Guest guest Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Andy commented one time that mercury toxic children produce some pretty " spikey " EEGs. So I wonder if it's the other way around? [ ] spikes in EEG cause autism Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2004;10(2):132-4. Related Articles, Links Epileptic encephalopathies and their relationship to developmental disorders: Do spikes cause autism? Tharp BR. Departments of Neurology and Pediatrics, The M.I.N.D. Institute, University of California, , Sacramento, California. Epileptic encephalopathies are progressive clinical and electroencephalographic syndromes where deterioration is thought to be caused by frequent seizures and abundant EEG epileptiform activity. Seizures occur in approximately 10-15% of children with pervasive developmental disorders (PDD) and 8-10% have epileptiform EEG abnormalities without seizures. Thirty percent of children with PDD have regression of social behavior and language at 2-3 years of age. Some authors speculate that the regression is caused by epileptiform activity even in the absence of overt clinical seizures ( " autism with epileptic regression " ) and suggest that elimination of the epileptiform activity, either medically or surgically, should lead to improvement in behavior. This review examines the data showing that interictal epileptiform discharges are associated with transient clinical dysfunction and discusses the implications of these observations for autistic behavioral abnormalities. The results of resective surgery, vagal nerve stimulation, and multiple subpial transaction on children with autism and epileptiform EEG abnormalities are also discussed. I conclude that there is no evidence that interictal discharges per se cause (or contribute to) the complex behavioral phenotype of autism. There is no justification to support the use of anticonvulsant medication or surgery in children with PDD without seizures; that is, there is no evidence that treatment to eliminate EEG spikes will have a therapeutic effect on the behavioral abnormalities of PDD and autism. MRDD Research Reviews 2004;10:132-134. Copyright 2004 Wiley-Liss, Inc. PMID: 15362170 [PubMed - in process] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 That's interesting to me, because I have a friend who KNOWS that her son's disability was from his DTP shot when he was two years old(I don't know if this was his only immunization that he had that day). He is now 27 years old. He exhibited autistic behaviors before his shots, he had some speech, could walk, etc. After the vaccines he had a fever and had his first seizure. From there it got worse and worse. This is a 27 year old man who can no longer feed himself, talk, etc. He has to wear a helmet, just in case he has a seizure. Not a day goes by without one. Jodie P.S. I joined the group for awhile in May or June and then unsubscribed when things got way to busy. We've now seen a naturopath, and she did a kryptopyrolle test. The reading was high, so we're now starting down the road of chelation. I rejoined the list a couple of days ago. Does anyone know a doctor in the Portland(OR) area who will take a referral from a pediatrician for insurance purposes? My doctor does not know how to do this. How different is it from chelating with lead?Don't they have to do that? Thanks! [ ] spikes in EEG cause autism Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2004;10(2):132-4. Related Articles, Links Epileptic encephalopathies and their relationship to developmental disorders: Do spikes cause autism? Tharp BR. Departments of Neurology and Pediatrics, The M.I.N.D. Institute, University of California, , Sacramento, California. Epileptic encephalopathies are progressive clinical and electroencephalographic syndromes where deterioration is thought to be caused by frequent seizures and abundant EEG epileptiform activity. Seizures occur in approximately 10-15% of children with pervasive developmental disorders (PDD) and 8-10% have epileptiform EEG abnormalities without seizures. Thirty percent of children with PDD have regression of social behavior and language at 2-3 years of age. Some authors speculate that the regression is caused by epileptiform activity even in the absence of overt clinical seizures ( " autism with epileptic regression " ) and suggest that elimination of the epileptiform activity, either medically or surgically, should lead to improvement in behavior. This review examines the data showing that interictal epileptiform discharges are associated with transient clinical dysfunction and discusses the implications of these observations for autistic behavioral abnormalities. The results of resective surgery, vagal nerve stimulation, and multiple subpial transaction on children with autism and epileptiform EEG abnormalities are also discussed. I conclude that there is no evidence that interictal discharges per se cause (or contribute to) the complex behavioral phenotype of autism. There is no justification to support the use of anticonvulsant medication or surgery in children with PDD without seizures; that is, there is no evidence that treatment to eliminate EEG spikes will have a therapeutic effect on the behavioral abnormalities of PDD and autism. MRDD Research Reviews 2004;10:132-134. Copyright 2004 Wiley-Liss, Inc. PMID: 15362170 [PubMed - in process] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Makes me angry they would consider using anticonvulsant in a child without having seizures. **There is no justification to support the use of anticonvulsant medication or surgery in children with PDD without seizures;** > > > Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2004;10(2):132-4. Related Articles, Links > > > Epileptic encephalopathies and their relationship to developmental disorders: Do spikes cause autism? