Re: Questions about mercury detox in the treatment of autism

[Guest guest]

Just a partial beginning. Many kids shed metals other than mercury.

There are many docs now doing chelation even as most old-guard docs

(regardless of their age) belittle the process. I've yet to learn of a

child whose liver has been damaged. I have heard of docs who've stopped

chelation as liver enzymes began to atypicalize (that's one reason for

lab tests before and during chelation). Helpful tests would include

amino acids and " essential elements " (kinda like minerals). These tests

help you and the physician know your child's nutritional status (within

her body).

Jane El-Dahr, MD, tenured professor at Tulane Med Sch, plus

Cave, MD, and Amy Holmes, MD, presented a chelation-efficacy study at an

IMFAR conference appx 2 years ago. You can read Dr. El-Dahr's

presentation online.

Chelation efficacy - DMSA

..Some excellent DAN! Presentations

..http://autism.com/ari/dan/powerpoint2002.html

..

..Chelation efficacy study (163, informative abstract)

-PPT summary

-http://216.117.159.91/powerpoint/dan2002/El-Dahr.htm

Here's the abstract from the presentation:

163: A. Holmes, S. Cave, and J.M. El-Dahr. OPEN TRIAL OF CHELATION WITH

MES0-2,3-DIMERCAPTO SUCCINIC ACID (DMSA) AND LIPOIC ACID (LA) IN

CHILDREN WITH AUTISM. As submitted to IMFAR, June 2, 2001.

" Over 400 patients with autism are currently undergoing

treatment for removal of heavy metals. Patients are treated with DMSA

alone at doses of 10 mg/kg/dose 3 times a day for 3 days in a row

(shorter duration than lead protocol to decrease side effects) with 11

days " off " to allow metals to re-equilibrate. After at least 2 rounds of

DMSA alone, the thiol antioxidant lipoic acid (hypothesized to aide in

removal of heavy metals across the BBB)is added to each dose of DMSA at

2-3mg/kg/dose. In general, noticeable improvements in language,

self-help skills, interaction, and core autistic features are not seen

until the patient has been on DMSA with LA for 2-3 months.

" Of patients who have been on DMSA/LA for at least 4 months,

these results have been noted on general global assessment by parents,

teachers, and MDs: age 1-5yrs(n=40): marked improvement 35%, moderate

39%, slight 15%, none 11%; age 6-12yrs (n=25): marked 4%, moderate 28%,

slight 52%, none 16%; age 13-17 (n=16): moderate 6%, slight 68%, none

26%; age 18+ (n=4): slight 25%, none 75%. For example, a boy 5yr 5mo

scored in the average range on a one word expressive vocabulary test

10/00 and at age equivalent 8yr 2mo in 3/01 with no change in education

or medication other than starting DMSA/LA.

" The majority of children excrete mercury, lead, and other

metals, suggesting that there may be a generalized problem with metal

metabolism. Side effects include transient increases in hyperactivity,

self-stimulatory behavior, and loose stools. Younger children in

particular respond well to this therapy with significant improvement in

function. "

164: http://216.117.159.91/powerpoint/dan2002/El-Dahr.htm

Please keep in mind that, circa 2004, most mainstream docs will belittle

chelation. Then again, 'twas mainstream docs who fired Semmelweiss;

'Twas mainstream docs and " top notch " med journals that belittled the

physician who discovered and announced ulcers relationship to H. pylori

-- and that belittlling lasted for more than a decade..

joemccarron2000 wrote:

>I have a 21 month old girl with autism and I am researching

>therapies that hae been tried in autisitc kids. Here are my

>questions:

>How do you know mercury is elevated in the child and the culprit for

>the autistic symptoms?

>How bad is the hepatotoxicity? Have any kids gone into liver

>failure?

>What reputable docs do you recommend for this treatment?

>My child does not have any Gut issues - no diarrhea or constipation -

>do we have to go through the anti-yeast diet and Nystatin therapy?

>How many treatments and how often is this process?

>Has this therapy helped kids recover faster? How dramatic are the

>improvements and in what percentage of cases?

>Thanks

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't have any kids, but have worked with austistic children and adults, have

a nephew with autism, and have arsenic poisoning myself and survived mercury

poisoning. Comments interspersed.

