Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Topper: I have spent two years trying to get my mom in front of a doc who would run the proper bloods. Basically she is nuts and I have wondered since my own foray into this mess....if her shitzo ways are linked to low thyroid. I finally got her into see someone and they did an ultrasound and antibodies along with the tsh and frees. The only thing they found was a low in the range t3. Two of her sisters are "low thyroid" but I do not know the root cause of that. Now...the word around her docs is that she is dimented...but they think the hormone angle is moot. AND...now they want to talk to ME about it. YIKES!!!! ~E:) topper2@... wrote: I do know that if adrenals are suppressed too fully, for too long a time, they will shut down and not restart.... I've NEVER heard that about the thyroid gland. It just 'goes on vacation' and kicks back in as the need for more hormone takes over. Has it ever been determined why your gland isn't able to produce enough hormone? ... you're sure that antibodies aren't a problem? Not being a nudge here.. but antibody levels fluctuate.... they can remain low for extended periods, just as they can remain high for extended periods.... Have your antibodies every tested high at any time in the past and may now just be in a suppressed state? ... or was your gland ever damaged in any way? Injury of some kind.... I've heard that car accidents, falls, etc, anything involving damage to the front of the neck can cause harm... It may very well be that it's just not able to produce enough... we all know that anything is possible.... But it would be interesting to figure out just what might be going on. See, I get kind curious when things are a bit different than the bulk of the population (for lack of a better phrase) in my own situation I have a genetic defect in that my TSH receptors don't work.... so in effect my body has never set up the communication loop involved between the Hypothalamus, Pituitary and Thyroid which are all involved with the TSH signal being increased or decreased. Because the thyroid has no instruction as to how much hormone to produce it kind of has it's own mind... in my case my gland gradually increased it's production until I was in thyroid storm, a state in which the gland is over producing at such a rate as to cause the body to begin to cannibalize tissue, and cause extreme stress and damage to itself.... it's also possible that with this defect the gland can choose to under produce causing a hypo, rather than hyper, state.... This defect is rare.... but I just get all curious... Topper ()Yahoo IM: toppertwo On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 05:12:17 -0800 (PST) Judy P <ygroupsjp (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> writes: , I understand all of this but I have a question about it. Since my thyroid is simply underactive, what will happen to it while Armour is suppressing the TSH to the point where it doesn't call on it to do anything? My concern is that it will atrophy without use or worse, some other disease will settle in. If it was removed or I had antibodies, I could understand total suppression, but I'm still having a hard time understanding why I wouldn't want to keep it as active as it can be. What are your thoughts on this? JudyP – If nothing changes, nothing changes. TOTAL-Thyroidectomy 26 months post-op. Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Sorry for the language.. but the dumb shits. There have been studies on folks that were diagnosed as Alzheimer's and as... can't think of the term.. the old age dementia that isn't Alzheimer's... anyway... T3 therapy with these folks relieved ALL their symptoms..... I don't have the link... can't remember where I read it... but these studies have been done... S.... were you and I talking about this... oh... maybe a year ago?? Low T3 with high T4 indicates poor conversion... poor conversion of T4 to T3 indicates that the conversion of T3 to T2 is also lousy and T2 to T1 is lousy.... T1 is the hormone that has been linked to brain function. Getting the T3 levels up... Free T3 to be specific is going to improve the body's overall function and give it a greater capability to convert the other active hormones (T2 and T1). Things that wouldn't be a bad idea to look into is whether or not there are high levels of reverse T3... some folks convert but convert a higher percentage of reverse instead of the usable kind.. that then dominos down the line leaving you with insufficient levels of T2 and T1 for the body to use. Remember... Free T3 and Free T4 test the levels of free hormone in the blood... we make the assumption that that is a percentage of the hormone that was taken, or produced, and the rest was used to fill hormone receptors and is in use by the body. It's possible, too, that receptors can be defective OR blocked with reverse hormone... there are other factors to check... But the bottom line is that if the Free T3 levels are not adequate it's pretty much a given that the other stuff isn't either... That T3 issue needs to be addressed. Options are getting more hormone into the body, optimizing conversion, getting the levels of the hormones stable.... and keeping on top of them with labs at least once a year, better, would be every six months, after those levels are optimal.... Oh my gosh... I'm on a rant now..... I just finished a survey.. I do a LOT of surveys, this one got me excited though... I signed confidentiality agreements on a great many and can't discuss specifics... so all I can say is that there is FINALLY someone asking questions specifically of hypothyroid patients involving information sources and medication choices... finally... someone