn his living at this, and he has

something to " sell " as well as his ego involved, so why would it be

different than this mysterious Matt Foley? I don't have anything to

sell. As parents we have to navigate all the experts, and then come

up with our own expertise.

I do want to move forward with the hope that this will die, because

for me, the issue is over. I know some could be convinced by Andy

thru intricate efforts at biochemistry that the earth is flat. I may

not have conveyed all that the scientist said to me accurately (I

said he talked fast), but I did read him everything Andy said, and he

told me Andy's biochemistry was fundamentally flawed. But aside from

the biochemistry, Andy doesn't have the clinical data on TTFD (which

has been studied since 1970s, it's not that new) to prove what he's

trying to prove thru lab chemistry. That's where the errors of logic

come in. I mean, we would have SOMETHING by now that would back him

up.

I would very much like us to drop this, but I won't sit here and be

accused of having ulterior motives, etc. We can agree to disagree on

this, and that will be the end of it as far as I'm concerned. But I

hope you don't think that I will let you or Andy try to question my

motives, I will respond in kind by questioning yours. I don't know

what purpose that would serve, and like I said, I do have a job so I

really just want to move forward with my son. This topic is getting

boring. I could pursue it more, and call back the scientist, and

maybe I will pass along Andy's comments to him. But for the

sycophantic mind, it won't matter.

As I said, TTFD isn't high on my list of things to recommend. So it's

not like I've ever advocated it. I just have a friend whose son did

spectacularly on it, and I know that if there is that one person

there could be more who might benefit. I know there have never been

any reports of liver damage (the thing that Andy said over a year and

a half ago would occur from this product). I've just thought that

scaring parents is just not warranted by the facts, on the chance

that it could be a major aid. People continue to know Andy's

position on it, but then twist my position into something I have

never said. Please stop it.

Rose

>

> >I am also quite curious about this " mercaptan expert " being a

> > " biochemist " and working in a biochemically oriented company.

> >Mercaptans are not generally used for biological applications

because

> >they are toxic - I have a friend who works for Pennwalt making

them and

> >I do know the industry, the products, and their uses.

> >

> >Andy . . .. . . . . . .

>

>

> Methyl mercaptan

>

> Methyl mercaptan is a colorless gas with a smell like rotten

cabbage. It is

> a natural substance found in the blood, brain, and other tissues

of people

> and animals. It is released from animal feces. It occurs

naturally in

> certain foods, such as some nuts and cheese. The chemical formula

for

> methyl mercapatan is CH3SH.

>

> Methyl mercaptan is released from decaying organic matter in

marshes and is

> present in the natural gas of certain regions in the United

States, in coal

> tar, and in some crude oils.

>

> The United States material safety data sheet (MSDS) lists methyl

mercaptan

> as a colorless, flammable, gas with an extremely strong and

repulsive

> smell. At very high concentrations it is highly toxic and affects

the

> central nervous system. Its penetrating odor provides warning at

dangerous

> concentrations.

> Uses

>

> Methyl mercaptan is primarily used as an odorant to add warning

properties

> to propane and natural gas used as fuel. Propane by itself is

odorless, as

> are many sources of natural gas. Methyl mercaptan is added for

safety

> reasons so that gas leaks are readily noted by anyone present due

to the

> odor. Mercaptan vaporizes readily and is odiforous enough that

only small

> quantities need be used.

>

> For propane, methyl mercaptan liquid is mixed with liquid propane

by the

> refinery. The mercaptan remains in solution in the desired

concentration as

> the propane is piped and trucked through the distribution system

until it

> is stored in the tank from which it will be used. Propane tanks

are usually

> configured to withdraw vapor rather than liquid, and since the

boiling

> point of methy mercaptan is somewhat higher than that of propane

(and since

> its vapor pressure is lower), mercaptan becomes more concentrated

in the

> tank as vapor is withdrawn. For this reason, even minute leaks in

a piping

> system connected to a nearly-empty tank produce the

characteristic odor,

> especially if much of the propane was withdrawn at low

temperatures.

