Re: Any Opinions about Dr Buttar and TD-DMPS?/Timing/Dave

[Guest guest]

, I was not angry. But I believe that Andy is lying, and I

like to call a liar a liar when he is a liar, and it does perplex me

that he invents statistics so boldly. He is baldly misrepresenting

things. You can believe what he says below, but anybody can check

things out for themselves. I don't believe his 11, not for a minute,

and this sort of pulling people out of thin air is what he did with

TTFD. All of sudden these numbers of people who have had trouble

appear, when other people on other lists are not reporting this sort

of thing. I am switching to Dr. Usman as a doctor, who is prescribing

TD-DMPS on MORE patients now that Dr. Buttar, and she is not finding

this sort of reaction. So he's just making up a percentage that

doesn't exist. There are rashes reported, but nothing like what he is

claiming he's heard. Then I object and to diffuse the issue he labels

me as angry, under Buttar's spell, having ulterior motives, etc. This

list is poisoned by him, because he will continue claiming that even

when all evidence stands against him. You can access Buttar's Autism

One protocol and see what he claims regarding the 19, you can track

everything else. If you choose to believe Andy, who has an obvious

personal, ego, monetary reason to do this, you can do that. And the

story about the Heyl representative is not from Buttar, as he claims.

That story was reported by another parent who knows the Heyl

representative in the U.S. and her history. I am not fond of Buttar,

I think his ego is as big as Andy's, I said on this list that I

thought his claims or overblown, but do you see how Andy is trying to

label me as some blind follower of him? Why didn't you object to

that, and attribute that to some kind of anger issue with him and

suggest he get some grief counseling, or perhaps adequate mercury

detox to deal with his issues?

Rose

> VERY true that anger is easier, albeit useless, to handle than

grief, loss or panic.

>

>

> [ ] Re: Any Opinions about Dr Buttar and TD-

DMPS?/Timing/Dave

>

>

>

> > > Issues I have:

> > >

> > > 1. The reports of adverse reactions in the form of skin

> > inflammation,

> > > bleeding, and scarring at the application site which are

being

> > > minimized, criticized and otherwise weaseled out of by the

> > advocates

> > > rather than addressed. My estimate is that this is about 11%

> > > incidence.

> > >

> > The only report (not reports) of bleeding and scarring there

has been

> > ois from one parent,

>

> There are 11 reports by 11 different parents that I am aware of.

>

> > from what I understand. This parent reported to

> > an anti-Buttar representative from Heyl,

>

> The Heyl represenative is not anti-Buttar. Chaacterizing it this

way

> indicates a lack of understanding of any relevant issues, people,

> organizations, and their legal and ethical obligations.

>

> > who used the report to try

> > to restrict access to Heyl's product.

>

> Heyl, Inc. chooses not to distribute DMPS in the United States

> presently. Their sales representative in the US does not have

the

> authority to make such decisions, it was made by their

headquarters

> senior management I am sure.

>

> > This has more to do with egos

>

> Perhaps yours and Dr. Buttar's, certainly not those of anyone at

Heyl.

>

> It is very difficult to see how a company can be trashed out on

for NOT

> selling a product when they lose money by doing that.

>

> > than the reality. I know of no other child who got anything

> > representing anything like this.

>

> Please describe the details of your investigations regarding

this. Do

> they consist of anything furhter than accepting Dr. Buttar's

statements

> on the issue?

>

> > The rashes that have been reported

> > are mostly transient, except in the most sensitive child. There

> > rashes are transient, period. Let's not spread the

misrepresentation.

>

> I do not believe this is a misrepresentation. To the best of my

> knowledge it is accurate.

>

> I do not consider transient rashes to be an adverse reaction, and

do

> not count them as such.

>

> In all honesty, if I was sure all that was happening is some kids

> develop sores that bleed a little and then scar I would simply

suggest

> people consider this possibility when deciding where to apply the

> stuff. The problem is the lack of accurate information about

what is

> going on (which in all honesty it isn't reasonable to expect

anyone to

> have at present since it is hard to figure out what is really

causing

> the skin lesions) plus the very high level of sophistry,

propaganda,

> miosleading and false information, etc. as exemplified by your

response

> to my post.

