Guest guest Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 > > Well, first off, since Upledger trademarked the term " cranialsacral > therapy " he would say " I don't know what it is you are doing – but > it isn't CST. " Oooo - that means I can name and trademark what I'm doing - cool. > As for unwinding, there are different kinds. There is a form of > myofascial release called limb unwinding. There is also full body > unwinding (also MFR). The same thing happens in CST but it is > called a somato-emotional release. Basically, there is a physical > type of unwinding and then there are systemic unwindings that are > really emotional releases. Full blown emotional ones can get pretty > traumatic at times and can involve some extensive practitioner- > client dialoging. Which kind did you mean? (I suspect you were > referring to limb unwinding.) The PT tried to do the limb unwinding - but it was pretty pathetic. My chiro has done the whole body undwinding - which on occasion has focused so much on my shoulder area that it could probably be called limb unwinding. She also has done another type of unwinding - not sure what it is called and not sure if it is somato-emotional release. She put her hands on top of my head and then just let them go where they wanted to go. I allowed my body to go where it wanted to go - some pretty funky stuff happened. I remember her saying that sometimes emotions get involved, but that didn't happen with me. She did it with two of my girls. If I remember correctly - the principle is that our bodies are torqued in various areas and they shouldn't be - this unwinding allows our bodies to untorque themselves. This obviously would involve fascia. > > There is no one typical whip-lash pattern because there are > different types of whiplash. The technical name is a cervical > acceleration-deceleration injury. Hmm, my chiro frequently says that 2 of my girls have the classic or typical whiplash pattern - I'll have to give her a call and find out exactly what she means. I know Naomi got 'whiplash' when she was running head down and ran into a rope that was strung between two trees - actually she was lucky she was running head down so the rope hit her on the cheek and threw her head back - if her head hadn't been down it would have caught her in the neck. She still has a scar. Actually with the way my kids behave - 'whiplash' could have happened to any of them. > > And sorry, but I don't agree that the adjustments don't stick > because " our ligaments won't hold them and the muscles just keep > pulling them back out. " To begin with, for what it is worth, the > human head weighs about the same as a comparably sized bowling ball – > and it is delicately balanced on a pole (the neck) and held in that > balance by a variety of compensating muscles. > > The problem is not that the ligaments are weak and the muscles are > overpowering the ligaments, causing the cervical subluxations. The > problem is that certain neck muscles have been overstressed (in this > case the muscles that hold the head in extension). They can't do > the job. What does this do in return? The antagonistic neck > muscles (those that flex the neck) end up in a chronically shortened > or " tight " position. But wouldn't lax ligaments - that are over stretchy - be part of the cause of the tight and stressed muscles? Over stretchy ligaments provide an enviroment for the muscles to overstretch and get damaged - aquire trigger points. This happened not just in our heads, but all over our bodies - and causes a cascade effect of unbalanced muscles, compensation, etc. Have to contemplate this some more. > Now, let's test my logic on this. You said " she has tight SCM and > scalenes - she has a reverse curve in her neck. " What do these > muscles actually do? Well, the scalenes laterally flex the neck to > the same side, rotate the head and neck to the opposite side, and > FLEX the neck. The SCMs? They laterally flex the head to the same > side, rotate the head to the opposite side and FLEX the neck. > > Given that, the next question is " which muscles perform the exact > opposite actions? " And here is your answer. > > CERVICAL SPINE > FLEXION EXTENSION > STERNOCLEIDOMASTOID (BILATERAL) TRAPEZIUS (UPPER FIBERS, BILATERALLY) > ANTERIOR SCALENE LEVATOR SCAPULA (BILATERALLY) > LONGUS CAPITUS SPLENIUS CAPITUS (BILATERALLY) > LONGUS COLLI SPLENIUS CERVICIS (BILATERALLY) > RECTUS CAPITIS POSTERIOR MAJOR > RECTUS CAPITIS POSTERIOR MINOR > OBLIQUE CAPITIS SUPERIOR > SEMISPINALIS > > It is more likely, if she has in fact had a whiplash, that she > injured her levator scapula, splenius capitus, splenius cervicis > and/or the upper fibers of her traps. I'll check to see if there are trigger points in any of the extention muscles. > > Putting all of this differently, the SYMPTOMS are tight SCM and > scalenes but the CAUSE is most likely injury to one or more of the > muscles of neck extension. The SYMPTOM is a cervical subluxation > but the CAUSE is one or more weakened muscles. The SYMPTOM is a > forward head tilt but the CAUSE is gravity because the muscles that > act to hold that seven pound bowling ball head upright on the neck > don't have the strength to do so. Identify the symptom and look > elsewhere for the cause. I agree 100 percent that the symptom is a cervical subluxation and the cause lies with the muscles - however, this is one area that my chiro and I disagree - she says the tight/weak muscles are the symptome and the subluxation in the cause - gotta be