>

> In natural gas systems, methyl mercaptan is injected into the

distribution

> piping, usually within several miles or less of the point of use.

Injection

> equipment and a tank of methyl mercaptan can be seen at the

master meter

> point outside many cities. Mercaptan tanks are similar in

construction to

> tanks used for propane and anhydrous ammonia.

>

> Because of its reactivity, mercaptan can be removed from the gas

before it

> reaches the point of use, or after leaking out of piping. It can

react with

> or be adsorbed by metallic pipe materials, particularly when

corroded, and

> will bind to soil particles. Explosions have occurred where

underground gas

> leaks went unnoticed because the mercaptan was filtered out by

the soil.

>

> Methyl mercaptan is also manufactured for use in the plastics

industry, as

> a precursor in the manufacture of pesticides, and as a jet fuel

additive.

> It is also released as a decay product of wood in pulp mill s.

>

> From:

> Diversity of Sulfur Compound Production in Lactic Acid Bacteria 1

> K. E. Seefeldt and B. C. Weimer

> Center for Microbe Detection and Physiology

> Western Dairy Center

> Department of Nutrition and Food Sciences

> Utah State University, Logan 84322-8700

> ABSTRACT

> Volatile sulfur compounds such as methanethiol, di-methyl

> disulfide, dimethyl trisulfide, and hydrogen sul-fide

> constitute an important fraction of Cheddar cheese

> flavor. These compounds are products of the catabolism

> of methionine and cysteine by bacteria in the cheese

> matrix.

>

> Am J Gastroenterol. 1999 Jan;94(1):208-12. Related Articles,

Links

> [Click here to read]

> Failure of activated charcoal to reduce the release of gases

produced

> by the colonic flora.

>

> Suarez FL, Furne J, Springfield J, Levitt MD.

>

> The Minneapolis Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Minnesota

55417, USA.

>

> OBJECTIVE: Activated charcoal is used to treat excessive

volume or

> malodor of intestinal gas. Our previous studies demonstrated that

activated

> charcoal failed to bind appreciable quantities of the

volumetrically

> important gut gases. However, the odor of feces and flatus

derives

> primarily from trace quantities of sulfur-containing gases,

primarily H2S

> and methanethiol, which should avidly bind to activated charcoal.

The goal

> of this study was to determine if ingestion of activated charcoal

reduces

> the fecal release of sulfur gases...

>

> PMID: 9934757 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>

> Am J Physiol. 1999 Feb;276(2 Pt 1):G425-30. Related Articles,

Links

> [Click here to read]

> Differentiation of mouth versus gut as site of origin of

odoriferous

> breath gases after garlic ingestion.

>

> Suarez F, Springfield J, Furne J, Levitt M.

>

> Research Department, Minneapolis Veterans Affairs Medical

Center and

> Department of Medicine, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis,

Minnesota

> 55417, USA.

>

> Utilizing the sulfur-containing gases of garlic as probes,

we

> investigated the gut versus mouth origin of odoriferous breath

gases. Five

> individuals ingested 6 g of garlic, and sulfur gases in mouth,

alveolar

> air, and urine samples were measured. The mouth normally

contained low

> concentrations of hydrogen sulfide, methanethiol, and dimethyl

sulfide.

> Immediately after garlic ingestion, transient high concentrations

of

> methanethiol and allyl mercaptan and lesser concentrations of

allyl methyl

> sulfide (AMS), allyl methyl disulfide, and allyl disulfide were

observed.

> With the exception of AMS, all gases were present in far greater

> concentrations in mouth than alveolar air, indicating an oral

origin. Only

> AMS was of gut origin as evidenced by similar partial pressures

in mouth,

> alveolar air, and urine. After 3 h, AMS was the predominant

breath sulfur

> gas. The unique derivation of AMS from the gut is attributable to

the lack

> of gut and liver metabolism of this gas versus the rapid

metabolism of the

> other gases. Breath odor after garlic ingestion initially

originates from

> the mouth and subsequently from the gut.

