Re: An Unbelieveable Doc Visit - Help!!

October 24, 2002

-

This info was really fascinating! I found it especially curious about how

the treatment for PCOS is Glucophage. My spouse is currently taking that for

his Type II diabetes, I think it's pretty amazing that it's also used for

infertility due to PCOS - never would have connected those 2 conditions to

that medication! What does the Glucophage due for the PCOS? I know it works

wonders for insulin sensitivity, but I'm wondering how it reduces cysts in

PCOS?

Sometimes medicine is pretty cool. I'll be sure to tell my hubby now that he

doesn't have to worry about getting any ovarian cysts!

(glad the babies are doing great - more than halfway there now!)

Diagnosed 7/01 very early with Graves', alternative treatment. So far

euthyroid since 10/01. Also have

high TPO ABs, new theory is Hashitoxicosis. T4's currently normal, but on a

TSH rollercoaster.

Early eye symptoms.

Re: An Unbelieveable Doc Visit - Help!!

> Hi Ann-

>

> I know of 2 studies (I know there are more) that connect thyroid disease

> with polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS). You're doctor is right, the

cysts

> in the ovaries are actually unreleased follicles and most OB/GYNs know

that

> but they're called cysts anyways.

>

> All my antibody tests are also negative but my perinatalogist agrees that

I

> have an autoimmune reaction to the chorionic villi that supplies blood to

> the placenta and I have autoimmune arthritis (plus I have known autoimmune

> disease). Often autoimmune testing is negative or they don't have tests

> available for a condition. So the perinatalogist and the rheumatologist

are

> treating me for autoimmune disease during pregnancy.

>

> They also don't know for sure but they believe PCOS is autoimmune in

nature

> as well as often associated with thyroid disease.

>

> The current treatment for infertility caused by PCOS is taking Glucophage

> for it. This reduces or eliminates the cysts and most patients start to

> ovulate (they don't know why it works). Many doctors stop the Glucophage

as

> soon as the patient becomes pregnant but many of them miscarry soon after

(I

> did). Some reproductive endocrinologists keep their patients on

Glucophage

> through the 1st 3 months of pregancy.

>

> This time I'm 25 1/2 weeks pregnant with twins (after IVF) after being

> treated with both Glucophage (before pregnancy and for the 1st 16 weeks)

and

> autoimmune disease. So far, everything looks good except I've developed

> high BP and gestational diabetes (I'm going to see if the endo will let me

> restart Glucophage which increases the sensitivity of cells to insulin).

>

> Hope this helps!

>

> Take care,

>

> dx & RAI 1987 (at age 24)

>

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > I haven't written lately because I've been so swamped at work but I have

> been

> > reading the postings. Well, I have seen a reproductive endocrinologist

> > because my gyn. was concerned over the numerous ovarian cysts I've been

> > having. When I saw him three weeks ago, the new doc did extensive blood

> work

> > including full thyroid panels with antibodies testing. I told him at

that

> > visit that I was diagnosed with Graves and provided him with as many lab

> > reports as I could from my succession of docs. Anyway, I returned to him

> last

> > night and...he told me that even though these docs all say that my

thyroid

> is

> > normal because my levels show that I'm normal, it's not functioning

right.

> My

> > tsh was 4.41 - that alone he told me was too high and needs to come

down.

> He

> > said that usually people feel better between 1 and 2. My current endo

said

> he

> > is not concerned until my levels go beyond 5! Then he showed me that I

> have

> > no antibodies. Not one! He had a list of antibody tests and I saw all

> zeros

> > next to them. I asked him if that should be the case with Graves. He sai

d

> he

> > didn't know. I have been on PTU since April of last year. Then I told

him

> > that I have been having reoccurring bouts of thyroiditis - at least once

a

> > month that last a week. I also told him that I feel like I'm cycling off

> and

> > on during the month between hyper and hypo symptoms that vary in

> intensity.

> > In fact, I called my endo last week during one of these bouts and he

told

> me

> > that this cycling was actually anxiety. Well, this new guy told me that

it

> > was definitely not anxiety and I was blown off by him. He suggested I

see

> a

> > new doctor (he recommended one to me). I informed him that I also have

TED

> so

> > something must be going on with antibodies somewhere. The new doc also

> told

> > me that there is such a thing as cycling within normal levels and it's

> really

> > important to keep track of all this. Finally, he really blew me away

with

> the

> > ovarian connection. He did tests to determine whether the cysts were

> > actually cysts. It turns out that they're not cysts. They're follicles.