>

> While this aggressive propaganda campaign does not in and of

itself

> contain any real information about the details of other adverse

> reactions, it does lead any reasonable person to wonder what else

is

> going on that they haven't heard about yet.

>

> > It's not fair to take the only severe case and extrapolate from

this

> > to a large population. To estimate 11% is perhaps accurate for

the

> > rashes,

>

> To the best of my knowledge it is accurate for serious skin

lesions

> that leak serum or blood. Rashes are more common.

>

> >but I've seen these rashes and they aren't scary, and they

> > are transient in all but a handful.

>

> Rashes (if reasonably mild and localized) aren't scary.

>

> Honestly, a little blood isn't scary either, though I think I'll

have a

> lot of parents hollering at me if I insist on that too strongly.

The

> real issue is what is going on since these are new types of

reactions,

> what is causing it, and does it have any long term effects?

>

> > > 2. the almost uniform reports of parents who start doing this

about

> > the

> > > details of their kid's behavior and status that sound exactly

like

> > what

> > > happens on other inappropriate chelation protocols.

> > >

> > I see no difference, really, in the reports I've read between

what I

> > saw with DMSA and DMSA/ALA.

>

> Then you shouild read them again.

>

> . what is being reported as redistribution

> > is for my son and most others just the stimminess that came

with

> > those protocols.

> >

> > > 3. The fact that I haven't yet seen any DATA from Dr. Buttar,

and

> > > people who have attended many presentations of his have said

the

> > slides

> > > containing the data were always " inadvertently left out. "

Also the

> > > fact that I have heard claims from his different

presentations of

> > 30/

> > > 31, 19/31 and 22/31 " cured. "

> >

> > This is a misrepresentation. The slides are there.

>

> I would greatly appreciate being provided with them.

>

> > You are speaking

> > with 2nd hand incorrect information. He initially said 19,

>

> He initially said 30 at the AutismOne conference in Chicago,

where I

> got his hand out and it did in fact claim 30/31 responding to

> treatment.

>

> > that has

> > gradually increased to 22 children that he calls recovered. I

have

> > been told these two numbers consistently, and it was a gradual

> > increase from 19 to 22. The 30 was a misrepresentation,

>

> No it isn't.

>

> Apparently you have no accurate information on any of these

topics.

> Perhaps you can restrain yourself from posting in the future when

you

> are just mad at me and want to argue until after you get accurate

> information in hand?

>

> > I have never heard that in any presentation,

>

> It is what he said over Memorial day in Chicago at AutismOne and

what

> was in the handouts for his talk.

>

> > which you can access. I think just

> > like any protocol, this is susceptible to word of mouth

> > misrepresentations,

>

> I am sure it is. This is why I try to get real information and

verify

> it. You should consider doing the same before posting next time.

>

> > but it is unfair to repeat these without first-

> > hand information that IS available.

> >

> > And there's the rub... the claims may be overblown, but Dr.

Buttar is

> > putting a videotape of before and after, and the test results

of

> > mercury excretion on a video. So of those 31, we will have at

least 5

> > of them on videotape. So often the parents want their children

to

> > go " under the radar. " One of the children who I have heard

report

> > from who is " unrecovered " from the first study group is

> > extraordinarily improved. Those parent reports are hard to

ignore,

> > damned hard.

> >

> > In addition, as " rgtarheel " reported, we now have significant

#s of

> > older kids who tried the DMSA and DMSA/ALA who didn't have

results

> > who are reporting results with TD-DMPS. It's a significant #,

> > including my son, though as yet I won't be shouting anything

from the

> > rooftops till I have a longer experience to report. Again, with

him,

> > there is no, absolutely no, difference with what is

> > called " redistribution " issues with DMSA/ALA and what we

experienced

> > with DMSA and DMSA/ALA.

>

> I hope whatever you do works well for your son.

>

> Please, however, direct your emotional distress at your son's

condition

> being difficult to treat into some avenue other than arguing with

me on

> this list about everything I say. It is really quite disruptive

as

> well as being impolite, intolerant, and a major waste of

everyone's

> time.