>

> PMID: 9950816 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

> I've never been to a DAN conference, never met any

>of these other people, just joined the McCandless list yesterday and

>haven't even read anything there yet. I do have a job, and yes, I am

>pretty tired of all this, I have better things to do than to waste it

>in this argument that is going nowhere.

Your motivation is important.

While you claim to be this innocent newbie to McCandless, isn't it a fact that

you have ties to Dr. McCandless from way back?

In fact, isn't this YOU in the 2002 Diane Strand article below which just so

happens to contain quotes from one Dr. McCandless?

Did you turn Diane Strand the reporter on to Dr. McCandless and her quotes, or

did the reporter just suddenly happen to have a copy of her book just fall out

of the sky and hit her on the head? Maybe you even arranged a meeting between

Diane Strand the reporter and Dr. McCandless at say an Autism One conference?

You're here to proselytize this board in the name of McCandless at the expense

of Andy Cutler. You don't care to resolve this in personal e-mail because you

want people to see you get your pound of flesh driving a crooked stake directly

into the heart, soul and conscience of this board. It's all about the books Andy

has written, isn't it?

Does this refresh your memory of your long-standing linkage to McCandless?

http://www.midweeknews.com/extras/specials/autism/follow.html

Following-up

The following is a follow-up to a recent MidWeek story on autism.

By Diane Strand

The MidWeek

Rose Feurer, NIU assistant professor of history, said she and her husband

gradually lost their son Ben, now 6, to autism.

The child with precocious language abilities at two regressed to the frightening

illness of isolation and rigidity after inoculations that are standard for most

kids-DPT and measles/mumpss/rubella (MMR).

There were markers-Ben had been very sick and ran high fevers-105 degrees- after

initial shots and Rose now urges parents to tell doctors about any severe

reaction, because doctors are required to report those responses and often do

not.

" Parents should know that children are not to receive injections when their

immune system is challenged, Feurer warned.

In the past, parents who noted similar autistic regressions in their youngsters

after inoculations were initially ridiculed by the medical, pharmaceutical and

research communities as being unscientific or over-emotional about the issue.

Thousands have banded together in support and study groups via the Internet and

have learned of the work of doctors Wakefield, of Great Britain, Amy

Holmes and Jeff Bradstreet, who were similarly criticized.

Parents in England have argued-unsuccessfully, to date- for an alternative,

single vaccine.

Feurer takes heart now. Wakefield and Holmes, who were initially on the fringe

of the medical community over autism, recently received a $20 million grant from

the U.S. Center for Disease Control to explore the issue.

Just as encouraging, Feurer has spoken with some parents, including Holmes, who

have been partially successful in " detoxifying " their children. But the cost for

a treatment and travel is about $3,000.

Also, researchers now know there are many markers in a susceptible child,

including low sulphate levels and an abnormal EEG.

Researcher Dr. Jaquelin McCandless, of Woodland Hills, CA, voiced her opinion on

the autism increase several months ago.

" There is overwhelming clinical evidence by those of us in the fields dealing

with rapidly increasing numbers of autistic children that vaccine safety needs a

great deal more investigation, " McCandless said.

" My current belief...is that any child given the HepB (hepatitis) vaccination at

birth and subsequent boosters along with DPT has received unacceptable levels of

neurotoxin in the form of ethyl mercury in the Thimerosol preservative (produced

by Eli Lilly) used in the vaccine, " she said. Thimerosol is now being replaced

by a substitute that is the same as antifreeze.

" With any child with a genetic immune susceptibility (probably one in six

children), this sets off a series of events that injure the brain-gut-immune

system.

" By the time they are ready to receive the MMR vaccination, " McCandless said,

" the immune system is so impaired in a great number of these children that the

triple vaccine cannot be handled by the now dysfunctional immune system and they

begin their obvious descent into the autistic spectrum disorder. "

On a practical level, the cost of medical care and special education is

skyrocketing due to the many thousands of youngsters being identified as

autistic throughout the country over the last 10 years (see chart).

Feurer also cited research by O'Leary corroborating the above theory.