is actually asking us questions!!!!! Doctors should know this stuff... If I can find information and apply it to people without some fancy medical degree... please... someone tell me how they can get away with not knowing these things? Topper () On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:23:35 -0800 (PST) E Gillespie writes: Topper: I have spent two years trying to get my mom in front of a doc who would run the proper bloods. Basically she is nuts and I have wondered since my own foray into this mess....if her shitzo ways are linked to low thyroid. I finally got her into see someone and they did an ultrasound and antibodies along with the tsh and frees. The only thing they found was a low in the range t3. Two of her sisters are "low thyroid" but I do not know the root cause of that. Now...the word around her docs is that she is dimented...but they think the hormone angle is moot. AND...now they want to talk to ME about it. YIKES!!!! ~E:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Sorry for the language.. but the dumb shits. There have been studies on folks that were diagnosed as Alzheimer's and as... can't think of the term.. the old age dementia that isn't Alzheimer's... anyway... T3 therapy with these folks relieved ALL their symptoms..... I don't have the link... can't remember where I read it... but these studies have been done... S.... were you and I talking about this... oh... maybe a year ago?? Low T3 with high T4 indicates poor conversion... poor conversion of T4 to T3 indicates that the conversion of T3 to T2 is also lousy and T2 to T1 is lousy.... T1 is the hormone that has been linked to brain function. Getting the T3 levels up... Free T3 to be specific is going to improve the body's overall function and give it a greater capability to convert the other active hormones (T2 and T1). Things that wouldn't be a bad idea to look into is whether or not there are high levels of reverse T3... some folks convert but convert a higher percentage of reverse instead of the usable kind.. that then dominos down the line leaving you with insufficient levels of T2 and T1 for the body to use. Remember... Free T3 and Free T4 test the levels of free hormone in the blood... we make the assumption that that is a percentage of the hormone that was taken, or produced, and the rest was used to fill hormone receptors and is in use by the body. It's possible, too, that receptors can be defective OR blocked with reverse hormone... there are other factors to check... But the bottom line is that if the Free T3 levels are not adequate it's pretty much a given that the other stuff isn't either... That T3 issue needs to be addressed. Options are getting more hormone into the body, optimizing conversion, getting the levels of the hormones stable.... and keeping on top of them with labs at least once a year, better, would be every six months, after those levels are optimal.... Oh my gosh... I'm on a rant now..... I just finished a survey.. I do a LOT of surveys, this one got me excited though... I signed confidentiality agreements on a great many and can't discuss specifics... so all I can say is that there is FINALLY someone asking questions specifically of hypothyroid patients involving information sources and medication choices... finally... someone is actually asking us questions!!!!! Doctors should know this stuff... If I can find information and apply it to people without some fancy medical degree... please... someone tell me how they can get away with not knowing these things? Topper () On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:23:35 -0800 (PST) E Gillespie writes: Topper: I have spent two years trying to get my mom in front of a doc who would run the proper bloods. Basically she is nuts and I have wondered since my own foray into this mess....if her shitzo ways are linked to low thyroid. I finally got her into see someone and they did an ultrasound and antibodies along with the tsh and frees. The only thing they found was a low in the range t3. Two of her sisters are "low thyroid" but I do not know the root cause of that. Now...the word around her docs is that she is dimented...but they think the hormone angle is moot. AND...now they want to talk to ME about it. YIKES!!!! ~E:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Thanks for your reply on this . I'm so frustrated since I'm still not REALLY well myself and I just want her to be functional enough so when I move out...I don't have to constantly worry over her. She had an electrolyte crash the other day. HAD to get her taken away in an ambulance. It was the diuretic in the BP med that caused it. SHE had them do the same thing to her a year ago....but this time required hospitilization. You would think her docs would monitor her electrolytes better. EVERYONE knows too much poopin' is bad for ya. Of course...I was busy trying to get the labs to show how the EVENT occured so I could take them into my hormone lady as she has given my mom her first script for Armour. I figure since she ran all the nurotransmitters and adrenal stuff, it would be best to have the entire picture in front of her when we see her next week. THE thing is now....HER regular doctors are after her about the dimentia and are telling me to keep her away from "the lady who thinks she's some kind of hormone expert"!!!! Naturally....since this mother of mine doesn't know how to stop talking...ALL she can do is make matters worse by saying outlandish things. She told the EMT folks that she was taking Armour for her sinuses........WHICH she is in an indirect way..