Re: Some ongoing vitamin A research I'm stockpiling

May 31, 2004

> Be careful if you in the unlikely event run across polar bear on a menu -

500 gram (about ½ a pound) of polar bear liver will deliver about 9,000,000

IU to your diet - a very lethal dose.

500 gram is more than one pound (1 pound = about 450 gram). Could you eat a

whole pound of any liver, leave alone polar bear's, and eat it raw (since

cooking seems to destroy vit. A)???

Elena

May 31, 2004

> Just some ongoing vitamin A research for my files, thought others

might be interested.....LWinn

Please just keep in mind that some of the major research done on the

toxicity of vitamin A did not distinguish between natural forms that

include all the co-factors of the complex molecules, and manufactured

retinol - just one derivative of the vit. A complex. And this single

manufactured component (retinol) is known to cause birth defects. Not

that natural vit. A cannot be toxic in extremely high doses, but it

can't necessarily be interchanged with synthetic forms when

discussing toxic doses.

Also keep in mind that beta carotene and other carotenes are NOT

vitamin A - they are precursors that *some* people can convert to

true vitamin A under optimal conditions, but not on a low-fat diet as

bile salts are necessary for the conversion. Children aren't good

converters, and probably most of us are operating under less than

optimal conditions (certainly autistic kids aren't operating under

optimal conditions, especially since a messed up gut ecology is

typical of ASD kids, and proper conversion takes place in the small

intestine). Additionally, it takes approx. 6 to 12 units of beta-

carotene to make ONE unit of vitamin A. Thus, carotenes are not a

reliable source of vitamin A. So those FDA-approved labels on veggie

products that list vit. A amount are meaningless...

FWIW,

Suze

June 2, 2004

> Please just keep in mind that some of the major research done on

the

> toxicity of vitamin A did not distinguish between natural forms

that

> include all the co-factors of the complex molecules, and

manufactured

> retinol - just one derivative of the vit. A complex. And this

single

> manufactured component (retinol) is known to cause birth defects.

Not

> that natural vit. A cannot be toxic in extremely high doses, but

it

> can't necessarily be interchanged with synthetic forms when

> discussing toxic doses.

>

> Also keep in mind that beta carotene and other carotenes are NOT

> vitamin A - they are precursors that *some* people can convert to

> true vitamin A under optimal conditions

Vitamin A is more toxic since it doesn't need to be converted. The

high doses were used in some of the severely Vit A depleted third

world countries because it would give them a three to six month

supply stored in their livers. These were one time doses without

daily supplementation and very little or no sources from diet.

Once the liver is saturated any further intake can cause vitamin A

poisoning.

I wonder if most understand that the symptoms of vitamin A

poisoning are the same as those due to severe depletion.

Vitamin A overdose can cause a serious increase of intracranial

pressure that can be life threatening. That increased pressure

seems to include intraocular pressure.

That increased pressure may account for the known retinal damage

from overdose. It really frightens me when I read about the

continual use after a child has shown symptoms of overdose. I would

think that all forms should be severely avoided to increase the odds

of no long term eye or neurological damage.

I would definitely have a childs eyes examined for increased ocular

pressure or other indications that their vision could be at risk.

Cheryl

" In hypervitaminosis A, lipid droplets appeared in the retinal

pigment epithelium and alcohol dehydrogenase disappeared in the

retinal pigment epithelium and photoreceptor outer segments.

Excessive A was toxic to the retina, which showed disappearance of

photoreceptor cells. "

Curr Neurol Neurosci Rep. 2004 Mar;4(2):111-6. Related Articles,

Links

Pseudotumor cerebri.

Brazis PW.

Department of Neurology, Mayo Clinic-ville, 4500 San Pablo

Road, ville, FL 32224, USA. Brazis.paul@...

Pseudotumor cerebri (PTC) is a syndrome of increased intracranial

pressure without hydrocephalus or mass lesion and with normal

cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) composition. Although often considered to

be " idiopathic, " detailed investigation has revealed a high

incidence of venous outflow abnormalities in PTC syndrome patients.