>

> I find it unlikely you will do this so I will neither read nor

respond

> to your posts in the future.

>

> Andy .. . . . . .

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>>> But I believe that Andy is lying, and I like to call a liar a

liar when he is a liar, and it does perplex me that he invents

statistics so boldly.>>>>>>>>

First of all, I have never known Andy to purposely lie about

anything. He has helped many of us here over and over again. If you

don't agree with his opinion and standing on a issue that is fine,

but lets not get so carried away that we start calling people names,

etc. I don't always agree with Andy, and I've stated and/or

questioned chelation as a whole, because of my own experience, but

in doing that, I have never found Andy to be disrespectful of my

opinion.

I do not feel DMSA helped my son to detox. I feel it all centered

on the antioxidant portion. Does this make me a liar or does this

mean chelation with DMSA is bunk? I hardly think so, because others

here have had great results. I did not, others did not. It is not

a cut and dry issue.

>>>>>>He is baldly misrepresenting things. You can believe what he

says below, but anybody can check things out for themselves.>>>>>>>>>

Yes they can, and I encourage anyone and everyone to research any

approach they consider. I researched DMSA. I tried it on my son.

I came to my own opinion on chelation as a whole. I'm still here. I

don't necessarily agree with chelation (DMSA), but that's my

opinion, based on my experience.

>>>>>>>>>This list is poisoned by him, because he will continue

claiming that even when all evidence stands against him. You can

access Buttar's Autism One protocol and see what he claims regarding

the 19, you can track everything else.>>>>>>>>

Come on, really? The list is poisoned by Andy? I've been here for

a long time, and not once did I feel the list was " poisoned " by

him. Don't read his posts if you don't like them. I sometimes skip

them.

>>>>>>>If you choose to believe Andy, who has an obvious personal,

ego, monetary reason to do this, you can do that.>>>>>>>

I'm currently finishing a cookbook on the GFCF diet. My son

responded well to it. He's been on the diet for 6 years now....so

does this mean that if I help another on the list, that I'm doing so

based on the fact that when I sell my book I'm making money off of

it? Everyone has to make a living, don't they?

Andy offers his help for free. You don't have to buy his books. I

don't have his books, nor has he ever profited from his guidance

with respect to my son. On the other hand, I did spend thousands of

dollars on two different DAN doctors, and what did I get out of

it??? Nothing. My son did not get better. He got better once I

took control and did it on my own...with the guidance of others

here, not just Andy.

Lets not start slinging here, any more than we have. I don't like

to step in, because I believe in sharing everyone's view. However,

calling people " liars " or attacking him serves no purpose

whatsover. You don't have to agree with anyone here, but you do

need to be respectful, because we are all going through way too

much, and most of us do not have time to read mud slinging messages,

especially the new people here.

a - Moderator and mother to 3 great kids; Alec 10.4, 8.6

(ASD), and 6.9

[Guest guest]

Andy,

can you please help me clarify? Would someone with tourette's or tics be

considered to have problems with the motor neurons?

Thanks,

Sharon

-- [ ] Re: Any Opinions about Dr Buttar and

TD-DMPS?/Timing/Dave

> Comparisons are being made between DMSA and TD-DMPS. How would oral DMPS

and

> TD-DMPS compare? I'm not sure you can fairly compare oral DMSA with

TD-DMPS.

> They are different compounds but DMPS given orally versus transdermally

should

> be able to be compared.

> Ken

I agree this would be the ideal comparison, but no large group of

people was given DMPS every day or every other day. Large groups were

given DMSA this way. DMPS and DMSA are fairly similar molecules, also

fairly similar in their chelating effects. They are similar but not

identical in terms of their adverse reactions, with DMSA tending to

induce more motor neuron problems and emotional volatility with poor

judgment and suspicion while DMPS induces more liver issues and anxious

agitated depression.

Andy . . . . . . ..