(and that is how I convinced her to get into my hormone lady)...but as you can imagine this just sounds CRAZY. I am stuck thinking I have to go along with the dimentia testing hoping she doesn't get worked up telling him all kinds of odd things that will only make more determined to make sure she stays away from hormones. No...link between your brain and low thyroid. Right? NO way you could have a thyroid problem with a TSH of 1.7 .Right? I don't discuss all that much with my endo, so now I got to talk to her moron GP...who thinks its time to get into high gear and HELP? Grrr. ~E:) topper2@... wrote: Sorry for the language.. but the dumb shits. There have been studies on folks that were diagnosed as Alzheimer's and as... can't think of the term.. the old age dementia that isn't Alzheimer's... anyway... T3 therapy with these folks relieved ALL their symptoms..... I don't have the link... can't remember where I read it... but these studies have been done... S.... were you and I talking about this... oh... maybe a year ago?? Low T3 with high T4 indicates poor conversion... poor conversion of T4 to T3 indicates that the conversion of T3 to T2 is also lousy and T2 to T1 is lousy.... T1 is the hormone that has been linked to brain function. Getting the T3 levels up... Free T3 to be specific is going to improve the body's overall function and give it a greater capability to convert the other active hormones (T2 and T1). Things that wouldn't be a bad idea to look into is whether or not there are high levels of reverse T3... some folks convert but convert a higher percentage of reverse instead of the usable kind.. that then dominos down the line leaving you with insufficient levels of T2 and T1 for the body to use. Remember... Free T3 and Free T4 test the levels of free hormone in the blood... we make the assumption that that is a percentage of the hormone that was taken, or produced, and the rest was used to fill hormone receptors and is in use by the body. It's possible, too, that receptors can be defective OR blocked with reverse hormone... there are other factors to check... But the bottom line is that if the Free T3 levels are not adequate it's pretty much a given that the other stuff isn't either... That T3 issue needs to be addressed. Options are getting more hormone into the body, optimizing conversion, getting the levels of the hormones stable.... and keeping on top of them with labs at least once a year, better, would be every six months, after those levels are optimal.... Oh my gosh... I'm on a rant now..... I just finished a survey.. I do a LOT of surveys, this one got me excited though... I signed confidentiality agreements on a great many and can't discuss specifics... so all I can say is that there is FINALLY someone asking questions specifically of hypothyroid patients involving information sources and medication choices... finally... someone is actually asking us questions!!!!! Doctors should know this stuff... If I can find information and apply it to people without some fancy medical degree... please... someone tell me how they can get away with not knowing these things? Topper () On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:23:35 -0800 (PST) E Gillespie <lyongillespie (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> writes: Topper: I have spent two years trying to get my mom in front of a doc who would run the proper bloods. Basically she is nuts and I have wondered since my own foray into this mess....if her shitzo ways are linked to low thyroid. I finally got her into see someone and they did an ultrasound and antibodies along with the tsh and frees. The only thing they found was a low in the range t3. Two of her sisters are "low thyroid" but I do not know the root cause of that. Now...the word around her docs is that she is dimented...but they think the hormone angle is moot. AND...now they want to talk to ME about it. YIKES!!!! ~E:) TOTAL-Thyroidectomy 26 months post-op. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Thanks for your reply on this . I'm so frustrated since I'm still not REALLY well myself and I just want her to be functional enough so when I move out...I don't have to constantly worry over her. She had an electrolyte crash the other day. HAD to get her taken away in an ambulance. It was the diuretic in the BP med that caused it. SHE had them do the same thing to her a year ago....but this time required hospitilization. You would think her docs would monitor her electrolytes better. EVERYONE knows too much poopin' is bad for ya. Of course...I was busy trying to get the labs to show how the EVENT occured so I could take them into my hormone lady as she has given my mom her first script for Armour. I figure since she ran all the nurotransmitters and adrenal stuff, it would be best to have the entire picture in front of her when we see her next week. THE thing is now....HER regular doctors are after her about the dimentia and are telling me to keep her away from "the lady who thinks she's some kind of hormone expert"!!!! Naturally....since this mother of mine doesn't know how to stop talking...ALL she can do is make matters worse by saying outlandish things. She told the EMT folks that she was taking Armour for her sinuses........WHICH she is in an indirect way..