Guest guest Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Hi, I was hoping someone could assist in understanding IMPLICATIONS AND CONNECTIONS OF a +4 citrobacter freundii, (dysbiotic flora) in a stool sample from a 17 year old with ASD i have seen some indirect association with hg poisoning...but i also want to find any and all info on this,,,,thanks so much...suzanne messina REAACH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 C. freundii is a nasty critter, whose talents include causing brain and cerebellar abscesses. Recently, a CDSA showing C. freundii listed antibiotics and non-prescription supplements effective against C. freundii. Chances are that gi C. freundii won't cause meningitis in a specific individual, but " not likely " seems less reassuring in a child with increased intestinal permeability and suboptimal nutritional status ths suboptimal immunity and suboptimal detoxification. 1: Microb Pathog. 2001 Jan;30(1):19-28. Bacterial invasion and transcytosis in transfected human brain microvascular endothelial cells. Stins MF, Badger J, Sik Kim K. Division of Infectious Diseases, Children's Hospital Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA, USA. Most cases of neonatal bacterial meningitis develop as a result of a hematogenous spread, but it is not clear how circulating bacteria cross the blood-brain barrier. Attempts to answer these questions have been hampered by the lack of a reliable model of the human blood-brain barrier. Human brain microvascular endothelial cells (HBMEC) were isolated and transfected with a pBR322 based plasmid containing simian virus 40 large T antigen (SV40-LT). The transfected HBMEC exhibited similar brain endothelial cell characteristics as the primary HBMEC, i.e. gamma glutamyl transpeptidase and a high transendothelial electrical resistance. Escherischia coli and Citrobacter spp, two important Gram-negative bacilli causing neonatal meningitis, were found to transcytose across primary and transfected HBMEC, without affecting the integrity of the monolayer. In addition, E. coli and C. freundii invaded transfected HBMEC as shown previously with primary HBMEC. We conclude that E. coli and C. freundii are able to invade and transcytose HBMEC and these bacterial-HBMEC interactions are similar between primary and transfected HBMEC. Therefore, our transfected HBMEC should be useful for studying pathogenesis of CNS infections. Copyright 2001 Academic Press. PMID: 11162182 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 2: Changgeng Yi Xue Za Zhi. 1999 Dec;22(4):649-53. Adult Citrobacter freundii meningitis: case report. Chuang YC, Chang WN, Lu CH. Department of Neurology, Chang Gung Memorial Hospital, Kaohsiung, Taiwan, R.O.C. Citrobacter is a distinct group of Gram-negative bacilli belonging to the Enterobacteriaceae family. Central nervous system (CNS) infections due to Citrobacter are uncommon, though they occur more frequently in neonates and young children. In adults, Citrobacter meningitis is extremely unusual with only 6 cases reported in the literature before 1998. This rare CNS infection has been seen in patients with head trauma, following neurosurgical procedures, and in those who are immunocompromised. Of the patients in the 6 reported cases, only one developed multi-antibiotic resistant Citrobacter CNS infection. Adding to this small number of reported cases, we report an adult case of post-neurosurgical meningitis and subdural empyema caused by multi-antibiotic resistant Citrobacter freundii and also review the literature related to this infection. Antimicrobial therapy with imipenem and third-generation cephalosporins failed to result in cerebrospinal fluid sterilization in our patient. Because of the use of broad-spectrum antibiotics, multi-antibiotic resistant Citrobacter species have developed in this nosocomial CNS infection and now present a therapeutic challenge. Therefore, further clinical studies are needed to determine updated therapeutic modalities for treating this life-threatening infection. Publication Types: Case Reports Review Review of Reported Cases PMID: 10695216 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 3: Pediatr Infect Dis J. 1999 Oct;18(10):889-92. Citrobacter urinary tract infections in children. Gill MA, Schutze GE. Department of Pediatrics and Pathology, The University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, Arkansas Children's Hospital, Little Rock 72202-3591, USA. BACKGROUND: Citrobacter species have been described as the etiologic agents in cases of bacteremia, meningitis, diarrhea and brain abscess, but little is known of their role as a cause of urinary tract infections in children. The purpose of this study was to define the role of Citrobacter species in pediatric urinary tract infections. METHODS: The project consisted of a retrospective chart review of microbiologic and medical records of patients younger than 18 years of age with urine cultures positive for Citrobacter species during a 3-year period. RESULTS: Thirty-four patients with 37 infections were included in the review. The average patient age was 6.9 years (range, 1 month to 18 years) and 71% were female. Fifty-six percent of the patients had urinary tract/renal anomalies or neurologic impairment and 26% represented nosocomial infections. Thirty-seven percent of patients