Specialists from Trinity College in Dublin recently detected a strain of measles

virus used in the the MMR " jab " in tissue samples from the inflamed intestines

of 12 children who each developed autism after receiving the injection.

In March of this year, the Dallas-based law firm of Waters and Kraus said they

were in possession of a confidential CDC report by scientists who studied autism

as a potential neurological injury caused by mercury in children's vaccines.

Feurer recalled Ben's illness.

" After his third DPT he started a self-comforting thing, lying on his stomach

and sort of bouncing. He also had bowel issues, common in a DPT-damaged child. "

Ben also started making repeated gestures and sounds, a condition called

" stemming " which Feurer said is a way to deal with pain. Ben also has seizures.

But occasionally there are " windows " of the former child, Feurer said. " Ben is

starting to recover the ability to interact with his brother. "

Individuals wanting more information from the public interest group concerned

about thimerosol in vaccines, may consult the Internet, www.safeminds.com

[Guest guest]

ROTFL!!! You would have been a good interrogator for HUAC!

> > I've never been to a DAN conference, never met any

> >of these other people, just joined the McCandless list yesterday

and

> >haven't even read anything there yet. I do have a job, and yes, I

am

> >pretty tired of all this, I have better things to do than to waste

it

> >in this argument that is going nowhere.

>

> Your motivation is important.

>

> While you claim to be this innocent newbie to McCandless, isn't it

a fact that you have ties to Dr. McCandless from way back?

>

> In fact, isn't this YOU in the 2002 Diane Strand article below

which just so happens to contain quotes from one Dr. McCandless?

>

> Did you turn Diane Strand the reporter on to Dr. McCandless and her

quotes, or did the reporter just suddenly happen to have a copy of

her book just fall out of the sky and hit her on the head? Maybe you

even arranged a meeting between Diane Strand the reporter and Dr.

McCandless at say an Autism One conference?

>

> You're here to proselytize this board in the name of McCandless at

the expense of Andy Cutler. You don't care to resolve this in

personal e-mail because you want people to see you get your pound of

flesh driving a crooked stake directly into the heart, soul and

conscience of this board. It's all about the books Andy has written,

isn't it?

>

> Does this refresh your memory of your long-standing linkage to

McCandless?

>

> http://www.midweeknews.com/extras/specials/autism/follow.html

>

> Following-up

> The following is a follow-up to a recent MidWeek story on autism.

>

> By Diane Strand

> The MidWeek

>

>

> Rose Feurer, NIU assistant professor of history, said she and her

husband gradually lost their son Ben, now 6, to autism.

>

> The child with precocious language abilities at two regressed to

the frightening illness of isolation and rigidity after inoculations

that are standard for most kids-DPT and measles/mumpss/rubella (MMR).

>

> There were markers-Ben had been very sick and ran high fevers-105

degrees- after initial shots and Rose now urges parents to tell

doctors about any severe reaction, because doctors are required to

report those responses and often do not.

>

> " Parents should know that children are not to receive injections

when their immune system is challenged, Feurer warned.

>

> In the past, parents who noted similar autistic regressions in

their youngsters after inoculations were initially ridiculed by the

medical, pharmaceutical and research communities as being

unscientific or over-emotional about the issue.

>

> Thousands have banded together in support and study groups via the

Internet and have learned of the work of doctors Wakefield, of

Great Britain, Amy Holmes and Jeff Bradstreet, who were similarly

criticized.

>

> Parents in England have argued-unsuccessfully, to date- for an

alternative, single vaccine.

>

> Feurer takes heart now. Wakefield and Holmes, who were initially on

the fringe of the medical community over autism, recently received a

$20 million grant from the U.S. Center for Disease Control to explore

the issue.

>

> Just as encouraging, Feurer has spoken with some parents, including

Holmes, who have been partially successful in " detoxifying " their

children. But the cost for a treatment and travel is about $3,000.

>

> Also, researchers now know there are many markers in a susceptible

child, including low sulphate levels and an abnormal EEG.

>

> Researcher Dr. Jaquelin McCandless, of Woodland Hills, CA, voiced

her opinion on the autism increase several months ago.