The thought that elevated intracranial venous sinus pressure is

a " universal mechanism " for PTC syndrome of varying etiologies has

been called into question by a study indicating that the increased

venous pressure in idiopathic PTC patients is caused by the elevated

intracranial pressure and not the reverse, suggesting that " the

chicken is the CSF pressure elevation and the egg is the venous

sinus pressure elevation. "

**Vitamin A toxicity may play a role in the pathogenesis of

idiopathic PTC. The treatment of PTC has two major goals: the

alleviation of symptoms and preservation of visual function.***

When medical therapy fails or when visual dysfunction deteriorates,

surgical therapies for PTC should be considered.

The two main procedures performed include lumboperitoneal shunt and

optic nerve sheath fenestration. Because of the association of PTC

with venous sinus hypertension, some authors are considering venous

sinus stenting for refractory cases of PTC. It is still unclear if

primary treatment of the observed venous stenosis benefits patients

with idiopathic PTC. This should be no surprise, as it is not

certain whether the stenoses are the cause or the result of

idiopathic PTC.

Publication Types:

Review

Review, Tutorial

PMID: 14984682 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

Ann Emerg Med. 2004 May;43(5):585-91.

The relationship of intraocular pressure to intracranial pressure.

Lashutka MK, Chandra A, Murray HN, GS, Hiestand BC.

Study objective The early detection of intracranial hypertension can

lead to timely medical and neurosurgical intervention, preventing

brain herniation and death. In this investigation, we hypothesize

that an increase in intracranial pressure can be detected by an

increase in intraocular pressure using noninvasive existing

technology, the handheld tonometer.

METHODS: This was a prospective observational pilot study conducted

at a community hospital. Admitted patients with an invasive

intracranial pressure monitor were solicited for participation.

Patients were excluded if they had known glaucoma or had sufficient

ocular or facial trauma that precluded intraocular pressure

determination. Simultaneous measurements of intracranial and

intraocular pressure were recorded.

RESULTS: Twenty-seven patients

were enrolled, and 76 individual measurements were performed. All

patients with an abnormal intracranial pressure had an abnormal

intraocular pressure; similarly, all patients with a normal

intracranial pressure had a normal intraocular pressure (sensitivity

1.00, 95% confidence interval 0.86 to 1.0; specificity 1.0, 95%

confidence interval 0.93 to 1.0)

CONCLUSION: Abnormal intraocular pressure as measured with the

handheld tonometer is an excellent indicator of abnormal

intracranial pressure in patients with known intracranial pathology.

PMID: 15111918 [PubMed - in process]

June 2, 2004

> > Please just keep in mind that some of the major research done on

> the

> > toxicity of vitamin A did not distinguish between natural forms

> that

> > include all the co-factors of the complex molecules, and

> manufactured

> > retinol - just one derivative of the vit. A complex. And this

> single

> > manufactured component (retinol) is known to cause birth defects.

> Not

> > that natural vit. A cannot be toxic in extremely high doses, but

> it

> > can't necessarily be interchanged with synthetic forms when

> > discussing toxic doses.

> >

> > Also keep in mind that beta carotene and other carotenes are NOT

> > vitamin A - they are precursors that *some* people can convert to

> > true vitamin A under optimal conditions

>

> Vitamin A is more toxic since it doesn't need to be converted.

It is toxic only in excess, not per se. Aside from that, my point was

that one cannot depend on carotenes as a vitamin A source, due to all

the factors that interfere with conversion (and the fact that it

requires large amounts of carotenes to make moderate amounts of vit.

A). Babies and children for example are poor converters. Many common

health conditions also interfere with conversion, and it seems quite

likely that Autistic children are probably poor converters, not only

because they are children, but due to bacterial dysbiosis which may

interfere with conversion.

