Re: VERY URGENT - Andy please - 5 yr old reaction dmsa

[Guest guest]

This may not be as bad at it appears on the surface. I can share that both

my son and I had temporary periods of visual disturbance off and on throughout

the chelation process. His was more obvious. He did not have the condition

your daughter has but prior to chelation had extreme difficulty with getting

his eyes to converge/work together for depth perception and in tracking things,

especially with his left eye. He also had changing blind spots and periods

where he couldn't see something that was right in front of him. These problems

had subsided some prior to chelation and returned for brief periods during the

process. They've also returned very briefly a few times during other periods

where his body was experiencing immune stress or clearing out something (ie:

virus).

While I'm sure redistribution could occur and affect something this

dramatically, I have seen so many cases of temporary symptom worsening during

the

process to lean more towards the possibility that a system that is already weak

would temporarily weaken when the body is working on other things or stressed.

Either way, concentrating your efforts on reducing the possibility of

over-stressing your child's body during any sort of treatment would be key here.

Using a much more gentle (lower dose), consistent (every 3-4 hours) protocol

would be a good start and probably giving her longer between cycles. I'd also

be

very careful to remineralize after each round. I personally wouldn't add a

bunch of supplements since some kids can be extremely reactive to the

supplements as well causing a further overtaxing of her system. If you do add

supplements, I'd suggest doing it very slowly, one at a time, giving at least

several

days before adding additional ones.

You might also want to read up on Dr. Megson's Cod Liver Oil protocol.

It's had some amazing results in kids with visual disturbances.

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

,

I don't mean to sound harsh here, I am sure you are very concerned about your

daughter.

However, 50 mg of DMSA once a day dosing is insane. Have you read the files

section of this e-list and specifically Andy Cutler's recommendations for dosing

amounts and schedule?? If not, you need to. You need to take control of what

you are doing with your daughter's treatment and not depend on some " specialist "

to take care of all the details for you.

I think you need to stop this doctor's " protocol " right away. I hope some

people more knowledgable than I will jump in with suggestions about some

supplements to help reduce the potential damage here. I suspect some vitamin C,

B's, etc. may be in order.

--Lissy

[ ] VERY URGENT - Andy please - 5 yr old reaction dmsa

Hello Andy, sorry to bother on a sunday. My 5 year old ASD girl (30lb) was=

put by a

" specialist " on dmsa for heavy metal treatment. Her great plains mineralog=

ram (hair)

showed middle high mercury, tin, nickel, antimony.

His protocol was 50mg dmsa once a day during 3 days and 11 off. We have do=

ne 2 cycles

and my little one has lost her pain sensitivity (which she had recoved 3 ye=

ars ago through

diet) and is losing sight. She was born with a congenital nystagmus which =

means her eyes

move from side to side and has trouble focusing, but she could find us at a=

distance of

aprox 50-60 ft and now 10ft from her she cannot see us. Night vision is eve=

n worse. I´m

afraid the mercury has redeposited in her optic nerve or worse?

Language improved greatly towards the end of the first cycle but went back =

again after the

2nd dose and has not improved since. Tolerance is also going down.

We are scheduled to start a 3rd round of dmsa tomorrow, but don´t know what=

to do.

Should I just give selenium to try to minimize the damage or continue with =

a different

protocol to get the metals out? Should we continue to chelate or not? What =

would happen

if we do nothing, would her eyesight recover? She´s relatively high functi=

oning and would

hate to have her suffer damage on our efforts to get her better! I could no=

t forgive myself

if she goes blind on this!

Please advise. Thank you.

, mom to 5 ASD.

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

Could not agree more, I usually am very careful in checking things for my d=

aughter but

was caught in the expert web and took things for the first time at face val=

ue. I KNOW I

have to stop, and yes I´ve spent all weekend reading, that´s the reason for=

my post.

Thanks. No harsh feelings, just a desperate cry for help.

.

> ,

>

> I don't mean to sound harsh here, I am sure you are very concerned about =

your

daughter.

> However, 50 mg of DMSA once a day dosing is insane.

