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Re: spikes in EEG cause autism

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Andy commented one time that mercury toxic children produce some pretty " spikey "

EEGs. So I wonder if it's the other way around?

[ ] spikes in EEG cause autism

Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2004;10(2):132-4. Related Articles,

Links

Epileptic encephalopathies and their relationship to developmental disorders:

Do spikes cause autism?

Tharp BR.

Departments of Neurology and Pediatrics, The M.I.N.D. Institute, University of

California, , Sacramento, California.

Epileptic encephalopathies are progressive clinical and

electroencephalographic syndromes where deterioration is thought to be caused by

frequent seizures and abundant EEG epileptiform activity. Seizures occur in

approximately 10-15% of children with pervasive developmental disorders (PDD)

and 8-10% have epileptiform EEG abnormalities without seizures. Thirty percent

of children with PDD have regression of social behavior and language at 2-3

years of age. Some authors speculate that the regression is caused by

epileptiform activity even in the absence of overt clinical seizures ( " autism

with epileptic regression " ) and suggest that elimination of the epileptiform

activity, either medically or surgically, should lead to improvement in

behavior. This review examines the data showing that interictal epileptiform

discharges are associated with transient clinical dysfunction and discusses the

implications of these observations for autistic behavioral abnormalities. The

results of resective surgery, vagal nerve stimulation, and multiple subpial

transaction on children with autism and epileptiform EEG abnormalities are also

discussed. I conclude that there is no evidence that interictal discharges per

se cause (or contribute to) the complex behavioral phenotype of autism. There is

no justification to support the use of anticonvulsant medication or surgery in

children with PDD without seizures; that is, there is no evidence that treatment

to eliminate EEG spikes will have a therapeutic effect on the behavioral

abnormalities of PDD and autism. MRDD Research Reviews 2004;10:132-134.

Copyright 2004 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

PMID: 15362170 [PubMed - in process]

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That's interesting to me, because I have a friend who KNOWS that her son's

disability was from his DTP shot when he was two years old(I don't know if this

was his only immunization that he had that day). He is now 27 years old. He

exhibited autistic behaviors before his shots, he had some speech, could walk,

etc. After the vaccines he had a fever and had his first seizure. From there it

got worse and worse. This is a 27 year old man who can no longer feed himself,

talk, etc. He has to wear a helmet, just in case he has a seizure. Not a day

goes by without one.

Jodie

P.S. I joined the group for awhile in May or June and then unsubscribed when

things got way to busy. We've now seen a naturopath, and she did a kryptopyrolle

test. The reading was high, so we're now starting down the road of chelation. I

rejoined the list a couple of days ago. Does anyone know a doctor in the

Portland(OR) area who will take a referral from a pediatrician for insurance

purposes? My doctor does not know how to do this. How different is it from

chelating with lead?Don't they have to do that? Thanks!

[ ] spikes in EEG cause autism

Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2004;10(2):132-4. Related Articles,

Links

Epileptic encephalopathies and their relationship to developmental

disorders: Do spikes cause autism?

Tharp BR.

Departments of Neurology and Pediatrics, The M.I.N.D. Institute, University

of California, , Sacramento, California.

Epileptic encephalopathies are progressive clinical and

electroencephalographic syndromes where deterioration is thought to be caused by

frequent seizures and abundant EEG epileptiform activity. Seizures occur in

approximately 10-15% of children with pervasive developmental disorders (PDD)

and 8-10% have epileptiform EEG abnormalities without seizures. Thirty percent

of children with PDD have regression of social behavior and language at 2-3

years of age. Some authors speculate that the regression is caused by

epileptiform activity even in the absence of overt clinical seizures ( " autism

with epileptic regression " ) and suggest that elimination of the epileptiform

activity, either medically or surgically, should lead to improvement in

behavior. This review examines the data showing that interictal epileptiform

discharges are associated with transient clinical dysfunction and discusses the

implications of these observations for autistic behavioral abnormalities. The

results of resective surgery, vagal nerve stimulation, and multiple subpial

transaction on children with autism and epileptiform EEG abnormalities are also

discussed. I conclude that there is no evidence that interictal discharges per

se cause (or contribute to) the complex behavioral phenotype of autism. There is

no justification to support the use of anticonvulsant medication or surgery in

children with PDD without seizures; that is, there is no evidence that treatment

to eliminate EEG spikes will have a therapeutic effect on the behavioral

abnormalities of PDD and autism. MRDD Research Reviews 2004;10:132-134.

Copyright 2004 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

PMID: 15362170 [PubMed - in process]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Makes me angry they would consider using anticonvulsant in a child

without having seizures.

**There is no justification to

support the use of anticonvulsant medication or surgery in children

with PDD

without seizures;**

>

>

> Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2004;10(2):132-4. Related

Articles, Links

>

>

> Epileptic encephalopathies and their relationship to developmental

disorders: Do spikes cause autism?

>

>

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Share on other sites

> Makes me angry they would consider using anticonvulsant in a child

> without having seizures.