Based on studies that did not differentiate between the synthetic

derivative retinol (known to cause birth defects) and the full

natural vitamin A molecule, our govt. has trotted out the scare

tactics about vitamin A. This is the info most Americans are exposed

to. This unreasonable and non-evidence based theory needs to be

questioned and not taken at face value.

Having said that, I'm not encouraging anyone to load their children

up with outrageous amounts of vitamin A!

Suze

June 3, 2004

--- In , " Suze Fisher "

>

> Based on studies that did not differentiate between the synthetic

> derivative retinol (known to cause birth defects) and the full

> natural vitamin A molecule, our govt. has trotted out the scare

> tactics about vitamin A. This is the info most Americans are

exposed

> to. This unreasonable and non-evidence based theory needs to be

> questioned and not taken at face value.

>

> Having said that, I'm not encouraging anyone to load their

children

> up with outrageous amounts of vitamin A!

>

> Suze

Hi,

This wasn't about birth defects or government literature. It's

about overdosing with the use of supplements. On pubmed there is

case after case after case. Below is a very, very small sampling of

what's been published. The overdoses were from both natural

and synthetic.

I'm glad you're not encouraging the use of outrageous amounts since

there are cases of children being overdosed even 25yrs ago.

Excessive vitamin A can damage their brain, liver, spleen, bones,

eyes, sperm cells and just about every cell and organ in the body.

There is even literature on increased cancer risk.

JAMA. 1977 Oct 17;238(16):1749-50.

Megavitamins for minimal brain dysfunction. A potentially dangerous

therapy.

Shaywitz BA, Siegel NJ, Pearson HA.

Vitamin A intoxication as a consequence of megavitamin therapy for

minimal brain dysfunction occurred in a 4-year-old boy. An early

clue to diagnosis was provided by an abnormal bone scan.

Publication Types:

Case Reports

PMID: 578271 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Pediatr Ann. 2003 Aug;32(8):500-3. Related Articles, Links

A 30-month-old boy with developmental regression and

hepatosplenomegaly.

Listernick R.

MeSH Terms

Child, Preschool

Developmental Disabilities/diagnosis*

Developmental Disabilities/etiology

Diagnosis, Differential

Human

Hypervitaminosis A/diagnosis*

Liver Diseases/diagnosis*

Liver Diseases/etiology

Male

Splenomegaly/diagnosis*

Splenomegaly/etiology

Vitamin A/administration & dosage

Vitamin K/administration & dosage

Substances

Vitamin A

Vitamin K

PMID: 12942891 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLIN

Ann Ophthalmol. 1985 Jul;17(7):397-402. Related Articles, Links

Optic disk findings in hypervitaminosis A.

Marcus DF, Turgeon P, Aaberg TM, Wiznia RA, Wetzig PC, Bovino JA.

Three cases of papilledema secondary to chronic excessive vitamin A

intake are presented, and the optic disk changes are documented with

intravenous fluorescein angiography. Two of the three patients

reported in this study were symptomatic with blurred vision and

systemic complaints. The symptoms of blurred vision and systemic

complaints disappeared within one week, and papilledema resolved

over several months after discontinuance of vitamin A. The

fluorescein angiographic changes observed in the optic disk of

patients with hypervitaminosis A are similar to those associated

with other known causes of papilledema. Since vitamin A is a

nonprescription drug, and its indiscriminate use is potentially

great, any history of vitamin ingestion should be elicited during

the evaluation of papilledema.

Publication Types:

Case Reports

PMID: 4037599 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Curr Opin Ophthalmol. 2003 Dec;14(6):364-70.

Pseudotumor cerebri.

Mathews MK, Sergott RC, Savino PJ.

SUMMARY: PURPOSE OF REVIEW To discuss the current standard in

diagnosis and treatment of pseudotumor cerebri (PTC), the syndrome

of increased intracranial pressure without a brain tumor. Since PTC

is a diagnosis of exclusion, the differential diagnostic work-up is

of special importance.RECENT FINDINGS Modern imaging techniques have

facilitated the differential diagnosis of PTC.

