Re: Calling mikeuggen; swayback

[Guest guest]

I have several back issues; spondilothesis; bone spurs; budging

discs - on top of the usual slipping and sliding joints etc. What I

wanted to ask about was specifically my sway back. I have recently

realized that this is from shortened muscles in the back. Other

then the whole stretching regiment (which always seems temporary to

me -- they seem to shorten back within minutes) is there anything

you can suggest for them? Is sway back similar to muscles that are

shortened? Is the surgery for releasing that actually cutting of

the tendons or muscles? It just seems that I would be able to help

my spondy site if I could release these muscles? As you can see I

have not read up that much on sway back and the importance that it

plays in spondilothesis issues.

-----------------

OK - " Swayback " is technically called lordosis and is one of the

three abnormal spinal curvatures: head up and back, abdomen forward.

The other two are " hunchback " or kyphosis, which is head down and

forward, and scoliosis which is a a side bending curvature.

There are multiple possible causes. It could be an actual deformity

of the spine itself - vertebrae out of position - which is causing

the curvature. This would be a structural problem. It could also

be caused by muscle contractures. In your case, it sounds like it is

primarily muscle driven because you can get the muscles to relax,

even if only temporarily, and get the curvature to ease up. If it

were structural, you would not get a postural change.

The next question that comes up is that, if it is being caused by

the muscles, which muscles are involved? The primary muscles for

spinal flexion are the ESGs (Erector Spinae Group) consisting of the

Spinalis, Longissimus and Iliocostalis. The QL's (Quadratus

Lumborum) also assist in flexion when they act together bilaterally.

The third and fourth questions I would have would be about the

bulging disks. Which vertebrae are involved? I am assuming because

of the swayback that it is your lumbar vertebrae? Also, in which

direction do they bulge? Do they bulge anterior - toward the

abdomen? This is just a guess, but it would make sense. If the

spine is being pulled down and back, the vertebrae are going to

compress toward the rear, forcing a bulge toward the front.

Next up - has it actually been recommended to you that you have

surgery done? Also, other than stretching, have you tried anything

else for it?

Bounce some answers to these back at me and I will take another look

at it.

[Guest guest]

First things first. I can't say for certain that what she was doing

was muscle stripping. It might have been that or it might have been

just regular deep tissue work. Your description in suggestive but

not conclusive because there are other things she could have been

doing. It could also have been something like her elbow getting too

close to the spine and applying some kind of excess pressure that

caused the problem.

Does sound, however, like there was a classic " ooops " or " oh shit "

involved when she worked on you.

As for whether muscle stripping as such would have the same effect

on others with EDS I can't say. I can say that I consider it too

aggressive a technique for MOST people with EDS.

As for your physiotherapist etc not being willing to show or discuss

what your Xrays showed and your pcp saying " it didn¹t matter; that

whatever they saw in the t-spine would be insignificant as nothing

of any importance happens in that area " ... HORSE SHIT! Is my

opinion on this point clear enough? Do I need to elaborate?

You asked " Is that true? A slipped disc or spondilothesis doesn't

happen in this area? " A slipped, crushed, herniated or ruptured

disk can happen anyplace along the spine. Spurs can develop

anyplace, etc.

You also asked if the amount listed was typical for a person with

HEDS. The only comment I can make on that is, " what's typical. "

I am not apt to be flying through your area anytime soon but do plan

on driving through at least a couple of times during the year.

[Guest guest]

First things first. I can't say for certain that what she was doing

was muscle stripping. It might have been that or it might have been

just regular deep tissue work. Your description in suggestive but

not conclusive because there are other things she could have been

doing. It could also have been something like her elbow getting too

close to the spine and applying some kind of excess pressure that

caused the problem.

Does sound, however, like there was a classic " ooops " or " oh shit "

involved when she worked on you.

As for whether muscle stripping as such would have the same effect

on others with EDS I can't say. I can say that I consider it too

aggressive a technique for MOST people with EDS.

As for your physiotherapist etc not being willing to show or discuss

what your Xrays showed and your pcp saying " it didn¹t matter; that

whatever they saw in the t-spine would be insignificant as nothing

of any importance happens in that area " ... HORSE SHIT! Is my

opinion on this point clear enough? Do I need to elaborate?

You asked " Is that true? A slipped disc or spondilothesis doesn't

happen in this area? " A slipped, crushed, herniated or ruptured

disk can happen anyplace along the spine. Spurs can develop

anyplace, etc.

You also asked if the amount listed was typical for a person with

HEDS. The only comment I can make on that is, " what's typical. "

I am not apt to be flying through your area anytime soon but do plan

on driving through at least a couple of times during the year.

[Guest guest]

First things first. I can't say for certain that what she was doing

was muscle stripping. It might have been that or it might have been

just regular deep tissue work. Your description in suggestive but

not conclusive because there are other things she could have been

doing. It could also have been something like her elbow getting too

close to the spine and applying some kind of excess pressure that

caused the problem.

Does sound, however, like there was a classic " ooops " or " oh shit "

involved when she worked on you.

As for whether muscle stripping as such would have the same effect

on others with EDS I can't say. I can say that I consider it too

aggressive a technique for MOST people with EDS.

As for your physiotherapist etc not being willing to show or discuss

what your Xrays showed and your pcp saying " it didn¹t matter; that

whatever they saw in the t-spine would be insignificant as nothing

of any importance happens in that area " ... HORSE SHIT! Is my

opinion on this point clear enough? Do I need to elaborate?

You asked " Is that true? A slipped disc or spondilothesis doesn't

happen in this area? " A slipped, crushed, herniated or ruptured

disk can happen anyplace along the spine. Spurs can develop

anyplace, etc.

You also asked if the amount listed was typical for a person with

HEDS. The only comment I can make on that is, " what's typical. "

I am not apt to be flying through your area anytime soon but do plan

on driving through at least a couple of times during the year.