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

a,

Excuse me, but where were you when he was saying vile things about

, , me, McCandless? Why wasn't he called on this? What

prompted you to target me rather than the legion of comments he has

made that are rude, obnoxious, obviously intended to hurt? I have

never known Andy to be nice, so why are we required to adhere to

different standards? Just look at what he says about me in the post

that prompted this response. Why is Andy allowed to get away with

this, an attempt at hurtful statements, but you call me on my

statements about him in his original post, which are factual (that

is, Buttar never claimed 30 cured, that is a lie, which can be fact-

checked by listening to the autism one on-line)? I would say o.k.

this is unacceptable if you would have come in to say anything about

his nastiness, vile comments to others before. You can suggest that

my words were harsh, but Andy likes to use invective, and that's all

I was doing, using invective, he says it's more effective, and you

never commented on that. Is it o.k. for him and not for others? Look

at the message he sent about me that prompted my response, and the

incredibly rude things he's said in the past. Let me get this clear,

are there two standards, one for Andy and one for the rest of us?

On the issue of your example with the cookbooks and so forth, no, I

do not think it would be wrong for you to do this and in fact I would

think that it would be very appropriate to do this. But I would only

think so with the perspective of full disclosure, which means you

have a bias. I was simply pointing out that he is not just advocating

his protocol, he is scaring people about another protocol, attacking

it and spreading misinformation about the person associated with it.

So the equivalent with you and your cookbook would be that you would

go on another list and say, without evidence, that 11% of the kids

who try SCD diet get worse, get gastric distress etc and have

terrible results. It would be logical and really reasonable for

people to point out that you have a self-interest in trashing the

diet. In other words, full-disclosure. Somehow, Andy gets away with

trashing other regimens as though he has no personal stake in this.

It is fine for him to share his information, but when he attacks

another protocol without evidence I think it's very inappropriate,

especially when he gives statistics and refuses to back them up, as

he did in other situations. It's not like he is a distant observor.

Rose

>

> >>>>>> But I believe that Andy is lying, and I like to call a liar

a

> liar when he is a liar, and it does perplex me that he invents

> statistics so boldly.>>>>>>>>

>

>

> First of all, I have never known Andy to purposely lie about

> anything. He has helped many of us here over and over again. If

you

> don't agree with his opinion and standing on a issue that is fine,

> but lets not get so carried away that we start calling people

names,

> etc. I don't always agree with Andy, and I've stated and/or

> questioned chelation as a whole, because of my own experience, but

> in doing that, I have never found Andy to be disrespectful of my

> opinion.

>

> I do not feel DMSA helped my son to detox. I feel it all centered

> on the antioxidant portion. Does this make me a liar or does this

> mean chelation with DMSA is bunk? I hardly think so, because

others

> here have had great results. I did not, others did not. It is not

> a cut and dry issue.

>

>

> >>>>>>He is baldly misrepresenting things. You can believe what he

> says below, but anybody can check things out for

themselves.>>>>>>>>>

>

>

> Yes they can, and I encourage anyone and everyone to research any

> approach they consider. I researched DMSA. I tried it on my son.

> I came to my own opinion on chelation as a whole. I'm still here.

I

> don't necessarily agree with chelation (DMSA), but that's my

> opinion, based on my experience.

>

>

> >>>>>>>>>This list is poisoned by him, because he will continue

> claiming that even when all evidence stands against him. You can

> access Buttar's Autism One protocol and see what he claims

regarding

> the 19, you can track everything else.>>>>>>>>

>

>

> Come on, really? The list is poisoned by Andy? I've been here for

> a long time, and not once did I feel the list was " poisoned " by

> him. Don't read his posts if you don't like them. I sometimes

skip

> them.

>

>

> >>>>>>>If you choose to believe Andy, who has an obvious personal,

> ego, monetary reason to do this, you can do that.>>>>>>>

>

>

> I'm currently finishing a cookbook on the GFCF diet. My son

> responded well to it. He's been on the diet for 6 years now....so

> does this mean that if I help another on the list, that I'm doing

so

> based on the fact that when I sell my book I'm making money off of

> it? Everyone has to make a living, don't they?

>

> Andy offers his help for free. You don't have to buy his books. I

> don't have his books, nor has he ever profited from his guidance

> with respect to my son. On the other hand, I did spend thousands

of

> dollars on two different DAN doctors, and what did I get out of

> it??? Nothing. My son did not get better. He got better once I

> took control and did it on my own...with the guidance of others

> here, not just Andy.