(and that is how I convinced her to get into my hormone lady)...but as you can imagine this just sounds CRAZY. I am stuck thinking I have to go along with the dimentia testing hoping she doesn't get worked up telling him all kinds of odd things that will only make more determined to make sure she stays away from hormones. No...link between your brain and low thyroid. Right? NO way you could have a thyroid problem with a TSH of 1.7 .Right? I don't discuss all that much with my endo, so now I got to talk to her moron GP...who thinks its time to get into high gear and HELP? Grrr. ~E:) topper2@... wrote: Sorry for the language.. but the dumb shits. There have been studies on folks that were diagnosed as Alzheimer's and as... can't think of the term.. the old age dementia that isn't Alzheimer's... anyway... T3 therapy with these folks relieved ALL their symptoms..... I don't have the link... can't remember where I read it... but these studies have been done... S.... were you and I talking about this... oh... maybe a year ago?? Low T3 with high T4 indicates poor conversion... poor conversion of T4 to T3 indicates that the conversion of T3 to T2 is also lousy and T2 to T1 is lousy.... T1 is the hormone that has been linked to brain function. Getting the T3 levels up... Free T3 to be specific is going to improve the body's overall function and give it a greater capability to convert the other active hormones (T2 and T1). Things that wouldn't be a bad idea to look into is whether or not there are high levels of reverse T3... some folks convert but convert a higher percentage of reverse instead of the usable kind.. that then dominos down the line leaving you with insufficient levels of T2 and T1 for the body to use. Remember... Free T3 and Free T4 test the levels of free hormone in the blood... we make the assumption that that is a percentage of the hormone that was taken, or produced, and the rest was used to fill hormone receptors and is in use by the body. It's possible, too, that receptors can be defective OR blocked with reverse hormone... there are other factors to check... But the bottom line is that if the Free T3 levels are not adequate it's pretty much a given that the other stuff isn't either... That T3 issue needs to be addressed. Options are getting more hormone into the body, optimizing conversion, getting the levels of the hormones stable.... and keeping on top of them with labs at least once a year, better, would be every six months, after those levels are optimal.... Oh my gosh... I'm on a rant now..... I just finished a survey.. I do a LOT of surveys, this one got me excited though... I signed confidentiality agreements on a great many and can't discuss specifics... so all I can say is that there is FINALLY someone asking questions specifically of hypothyroid patients involving information sources and medication choices... finally... someone is actually asking us questions!!!!! Doctors should know this stuff... If I can find information and apply it to people without some fancy medical degree... please... someone tell me how they can get away with not knowing these things? Topper () On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:23:35 -0800 (PST) E Gillespie <lyongillespie (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> writes: Topper: I have spent two years trying to get my mom in front of a doc who would run the proper bloods. Basically she is nuts and I have wondered since my own foray into this mess....if her shitzo ways are linked to low thyroid. I finally got her into see someone and they did an ultrasound and antibodies along with the tsh and frees. The only thing they found was a low in the range t3. Two of her sisters are "low thyroid" but I do not know the root cause of that. Now...the word around her docs is that she is dimented...but they think the hormone angle is moot. AND...now they want to talk to ME about it. YIKES!!!! ~E:) TOTAL-Thyroidectomy 26 months post-op. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 This may be trite but I can feel your pain. My mother had a long descent into Alzheimer's. I noticed it over 11 years ago when she came for Mara's wedding, little things were odd, most notably she could not tell time. Anyway she continued in this vein. We live in MD and she lived back home in Brooklyn. Her skin became very thin and brittle and she would bruise easily. She told the doc I came during the night and beat her up. She told my cousins, who are really like my big sister and brother, the same. Even thought they knew she was failing mentally I got some nasty calls from her doc and cousins. Now I was in quite a pickle myself because I was on O2 and very obese. the doc was quite nasty, heavens knows what she told him about me and said he was calling the police and have them take me in handcuffs. Now I doubt that he could have jurisdiction in MD but I decided to really tell him off. Anyway, she also said folks were coming into her house and stealing her things.Also she told her very observant neighbor that we had joined a cult and it was a very odd wedding. Well it took place in our very own new shul and Mara's FIL married them along with 3 other Rabbis. We tried to bring her down here but things got so bad the doc here said, send her home and she will fail and then come down on her own terms. Ha, he didn't reckon with Mom. She ended up falling and laying on the floor for several days until I kept trying to call and was about ready to pack up and go when the call came. So she ended up in a nursing home in Brooklyn where I managed to see her a few times. My health is poor although a little better since GBP. Sorry to rant but I guess I really feel for you. Best, Bubbe Gittel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 This may be trite but I can feel your pain. My mother had a long descent into Alzheimer's. I noticed it over 11 years ago when she came for Mara's wedding, little things were odd, most notably she could not tell time. Anyway she continued in this vein. We live in MD and she lived back home in Brooklyn. Her skin became very thin and brittle and she would bruise easily. She told the doc I came during the night and beat her up. She told my cousins, who are really like my big sister and brother, the same. Even thought they knew she was failing mentally I got some nasty