>

> " There is overwhelming clinical evidence by those of us in the

fields dealing with rapidly increasing numbers of autistic children

that vaccine safety needs a great deal more investigation, "

McCandless said.

>

> " My current belief...is that any child given the HepB (hepatitis)

vaccination at birth and subsequent boosters along with DPT has

received unacceptable levels of neurotoxin in the form of ethyl

mercury in the Thimerosol preservative (produced by Eli Lilly) used

in the vaccine, " she said. Thimerosol is now being replaced by a

substitute that is the same as antifreeze.

>

> " With any child with a genetic immune susceptibility (probably one

in six children), this sets off a series of events that injure the

brain-gut-immune system.

>

> " By the time they are ready to receive the MMR vaccination, "

McCandless said, " the immune system is so impaired in a great number

of these children that the triple vaccine cannot be handled by the

now dysfunctional immune system and they begin their obvious descent

into the autistic spectrum disorder. "

>

> On a practical level, the cost of medical care and special

education is skyrocketing due to the many thousands of youngsters

being identified as autistic throughout the country over the last 10

years (see chart).

>

> Feurer also cited research by O'Leary corroborating the above

theory. Specialists from Trinity College in Dublin recently detected

a strain of measles virus used in the the MMR " jab " in tissue samples

from the inflamed intestines of 12 children who each developed autism

after receiving the injection.

>

> In March of this year, the Dallas-based law firm of Waters and

Kraus said they were in possession of a confidential CDC report by

scientists who studied autism as a potential neurological injury

caused by mercury in children's vaccines.

>

> Feurer recalled Ben's illness.

>

> " After his third DPT he started a self-comforting thing, lying on

his stomach and sort of bouncing. He also had bowel issues, common in

a DPT-damaged child. "

>

> Ben also started making repeated gestures and sounds, a condition

called " stemming " which Feurer said is a way to deal with pain. Ben

also has seizures.

>

> But occasionally there are " windows " of the former child, Feurer

said. " Ben is starting to recover the ability to interact with his

brother. "

>

> Individuals wanting more information from the public interest group

concerned about thimerosol in vaccines, may consult the Internet,

www.safeminds.com

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rose, this article is wonderful! I wish more parents were doing

the effort to connect some journalists and having a lot more

articles like this!

Liora

> > > I've never been to a DAN conference, never met any

> > >of these other people, just joined the McCandless list

yesterday

> and

> > >haven't even read anything there yet. I do have a job, and yes,

I

> am

> > >pretty tired of all this, I have better things to do than to

waste

> it

> > >in this argument that is going nowhere.

> >

> > Your motivation is important.

> >

> > While you claim to be this innocent newbie to McCandless, isn't

it

> a fact that you have ties to Dr. McCandless from way back?

> >

> > In fact, isn't this YOU in the 2002 Diane Strand article below

> which just so happens to contain quotes from one Dr. McCandless?

> >

> > Did you turn Diane Strand the reporter on to Dr. McCandless and

her

> quotes, or did the reporter just suddenly happen to have a copy of

> her book just fall out of the sky and hit her on the head? Maybe

you

> even arranged a meeting between Diane Strand the reporter and Dr.

> McCandless at say an Autism One conference?

> >

> > You're here to proselytize this board in the name of McCandless

at

> the expense of Andy Cutler. You don't care to resolve this in

> personal e-mail because you want people to see you get your pound

of

> flesh driving a crooked stake directly into the heart, soul and

> conscience of this board. It's all about the books Andy has

written,

> isn't it?

> >

> > Does this refresh your memory of your long-standing linkage to

> McCandless?

> >

> > http://www.midweeknews.com/extras/specials/autism/follow.html

> >

> > Following-up

> > The following is a follow-up to a recent MidWeek story on autism.

> >

> > By Diane Strand

> > The MidWeek

> >

> >

> > Rose Feurer, NIU assistant professor of history, said she and

her

> husband gradually lost their son Ben, now 6, to autism.