were asymptomatic at the time of diagnosis, whereas 63% complained of at least one of the following findings: gastrointestinal symptoms; dysuria; fever; incontinence; penile/vaginal discharge; frequency; flank pain; and hematuria. Twenty-six of the isolates were Citrobacter freundii and 11 were Citrobacter koseri. Blood cultures were obtained in 9 patients and all were negative for Citrobacter isolates. CONCLUSIONS: Although it is uncommon Citrobacter can cause urinary tract infections in the pediatric population, which occur more frequently in children with underlying medical conditions. It appears that treatment similar to that of other gram-negative enteric organisms is the most prudent approach to these children until more information can be gathered. PMID: 10530585 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 4: Infect Immun. 1999 Aug;67(8):4208-15. Citrobacter freundii invades and replicates in human brain microvascular endothelial cells. Badger JL, Stins MF, Kim KS. Division of Infectious Diseases, Childrens Hospital Los Angeles, Los Angeles, California 90027, USA. Neonatal bacterial meningitis remains a disease with unacceptable rates of morbidity and mortality despite the availability of effective antimicrobial therapy. Citrobacter spp. cause neonatal meningitis but are unique in their frequent association with brain abscess formation. The pathogenesis of Citrobacter spp. causing meningitis and brain abscess is not well characterized; however, as with other meningitis-causing bacteria (e.g., Escherichia coli K1 and group B streptococci), penetration of the blood-brain barrier must occur. In an effort to understand the pathogenesis of Citrobacter spp. causing meningitis, we have used the in vitro blood-brain barrier model of human brain microvascular endothelial cells (HBMEC) to study the interaction between C. freundii and HBMEC. In this study, we show that C. freundii is capable of invading and trancytosing HBMEC in vitro. Invasion of HBMEC by C. freundii was determined to be dependent on microfilaments, microtubules, endosome acidification, and de novo protein synthesis. Immunofluorescence microscopy studies revealed that microtubules aggregated after HBMEC came in contact with C. freundii; furthermore, the microtubule aggregation was time dependent and seen with C. freundii but not with noninvasive E. coli HB101 and meningitic E. coli K1. Also in contrast to other meningitis-causing bacteria, C. freundii is able to replicate within HBMEC. This is the first demonstration of a meningitis-causing bacterium capable of intracellular replication within BMEC. The important determinants of the pathogenesis of C. freundii causing meningitis and brain abscess may relate to invasion of and intracellular replication in HBMEC. PMID: 10417193 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 5: Clin Neurol Neurosurg. 1994 Feb;96(1):52-7. Citrobacter meningitis in adults. Tang LM, Chen ST, Lui TN. Department of Neurology, Chang Gung Memorial Hospital and Chang Gung Medical College, Taipei, Taiwan. Citrobacter meningitis is an uncommon infection of neonates and young children. It is rarely seen in adults. We describe a 46-year-old man with a mixed bacterial meningitis caused by C. diversus and Klebsiella oxytoca and a 64-year-old woman with C. freundii meningitis. Review of the English-language literature revealed only 2 adult patients with C. diversus meningitis and another 2, with C. freundii meningitis. The ages of these 6 aforementioned patients ranged from 31 to 84 years. Multiple facial fractures, neurosurgical procedures, alcoholism and diabetes mellitus were predisposing conditions. Among the 5 patients whose outcome was known, antibiotic therapy was successful in 4 but failed in 1. This study emphasizes that almost any of the gram-negative bacilli can cause serious infection of the central nervous system in adults in the proper setting. Publication Types: Case Reports Review Review, Tutorial PMID: 8187383 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 6: DICP. 1991 Jan;25(1):27-9. Successful treatment of neonatal Citrobacter freundii meningitis with ceftriaxone. Rae CE, Fazio A, les JP. School of Pharmacy, Northeast Louisiana University, Monroe 71209. Citrobacter meningitis is an uncommon enteric gram-negative infection that afflicts neonates and young children. Approximately 30 percent of children treated or untreated die from the infection. We report a case of C. freundii meningitis that was resistant to ampicillin and was successfully treated with ceftriaxone, a third-generation cephalosporin. A 13-day-old, full-term baby was admitted to the hospital with a one-day history of fever up to 38.8 degrees C. On admission the infant had a temperature of 39.2 degrees C, pulse of 140 beats/min, and a respiratory rate of 32 breaths/min. Except for a slightly bulging fontanelle, the rest of the physical examination was within normal limits. Complete blood count revealed a white blood cell (WBC) count of 12.5 x 10(9)/L, with 0.66 polymorphonuclear cells, 0.10 bands, 0.18 lymphocytes, and 0.06 monocytes. A stat lumbar puncture showed 10 WBCs per high-power field with gram-negative rods. Empiric therapy with ampicillin 225 mg q12h and gentamicin 11 mg q8h was started. Both antibiotics were discontinued after culture and sensitivity results were positive for C. freundii in the blood and spinal fluid. The patient was successfully treated with nine days of ceftriaxone 250 mg q12h. Publication Types: Case Reports PMID: 2008783 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 7: Pediatr Neurosurg. 