S

I have a 21 month old girl with autism and I am researching <BR>

therapies that hae been tried in autisitc kids.  Here are my <BR>

questions:<BR>

How do you know mercury is elevated in the child and the culprit for <BR>

the autistic symptoms?<BR>

>

*Check out the DDI hair analysis and counting rules, as listed in the FAQs of

this list. Did the child have vaccines which contained thimerosal? Did the

child appear to developo normally and then regress? Any reactions to vaccines?

Did the child's mother have mercury amalgam dental fillings in her mouth during

pregnancy? Rhogam? Any vaccines (including flu shot)while preganant? Eat

fish? Live near coal-burning power plant? Many kids with ASD also have

elevated levels of arsenic, antimony, and other toxins. That's where the hair

analysis comes in handy to know what may have contributed since different

chelators work for different metals.

>

How bad is the hepatotoxicity?  Have any kids gone into liver <BR>

failure?<BR>

>

*Use Andy Cutler's low and slow protocol and you're much less likely to have

problems with chelation.

>

What reputable docs do you recommend for this treatment?<BR>

My child does not have any Gut issues - no diarrhea or constipation -<BR>

do we have to go through the anti-yeast diet and Nystatin therapy?<BR>

>

*Many on the list do not use any doctor, or only for occasional testing. If you

give us an idea what part of the country you're in folks may be able to

recommend docs. Important thing is to educate yourself and if you decide to use

a doc find one who's open to your input. You don't have to do anything, just be

aware that the chelation agents can sometimes cause gut issues. If you child

has taken antibiotics you may want to consider probiotics to put back the

beneficial " gut bugs " .

>

How many treatments and how often is this process?<BR>

>

*Low and slow chelation recommended in order to not overwhelm the detox pathways

and not redistribute the toxins. Oral chelation using Andy's protocol is every

3-4 hours (depends upon which chelator you use) day and night for at least 3

days (and nights) " on " and at least as long " off " . We refer to an " on " and

" off " as a " round " . Many do 3 on, 4 off, others do 3 on, 11 off. Depends upon

one's schedule, sleep needs, whether parents can take " shifts " , if there's

school or daycare to work around, what works best physically for the person

being chelated, etc.

>

Has this therapy helped kids recover faster?  How dramatic are the <BR>

improvements and in what percentage of cases?<BR>

>

*Yes, for many, if done using proper protocol and often in combination with

other therapies/approaches like diet or enzymes. Check out the " Love Letters "

section of this list. Consider identifying and removing/reducing sources of

exposure to toxins (mercury, etc).

>

Thanks<BR>

<BR>

</tt>

<br><br>

<tt>

=======================================================<BR>

[Guest guest]

> Just a partial beginning. Many kids shed metals other than mercury.

> There are many docs now doing chelation even as most old-guard docs

> (regardless of their age) belittle the process. I've yet to learn

> of a child whose liver has been damaged.

I have certainly seen many whose ALT and AST went up to 75-100 and the

doctor stopped chelating. This was always with the inappropriate and

harmful DAN! 10 mg/kg every 8 hour DMSA protocol.

> I have heard of docs who've stopped

> chelation as liver enzymes began to atypicalize (that's one reason for

> lab tests before and during chelation). Helpful tests would include

> amino acids and " essential elements " (kinda like minerals). These tests

> help you and the physician know your child's nutritional status (within

> her body)

It is a lot more helpful to get a good diagnosis by appropriate

testing.

The amino test is seldom that useful, other far more useful tests are a

hair element profile by Doctor's Data, a blood count with differential,

hemoglobin A1c, and thyroid parameters including free T3, free T4, TSH

and anything else the doc likes. Note that " free Thyroxine index " or

" T7 " is NOT equivalent to free T4 and is often falsely normal.

I'd suggest starting with hair and thinking real hard about blood

testing so you don't have to do several draws as you think of more

tests that need to be done.

> Jane El-Dahr, MD, tenured professor at Tulane Med Sch, plus

> Cave, MD, and Amy Holmes, MD, presented a chelation-efficacy study at an

> IMFAR conference appx 2 years ago. You can read Dr. El-Dahr's

> presentation online.

>

> Chelation efficacy - DMSA

>

> .Some excellent DAN! Presentations

> .http://autism.com/ari/dan/powerpoint2002.html

> .

> .Chelation efficacy study (163, informative abstract)

> -PPT summary

> -http://216.117.159.91/powerpoint/dan2002/El-Dahr.htm

>

> Here's the abstract from the presentation:

>

> 163: A. Holmes, S. Cave, and J.M. El-Dahr. OPEN TRIAL OF CHELATION WITH

> MES0-2,3-DIMERCAPTO SUCCINIC ACID (DMSA) AND LIPOIC ACID (LA) IN

> CHILDREN WITH AUTISM. As submitted to IMFAR, June 2, 2001.

