Re: 2nd time posting: Taurine & Glycine-Correct dose/Behavior problems?

[Guest guest]

Kim,

I recently started giving my son, 4 yr. old,36 lbs., 1 325mg. cap.

Kirkman's Taurine. His poop is still pale so I am going to give

another 325 mg cap. at night as well.

I haven't noticed any behavior changes with it.

I have no knowledge about glycine at all...sorry.

> Does anyone know the correct dose per pound in milligrams for

> Glycine and Taurine. My child is about 42 lbs. Also, has anyone

> seen an increase in bad behaviors using either of these? Any

> replies are appreciated. -KIM

[Guest guest]

Thank you ! Good luck with your little guy. Thanks again, Kim

[ ] Re: 2nd time posting: Taurine & Glycine-Correct

dose/Behavior problems?

Kim,

I recently started giving my son, 4 yr. old,36 lbs., 1 325mg. cap.

Kirkman's Taurine. His poop is still pale so I am going to give

another 325 mg cap. at night as well.

I haven't noticed any behavior changes with it.

I have no knowledge about glycine at all...sorry.

> Does anyone know the correct dose per pound in milligrams for

> Glycine and Taurine. My child is about 42 lbs. Also, has anyone

> seen an increase in bad behaviors using either of these? Any

> replies are appreciated. -KIM

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

Kim-

As far as I know, Taurine never had any behaviors changes in my

daughter. I give 500mg once a day. Taurine is an antioxidant and

antitoxin- good for the liver and immune system. I also thought I

was once told that it is supposed to have a calming effect. btw - my

daughter is 37 lbs.

Lori

>

>

> > Does anyone know the correct dose per pound in milligrams for

> > Glycine and Taurine. My child is about 42 lbs. Also, has

anyone

> > seen an increase in bad behaviors using either of these? Any

> > replies are appreciated. -KIM

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Lori. Yes, I've read similar reports. That is why I added Glycine and

Taurine - for liver support, to rid/reduce copper and for the calming effect. I

guess the meltdowns, irritability and obstinate behavior we've experienced over

the last few days is connected to our last round in some way. Thanks for your

help. I appreciate it very much. KIM

Kim-

As far as I know, Taurine never had any behaviors changes in my

daughter. I give 500mg once a day. Taurine is an antioxidant and

antitoxin- good for the liver and immune system. I also thought I

was once told that it is supposed to have a calming effect. btw - my

daughter is 37 lbs.

"

<sawyera@a...>

> wrote:

> > Does anyone know the correct dose per pound in milligrams for

> > Glycine and Taurine. My child is about 42 lbs. Also, has

anyone

> > seen an increase in bad behaviors using either of these? Any

> > replies are appreciated. -KIM

>

[Guest guest]

,

Have you ever tried pantetheine? That might help your son make his own

taurine, especially if something is impinging upon the usual route to make

taurine that is key in the liver, where cysteine is decarboxylated via the

cysteine sulfinic (CSA) acid pathway. This is the old familiar route to

taurine..

There is an alternative pathway for making taurine that is discussed in

Cavallini, Scandurra, Dupre, Santoro and Barra, 1976. Organs like the

heart and the brain prefer the pathway that uses pantothenic acid. The

heart (at least in rats) can only use this pantothenic acid dependent

pathway, but the brain can use the CSA pathway as well.

I would love to hear from anyone who has tried pantetheine and seen the

stool darken as it has in my family. There might be some commonalities in

this group that we really need to know about.

Ital J Biochem. 1975 Nov-Dec;24(6):269-76. Related Articles, Links

In vitro enzymatic conversion of pantothenylcysteine-4'-phosphate into

cysteamine.

Dupre S, Granata F, Santoro L, Scandurra R, Federici G, Cavallini D.

In vivo production of taurine can not proceed from cysteine via the

action of cysteinsulphinic acid-decarboxylase in those mammalian organs

where this enzymatic activity is absent, such as heart. The possibility of

existence of another metabolic way is strengthened by the experimental

finding that, in vitro, cysteamine is obtained from

pantothenylcysteine-4'-phosphate through the combined action of two

mammalian enzymes, i.e. pantothenylcysteine-4'-phosphate decarboxylase and

pantetheinase, used in partially purified forms. This new route should be

related to the known biosynthetic pathway of CoA.

PMID: 1218969 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Alcohol Clin Exp Res. 1985 May-Jun;9(3):272-6. Related Articles, Links

Lowering of blood acetaldehyde but not ethanol concentrations by

pantethine following alcohol ingestion: different effects in flushing and

nonflushing subjects.

Watanabe A, Hobara N, Kobayashi M, Nakatsukasa H, Nagashima H.

A rise in blood acetaldehyde concentrations following alcohol

ingestion was significantly inhibited when healthy nonflushing subjects

were administered a clinical dose of pantethine orally. However, similar

findings were not observed in flushing (alcohol-sensitive) subjects lacking

hepatic low Km aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH). The blood ethanol

concentrations were not altered by this treatment in either flushing or

nonflushing subjects. Acetaldehyde (45 microM) added in vitro to whole

blood and plasma obtained 1 hr after pantethine administration disappeared

as the incubation continued similarly as with blood and plasma obtained

prior to pantethine treatment. Pantethine-related metabolites, such as

taurine, pantetheine, coenzyme A, and pantothenate, activated ALDH in

vitro. Hepatic acetaldehyde levels following ethanol loading of rats

treated with pantethine were much lower than in untreated rats. The

pantethine action observed only in nonflushing subjects might be due to an

accelerated oxidation of acetaldehyde by the activation of low Km ALDH by

pantethine-related metabolites formed in the liver.