>

> Lets not start slinging here, any more than we have. I don't like

> to step in, because I believe in sharing everyone's view. However,

> calling people " liars " or attacking him serves no purpose

> whatsover. You don't have to agree with anyone here, but you do

> need to be respectful, because we are all going through way too

> much, and most of us do not have time to read mud slinging

messages,

> especially the new people here.

>

> a - Moderator and mother to 3 great kids; Alec 10.4, 8.6

> (ASD), and 6.9

[Guest guest]

Mandy,

So, do you really think that 100 people of the total of 800 parents

of kids NATIONWIDE that are on TD-DMPS have reported to Andy Cutler

already, and that 11 of those kids have had bleeding, etc? 1/8th of

the population who has used it has reported to Andy? That's what it

would take, he says 11 kids, so that would mean 11 out of 100 to make

his statement believeable? Sorry, I don't believe it. Rose

> Rose the difference is figures doesn;t mean Andy is lying at all.

It just

> means the people with negative effects TALK to him and don;t post

where we are

> both reading. Like you I was only aware of one incident.

>

> This is what is so infruriating about different lists. If we were

all on one

> then these problems wouldn;t arise................

> Mandi in UK

>

> , I was not angry. But I believe that Andy is lying, and I

> like to call a liar a liar when he is a liar, and it does perplex

me

> that he invents statistics so boldly. He is baldly misrepresenting

> things. You can believe what he says below, but anybody can check

> things out for themselves. I don't believe his 11, not for a

minute,

> and this sort of pulling people out of thin air is what he did

with

> TTFD. All of sudden these numbers of people who have had trouble

> appear, when other people on other lists are not reporting this

sort

> of thing.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rose:

I promise I will investigate this for myself. Having said that, I have to tell

you that I have little time for all of this contention. I won't begin to tell

you all the constraints I have in my life, the most important being my

beautiful, just turned four year old granddaughter who is my main focus here and

needs ALL of my energies directed into helping her. My comment was not meant for

you, but for me, to remind me not to get sidetracked from the main mission in my

life, to get her well.

I know this heartbreak and I know how easy and comforting it is to be angry.

Anger is an emotion I can not afford at this time.

All of this acrimony is unnecessary and juvenile. Just calmly state your

position and let others decide. In my experience, lies always come to light.

I sincerely wish you and your angel Ben the best of luck.

Warmly,

[ ] Re: Any Opinions about Dr Buttar and TD-

DMPS?/Timing/Dave

>

>

>

> > > Issues I have:

> > >

> > > 1. The reports of adverse reactions in the form of skin

> > inflammation,

> > > bleeding, and scarring at the application site which are

being

> > > minimized, criticized and otherwise weaseled out of by the

> > advocates

> > > rather than addressed. My estimate is that this is about 11%

> > > incidence.

> > >

> > The only report (not reports) of bleeding and scarring there

has been

> > ois from one parent,

>

> There are 11 reports by 11 different parents that I am aware of.

>

> > from what I understand. This parent reported to

> > an anti-Buttar representative from Heyl,

>

> The Heyl represenative is not anti-Buttar. Chaacterizing it this

way

> indicates a lack of understanding of any relevant issues, people,

> organizations, and their legal and ethical obligations.

>

> > who used the report to try

> > to restrict access to Heyl's product.

>

> Heyl, Inc. chooses not to distribute DMPS in the United States

> presently. Their sales representative in the US does not have

the

> authority to make such decisions, it was made by their

headquarters

> senior management I am sure.

>

> > This has more to do with egos

>

> Perhaps yours and Dr. Buttar's, certainly not those of anyone at

Heyl.

>

> It is very difficult to see how a company can be trashed out on

for NOT

> selling a product when they lose money by doing that.

>

> > than the reality. I know of no other child who got anything

> > representing anything like this.

>

> Please describe the details of your investigations regarding

this. Do

> they consist of anything furhter than accepting Dr. Buttar's

statements

> on the issue?

>

> > The rashes that have been reported

> > are mostly transient, except in the most sensitive child. There

> > rashes are transient, period. Let's not spread the

misrepresentation.