calls from her doc and cousins. Now I was in quite a pickle myself because I was on O2 and very obese. the doc was quite nasty, heavens knows what she told him about me and said he was calling the police and have them take me in handcuffs. Now I doubt that he could have jurisdiction in MD but I decided to really tell him off. Anyway, she also said folks were coming into her house and stealing her things.Also she told her very observant neighbor that we had joined a cult and it was a very odd wedding. Well it took place in our very own new shul and Mara's FIL married them along with 3 other Rabbis. We tried to bring her down here but things got so bad the doc here said, send her home and she will fail and then come down on her own terms. Ha, he didn't reckon with Mom. She ended up falling and laying on the floor for several days until I kept trying to call and was about ready to pack up and go when the call came. So she ended up in a nursing home in Brooklyn where I managed to see her a few times. My health is poor although a little better since GBP. Sorry to rant but I guess I really feel for you. Best, Bubbe Gittel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 This may be trite but I can feel your pain. My mother had a long descent into Alzheimer's. I noticed it over 11 years ago when she came for Mara's wedding, little things were odd, most notably she could not tell time. Anyway she continued in this vein. We live in MD and she lived back home in Brooklyn. Her skin became very thin and brittle and she would bruise easily. She told the doc I came during the night and beat her up. She told my cousins, who are really like my big sister and brother, the same. Even thought they knew she was failing mentally I got some nasty calls from her doc and cousins. Now I was in quite a pickle myself because I was on O2 and very obese. the doc was quite nasty, heavens knows what she told him about me and said he was calling the police and have them take me in handcuffs. Now I doubt that he could have jurisdiction in MD but I decided to really tell him off. Anyway, she also said folks were coming into her house and stealing her things.Also she told her very observant neighbor that we had joined a cult and it was a very odd wedding. Well it took place in our very own new shul and Mara's FIL married them along with 3 other Rabbis. We tried to bring her down here but things got so bad the doc here said, send her home and she will fail and then come down on her own terms. Ha, he didn't reckon with Mom. She ended up falling and laying on the floor for several days until I kept trying to call and was about ready to pack up and go when the call came. So she ended up in a nursing home in Brooklyn where I managed to see her a few times. My health is poor although a little better since GBP. Sorry to rant but I guess I really feel for you. Best, Bubbe Gittel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 That has to be frustrating.... I'm just sitting here shaking my head.... TSH of 1.7 is fine, don't look at the whole picture.... takes me back to the car analogies.... car don't steer for S**T and you take it in to the service guy... he check tie rods and steering mechanisms and charges a thousand dollars to fix all this stuff is worn out..... ..... because...... one of the front tires is low on air pressure... Six months later you're back getting all this stuff fixed again, cuz you're still driving around on a tire with low pressure throwing off the alignment, making it hard to steer..... sigh... All we need is a blasted tired gauge and an air pump and we're just fine. .... please.... ... end of rant.... Topper ()Yahoo IM: toppertwo On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:23:20 -0800 (PST) E Gillespie writes: Thanks for your reply on this . I'm so frustrated since I'm still not REALLY well myself and I just want her to be functional enough so when I move out...I don't have to constantly worry over her. She had an electrolyte crash the other day. HAD to get her taken away in an ambulance. It was the diuretic in the BP med that caused it. SHE had them do the same thing to her a year ago....but this time required hospitilization. You would think her docs would monitor her electrolytes better. EVERYONE knows too much poopin' is bad for ya. Of course...I was busy trying to get the labs to show how the EVENT occured so I could take them into my hormone lady as she has given my mom her first script for Armour. I figure since she ran all the nurotransmitters and adrenal stuff, it would be best to have the entire picture in front of her when we see her next week. THE thing is now....HER regular doctors are after her about the dimentia and are telling me to keep her away from "the lady who thinks she's some kind of hormone expert"!!!! Naturally....since this mother of mine doesn't know how to stop talking...ALL she can do is make matters worse by saying outlandish things. She told the EMT folks that she was taking Armour for her sinuses........WHICH she is in an indirect way..(and that is how I convinced her to get into my hormone lady)...but as you can imagine this just sounds CRAZY. I am stuck thinking I have to go along with the dimentia testing hoping she doesn't get worked up telling him all kinds of odd things that will only make more determined to make sure she stays away from hormones. No...link between your brain and low thyroid. Right? NO way you could have a thyroid problem with a TSH of 1.7 .Right? I don't discuss all that much with my endo, so now I got to talk to her moron GP...who thinks its time to get into high gear and HELP? Grrr. ~E:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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