[Guest guest]

I would definitely change protocols, consider ALA and start Andy's every three

hours - around the clock - for at least three days when it can best be done.

[ ] Re: VERY URGENT - Andy please - 5 yr old reaction

dmsa

Could not agree more, I usually am very careful in checking things for my d=

aughter but

was caught in the expert web and took things for the first time at face val=

ue. I KNOW I

have to stop, and yes I´ve spent all weekend reading, that´s the reason for=

my post.

Thanks. No harsh feelings, just a desperate cry for help.

.

> ,

>

> I don't mean to sound harsh here, I am sure you are very concerned about =

your

daughter.

> However, 50 mg of DMSA once a day dosing is insane.

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

,

One well-known cause of nystagmus is low thiamine. Medline brings up 55

articles on this association which I studied at length a number of years

ago when a friend's grandchild acquired nystagmus after her first

immunizations..

Thiamine is a sulfur compound that enhances the endocytic pathway which

helps cells recycle protein and sulfur in particular.

There are several articles below which suggest that thiamine in a

derivative form participates in thiol disulfide exchange, a process which

is extremely important to the function of the kidneys in regulating body

sulfur supplies. If thiamin derivatives for a disulfide molecule, then it

is likely that this disulfide form could interact with DMSA. We probably

don't know enough to know if it is the derivative of thiamine that relates

to nystagmus or thiamine itself. Even so, if your child was just

borderline on being deficient, and this whalloping dose of DMSA went after

that scarce commodity, it might have been just enough to tweak her over the

edge back into deficiency. Speech is also a problem in severe thiamine

deficiency, creating a condition called Wernicke's

encephalopathy...something that happens with alcoholism A LOT.

Fortunately, IF thiamine is the issue here, then giving her thiamine should

resolve the problem very quickly. Another little perk is that thiamine

(probably by increasing endocytosis) helps chelation, as an article below

reports.

Thiamine is really important for the function of lysosomes. They are the

organelle of the cell where mercury collects after a few days after

exposure, and there it gets royally stuck, and it is my opinion that this

slow-down of sulfur recycling in the kidney is one of the worst

consequences of mercury toxicity.

I think there is a good chance that DMSA meets mercury in the lysosome of

cells after the molecule has been endocytosed into cells with extremely

rapid membrane turnover like macrophages (such as the liver Kupffer cells)

and kidney tubule cells. Fortunately, these are the same cells that would

have grabbed up the mercury and gotten it out of circulation pretty quickly

after exposure.

Any time you have a period of catabolism (rapid weight loss, for instance)

the demands on thiamine go way up as cells try to recycle all that the body

is breaking down, so this can be behind the onset of thiamine deficiency,

as was the case in the report below of someone who had experience weight

loss before surgery.. It is not always " diet " that causes thiamine to

become deficient.

Of course, you may have heard of Derrick Lonsdale's work with TTFD, a

thiamine-related compound. Some DAN! doctors have reported that when used

at the same time as a chelating agent, that it enhanced chelation, even

though the molecule itself is not a chelator. Makes sense, actually. I've

put two abstracts from studies that Dr. Lonsdale has written, one that is

hot off the press. (Actually, epublished early!)

Hope this helps!

PS. , if your daughter's nystagmus was congenital, there is a

chance that you were thiamine deficient during pregnancy. Were you a mom

who got nauseous and threw up a lot during pregnancy? That could do

it. If this applies, then when you get the thiamine to help your daughter,

why don't you try some, too, and see what might change for the better!

343fc748.jpg

Thiamine

Histochem J. 1996 Mar;28(3):217-25. Related Articles, Links

Histochemical localization of autometallographically detectable

mercury in tissues of the immune system from mice exposed to mercuric chloride.

Christensen MM.

Institute of Neurobiology, University of Aarhus, Denmark.