>

> I do not believe this is a misrepresentation. To the best of my

> knowledge it is accurate.

>

> I do not consider transient rashes to be an adverse reaction, and

do

> not count them as such.

>

> In all honesty, if I was sure all that was happening is some kids

> develop sores that bleed a little and then scar I would simply

suggest

> people consider this possibility when deciding where to apply the

> stuff. The problem is the lack of accurate information about

what is

> going on (which in all honesty it isn't reasonable to expect

anyone to

> have at present since it is hard to figure out what is really

causing

> the skin lesions) plus the very high level of sophistry,

propaganda,

> miosleading and false information, etc. as exemplified by your

response

> to my post.

>

> While this aggressive propaganda campaign does not in and of

itself

> contain any real information about the details of other adverse

> reactions, it does lead any reasonable person to wonder what else

is

> going on that they haven't heard about yet.

>

> > It's not fair to take the only severe case and extrapolate from

this

> > to a large population. To estimate 11% is perhaps accurate for

the

> > rashes,

>

> To the best of my knowledge it is accurate for serious skin

lesions

> that leak serum or blood. Rashes are more common.

>

> >but I've seen these rashes and they aren't scary, and they

> > are transient in all but a handful.

>

> Rashes (if reasonably mild and localized) aren't scary.

>

> Honestly, a little blood isn't scary either, though I think I'll

have a

> lot of parents hollering at me if I insist on that too strongly.

The

> real issue is what is going on since these are new types of

reactions,

> what is causing it, and does it have any long term effects?

>

> > > 2. the almost uniform reports of parents who start doing this

about

> > the

> > > details of their kid's behavior and status that sound exactly

like

> > what

> > > happens on other inappropriate chelation protocols.

> > >

> > I see no difference, really, in the reports I've read between

what I

> > saw with DMSA and DMSA/ALA.

>

> Then you shouild read them again.

>

> . what is being reported as redistribution

> > is for my son and most others just the stimminess that came

with

> > those protocols.

> >

> > > 3. The fact that I haven't yet seen any DATA from Dr. Buttar,

and

> > > people who have attended many presentations of his have said

the

> > slides

> > > containing the data were always " inadvertently left out. "

Also the

> > > fact that I have heard claims from his different

presentations of

> > 30/

> > > 31, 19/31 and 22/31 " cured. "

> >

> > This is a misrepresentation. The slides are there.

>

> I would greatly appreciate being provided with them.

>

> > You are speaking

> > with 2nd hand incorrect information. He initially said 19,

>

> He initially said 30 at the AutismOne conference in Chicago,

where I

> got his hand out and it did in fact claim 30/31 responding to

> treatment.

>

> > that has

> > gradually increased to 22 children that he calls recovered. I

have

> > been told these two numbers consistently, and it was a gradual

> > increase from 19 to 22. The 30 was a misrepresentation,

>

> No it isn't.

>

> Apparently you have no accurate information on any of these

topics.

> Perhaps you can restrain yourself from posting in the future when

you

> are just mad at me and want to argue until after you get accurate

> information in hand?

>

> > I have never heard that in any presentation,

>

> It is what he said over Memorial day in Chicago at AutismOne and

what

> was in the handouts for his talk.

>

> > which you can access. I think just

> > like any protocol, this is susceptible to word of mouth

> > misrepresentations,

>

> I am sure it is. This is why I try to get real information and

verify

> it. You should consider doing the same before posting next time.

>

> > but it is unfair to repeat these without first-

> > hand information that IS available.

> >

> > And there's the rub... the claims may be overblown, but Dr.

Buttar is

> > putting a videotape of before and after, and the test results

of

> > mercury excretion on a video. So of those 31, we will have at

least 5

> > of them on videotape. So often the parents want their children

to

> > go " under the radar. " One of the children who I have heard

report

> > from who is " unrecovered " from the first study group is

> > extraordinarily improved. Those parent reports are hard to

ignore,

> > damned hard.

