Re: ANDY(anyone) -Can DMSA be put into heated bottle for child?

[Guest guest]

>

> I have a 30 month old who won't give up the bottle. My question

is

> regarding the way to give the DMSA powder to him. He only eats

every

> 4 hours, alternating every 2 hours with a bottle and a jar of

food.

> Every 3 hours won't work with his feeds so I was wondering if

every 4

> would be okay.

every 4 hours is what is the recommended time for DMSA.

(It is ALA that is every 3 hours).

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/Andy_dose_sched.html

> Also, if it happened to fall on a bottle feed, would

> it be okay to put the DMSA in a smaller amount of heated milk to

have

> him drink in the bottle? Will it destroy the DMSA?

(I don't know.)

> I want to give

> him about 10mg of DMSA each feed every 4 hours, for 5 feeds. ***HE

> WILL NOT TAKE ANYTHING AT NIGHT*** I know he will not wake up and

I

> know if I give it to him while sleeping, he will wake up and

vomit.

> He is ASD and is VERY picky on when, how and what he eats.

So then let's be clear about that you are NOT following

the " every 4 hours " method. You must do it night also in

order to be doing it.

> Is it okay to give small amounts throughout the day and wait 8-10

> hours during the night until he can eat the next morning?

no, it is not at all okay. The doses throughout the day do not

make up for the doses at night. Not connected.

> I am not

> sure on what to do and need help on coming up with a schedule that

> would be the best. He starts eating at 9:30-10 am and his last

feed

> is at 10:30-11 pm. I am pretty sure I can get it to him during

the

> day but know there is no way to do it during the night.

This is a problem, and I'm really not sure what to suggest.

You already said that you are sure you can't do the night

doses. The only things I know to suggest are ways to do

that and get it to work.

> His schedule

> is pretty set as if it deviates he refuses to eat. Not to

mention,

> he has to eat to the television. By the way, he hates apple sauce

> and doesn't take many solids either.

>

> I am sure that whatever we have to do will not be exactly the best

> protocol.

Actually, I would suggest that you get some DMPS prescribed for

him and use that for a while. It requires an Rx, and is more

expensive, but can be used once every 8 hours.

> However, knowing that I need to see what the next best

> option is for me to give the DMSA to him. I do want to be

productive

> and help him out and looking for the best way to do that to the

> extent that my son will allow me.

>

> Not trying ot start any problems, really just trying to understand

> better for myself and get a clearer picture, so can someone also

give

> me a link that I can read about redistribution of Mercury so I can

> understand it better?

the best I can do is this:

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ANDY_INDEX.html

Look for the SECTION HEADINGS about " keeping a steady blood

level of chelation agents " and " bad protocols " .

> Trying to understand why using large dose at

> one time (50mg) wouldn't pull out more Mercury than using 10mg

over

> many hours.

ah, now I see what you are asking.

Here is the deal: let's suppose you were to take one dose, and

that is it. (No more for days). Lots of mercury gets loosened up

and some of it leaves (which is good). The problem is that lots

is left floating around in your bloodstream AFTER THE DMSA IS

ALL GONE. Some of this will get " redistributed " , and it will

go to places that attack mercury, like your brain and liver.

This is bad. The results can be (and sometimes are) that

people get WORSE instead of better.

> How do we know that with one-two times a day doses (say

> 25mg each time) wouldn't help to pull out better amounts of

Mercury

> and how do we know that in fact it does cause a redistribution of

> mercury?

because zillions of people have used gillions of methods like

this of all different kinds, and on all these methods some

people get very sick. dmpsbackfire is sorta the " infamous "

case.

http://www.dmpsbackfire.com/default.shtml

It is mostly people using a REEEEEEALLY bad protocol like

DMPS IV injections once every week or things like that.

But there are also lots of cases with people taking ALA

once a day or DMSA every other day or DMSA every 8 hours

or all kinds of other stuff. They just aren't as nicely

collected as DMPSbackfire. (I've actually been very very

slowly collecting a few posts with info on this, but it

is horribly slow work. I wish I'd started years ago.....)

> Not meaning to be scientific but just curious as to who is

> looking inside the body to get proof that the mercury is in fact

> redistributing for sure?

That part I don't think anyone has--- no one has done rat

studies on this (as far as I know....) so no info on brain

concentration. Personally, I find the statements of Heyl

(the maker of DMPS) about people getting worse mercury

poisoning pretty darned interesting. (See DMPSbackfire site,

I can't tell you which page though.) The main thing that

is clear is that people get " worse " and they get worse in

ways that look/sound/act/feel like MERCURY POISONING.

So, that is different than having brain tissue samples....

good wishes,

Moria

>

> Thanks so much,

> Sheryl

>

> P.S. We plan to start him the week of Thanksgiving after I figure

out

> what is the best way to go. I don't want to start hastely but

prefer

> to be informed the best I can.