The distribution of mercury in the spleen, liver, lymph nodes, thymus

and bone marrow was studied by autometallography in mice exposed to

mercuric chloride intraperitoneally. Application of immunofluorescence

histochemistry and an autometallographic silver amplification method was

employed to the same tissue section. Mercury was not only detected in

macrophages marked by the antibody M1/70 but also in macrophage-like cells,

which were either autofluorescent or devoid of fluorescent signals. These

two cell types were identified as macrophages at the electron microscopical

level. Autometallographically stained macrophages were observed in the

spleen, lymph nodes, thymus and in Kupffer cells of the liver. Furthermore,

mercury was observed in endothelial cells. No obvious pathological

disturbances were observed at light and electron microscopical level. At

the subcellular level mercury was localized in lysosomes of macrophages and

endothelial cells.

PMID: 8735289 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Ann Fr Anesth Reanim. 2001 Jan;20(1):40-3. Related Articles, Links

[Click here to read]

[Postoperative encephalopathies: thiamine deficiency, an unrecognized

etiology]

[Article in French]

Vidal S, Andrianjatovo JJ, Dubau B, Winnock S, Maurette P.

Departement d'anesthesie-reanimation III, CHU Pellegrin, 33076

Bordeaux, France.

We report the case of a patient who experienced a postoperative

Wernicke encephalopathy 8 days after a left hepatectomy performed for

metastasis related to a rectal cancer. During the six months before surgery

the patient lost 10 kg of weight (15%). [catabolism increases thiamine

deficiency-sco]

Moreover, in the postoperative period the patient received exclusively 5%

dextrose solution intravenously. On the 8th postoperative day, an

alteration of consciousness, a vertical nystagmus and an ataxia led to

consider the diagnosis of thiamine deficiency that was then established by

the decrease in the transcetolase activity of the red blood cells. {a test

which confirms thiamine deficiency]

Vitamin B1 [thiamine] supply improved the clinical status rapidly and

completely. [The good news!] This observation allows to review aetiologies

and clinical forms of thiamine shortage. In addition, it stresses the

detection of exposed patients and the prevention methods.

Publication Types:

* Case Reports

PMID: 11234577 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Hum Exp Toxicol. 2000 Sep;19(9):523-8. Related Articles, Links

[Click here to read]

Effect of thiamine on the cadmium-chelating capacity of thiol compounds.

Tandon SK, Prasad S.

Industrial Toxicology Research Centre, Lucknow, India.

The influence of thiamine on the efficacy of

meso-2,3-dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA), diethyldimercapto succinate

(DEDMS), alpha mercapto-beta-(2-furyl) acrylic acid (MFA) and

alpha-mercapto-beta-(2-thienyl) acrylic acid (MTA) to mobilize cadmium and

reverse cadmium-induced biochemical alterations was investigated in

cadmium-exposed rats. The thiamine coadministration enhanced the efficacy

of MFA and MTA in reducing hepatic and renal burden of cadmium and that of

DMSA and DEDMS in mobilizing hepatic cadmium. It also improved the efficacy

of DMSA, DEDMS and MFA in reversing the cadmium-induced increase in urinary

alkaline phosphatase and aspartate and alanine amino transaminases. The

combined treatment with thiamine and DMSA or MFA restricted the urinary

loss of zinc and that with thiamine and DEDMS reduced the loss of fecal

copper, a general effect of chelation. In conclusion, the administration of

thiamine during chelation therapy in cadmium poisoning may be beneficial

and more effective than thiol chelating agents alone, which needs to be

confirmed in humans.

PMID: 11204555 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2002 Aug;23(4):303-8. Related Articles, Links

Treatment of autism spectrum children with thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl

disulfide: a pilot study.

Lonsdale D, Shamberger RJ, Audhya T.

Preventive Medicine Group, 24700 Center Ridge Road, Westlake, OH

44145, USA. dlonsdale@...

OBJECTIVES: In a Pilot Study, the clinical and biochemical effects of

thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide (TTFD) on autistic spectrum children

were investigated. SUBJECTS AND METHODS: Ten children were studied.