> >

> > The child with precocious language abilities at two regressed to

> the frightening illness of isolation and rigidity after

inoculations

> that are standard for most kids-DPT and measles/mumpss/rubella

(MMR).

> >

> > There were markers-Ben had been very sick and ran high fevers-

105

> degrees- after initial shots and Rose now urges parents to tell

> doctors about any severe reaction, because doctors are required to

> report those responses and often do not.

> >

> > " Parents should know that children are not to receive injections

> when their immune system is challenged, Feurer warned.

> >

> > In the past, parents who noted similar autistic regressions in

> their youngsters after inoculations were initially ridiculed by

the

> medical, pharmaceutical and research communities as being

> unscientific or over-emotional about the issue.

> >

> > Thousands have banded together in support and study groups via

the

> Internet and have learned of the work of doctors Wakefield,

of

> Great Britain, Amy Holmes and Jeff Bradstreet, who were similarly

> criticized.

> >

> > Parents in England have argued-unsuccessfully, to date- for an

> alternative, single vaccine.

> >

> > Feurer takes heart now. Wakefield and Holmes, who were initially

on

> the fringe of the medical community over autism, recently received

a

> $20 million grant from the U.S. Center for Disease Control to

explore

> the issue.

> >

> > Just as encouraging, Feurer has spoken with some parents,

including

> Holmes, who have been partially successful in " detoxifying " their

> children. But the cost for a treatment and travel is about $3,000.

> >

> > Also, researchers now know there are many markers in a

susceptible

> child, including low sulphate levels and an abnormal EEG.

> >

> > Researcher Dr. Jaquelin McCandless, of Woodland Hills, CA,

voiced

> her opinion on the autism increase several months ago.

> >

> > " There is overwhelming clinical evidence by those of us in the

> fields dealing with rapidly increasing numbers of autistic

children

> that vaccine safety needs a great deal more investigation, "

> McCandless said.

> >

> > " My current belief...is that any child given the HepB

(hepatitis)

> vaccination at birth and subsequent boosters along with DPT has

> received unacceptable levels of neurotoxin in the form of ethyl

> mercury in the Thimerosol preservative (produced by Eli Lilly)

used

> in the vaccine, " she said. Thimerosol is now being replaced by a

> substitute that is the same as antifreeze.

> >

> > " With any child with a genetic immune susceptibility (probably

one

> in six children), this sets off a series of events that injure the

> brain-gut-immune system.

> >

> > " By the time they are ready to receive the MMR vaccination, "

> McCandless said, " the immune system is so impaired in a great

number

> of these children that the triple vaccine cannot be handled by the

> now dysfunctional immune system and they begin their obvious

descent

> into the autistic spectrum disorder. "

> >

> > On a practical level, the cost of medical care and special

> education is skyrocketing due to the many thousands of youngsters

> being identified as autistic throughout the country over the last

10

> years (see chart).

> >

> > Feurer also cited research by O'Leary corroborating the

above

> theory. Specialists from Trinity College in Dublin recently

detected

> a strain of measles virus used in the the MMR " jab " in tissue

samples

> from the inflamed intestines of 12 children who each developed

autism

> after receiving the injection.

> >

> > In March of this year, the Dallas-based law firm of Waters and

> Kraus said they were in possession of a confidential CDC report by

> scientists who studied autism as a potential neurological injury

> caused by mercury in children's vaccines.

> >

> > Feurer recalled Ben's illness.

> >

> > " After his third DPT he started a self-comforting thing, lying

on

> his stomach and sort of bouncing. He also had bowel issues, common

in

> a DPT-damaged child. "

> >

> > Ben also started making repeated gestures and sounds, a

condition

> called " stemming " which Feurer said is a way to deal with pain.

Ben

> also has seizures.

> >

> > But occasionally there are " windows " of the former child, Feurer

> said. " Ben is starting to recover the ability to interact with his

> brother. "

> >

> > Individuals wanting more information from the public interest

group

> concerned about thimerosol in vaccines, may consult the Internet,

> www.safeminds.com

> >

> >

> >

> >