[Guest guest]

> I have a 30 month old who won't give up the bottle. My question is

> regarding the way to give the DMSA powder to him. He only eats every

> 4 hours, alternating every 2 hours with a bottle and a jar of food.

> Every 3 hours won't work with his feeds so I was wondering if every 4

> would be okay.

With DMSA only, yes, every 4 is fine for everyone.

With ALA some people tolerate it, others need more frequent dosing.

It is ALWAYS OK to give the stuff more often, so you could do it every

2 (bottle, regular food, back and forth) if you needed to.

> Also, if it happened to fall on a bottle feed, would

> it be okay to put the DMSA in a smaller amount of heated milk to have

> him drink in the bottle? Will it destroy the DMSA?

This is fine but it will probably curdle the milk and make it taste

horrid.

You can put it in liquid for a short time and it is fine.

> I want to give

> him about 10mg of DMSA each feed every 4 hours, for 5 feeds. ***HE

> WILL NOT TAKE ANYTHING AT NIGHT*** I know he will not wake up and I

> know if I give it to him while sleeping, he will wake up and vomit.

> He is ASD and is VERY picky on when, how and what he eats.

Don't get emotional and mess your kid up by not trying things. Try it.

See if you can get it to work. Most parents do. If you can't get it

to work, then let's talk abouit what else to do instead.

> Is it okay to give small amounts throughout the day and wait 8-10

> hours during the night until he can eat the next morning?

No.

> I am not sure on what to do

Try putting it in some acecptable food and popping it in his mouth at

night, correspond with some of the other parents on this list who have

solved this problem, try a few things and see if you can get it to

work.

> and need help on coming up with a schedule that

> would be the best. He starts eating at 9:30-10 am and his last feed

> is at 10:30-11 pm. I am pretty sure I can get it to him during the

> day but know there is no way to do it during the night.

Don't get yourself all wound up about this emotionally or you will make

it so. Approach it with an open mind and see if you can get it to

work. If so, great. If not, then we'll talk about what to do.

> His schedule

> is pretty set as if it deviates he refuses to eat. Not to mention,

> he has to eat to the television. By the way, he hates apple sauce

> and doesn't take many solids either.

>

> I am sure that whatever we have to do will not be exactly the best

> protocol.

Probably not, but first try night dosing. If not possible, then we

will discuss other things to do.

One, btw, being to start with oral DMPS which is 8 hour dosing and see

if he gets enough better on that to take doses at night when youj start

ALA.

> However, knowing that I need to see what the next best

> option is for me to give the DMSA to him. I do want to be productive

> and help him out and looking for the best way to do that to the

> extent that my son will allow me.

The best way to do that is first try night dosing, be creative, try to

make it work. If it isn't possible, then talk about what else to do.

> Not trying ot start any problems, really just trying to understand

> better for myself and get a clearer picture, so can someone also give

> me a link that I can read about redistribution of Mercury so I can

> understand it better? Trying to understand why using large dose at

> one time (50mg) wouldn't pull out more Mercury than using 10mg over

> many hours. How do we know that with one-two times a day doses (say

> 25mg each time) wouldn't help to pull out better amounts of Mercury

> and how do we know that in fact it does cause a redistribution of

> mercury?

Either you have to do the equations or rely on the experience of

hundreds of parents that 8+ hour dosing causes lots of problems and

often makes kids worse, 4 hour dosing generally works well.

See the polls section for relevant information.

> Not meaning to be scientific but just curious as to who is

> looking inside the body to get proof that the mercury is in fact

> redistributing for sure?

>

> Thanks so much,

> Sheryl

>

> P.S. We plan to start him the week of Thanksgiving after I figure out

> what is the best way to go. I don't want to start hastely but prefer

> to be informed the best I can.

Good. So don't be hasty about the nighttime dosing. Get some

information by trying it. Then we'll talk about what to do that works

for your kid.

Andy . . . . .. . . . .

[Guest guest]

> With DMSA only, yes, every 4 is fine for everyone.

> With ALA some people tolerate it, others need more frequent dosing.

> It is ALWAYS OK to give the stuff more often, so you could do it

every 2 (bottle, regular food, back and forth) if you needed to.

What is the longest you can go with DMSA? Is it 4 hours or is it 6?

> This is fine but it will probably curdle the milk and make it taste

> horrid.You can put it in liquid for a short time and it is fine.

So for clarification, puting it in HEATED milk will not destroy the

DMSA? It can be put in any liquid for a short time or can it be put

in cold liquids longer?

> Don't get emotional and mess your kid up by not trying things. Try

it. See if you can get it to work. Most parents do. If you can't

get it to work, then let's talk abouit what else to do instead.