Diagnosis was confirmed through the use of form E2, a computer assessed

symptom score. For practical reasons, TTFD was administered twice daily for

two months in the form of rectal suppositories, each containing 50 mg of

TTFD. Symptomatic responses were determined through the use of the computer

assessed Autism Treatment Evaluation Checklist (ATEC) forms. The

erythrocyte transketolase (TKA) and thiamine pyrophosphate effect (TPPE),

were measured at outset and on completion of the study to document

intracellular thiamine deficiency. Urines from patients were examined at

outset, after 30 days and after 60 days of treatment and the concentrations

of SH-reactive metals, total protein, sulfate, sulfite, thiosulfate and

thiocyanate were determined. The concentrations of metals in hair were also

determined. RESULTS: At the beginning of the study thiamine deficiency was

observed in 3 out of the 10 patients. Out of 10 patients, 6 had initial

urine samples containing arsenic in greater concentration than healthy

controls. Traces of mercury were seen in urines from all of these autistic

children. Following administration of TTFD an increase in cadmium was seen

in 2 children and in lead in one child. Nickel was increased in the urine

of one patient during treatment. Sulfur metabolites in urine did not differ

from those measured in healthy children. CONCLUSIONS: Thiamine

tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide appears to have a beneficial clinical effect

on some autistic children, since 8 of the 10 children improved clinically.

We obtained evidence of an association of this increasingly occurring

disease with presence of urinary SH-reactive metals, arsenic in particular.

Publication Types:

* Clinical Trial

PMID: 12195231 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Med Sci Monit. 2004 Aug 20;10(9):RA199-RA203. [Epub ahead of print] Related

Articles, Links

Thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide: a little known therapeutic agent.

Lonsdale D.

Preventive Medicine Group, Westlake, Ohio,U.S.A.

Thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide (TTFD) is the synthetic

counterpart of allithiamine, occurring naturally in garlic. Allithiamine

was discovered in Japan in 1951. Its extensive research was reported by a

group known as the Vitamin B Research Committee of Japan, and given this

name because of its existence in the bulbs of many of the allium species of

plants. It was found to be a disulfide derivative of thiamine, produced as

a result of enzymatic action on the thiamine molecule in garlic bulbs when

the bulb is cut or crushed. Subsequent experimental work in both animals

and human subjects revealed that its metabolic effect was much more

powerful than the thiamine from which it was derived. Japanese

investigators created a number of synthetic forms and investigated their

use in a number of human disease conditions. Although some derivatives have

been synthesized without a disulfide bond in the molecule, these

investigators emphasized that the disulfide was an extremely important part

of its biologic action and TTFD is the most modern of the disulfide

derivatives. Because at least part of its beneficial effects are the same

as water soluble thiamine salts, this review deals first with the clinical

uses of thiamine (vitamin B1) in medicine.

PMID: 15328496 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

At 04:41 PM 8/29/2004 +0000, you wrote:

>Hello Andy, sorry to bother on a sunday. My 5 year old ASD girl (30lb) was=

>

> put by a

> " specialist " on dmsa for heavy metal treatment. Her great plains mineralog=

>

>ram (hair)

>showed middle high mercury, tin, nickel, antimony.

>

>His protocol was 50mg dmsa once a day during 3 days and 11 off. We have do=

>

>ne 2 cycles

>and my little one has lost her pain sensitivity (which she had recoved 3 ye=

>

>ars ago through

>diet) and is losing sight. She was born with a congenital nystagmus which =

>

>means her eyes

>move from side to side and has trouble focusing, but she could find us at a=

>

> distance of

>aprox 50-60 ft and now 10ft from her she cannot see us. Night vision is eve=

>

>n worse. I´m

>afraid the mercury has redeposited in her optic nerve or worse?

>

>Language improved greatly towards the end of the first cycle but went back =

>

>again after the

>2nd dose and has not improved since. Tolerance is also going down.

>

>We are scheduled to start a 3rd round of dmsa tomorrow, but don´t know what=

>

> to do.

>Should I just give selenium to try to minimize the damage or continue with =

>

>a different

>protocol to get the metals out? Should we continue to chelate or not? What =

>

>would happen

>if we do nothing, would her eyesight recover? She´s relatively high functi=

>

>oning and would

>hate to have her suffer damage on our efforts to get her better! I could no=

>

>t forgive myself

>if she goes blind on this!

>

>Please advise. Thank you.

>

>, mom to 5 ASD.

>

>

>

>

>=======================================================

>