a result of her training. > Has she had any evaluation at all for muscle injury? Is she getting > any treatment other than adjustments for cervical subluxations? No > offense meant toward your chiro because you obviously have an > outstanding one, but MOST generally don't do well with muscle > injuries because that is not how they were trained or how they > think. > I know my chiro can and will do muscle evaluation - she's done it for me with my pelvic troubles. I don't remember her checking Rebekah though. We see the chiro next week - so I'll have her check that then. I have a book that goes through and checks many muscles for strength and flexibility - it's a yoga book. The premise is that strength and flexibility issues in muscles cause many postural problems - i.e., that many postural problems are just a symptom of muscle imbalance. I've been planning to go through this with each of the girls but haven't gotten it done yet. Maybe we can do it this afternoon and call it science. still others (like the > conventional side of the house) just say it is " quackery and > superstition " . Yeah, I know some of these people - I'm related to some of them ... > > At any rate, digest this post and let me know what you think. I > will then take a look at trying to come up with some specific things > you can try, such as GENTLE stretches to help loosen the tight > muscles and GENTLE exercises to try to strengthen any weak muscles. I have had the girls doing gentle stretches for several months now and it hasn't done any good (I have a great stretching book and also my pt showed me several) I also have them do gentle warm ups before practicing violin. My pt had me stretch and stretch and stretch - we did passive stretching, stretching in the water, nerve stretching, etc, and none of it did any good until I figured out about trigger points. Releasing my trigger points negated the necessity to do much stretching to 'cure' tight muscles. I still do daily stretching as part of ongoing trigger point release and yoga. The PTs also gave me a bunch of exercises for strengthening that I should revisit. I will happily take any exercise for stretching and strengthening you have. So, what I think I need to do is really investigate the trigger points in her neck - especially the ones that work in extension. I also want to do the neck release you posted awhile ago on her - it has helped me (I need to do it again - oh where is the quiet uninterrupted time). And I think more than ever that the problem with her forward tilt head and her reverse curl neck is due to the muscles and not the subluxation. I still think that the ligaments allow excess movement which certainly contributes to the muscles 'damage'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 > > Well, first off, since Upledger trademarked the term " cranialsacral > therapy " he would say " I don't know what it is you are doing – but > it isn't CST. " Oooo - that means I can name and trademark what I'm doing - cool. > As for unwinding, there are different kinds. There is a form of > myofascial release called limb unwinding. There is also full body > unwinding (also MFR). The same thing happens in CST but it is > called a somato-emotional release. Basically, there is a physical > type of unwinding and then there are systemic unwindings that are > really emotional releases. Full blown emotional ones can get pretty > traumatic at times and can involve some extensive practitioner- > client dialoging. Which kind did you mean? (I suspect you were > referring to limb unwinding.) The PT tried to do the limb unwinding - but it was pretty pathetic. My chiro has done the whole body undwinding - which on occasion has focused so much on my shoulder area that it could probably be called limb unwinding. She also has done another type of unwinding - not sure what it is called and not sure if it is somato-emotional release. She put her hands on top of my head and then just let them go where they wanted to go. I allowed my body to go where it wanted to go - some pretty funky stuff happened. I remember her saying that sometimes emotions get involved, but that didn't happen with me. She did it with two of my girls. If I remember correctly - the principle is that our bodies are torqued in various areas and they shouldn't be - this unwinding allows our bodies to untorque themselves. This obviously would involve fascia. > > There is no one typical whip-lash pattern because there are > different types of whiplash. The technical name is a cervical > acceleration-deceleration injury. Hmm, my chiro frequently says that 2 of my girls have the classic or typical whiplash pattern - I'll have to give her a call and find out exactly what she means. I know Naomi got 'whiplash' when she was running head down and ran into a rope that was strung between two trees - actually she was lucky she was running head down so the rope hit her on the cheek and threw her head back - if her head hadn't been down it would have caught her in the neck. She still has a scar. Actually with the way my kids behave - 'whiplash' could have happened to any of them. > > And sorry, but I don't agree that the adjustments don't stick > because " our ligaments won't hold them and the muscles just keep > pulling them back out. " To begin with, for what it is worth, the > human head weighs about the same as a comparably sized bowling ball – > and it is delicately balanced on a pole (the neck) and held in that > balance by a variety of compensating muscles. > > The