> Try putting it in some acecptable food and popping it in his mouth

at night, correspond with some of the other parents on this list who

have solved this problem, try a few things and see if you can get it

to work.

For clarification, wouldn't it be bad to just try to get the night

doses down? Wouldn't that cause redistribution if he wasn't getting

it throughout the whole day? I mean I have to start somewhere and

obviously the night dose is the problem. So, if perhaps I can get

one night dose but have problems with the next dose, should I just

keep trying every night until he can take both doses during the night

or will it cause problems? If he didn't take the second night dose,

then there would be too long in between.

> One, btw, being to start with oral DMPS which is 8 hour dosing and

see if he gets enough better on that to take doses at night when youj

start ALA.

>

> Andy . . . . .. . . . .

I didn't quite understand what you meant.

Do you think the dose of 50mg a day is good for a 23 pound child?

Broken up over each 4 hours?

Thanks so much, you have given me some determination to try him when

we get back.

Sheryl

[Guest guest]

> > With DMSA only, yes, every 4 is fine for everyone.

> > With ALA some people tolerate it, others need more frequent dosing.

> > It is ALWAYS OK to give the stuff more often, so you could do it

> every 2 (bottle, regular food, back and forth) if you needed to.

>

>

> What is the longest you can go with DMSA? Is it 4 hours or is it 6?

I don't really know how far you can push it, the only way to find that

out is to really really really really mess up a bunch of people so I

don't try to get people to experiment. 5 or 6 might be OK, might not.

This will vary a bit from person to person, too. The solution to

longer dosing is to get some DMPS.

> > This is fine but it will probably curdle the milk and make it taste

> > horrid.You can put it in liquid for a short time and it is fine.

>

> So for clarification, puting it in HEATED milk will not destroy the

> DMSA?

Correct.

> It can be put in any liquid for a short time or can it be put

> in cold liquids longer?

Cold, and tart (which wouild curlde milk) makes it last longer.

Remember, it gets into warm blood and lasts several hours there. It

will last several hours in warm non-alkaline liquid outside the body

too.

> > Don't get emotional and mess your kid up by not trying things. Try

> it. See if you can get it to work. Most parents do. If you can't

> get it to work, then let's talk abouit what else to do instead.

>

> > Try putting it in some acecptable food and popping it in his mouth

> at night, correspond with some of the other parents on this list who

> have solved this problem, try a few things and see if you can get it

> to work.

>

>

> For clarification, wouldn't it be bad to just try to get the night

> doses down? Wouldn't that cause redistribution if he wasn't getting

> it throughout the whole day? I mean I have to start somewhere and

> obviously the night dose is the problem. So, if perhaps I can get

> one night dose but have problems with the next dose, should I just

> keep trying every night until he can take both doses during the night

> or will it cause problems? If he didn't take the second night dose,

> then there would be too long in between.

When you miss a dose, you stop and wait for the next weekend. So it

may take a few weekends for you to be sure you can or can't do this.

> > One, btw, being to start with oral DMPS which is 8 hour dosing and

> see if he gets enough better on that to take doses at night when youj

> start ALA.

> >

> > Andy . . . . .. . . . .

>

>

> I didn't quite understand what you meant.

>

> Do you think the dose of 50mg a day is good for a 23 pound child?

> Broken up over each 4 hours?

This is fine.

> Thanks so much, you have given me some determination to try him when

> we get back.

>

> Sheryl

[Guest guest]

>

>>> With DMSA only, yes, every 4 is fine for everyone.

With ALA some people tolerate it, others need more frequent

dosing.<<<

How do you know when to add ALA to DMSA and at what point do

you do it? Do you always want to combine the two? In what

situations wouldn't you combine them?

>>> It is ALWAYS OK to give the stuff more often, so you could do

it every 2 (bottle, regular food, back and forth) if you needed

to.<<

Would you get a better response by using it every 2 hours or

is it the same if you use it every 4 hours?

>>> When you miss a dose, you stop and wait for the next weekend. So

it may take a few weekends for you to be sure you can or can't do

this.<<<

I think I am still confused on this one. I thought starting and

stopping doses was bad for redistribution. Are you saying that

practicing giving him only his night doses would be okay? I mean

until I can get his night doses in I can't start the day doses.

For example, if I gave him a 4am dose of DMPS and he took it but

at 8 am he didn't take it, what would I do? Would I wait another

week to try the night dose again or would I just retry him the next

night again. Will the tiny amount that I give him in trial during the

night not cause a problem of redistribution? I would have to do 2

night doses. So, it is better to wait a whole week instead of going

to the next dose, how is that? Isn't the redistribution still going

to occur?

Thanks,

Sheryl