You know, this is rather interesting since the results reported are

essentially those reported by Holmes at the original DAN! protocol

meeting, where they were NOT chelating this way, they were chelating on

the lower dose, 3-4 hour protocol. Also the date is rather long ago,

back around the time that was the protocol. I would be very curious if

the 400 patients were all done on the q8h protocol.

> " Over 400 patients with autism are currently undergoing

> treatment for removal of heavy metals. Patients are treated with DMSA

> alone at doses of 10 mg/kg/dose 3 times a day for 3 days in a row

> (shorter duration than lead protocol to decrease side effects) with 11

> days " off " to allow metals to re-equilibrate. After at least 2 rounds of

> DMSA alone, the thiol antioxidant lipoic acid (hypothesized to aide in

> removal of heavy metals across the BBB)is added to each dose of DMSA at

> 2-3mg/kg/dose. In general, noticeable improvements in language,

> self-help skills, interaction, and core autistic features are not seen

> until the patient has been on DMSA with LA for 2-3 months.

>

> " Of patients who have been on DMSA/LA for at least 4 months,

> these results have been noted on general global assessment by parents,

> teachers, and MDs: age 1-5yrs(n=40): marked improvement 35%, moderate

> 39%, slight 15%, none 11%; age 6-12yrs (n=25): marked 4%, moderate 28%,

> slight 52%, none 16%; age 13-17 (n=16): moderate 6%, slight 68%, none

> 26%; age 18+ (n=4): slight 25%, none 75%. For example, a boy 5yr 5mo

> scored in the average range on a one word expressive vocabulary test

> 10/00 and at age equivalent 8yr 2mo in 3/01 with no change in education

> or medication other than starting DMSA/LA.

>

> " The majority of children excrete mercury, lead, and other

> metals, suggesting that there may be a generalized problem with metal

> metabolism. Side effects include transient increases in hyperactivity,

> self-stimulatory behavior, and loose stools. Younger children in

> particular respond well to this therapy with significant improvement in

> function. "

>

> 164: http://216.117.159.91/powerpoint/dan2002/El-Dahr.htm

>

> Please keep in mind that, circa 2004, most mainstream docs will belittle

> chelation. Then again, 'twas mainstream docs who fired Semmelweiss;

> 'Twas mainstream docs and " top notch " med journals that belittled the

> physician who discovered and announced ulcers relationship to H. pylori

> -- and that belittlling lasted for more than a decade..

>

>

>

>

> joemccarron2000 wrote:

>

> >I have a 21 month old girl with autism and I am researching

> >therapies that hae been tried in autisitc kids. Here are my

> >questions:

> >How do you know mercury is elevated in the child and the culprit for

> >the autistic symptoms?

> >How bad is the hepatotoxicity? Have any kids gone into liver

> >failure?

> >What reputable docs do you recommend for this treatment?

> >My child does not have any Gut issues - no diarrhea or constipation -

> >do we have to go through the anti-yeast diet and Nystatin therapy?

> >How many treatments and how often is this process?

> >Has this therapy helped kids recover faster? How dramatic are the

> >improvements and in what percentage of cases?

> >Thanks

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> How do you know mercury is elevated in the child and the culprit for

> the autistic symptoms?

You can test if you want. Info here

http://www.danasview.net/chelate.htm

> My child does not have any Gut issues - no diarrhea or constipation -

> do we have to go through the anti-yeast diet and Nystatin therapy?

Depends. My son did not have gut issues *until* I started biomedical

with him.

Chelation generally stirs up yeast, so even if you don't have that

problem now, you might have it later.

If you don't want to consider diets, you can consider HNI enzymes,

they work very well for many people

http://www.houstonni.com/

> How many treatments and how often is this process?

It took 84 rounds for my son to be fully chelated. This took just a

little over two years. Round 84 was 4 weeks long, so you can probably

say it would have taken 100 rounds if I had kept to a " normal " schedule.

> Has this therapy helped kids recover faster? How dramatic are the

> improvements and in what percentage of cases?

My son has Kanner dx, meaning he was autistic from birth [did not

regress]. He is now " recovered " meaning he no longer qualifies as

autistic, but he is not yet age-appropriate because he has a lot of

catching up to do. Chelation was approx 60% of his recovery.

Good luck.

Dana