problem is not that the ligaments are weak and the muscles are > overpowering the ligaments, causing the cervical subluxations. The > problem is that certain neck muscles have been overstressed (in this > case the muscles that hold the head in extension). They can't do > the job. What does this do in return? The antagonistic neck > muscles (those that flex the neck) end up in a chronically shortened > or " tight " position. But wouldn't lax ligaments - that are over stretchy - be part of the cause of the tight and stressed muscles? Over stretchy ligaments provide an enviroment for the muscles to overstretch and get damaged - aquire trigger points. This happened not just in our heads, but all over our bodies - and causes a cascade effect of unbalanced muscles, compensation, etc. Have to contemplate this some more. > Now, let's test my logic on this. You said " she has tight SCM and > scalenes - she has a reverse curve in her neck. " What do these > muscles actually do? Well, the scalenes laterally flex the neck to > the same side, rotate the head and neck to the opposite side, and > FLEX the neck. The SCMs? They laterally flex the head to the same > side, rotate the head to the opposite side and FLEX the neck. > > Given that, the next question is " which muscles perform the exact > opposite actions? " And here is your answer. > > CERVICAL SPINE > FLEXION EXTENSION > STERNOCLEIDOMASTOID (BILATERAL) TRAPEZIUS (UPPER FIBERS, BILATERALLY) > ANTERIOR SCALENE LEVATOR SCAPULA (BILATERALLY) > LONGUS CAPITUS SPLENIUS CAPITUS (BILATERALLY) > LONGUS COLLI SPLENIUS CERVICIS (BILATERALLY) > RECTUS CAPITIS POSTERIOR MAJOR > RECTUS CAPITIS POSTERIOR MINOR > OBLIQUE CAPITIS SUPERIOR > SEMISPINALIS > > It is more likely, if she has in fact had a whiplash, that she > injured her levator scapula, splenius capitus, splenius cervicis > and/or the upper fibers of her traps. I'll check to see if there are trigger points in any of the extention muscles. > > Putting all of this differently, the SYMPTOMS are tight SCM and > scalenes but the CAUSE is most likely injury to one or more of the > muscles of neck extension. The SYMPTOM is a cervical subluxation > but the CAUSE is one or more weakened muscles. The SYMPTOM is a > forward head tilt but the CAUSE is gravity because the muscles that > act to hold that seven pound bowling ball head upright on the neck > don't have the strength to do so. Identify the symptom and look > elsewhere for the cause. I agree 100 percent that the symptom is a cervical subluxation and the cause lies with the muscles - however, this is one area that my chiro and I disagree - she says the tight/weak muscles are the symptome and the subluxation in the cause - gotta be a result of her training. > Has she had any evaluation at all for muscle injury? Is she getting > any treatment other than adjustments for cervical subluxations? No > offense meant toward your chiro because you obviously have an > outstanding one, but MOST generally don't do well with muscle > injuries because that is not how they were trained or how they > think. > I know my chiro can and will do muscle evaluation - she's done it for me with my pelvic troubles. I don't remember her checking Rebekah though. We see the chiro next week - so I'll have her check that then. I have a book that goes through and checks many muscles for strength and flexibility - it's a yoga book. The premise is that strength and flexibility issues in muscles cause many postural problems - i.e., that many postural problems are just a symptom of muscle imbalance. I've been planning to go through this with each of the girls but haven't gotten it done yet. Maybe we can do it this afternoon and call it science. still others (like the > conventional side of the house) just say it is " quackery and > superstition " . Yeah, I know some of these people - I'm related to some of them ... > > At any rate, digest this post and let me know what you think. I > will then take a look at trying to come up with some specific things > you can try, such as GENTLE stretches to help loosen the tight > muscles and GENTLE exercises to try to strengthen any weak muscles. I have had the girls doing gentle stretches for several months now and it hasn't done any good (I have a great stretching book and also my pt showed me several) I also have them do gentle warm ups before practicing violin. My pt had me stretch and stretch and stretch - we did passive stretching, stretching in the water, nerve stretching, etc, and none of it did any good until I figured out about trigger points. Releasing my trigger points negated the necessity to do much stretching to 'cure' tight muscles. I still do daily stretching as part of ongoing trigger point release and yoga. The PTs also gave me a bunch of exercises for strengthening that I should revisit. I will happily take any exercise for stretching and strengthening you have. So, what I think I need to do is really investigate the trigger points in her neck - especially the ones that work in extension. I also want to do the neck release you posted awhile ago on her - it has helped me (I need to do it again - oh where is the quiet uninterrupted time). And I think more than ever that the problem with her forward tilt head and her reverse curl neck is due to the muscles and not the subluxation. I still think that the ligaments allow excess movement which certainly contributes to the muscles 'damage'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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