1991-92;17(1):23-4. Neonatal meningitis and bilateral cerebellar abscesses due to Citrobacter freundii. Joaquin A, Khan S, Russel N, al Fayez N. King Fahad National Guard Hospital, Riyadh, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. We report bilateral cerebellar abscesses in a neonate with Citrobacter freundii meningitis. The mortality and morbidity of Citrobacter abscess is high. Rapidly developing drug resistance may play a role as illustrated by our case. Publication Types: Case Reports PMID: 1811708 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 8: South Med J. 1979 Dec;72(12):1598-9. Citrobacter freundii meningitis in an adult. Scheld WM, Tyson GW. We have described the first case of an adult patient with Citrobacter freundii meningitis, which was successfully treated without administration of intrathecal aminoglycoside. Publication Types: Case Reports PMID: 515772 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 9: West J Med. 1977 Nov;127(5):418-22. Cerebral abscesses complicating neonatal Citrobacter freundii meningitis. Kaplan AM, Itabashi HH, Yoshimori R, Weil ML. Publication Types: Case Reports PMID: 919545 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Suzanne Messina wrote: > > Hi, I was hoping someone could assist in understanding > IMPLICATIONS AND CONNECTIONS OF a +4 citrobacter freundii, > (dysbiotic flora) in a stool sample from a 17 year old with ASD > > > > i have seen some indirect connection to nercury > poisoning...but alos, I am hoping for any information on this > ....thanks so much Suzanne Messina > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Citrobacter freundii is NOT a pathogen, dixit my doctor. My ASD son had a 4+ but that was his first stool test and we started him on the anti-yeast & tons of probiotics regiment and it was gone at the following stool test. > > > Hi, I was hoping someone could assist in understanding IMPLICATIONS AND CONNECTIONS OF a +4 citrobacter freundii, (dysbiotic flora) in a stool sample from a 17 year old with ASD > > > > i have seen some indirect association with hg poisoning...but i also want to find any and all info on this,,,,thanks so much...suzanne messina REAACH > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Hi , Are all citrobacters dangerous like this one? What about citrobacter amalonaticus? My NT 2 yearold has an imbalance of 3+ with this one. Thanks, Jen > > > > > Hi, I was hoping someone could assist in understanding > > IMPLICATIONS AND CONNECTIONS OF a +4 citrobacter freundii, > > (dysbiotic flora) in a stool sample from a 17 year old with ASD > > > > > > > > i have seen some indirect connection to nercury > > poisoning...but alos, I am hoping for any information on this > > ....thanks so much Suzanne Messina > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 My daughter had a score of 3+ also here. Heard it's not good stuff to have around. Along with it we saw the prescription and non-prescription drugs that were sensitive to it. (Not sure if all would have the same sensitivities...) Although we're in this leaky gut situation due to heavy antibiotics, a few months after getting this report my daughter was faced with again needing an antibiotic for her bronchitis. I was ill over the thought, but none of the homeopath treatments work, and bronchitis is nasty stuff. I figured if I had to give her an antibiotic, maybe I could give her one that could address both the bronchitis and the citrobacter. Luckily there was one on the list. I can't say for sure if it was that which did it or other natural attempts, but did test it and it was gone after. However I believe it was because I have heard this is hard stuff to get rid. Unfortunately it's a case of trying to figure out what is most important to focus on, and/or will others come back. From what I've seen, others have actually gone the prescription route here first, killed it off, and then refocused on the gut/yeast issue. Of course I supplemented intensively with pro-biotics at the time, which I do think helps. Just space the anti and pro's out. Good luck, Kari [ ] Re: Citrobacter freundii,,,can anyone help? Hi , Are all citrobacters dangerous like this one? What about citrobacter amalonaticus? My NT 2 yearold has an imbalance of 3+ with this one. Thanks, Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 thanks, kari!!! do you know how this may be linked to mercury? how do kids get it? suzanne Kari Trautman <karitrautman@...