Re: Children Losing Their diagnosis with chelation/

[Guest guest]

Hi :

On the last DAN think-tank conference, I assume you attended. Someone who

attended told me that their was a toxicologist there talking about chelating and

how it would do more harm than good. In simple terms...... basically stated

that the mercury that is in the body from vaccinations have already caused the

damage and chelating it will only move it around and my cause damage to other

areas. I've been debating whether to chelate my 4yo son or not, it's very hard

to decide because there is so much information out there, one says chelate

because kids will get better and their guts will improve and others say don't

chelate because you'll cause more damage.

My son has been on the Specific Carb Diet w/supplements and is doing ABA / VBA,

OT and Speech Therapy which all has helped alot, especially the diet.

I'm not asking you to decide for me whether or not to chelate my son, but in

your professional experience and all the conferences you have attended, do you

feel it helps kids more than it harms them???? What do you think is the best

protocol....????

Thank you.

Jeanne

Binstock <binstock@...> wrote:

The physicians I work with (as consultant, as DAN think-tank colleague)

generally stress that, after healing the gut and boosting nutritional

status, chelation (if necessary) and antivirals (if necessary) are

enacted. During the entire sequence, training-based therapies are held

to be important, whether ABA or whatever is available and appropriate to

the specific child.

There is a danger is succumbing to demands for single variable models,

as is likely to happen as more ivory-tower researchers turn their

attention to biomed approaches. Of course, occasional anecdotes about a

child who did the gut-healing, nutritional optimization, chelation

sequence and did so w/o ABA can be informative, but overall most kids

treated with the DAN-esque sequence including chelation belong to

parents who have been encouraged to continue training concurrently with

the other therapies.

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

Jeanne,

I attended and participated in the think-tank in New Orleans (Jan 2004).

Background: (in many but not all children) the amounts of Hg being

excreted by chelation far exceeds the amount injected during

vaccinations. Many and perhaps most kids who excrete metals improve,

especially if the child is young at the time chelation is initiated

(Post to follow, later today).

At the tank, we did discuss the mechanisms by which improvements occur

during chelation (in many but not all children) as metals are excreted.

As Vas Aposian (PhD, toxicologist) pointed out, at least some lab

studies in some species (rats?) have shown that DMSA does not cross the

BBB, thus why and how the improvements during chelation? A sulphur

effect? Removing metals from liver, etc? No one has all the answers to

these important questions.

The think-tankers discussed DMSA versus other methods (and combined

methods) such as TTFD, etc -- which I won't elaborate upon because the

concensus of the think-tank was divided: many docs still use DMSA,others

use the TTFD-etc approach. The think-tankers felt this to be an

important topic to focus upon in the near future.

Personally, my feeling as a non-MD researcher is that, generally

speaking (and any one child may be the exception), DMSA chelation in the

context of gut healing, nutrional optimizing, and lab tests is safe (and

has FDA approval for lead chelation in children, thus lots ot data re:

safety). Many and perhaps most kids amidst DAN-esque chelation (gut

healing, nutrional optimizing, and lab tests) show some improvement or

much improvement or major improvement.

Jeanne Bono wrote:

>Hi :

>

>On the last DAN think-tank conference, I assume you attended. Someone who

attended told me that their was a toxicologist there talking about chelating and

how it would do more harm than good. In simple terms...... basically stated

that the mercury that is in the body from vaccinations have already caused the

damage and chelating it will only move it around and my cause damage to other

areas. I've been debating whether to chelate my 4yo son or not, it's very hard

to decide because there is so much information out there, one says chelate

because kids will get better and their guts will improve and others say don't

chelate because you'll cause more damage.

>

>My son has been on the Specific Carb Diet w/supplements and is doing ABA / VBA,

OT and Speech Therapy which all has helped alot, especially the diet.

>

>I'm not asking you to decide for me whether or not to chelate my son, but in

your professional experience and all the conferences you have attended, do you

feel it helps kids more than it harms them???? What do you think is the best

protocol....????

>

>Thank you.

>

>Jeanne

>

> Binstock <binstock@...> wrote:

>The physicians I work with (as consultant, as DAN think-tank colleague)

>generally stress that, after healing the gut and boosting nutritional

>status, chelation (if necessary) and antivirals (if necessary) are

>enacted. During the entire sequence, training-based therapies are held

>to be important, whether ABA or whatever is available and appropriate to

>the specific child.

>

>There is a danger is succumbing to demands for single variable models,

>as is likely to happen as more ivory-tower researchers turn their

>attention to biomed approaches. Of course, occasional anecdotes about a

>child who did the gut-healing, nutritional optimization, chelation

>sequence and did so w/o ABA can be informative, but overall most kids

>treated with the DAN-esque sequence including chelation belong to

>parents who have been encouraged to continue training concurrently with

>the other therapies.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This passage and its citations are informative regarding pulling toxic

metals from autism-spectrum kids. You may forward as you wish. I wrote

the following in response to a PhD's question:

" 3. Do you believe that immune-compromised children with autism are

suffering from mercury exposure from other environmental sources? "

Many and probably most immune- and

detoxification-compromised children with autism and other

autism-spectrum disorders are suffering from exposures to various forms

of Hg and to other environmental toxins, such as arsenic. Steve Edelson,

MD, published a related article. Jane El-Dahr, MD & colleagues presented

a chelation-efficacy abstract at an IMFAR conference, and more recently

Derrick Lonsdale & colleagues had published a report documenting arsenic

excretion and cognitive improvements in response to TTFD (6-8).