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 > Makes me angry they would consider using anticonvulsant in a child > without having seizures. > > > **There is no justification to > support the use of anticonvulsant medication or surgery in children > with PDD > without seizures;** I gather you have no knowledge or experience in this area. Some children are marvelously improved on these. Others only get the side effects. Generally if the EEG is spikey then the antiseizure medications are quite helpful. If not the meds do nothing. Also unlike frank epilepsy, with a " spikey " EEG often lower doses of the stuff are adequate and the side effects are much less. I do agree that just prescribing them based on the kids being autistic or PDD is incompetent, but there are obvious signs of the problem - an EEG isn't necessary to have a very good idea if these are going to work. > > > > Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2004;10(2):132-4. Related > Articles, Links > > > > > > Epileptic encephalopathies and their relationship to developmental > disorders: Do spikes cause autism? No, but mercury causes spikes, and mercury causes autism. People with religious dogma that mercury can't cause any problems might get confused and think spikes cause autism. Andy . . .. . . . . . .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 My son has Lennox Gastaut since he was 21 months old, He goes into status seizures and was in ICU, he was in a 24 hour seizure for three straight days, He does have a " spikey " abnormal EEG. If my son " just " had a spikey EEG, Would that indicate he was having seizures? If not I would not have him on medication if he was " just " having a " spikey " EEG. Some of these medications are very dangerous....The sad thing is the one drug that has helped my son that is NOT available in the US, Has the least side effects! Donna > > Makes me angry they would consider using anticonvulsant in a child > > without having seizures. > > > > > > **There is no justification to > > support the use of anticonvulsant medication or surgery in children > > with PDD > > without seizures;** > > I gather you have no knowledge or experience in this area. Some > children are marvelously improved on these. Others only get the side > effects. Generally if the EEG is spikey then the antiseizure > medications are quite helpful. If not the meds do nothing. Also > unlike frank epilepsy, with a " spikey " EEG often lower doses of the > stuff are adequate and the side effects are much less. > > I do agree that just prescribing them based on the kids being autistic > or PDD is incompetent, but there are obvious signs of the problem - an > EEG isn't necessary to have a very good idea if these are going to > work. > > > > > > > Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2004;10(2):132-4. Related > > Articles, Links > > > > > > > > > Epileptic encephalopathies and their relationship to developmental > > disorders: Do spikes cause autism? > > No, but mercury causes spikes, and mercury causes autism. > > People with religious dogma that mercury can't cause any problems might > get confused and think spikes cause autism. > > Andy . . .. . . . . . .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2004 Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 > My son has Lennox Gastaut since he was 21 months old, He goes into > status seizures and was in ICU, he was in a 24 hour seizure for > three straight days, He does have a " spikey " abnormal EEG. If my > son " just " had a spikey EEG, Would that indicate he was having > seizures? No. >If not I would not have him on medication if he > was " just " having a " spikey " EEG. Which would be too bad for him since those are exactly the kids who get a lot of benefit from these medications, often at low enough levels the side effects are minimal. > Some of these medications are very dangerous....The sad thing is the > one drug that has helped my son that is NOT available in the US, Has > the least side effects! That's the FDA for you. Andy . . . . .. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 [ ] Re: spikes in EEG cause autism > > > > > Makes me angry they would consider using anticonvulsant in a child > > > without having seizures. > > > > > > > > > **There is no justification to > > > support the use of anticonvulsant medication or surgery in children > > > with PDD > > > without seizures;** > > > > I gather you have no knowledge or experience in this area. Some > > children are marvelously improved on these. Others only get the side > > effects. Generally if the EEG is spikey then the antiseizure > > medications are quite helpful. If not the meds do nothing. Also > > unlike frank epilepsy, with a " spikey " EEG often lower doses of the > > stuff are adequate and the side effects are much less. > > > > I do agree that just prescribing them based on the kids being autistic > > or PDD is incompetent, but there are obvious signs of the problem - an > > EEG isn't necessary to have a very good idea if these are going to > > work. > > > > > > > > > > Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2004;10(2):132-4. Related > > > Articles, Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Epileptic encephalopathies and their relationship to developmental > > > disorders: Do spikes cause autism? > > > > No, but mercury causes spikes, and mercury causes autism. > > > > People with religious dogma that mercury can't cause any problems might > > get confused and think spikes cause autism. > > > > Andy . . .. . . . . . .. > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================= > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Donna what med helped your son. My son had an severe exfoliative dermatitis on Lamictal and is loosing his hair and has developed a tremor on depakote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 > > Hi Andy, > > what are the obvious signs you talked about that might point one in the > > direction of an anti-convulsant other than the EEG? Impulsivity, poor emotional regulation (excessive highs and lows), going out of control and being tired afterwards, sudden bouts of confusion or anger, a high score on the temporal lobe part of the Dan Amen ADD checklist or the Ring of Fire part of that checklist. Andy . . . .. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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