Various therapeutic options are available to prevent irreversible

visual loss. New treatment modalities are being explored, but the

standard therapy has undergone little change in the past

years.SUMMARY PTC, a potentially blinding disease, most commonly

manifests with headache and slightly blurred vision due to

papilledema. This review seeks to present a methodical approach to

its diagnosis and treatment.

PMID: 14615641 [PubMed - in process]

Sass JO, Arnhold T, Tzimas G, son DM.

Serum vitamin A is elevated in idiopathic intracranial hypertension.

Neurology. 2000 Jun 13;54(11):2192-3. No abstract available.

PMID: 10851402 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Fishman RA. Related Articles, Links

Polar bear liver, vitamin A, aquaporins, and pseudotumor cerebri.

Ann Neurol. 2002 Nov;52(5):531-3. No abstract available.

PMID: 12402248 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Selhorst JB, Kulkantrakorn K, Corbett JJ, Leira EC, Chung SM.

Related Articles, Links

[Psoriasis and chronic vitamin A poisoning]

An Esp Pediatr. 1986 Nov;25(5):372-4. Spanish.

PMID: 3813230 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

9: Beijer C, Planken EV. Related Articles, Links

[Hypercalcemia due to chronic vitamin A use by an elderly patient

with renal insufficiency]

Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd. 2001 Jan 13;145(2):90-3. Dutch.

PMID: 11225264 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

10: Frater J. Related Articles, Links

Hyperostotic polyarthropathy in a rabbit--a suspected case of

chronic hypervitaminosis A from a diet of carrots.

Aust Vet J. 2001 Sep;79(9):608-11.

PMID: 11702930 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

11: DR, Owen G, IA, Goodchild MC. Related Articles,

Links

Vitamin A absorption in cystic fibrosis: risk of hypervitaminosis A.

Gut. 1992 May;33(5):707-10.

PMID: 1612491 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

12: Theiler R, Wirth HP, Flury R, Hanck A, Michel BA. Related

Articles, Links

[Chronic vitamin A poisoning with musculoskeletal symptoms and

morphological changes of the liver: a case report]

Schweiz Med Wochenschr. 1993 Dec 28;123(51-52):2405-12. German.

PMID: 8290933 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

13: Mahoney CP, Margolis MT, Knauss TA, Labbe RF. Related Articles,

Links

Chronic vitamin A intoxication in infants fed chicken liver.

Pediatrics. 1980 May;65(5):893-7.

PMID: 7189278 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

14: Zolenko D, Moisse R, Lamy V, Lachapelle JM. Related Articles,

Links

[Chronic vitamin A poisoning: a difficult diagnosis]

Acta Clin Belg. 1987;42(1):43-7. French. No abstract available.

PMID: 3591215 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

15: Doireau V, Macher MA, Brun P, Bernard O, Loirat C. Related

Articles, Links

[Vitamin A poisoning revealed by hypercalcemia in a child with

kidney failure]

Arch Pediatr. 1996 Sep;3(9):888-90. French.

PMID: 8949352 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

16: [No authors listed] Related Articles, Links

The use and abuse of vitamin A.

Can Med Assoc J. 1971 Mar 20;104(6):521-2. No abstract available.

PMID: 5549994 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

17: Bendich A, Langseth L. Related Articles, Links

Safety of vitamin A.

Am J Clin Nutr. 1989 Feb;49(2):358-71. Review.

PMID: 2492745 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

18: Chiancone FM. Related Articles, Links

[The concept of hypervitaminosis as a dysvitaminosis and its

relationship with overdosage and overload. Etiopathogenetic

classification of dysvitaminoses]

Acta Vitaminol Enzymol. 1984;6(4):305-11. Italian.

PMID: 6534174 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

19: Lippe B, Hensen L, Mendoza G, Finerman M, Welch M. Related

Articles, Links

Chronic vitamin A intoxication. A multisystem disease that could

reach epidemic proportions.

Am J Dis Child. 1981 Jul;135(7):634-6.

