RE: Re: Blood testing, Whole blood copper vs. RBC/serum copper, Andy?

[Guest guest]

Andy

To cut a long story short, today my local paediatrician has bought into what

we're trying to do for our son, and has agreed that it would be useful to

have a baseline set of tests carried out to see what we should be focussing

on.

He's going to ask the head of our local hospital bio-chemistry unit to do a

range of tests for us as a favour, which is fantastic. Unfortunately, I

don't know which tests to sensibly ask for from a biochemist. Can you offer

any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Stuart

>From: " andrewhallcutler " <AndyCutler@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: [ ] Re: Blood testing, Whole blood copper vs.

>RBC/serum copper, Andy?

>Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:37:01 -0000

>

>

> > Hi,

> > I'm finally about to embark on an array of blood tests for my two year

>old. I

> > consulted a couple of DAN! drs, and one of them says that it's important

>to get a

> > whole blood sample of copper and zinc, that the rbc wouldn't give the

>needed info. I

> > thought that Andy's book said the opposite?

>

>My book says the opposite and it is correct. You want RBC copper and

>zinc (and other elements).

>

> > He also recommended testing the blood for ammonia,

>

>A pain to do, has to be drawn at a hospital, tube put on ice, test done

>ASAP. Only worthwhile if there is a good reason to suspect problems.

>

> > and a blood test for casein,

> > milk (in addition to the food allergy panel).

> >

> > Other tests we're going to do: CBC, Ferritin, FE, chem panel,

>

>Good.

>

> > autism (viral/McCandless) panel,

>

>Skip it, expensive, of no utility.

>

> >nutrient and Toxic elements, a vitamin panel, thyroid panel

> > (tsh, total t3, free t4.

>

>Do FREE T3 and FREE T4. Do not do " free thyroxine index " or T7. You

>can ALSO do total T3 and total T4 (generally referred to only as T3 and

>T4) if you want, but you must know the free levels and they must be

>directly measured.

>

> > Are any of these superfluous?

>

>It is rare to see a problem on the chem panel. But those are cheap and

>doctors LOOOOOVE them.

>

> >Are there other tests we should be doing?

>

>plasma cysteine and plasma sulfate, both done by great smokies labs.

>

> > Thanks for any info you can give me.

> > My best,

> > Jill

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Andy,

Thanks very much for such a comprehensive response.

Much Appreciated.

Stuart

>From: " andrewhallcutler " <AndyCutler@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: [ ] Re: Blood testing, Whole blood copper vs.

>RBC/serum copper, Andy?

>Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:49:29 -0000

>

> > Andy

> >

> > To cut a long story short, today my local paediatrician has bought into

>what

> > we're trying to do for our son, and has agreed that it would be useful

>to

> > have a baseline set of tests carried out to see what we should be

>focussing

> > on.

> >

> > He's going to ask the head of our local hospital bio-chemistry unit to

>do a

> > range of tests for us as a favour, which is fantastic. Unfortunately, I

> > don't know which tests to sensibly ask for from a biochemist. Can you

>offer

> > any thoughts on this?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Stuart

>

>The issue of copper in blood is pretty irrelevant.

>

>Always get RBC elements when you want some blood element measured if

>that is possible.

>

>Reasonable and useful " mainstream lab " testing

>

>CBC with differential

>Hemoglobin A1c

>ferritin

>T3, T4, free T3, free T4, TSH

>serum uric acid

>serum pyruvate and lactate

>whole blood porphyrins

>

>A chem panel is actually of very little relevance, but most doctors

>have a compulsive need to order one. If so have them order a long one

>(e. g. what used to be called a chem 28).

>

>Sometimes total IgA, IgE, IgM and IgG are informative. IgE is the most

>likely to be useful to know.

>

>Cholesterol, HDL and LDL is occasionally useful to know but since

>moralistic mainstream medical guidelines are totally unrelated to

>reality I wouldn't get this unless your pede truly is VERY open minded.

>

>Things that have to be done by " alternative " labs to get real results:

>

>Hair test, DDI hair element profile preferred, if not DDI then must be

>great smokies (nobody but those 2 has pediatric reference ranges).

>

>Red blood cell elements, DDI (most preferred) or Great Smokies. In

>theory some of these can be done by regular labs, in practice I see

>obviously incorrect results on these analyses more often than ones that

>might be accurate.

>

>Plasma cysteine and sulfate, great smokies is the only place that does

>these. Cysteine is NOT the same as cystine and cystine is not

>relevant. All mainstream labs measure cystine.

>

>To do the RBC elements and the cysteine+ sulfate you need to get kits

>from the lab beforehand. The kit for cysteine and sulfate is called

> " comprehensive detoxification profile " and the doc marks the cysteine

>and sulfate checkoffs only, and you only need to send in the plasma

>vial.

>

>Pay great smokies and DDI up front and claim later, payment in advance

>is WAY cheaper and insurance may not cover it.

>

>If you get something from insurance about maybe they'll pay if you sign

>authorizing peer review, do not sign it, it is a game they play to

>pretend you are making a complaint about the doctor and have his board

>harass him.

>

>If the doc thinks this is an exessive amount of testing, start with the

>hair test. If you can get a good 24 hour urine collection then also do

>a fractionated urine porphyrins (mainstream lab) before doing any

>bloood tests.

>

>If you want the blood tests prioritized it is more or less

>

>cysteine + sulfate

>hemoglobin A1c and CBC

>thyroid tests

>all the rest.

>

>The most important and useful test is the hair test.

>

>Andy . . . .. .

>

>

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