>

>

> **There is no justification to

> support the use of anticonvulsant medication or surgery in children

> with PDD

> without seizures;**

I gather you have no knowledge or experience in this area. Some

children are marvelously improved on these. Others only get the side

effects. Generally if the EEG is spikey then the antiseizure

medications are quite helpful. If not the meds do nothing. Also

unlike frank epilepsy, with a " spikey " EEG often lower doses of the

stuff are adequate and the side effects are much less.

I do agree that just prescribing them based on the kids being autistic

or PDD is incompetent, but there are obvious signs of the problem - an

EEG isn't necessary to have a very good idea if these are going to

work.

> >

> > Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2004;10(2):132-4. Related

> Articles, Links

> >

> >

> > Epileptic encephalopathies and their relationship to developmental

> disorders: Do spikes cause autism?

No, but mercury causes spikes, and mercury causes autism.

People with religious dogma that mercury can't cause any problems might

get confused and think spikes cause autism.

Andy . . .. . . . . . ..

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My son has Lennox Gastaut since he was 21 months old, He goes into

status seizures and was in ICU, he was in a 24 hour seizure for

three straight days, He does have a " spikey " abnormal EEG. If my

son " just " had a spikey EEG, Would that indicate he was having

seizures? If not I would not have him on medication if he

was " just " having a " spikey " EEG.

Some of these medications are very dangerous....The sad thing is the

one drug that has helped my son that is NOT available in the US, Has

the least side effects!

Donna

> > Makes me angry they would consider using anticonvulsant in a

child

> > without having seizures.

> >

> >

> > **There is no justification to

> > support the use of anticonvulsant medication or surgery in

children

> > with PDD

> > without seizures;**

>

> I gather you have no knowledge or experience in this area. Some

> children are marvelously improved on these. Others only get the

side

> effects. Generally if the EEG is spikey then the antiseizure

> medications are quite helpful. If not the meds do nothing. Also

> unlike frank epilepsy, with a " spikey " EEG often lower doses of

the

> stuff are adequate and the side effects are much less.

>

> I do agree that just prescribing them based on the kids being

autistic

> or PDD is incompetent, but there are obvious signs of the problem -

an

> EEG isn't necessary to have a very good idea if these are going to

> work.

>

> > >

> > > Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2004;10(2):132-4.

Related

> > Articles, Links

> > >

> > >

> > > Epileptic encephalopathies and their relationship to

developmental

> > disorders: Do spikes cause autism?

>

> No, but mercury causes spikes, and mercury causes autism.

>

> People with religious dogma that mercury can't cause any problems

might

> get confused and think spikes cause autism.

>

> Andy . . .. . . . . . ..

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> My son has Lennox Gastaut since he was 21 months old, He goes into

> status seizures and was in ICU, he was in a 24 hour seizure for

> three straight days, He does have a " spikey " abnormal EEG. If my

> son " just " had a spikey EEG, Would that indicate he was having

> seizures?

No.

>If not I would not have him on medication if he

> was " just " having a " spikey " EEG.

Which would be too bad for him since those are exactly the kids who get

a lot of benefit from these medications, often at low enough levels the

side effects are minimal.

> Some of these medications are very dangerous....The sad thing is the

> one drug that has helped my son that is NOT available in the US, Has

> the least side effects!

That's the FDA for you.

Andy . . . . .. . .

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[ ] Re: spikes in EEG cause autism

>

>

> > > Makes me angry they would consider using anticonvulsant in a child

> > > without having seizures.

> > >

> > >

> > > **There is no justification to

> > > support the use of anticonvulsant medication or surgery in children

> > > with PDD

> > > without seizures;**

> >

> > I gather you have no knowledge or experience in this area. Some

> > children are marvelously improved on these. Others only get the side

> > effects. Generally if the EEG is spikey then the antiseizure

> > medications are quite helpful. If not the meds do nothing. Also

> > unlike frank epilepsy, with a " spikey " EEG often lower doses of the

> > stuff are adequate and the side effects are much less.

> >

> > I do agree that just prescribing them based on the kids being autistic

> > or PDD is incompetent, but there are obvious signs of the problem - an

> > EEG isn't necessary to have a very good idea if these are going to

> > work.

> >

> > > >

> > > > Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2004;10(2):132-4. Related

> > > Articles, Links

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Epileptic encephalopathies and their relationship to developmental

> > > disorders: Do spikes cause autism?

> >

> > No, but mercury causes spikes, and mercury causes autism.

> >

> > People with religious dogma that mercury can't cause any problems might

> > get confused and think spikes cause autism.

> >

> > Andy . . .. . . . . . ..

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > =======================================================

> >

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> > Hi Andy,

> > what are the obvious signs you talked about that might point one in the

> > direction of an anti-convulsant other than the EEG?

Impulsivity, poor emotional regulation (excessive highs and lows),

going out of control and being tired afterwards, sudden bouts of

confusion or anger, a high score on the temporal lobe part of the Dan

Amen ADD checklist or the Ring of Fire part of that checklist.

Andy . . . .. .

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