> He

> > explained that because my thyroid is cycling, it's alerting my brain

that

> I'm

> > in a period of stress and then no stress. This is signaling my ovaries

to

> > ovulate and then not ovulate. Hence, my ovaries are getting mixed

signals

> > regarding hormone production. As a result, I'm not getting enough of

each

> to

> > release an egg each month. So..the egg continues to grow and grow until

it

> > gets big enough to release from the ovary. This causes lots of pain and

an

> > enlarged follicle which appears like a cyst on the ultrasounds! As I

left

> the

> > office, he told me that my problem was not from the waist down or in my

> head.

> > The problem is really in the middle of my neck! My head is spinning and

> I'm a

> > little distrustful of what docs say to me anymore even if it is good

news

> and

> > verifies what I have been feeling. Has anyone ever heard about this

> cycling

> > thing? What about the connection he's making to the ovaries? How come I

> don't

> > have antibodies present in my blood? What's happening to me that I've

been

> > having bouts of thyroiditis? Sorry for all these questions but I need

> help!

> > I'm going to make an appointment with this new doc but I'm so scared.

> Sorry

> > this is so long!

> >

> > Ann

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list do not have the endorsement

of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------

>

October 24, 2002

Ann,

Excellent doc visit. Once you reduce your dose and become less hypo

everything will look much better. Hypo can not only cause depression , aches

and pains, and brain fog, but it also causes anxiety, panic attacks, and

high blood pressure in some of us. Many doctors will tell you this is only

hyper..but we beg to differ.

You need to get paper copies of those lab reports, because you do not know

if he ran the proper antibody tests.

-Pam L -

October 24, 2002

Hi Ann-

One other thing. The antithyroid bodies are not believed to cause the

infertility directly but are an indicator that there are other

autoantibodies present that can cause it. However, PTU suppresses the

entire immune system so as it lowers antithyroid antibodies, it lowers other

autoantibodies too.

Take care,

dx & RAI 1987 (at age 24)

> Hi Ann, It sounds to me like this doctor knows his stuff - I hope the doc

he

> is sending you to is as good as he is.

>

> You will feel so much better when you get your TSH down to 1 or 2, I just

> know it... and you may not have any antibodies because you've been on PTU

> for so long, PTU lowers your antibodies... can't really answer any of your

> other questions, but hang in there, it sounds like you are getting

competent

> care finally, I would be so happy if I were you!

>

> hugs,

> Pam B.

October 24, 2002

Hi Ann-

One other thing. The antithyroid bodies are not believed to cause the

infertility directly but are an indicator that there are other

autoantibodies present that can cause it. However, PTU suppresses the

entire immune system so as it lowers antithyroid antibodies, it lowers other

autoantibodies too.

Take care,

dx & RAI 1987 (at age 24)

> Hi Ann, It sounds to me like this doctor knows his stuff - I hope the doc

he

> is sending you to is as good as he is.

>

> You will feel so much better when you get your TSH down to 1 or 2, I just

> know it... and you may not have any antibodies because you've been on PTU

> for so long, PTU lowers your antibodies... can't really answer any of your

> other questions, but hang in there, it sounds like you are getting

competent

> care finally, I would be so happy if I were you!

>

> hugs,

> Pam B.

October 24, 2002

Hi -

They have no idea why it works. They have some theories but they don't

really know. One hypothesis is that high testosterone levels cause the

cysts. Increasing sensitivity to insulin reduces testosterone levels (for

some unknown reason) and the cysts disappear. I wasn't resistant to insulin

when I was on Glucophage but my testosterone levels were high in relation to

E2 (but not out of the normal range). When I was on Glucophage for a couple

of months, my testosterone levels dropped and the cysts disappeared.

In general, PCOS progresses to insulin resistance which eventually

progresses to Type II diabetes. Some PCOSers never progress to insulin

resistance just as some people with insulin resistance never progress to

diabetes. But often they do. Who knows why?

It is pretty fascinating stuff.

Take care,

dx & RAI 1987 (at age 24)

> -

>

> This info was really fascinating! I found it especially curious about how

> the treatment for PCOS is Glucophage. My spouse is currently taking that

for

> his Type II diabetes, I think it's pretty amazing that it's also used for

> infertility due to PCOS - never would have connected those 2 conditions to

> that medication! What does the Glucophage due for the PCOS? I know it

works

> wonders for insulin sensitivity, but I'm wondering how it reduces cysts in

> PCOS?

>

> Sometimes medicine is pretty cool. I'll be sure to tell my hubby now that

he

> doesn't have to worry about getting any ovarian cysts!

>

> (glad the babies are doing great - more than halfway there now!)

>

> Diagnosed 7/01 very early with Graves', alternative treatment. So far

> euthyroid since 10/01. Also have

> high TPO ABs, new theory is Hashitoxicosis. T4's currently normal, but on

a

> TSH rollercoaster.

> Early eye symptoms.

October 24, 2002