> wrote:My daughter had a score of 3+ also here. Heard it's not good stuff to have around. Along with it we saw the prescription and non-prescription drugs that were sensitive to it. (Not sure if all would have the same sensitivities...) Although we're in this leaky gut situation due to heavy antibiotics, a few months after getting this report my daughter was faced with again needing an antibiotic for her bronchitis. I was ill over the thought, but none of the homeopath treatments work, and bronchitis is nasty stuff. I figured if I had to give her an antibiotic, maybe I could give her one that could address both the bronchitis and the citrobacter. Luckily there was one on the list. I can't say for sure if it was that which did it or other natural attempts, but did test it and it was gone after. However I believe it was because I have heard this is hard stuff to get rid. Unfortunately it's a case of trying to figure out what is most important to focus on, and/or will others come back. From what I've seen, others have actually gone the prescription route here first, killed it off, and then refocused on the gut/yeast issue. Of course I supplemented intensively with pro-biotics at the time, which I do think helps. Just space the anti and pro's out. Good luck, Kari [ ] Re: Citrobacter freundii,,,can anyone help? Hi , Are all citrobacters dangerous like this one? What about citrobacter amalonaticus? My NT 2 yearold has an imbalance of 3+ with this one. Thanks, Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Wow, that's a loaded question. I'd say it's all ultimately linked to mercury. My daughter is not autistic, however has issues and I had leaky amalgams. Plus I was on an antibiotic when she was born, she got 5 colds in the first 8 months, then 2 rounds of bronchitis a few months later. (of course with antibiotics and no concept of probiotics). Then the asthmas set in etc. Yeast overgrowth by now is flourishing, and I'm only too happy to oblige by not being a yuppie/paranoid mom and feeling fine giving her chlorinated/fluorinated tap water. Ultimately it's all related to mercury, but I bet this came from one of her big problems which was constipation. She went every day, just totally rabbit pellet like. Seriously, so dry she really didn't need to wipe. (Thought it was kind of nice...) My 3 yr old son has some issues, including constipation yet not rabbit like, yet no antibiotics. He at this point does not have it. I'd say it had something to do with the antibiotics and especially the constipation. You get enough dry or old action going on in there and it sets itself up for problems. How is your son's system in that regard? Kari [ ] Re: Citrobacter freundii,,,can anyone help? Hi , Are all citrobacters dangerous like this one? What about citrobacter amalonaticus? My NT 2 yearold has an imbalance of 3+ with this one. Thanks, Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Go to Pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi Enter amalonaticus 34 citations appear, select Abstract, and read what PubMed presents. A clear trend is the many Citrobacter species, including amalonaticus can disable many antibiotics. katewish2000 wrote: > > > >Hi , > >Are all citrobacters dangerous like this one? >What about citrobacter amalonaticus? My NT 2 yearold has an imbalance >of 3+ with this one. > >Thanks, > >Jen > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Hi, Kari WE PUT HIM ON DIGESTIVE ENZYME AND EFA months ago after some labs came back showing.his needs in these areas he got.much better as far as pain, bloating, diarhea, and amazing improvement on ability to handle social situations, decreased anxiety...but then thes recent labs...with citrobacter, high stool cholesterol, and gamma stre, klebsiella specis, and staph (not aureus) imbalances, all +1, moderate vegetable fibers, high fecal sigA LOW ACETATE, HIGH BUTYRATE, FEW YEAST....lab is calling today to discuss........my guys all had the terrible exzema, allergies and asthma, as well...thanks so much for responding......hope your daughter is doing well, Suzanne Kari Trautman <karitrautman@...> wrote:Wow, that's a loaded question. I'd say it's all ultimately linked to mercury. My daughter is not autistic, however has issues and I had leaky amalgams. Plus I was on an antibiotic when she was born, she got 5 colds in the first 8 months, then 2 rounds of bronchitis a few months later. (of course with antibiotics and no concept of probiotics). Then the asthmas set in etc. Yeast overgrowth by now is flourishing, and I'm only too happy to oblige by not being a yuppie/paranoid mom and feeling fine giving her chlorinated/fluorinated tap water. Ultimately it's all related to mercury, but I bet this came from one of her big problems which was constipation. She went every day, just totally rabbit pellet like. Seriously, so dry she really didn't need to wipe. (Thought it was kind of nice...) My 3 yr old son has some issues, including constipation yet not rabbit like, yet no antibiotics. He at this point does not have it. I'd say it had something to do with the antibiotics and especially the constipation. You get enough dry or old action going on in there and it sets itself up for problems. How is your son's system in that regard? Kari ----- Original Message Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 wow...thanks and Kari. Any thoughts on how I can rid her of this quickly? What to use? She is my NT child and of course I worry. I am doing the anti fungal natural thing, garlic, gse, etc. with probiotics in between. She also had gamma strep 1+, Haemolytic E. coli 4+ and candida albicans 2+ on the same test. Thanks, Jen > > > > > > > > >Hi , > > > >Are all citrobacters dangerous like this one? > >What about citrobacter amalonaticus? My NT 2 yearold has an imbalance > >of 3+ with this one. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Jen > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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