PMID: 7246491 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

20: Marino GG, Iacolucci JP. Related Articles, Links

Acute adult vitamin A toxicity: report of a case.

J Am Osteopath Assoc. 1987 Aug;87(8):563-5. No abstract available.

PMID: 3667357 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

June 3, 2004

> This wasn't about birth defects or government literature. It's

> about overdosing with the use of supplements. On pubmed there is

> case after case after case.

Pubmed is the official mouthpiece of the MD religion and is not

credible on such topics.

If you actually READ the literature there is ONE case of a death in the

last 100 years. Table salt is way more dangerous, as is tap water.

Andy . . .. . . . . .

June 3, 2004

Vomiting up a bunch of pubmed abstracts without reading the articles

and knowing what they say is even more irresponsible than randomly

giving your kid lots of vitamins to see what happens.

If pubmed contained all the information we needed, all the autistic

kids would be cured already and everyone would be taking megavitamins

(appropriately).

Add to this the fact that the abstyracts often do not accurately convey

the information in the papers, which is often somewhat biased.

PubMed IS a government information source - it is run by the feds,

indexes stuff in journals they select (and not in ones they don't

like), and essentially all of the papers indexed were paid for with

either government funding or drug company money.

ABMD seems to be the place to troll pubmed for abstracts to use in a

fun game of biomedical gin rummy. Autism mercury is where parents try

to figure out what is going on to help their kids, and pubmed abstracts

play a relatively small part of that (reading the actual papers plays a

bigger but still not dominant part of it).

Andy . . .. . . .

June 3, 2004

> > This wasn't about birth defects or government literature. It's

> > about overdosing with the use of supplements. On pubmed there

is

> > case after case after case.

>

> Pubmed is the official mouthpiece of the MD religion and is not

> credible on such topics.

>

> If you actually READ the literature there is ONE case of a death

in the

> last 100 years. Table salt is way more dangerous, as is tap water.

>

> Andy . . .. . . . . .

Andy...I have read the literature and I'm not talking about death.

I'm not sure why you're trying to discount information based on

actual cases from many different sources based on actual findings in

their patients.

As one non-medical professional to another....it's something parents

should at least be aware of. (especially when we keep reading about

children taking excessive doses developing the symptoms of poisoning

like rashes, blurred vision, headaches, etc.)

I'm not going to argue with you about the validity of the

findings...although I'd imagine the parents of children with

increased intercranial pressure, blurred vision, seizures, etc. or

who died during the VitA megadosing campaign probably would.

June 4, 2004

> Vomiting up a bunch of pubmed abstracts without reading the

articles

> and knowing what they say is even more irresponsible than randomly

> giving your kid lots of vitamins to see what happens.

>

> If pubmed contained all the information we needed, all the autistic

> kids would be cured already and everyone would be taking

megavitamins

> (appropriately).

>

> Add to this the fact that the abstyracts often do not accurately

convey

> the information in the papers, which is often somewhat biased.

>

> PubMed IS a government information source - it is run by the feds,

> indexes stuff in journals they select (and not in ones they don't

> like), and essentially all of the papers indexed were paid for with

> either government funding or drug company money.

>

LOL! Yes! I couldn't agree more. I am layperson, but even with my

lack of technical-ese when reading abstracts and studies (depending

on the subject), I have noticed that the conclusions in the abstract

often don't support the actual data. And the bias is sometimes

glaring, sometimes subtle. I wouldn't have noticed this myself had it

not be pointed out by Enig, biochemist, and author of " Know Your

Fats " . Uffe Ravnskov has also abundantly pointed out this phenomenon

in his research and writings on the popular medical myth that

cholesterol and saturated fat cause heart disease.

It really points out that it is absolutely necessary to read the

actual study itself, not just the abstract, and in some cases to read

and calculate the raw *data* oneself to get to the true findings of

the study. Especially since data can be organized in several

different ways, which may point toward different conclusions,

depending on how one chooses to organize it.

Suze

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