PMID: 3893199 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

At 08:10 PM 3/4/2004 +0000, you wrote:

>Kim,

>

>I recently started giving my son, 4 yr. old,36 lbs., 1 325mg. cap.

>Kirkman's Taurine. His poop is still pale so I am going to give

>another 325 mg cap. at night as well.

>

>I haven't noticed any behavior changes with it.

>

>I have no knowledge about glycine at all...sorry.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

No, I have never tried pantetheine. Honestly, I have never even

heard of it.

What kind of dosing do you do?

Where do you get it?

> >Kim,

> >

> >I recently started giving my son, 4 yr. old,36 lbs., 1 325mg. cap.

> >Kirkman's Taurine. His poop is still pale so I am going to give

> >another 325 mg cap. at night as well.

> >

> >I haven't noticed any behavior changes with it.

> >

> >I have no knowledge about glycine at all...sorry.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

Here in Dallas, I don't see pantetheine on the shelf of vitamin stores, so

I ordered mine from the internet. There have been discussions on other

lists of brands....mainly parents looking at what is used as a binder with

allergy concerns of various sorts. But, , unfortunately, I haven't

found any data to suggest what the proper dose should be for a child.

In general, what should you do in the case where there is a suspected

nutritional need (based on good science) but no guideline on dosage? You

might look for the typical adult recommendation on the bottle and figure

out what fraction of an adult weight your child's weight is, and use that

fraction as the number to use to adjust down the adult dosage. When you

have calculated that quantity, use that number as your first target

dose. But don't start giving it at that rate. If it is possible to

subdivide the capsule this much, start with a quarter of the target dose

and add a quarter of the dose more each day. By the fourth day that will

put you at the target dose without having shocked the body with a sudden

overabundance of something that might have been very scarce. (Why do

this? Because your body has systems built in to keep nutritional things

balanced, and it WAS balanced at the point of having less of what you are

giving. The low and slow approach allows the body time to adjust, and it

may need to change its provision (absorption, reabsorption, conversion) of

necessary cofactors and such.).

If everything is fine for those four days, and you start to see a benefit,

or no problems, stay at that dose for a while, say a week, and see how your

child responds. If it is positive, but not fully there, then increase the

dose by a little, or just continue. After you get the benefit you want,

then work on getting the dose lower without losing the benefit by

incrementing the dose down. If it is something that might have a storage

mechanism in the body, then the goal may be just to get that storage back

up to where it should be, and then go back to a more normal exposure to the

supplement....ie, what you get in food.

Some nutritional things get low because of demands of medicines and other

nutritional supplements. Some get low because of inadequate dietary

supply. Sometimes illness depletes the body of certain

nutrients. Sometimes, there are reasons the kidney is having trouble

reabsorbing nutrients. We should probably presume first that we are not

dealing with something " genetic " like a missing step, unless we find the

benefit goes away consistently when we try to lower the dose, and we need

far more than is usual....consistently. Probably a lot of influences put

the metabolism in a bad state: things like chronic infection, or other

chronic conditions that keep the body's regulation too long in one

mode. The body just might need gentle persuasion back into healthy

relationships among all those cofactors. As a general principle, getting

nutrients back into normal relative proportions is where we want to be

eventually.

Even so, there is so much individuality about vitamins and dosages because

of different genetics and different circumstances in each child (or

adult). If what you are trying to address is a stool color that is too

light, then hopefully, if this puts your son on the right track, you will

see that stool color change to a more normal color, and that color can

become a very useful indicator for you. You might be surprised to see

benefits in other areas, and when you do, if you tell us about it, we will

all learn from it!

I hope this helps.

At 02:49 PM 3/5/2004 +0000, you wrote:

>Hi ,

>No, I have never tried pantetheine. Honestly, I have never even

>heard of it.

>

>What kind of dosing do you do?

>

>Where do you get it?

>

>

>

>

> > >Kim,

> > >

> > >I recently started giving my son, 4 yr. old,36 lbs., 1 325mg. cap.

> > >Kirkman's Taurine. His poop is still pale so I am going to give

> > >another 325 mg cap. at night as well.

> > >

> > >I haven't noticed any behavior changes with it.

> > >

> > >I have no knowledge about glycine at all...sorry.

> > >

> > >

>

>

>

>

>=======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

> Does anyone know the correct dose per pound in milligrams for

> Glycine and Taurine. My child is about 42 lbs. Also, has anyone

> seen an increase in bad behaviors using either of these

I used 500 mg Taurine for two of my kids, approx weight 45 and 60

pounds at the time I used it. No effects for #3 [he did better with

carnosine], #2 had some positives.

I have not used glycine.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dana!

[ ] Re: 2nd time posting: Taurine & Glycine-Correct

dose/Behavior problems?

> Does anyone know the correct dose per pound in milligrams for

> Glycine and Taurine. My child is about 42 lbs. Also, has anyone

> seen an increase in bad behaviors using either of these

I used 500 mg Taurine for two of my kids, approx weight 45 and 60

pounds at the time I used it. No effects for #3 [he did better with

carnosine], #2 had some positives.

I have not used glycine.

Dana

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