> >

> > In addition, as " rgtarheel " reported, we now have significant

#s of

> > older kids who tried the DMSA and DMSA/ALA who didn't have

results

> > who are reporting results with TD-DMPS. It's a significant #,

> > including my son, though as yet I won't be shouting anything

from the

> > rooftops till I have a longer experience to report. Again, with

him,

> > there is no, absolutely no, difference with what is

> > called " redistribution " issues with DMSA/ALA and what we

experienced

> > with DMSA and DMSA/ALA.

>

> I hope whatever you do works well for your son.

>

> Please, however, direct your emotional distress at your son's

condition

> being difficult to treat into some avenue other than arguing with

me on

> this list about everything I say. It is really quite disruptive

as

> well as being impolite, intolerant, and a major waste of

everyone's

> time.

>

> I find it unlikely you will do this so I will neither read nor

respond

> to your posts in the future.

>

> Andy .. . . . . .

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

->

> >>>>>>>If you choose to believe Andy, who has an obvious personal,

> ego, monetary reason to do this, you can do that.>>>>>>>

Hi Rose,

I am sorry that this is all so seemingly painful for you. I know how tempting

it can be to

personally attack people when we disagree with them, as my husband will attest,

but I

think there might be more constructive ways of saying what you want to say.

I just had to respond to this thing about Andy being money-motivated...Totally

Disagree

here. He must spend hours responding to posts from people on this list, which

he doesn't

have to do. I think it's because he cares. Even if every person that he helped

bought his

book, I (no offense Andy) don't think that this would make him rich. Not only

does he

respond to posts, but he works out lab figures and hair analyses and does time-

consuming tasks for FREE.

Please don't think though that I am AGAINST you in any way. I am very curious

to see how

all the TD-DMPS cases go and I wish you WELL. I have my own 2 1/2 year old son

on deck

and I'm afraid to try any of it because he is not necessarily on the spectrum,

but does have

issues and delays and irregular lab values. When I hear of kids that regress

while

chelating, I shiver in my boots

Please keep posting, but know that it's okay to have different opinions. I know

Andy can

come on strong when he has a strong opinion, but I've also spoken to him on the

phone,

and I find him very respectful and open, even when he thinks I'm trying

chelation snake-oil

type cures.

My best to you, Jill

[Guest guest]

a:

Could you share more about the antioxidant information that you found useful? I

would appreciate knowing what your experience has taught you.

Thanks,

[ ] Re: Any Opinions about Dr Buttar and

TD-DMPS?/Timing/Dave

>>>>>> But I believe that Andy is lying, and I like to call a liar a

liar when he is a liar, and it does perplex me that he invents

statistics so boldly.>>>>>>>>

First of all, I have never known Andy to purposely lie about

anything. He has helped many of us here over and over again. If you

don't agree with his opinion and standing on a issue that is fine,

but lets not get so carried away that we start calling people names,

etc. I don't always agree with Andy, and I've stated and/or

questioned chelation as a whole, because of my own experience, but

in doing that, I have never found Andy to be disrespectful of my

opinion.

I do not feel DMSA helped my son to detox. I feel it all centered

on the antioxidant portion. Does this make me a liar or does this

mean chelation with DMSA is bunk? I hardly think so, because others

here have had great results. I did not, others did not. It is not

a cut and dry issue.

>>>>>>He is baldly misrepresenting things. You can believe what he

says below, but anybody can check things out for themselves.>>>>>>>>>

Yes they can, and I encourage anyone and everyone to research any

approach they consider. I researched DMSA. I tried it on my son.

I came to my own opinion on chelation as a whole. I'm still here. I

don't necessarily agree with chelation (DMSA), but that's my

opinion, based on my experience.

>>>>>>>>>This list is poisoned by him, because he will continue

claiming that even when all evidence stands against him. You can

access Buttar's Autism One protocol and see what he claims regarding

the 19, you can track everything else.>>>>>>>>

Come on, really? The list is poisoned by Andy? I've been here for

a long time, and not once did I feel the list was " poisoned " by

him. Don't read his posts if you don't like them. I sometimes skip

them.

>>>>>>>If you choose to believe Andy, who has an obvious personal,

ego, monetary reason to do this, you can do that.>>>>>>>

I'm currently finishing a cookbook on the GFCF diet. My son

responded well to it. He's been on the diet for 6 years now....so

does this mean that if I help another on the list, that I'm doing so

based on the fact that when I sell my book I'm making money off of

it? Everyone has to make a living, don't they?

Andy offers his help for free. You don't have to buy his books. I

don't have his books, nor has he ever profited from his guidance

with respect to my son. On the other hand, I did spend thousands of

dollars on two different DAN doctors, and what did I get out of

it??? Nothing. My son did not get better. He got better once I

took control and did it on my own...with the guidance of others

here, not just Andy.

Lets not start slinging here, any more than we have. I don't like

to step in, because I believe in sharing everyone's view. However,

calling people " liars " or attacking him serves no purpose

whatsover. You don't have to agree with anyone here, but you do

need to be respectful, because we are all going through way too

much, and most of us do not have time to read mud slinging messages,

especially the new people here.

a - Moderator and mother to 3 great kids; Alec 10.4, 8.6

(ASD), and 6.9

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> What dosage for dmps@8hr/3days are you using? Thanks.

>

I wrote it in more detail to Mandi in another post, but in case you

miss it: The target TD DMPS dose is one drop per lb, for my 34 lb

child it was 34 drops every 48 hours, but my doc recomended 15 drops

to start. I calculated that in two weeks, 7 doses, I would have

given him 105 drops.

I took that dose and divided them into 3 times a day, 6 days (two

rounds in two weeks) and got 6 drops a dose. I have been giving him

7 drops since while tinkering I discovered that 8 drops were too

much for him. After all these rounds, though, I am ready to up his

dose a little.

Warmly,

Raquel

[Guest guest]

a:

Thanks, best wishes for you and your family.

Warmly,

Re: [ ] Re: Any Opinions about Dr Buttar and

TD-DMPS?/Timing/Dave

When we began chelation I started on an antioxidant, which was in a

capsule form. My son was able to swallow pills, so I would devide the dose of

this antioxidant and DMSA/ALA into one capsule, so it made the whole process

easier. On his off days, he continued to get two doses of a multi/antioxidant

mix. I used 3 days on, 11 off protocol; dosing every 3-4 hours. During the 3

days on would become very hostile and much more irritated. On his days off,

he was like a different kid. We continued chelating for about 9 months, and the

only change I ever saw was on his days off the DMSA. I eventually stopped,

because was not dumping anything into his urine, and there was no

noticeable change with him, other than his behavior would become worse during

chelation. I eventually shoved all the chelation stuff to the back of the

cabinet, and concentrated on the one problematic area....the one that had always

been there; behavior.

Behavior was the one hurdle that never seemed possible to get over. After a

year of several med trials, I was at my wits end. It seemed I would never

figure out the one remaining piece of the puzzle. The one that set apart

from everyone else.....and drove me nuts...the darn behavior. I stopped the

meds and went back to the drawing board.

One day my oldest son made a remark that I would finally put the last puzzle

piece in place. He came to me after his brother had a horrid day at camp and he

said, " Why don't you put back on the pill you used during chelation? You

know, his happy pill. " We used to call the plain antioxidant his happy pill.

So, I went to the cub board and pulled out the bottle. I read the ingredient

list, and several things popped out; the amount of B6, C, A and E. It made me

wonder if this was what was missing. I put him back on the antioxidant,

and boom....literally overnight he was transformed. He was calmer, more

compliant, his attention improved, he was happier...you name it. I was

thrilled. I eventually changed and tweaked things. He now takes B6/magnesium

therapy, and an antioxidant formula that was more scaled down. I eventually

added GABA and Gingko Biloba into the mix, and it has been 16 months since we

re-started all of this, and has never had a bad moment....knock on wood.

He went from having a 1:1 aide to being partially mainstreamed with no aide at

all. Next year he will be mainstreamed in all subjects but two; language arts

and math. He still struggles a bit with these, but he no longer struggles at

all with behavioral issues. He gets great report cards, including an A in

conduct and effort.

I hope this helps.

a

-- " Cochran " <Ladyshrink111@...> wrote:

a:

Could you share more about the antioxidant information that you found useful?

I would appreciate knowing what your experience has taught you.

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