In retrospect: Bernard S et al distributed hundreds of

hard-copies of the 80page, 400+ citations of the original

thimerosal/autism paper. In late Spring of 2001, a condensed version of

that paper was published in Medical Hypotheses. Those two papers

prompted a number of physicians to re-look at chelation in autism. Many

such physicians were aware of Edelson et al (6) but had turned their

attention to other modalities (eg, gut healing, nutritional status via

lab tests, etc). However, when prompted by the documentation in the

thimerosal paper's long-version, these physicians initiated chelation

(especially after an Autism Research Institute conference generated a

DMSA-based chelation protocol) and found (a) with much inter-individual

variation, toxic metals including but not limited to mercury and arsenic

were being excreted during chelation, and ( many autism-spectrum kids

so treated showed major improvements, especially if the chelation

therapy were begun while the child was young (eg, 7). Also helpful is

Pediatric Immunologist Jane El-Dahr's power-point presentation on this

topic (9).

Are the " other environmental sources " primary etiologic factors

in autism? My intuition says Yes, but when Geier and Geier compared kids

who received several DPT with thimerosal versus kids who received

several DPT w/o thimerosal, the results were striking. Virtually all of

the autism cases occurred in the kids who had been injected with

thimerosal. That finding (across 80,000 kids versus 70,000 kids, eg,

cite 4 and see his published papers on this topic) suggests that, while

non-vaccinal environmental factors may have contributed to excessively

increased susceptibility, a primary etiologic agent for autism has been

thimerosal injections.

Binstock

Researcher in Developmental & Behavioral Neuroanatomy

binstock@...

6a: Edelson SB, Cantor DS.

Autism: xenobiotic influences.

Toxicol Ind Health. 1998 Nov-Dec;14(6):799-811.

6b: Edelson SB, Cantor DS.

Autism: xenobiotic influences.

Toxicol Ind Health. 1998 Jul-Aug;14(4):553-63.

7a. as submitted to IMFAR, June 2, 2001 IMMUNE DYSFUNCTION AND

AUTOIMMUNITY IN AUTISM: COMPARISONS WITH EFFECTS OF MERCURY (Hg) ON THE

IMMUNE SYSTEM. J.M. El-Dahr. Tulane University Medical Center, New

Orleans, LA 70112.

A variety of immune abnormalities has been described in children

with autism. Studies have found 30-70% of patients differ from controls

for nearly every immune marker examined. The tendency for a shift in the

immune system towards TH2 and away from TH1 immunity is frequently

found. Children often have high IgE, normal to low IgG, decreased NK

cell numbers and activity, and abnormal lymphocyte numbers and

populations. Increased reactivity to food antigens is also documented.

Apoptosis appears to be increased, possibly including in the CNS.

It has been particularly puzzling that virtually every researcher who

has tested children with autism for anti-brain antibodies has found

them: anti-MBP, anti-GFAP, anti-NAFP, anti-temporal lobe endothelium,

and anti-serotonin receptor Abs have all been found. There is also a

higher than expected rate of autoimmune disease in immediate families

and a suggestion that MHC types predisposing to autoimmunity may be

over-represented.

Low levels of mercury have long been demonstrated to significantly

affect the immune system in both animals and men. A shift towards TH2

and away from TH1 with decreased NK cell activity, high IgE, and low IgG

is often found. Hg induces IgG and IgE to foods and alters proteins,

thereby inducing apoptosis and engendering autoimmunity. A variety of

auto-antibodies are seen and the number of different types of anti-brain

Abs is a marker of the neurotoxicity of the exposure. The immune

response to mercury is controlled both by MHC genes and those

influencing toxicokinetics.

The many parallels lend credence to the possible connection between

mercury exposure and autism and explain autoimmunity better than other

models to date.

7b. as submitted to IMFAR, June 2, 2001

OPEN TRIAL OF CHELATION WITH MES0-2,3-DIMERCAPTO SUCCINIC ACID (DMSA)

AND LIPOIC ACID (LA) IN CHILDREN WITH AUTISM.

A. Holmes, S. Cave, and J.M. El-Dahr;

Private Practice, Baton Rouge, LA 70808 and Tulane University Medical

Center, New Orleans, LA, 70112.

Over 400 patients with autism are currently undergoing treatment for

removal of heavy metals. Patients are treated with DMSA alone at doses

of 10 mg/kg/dose 3 times a day for 3 days in a row (shorter duration

than lead protocol to decrease side effects) with 11 days " off " to allow

metals to re-equilibrate. After at least 2 rounds of DMSA alone, the

thiol antioxidant lipoic acid (hypothesized to aide in removal of heavy

metals across the BBB)is added to each dose of DMSA at 2-3mg/kg/dose.

In general, noticeable improvements in language, self-help skills,

interaction, and core autistic features are not seen until the patient

has been on DMSA with LA for 2-3 months.

Of patients who have been on DMSA/LA for at least 4 months, these

results have been noted on general global assessment by parents,

teachers, and MDs: age 1-5yrs(n=40): marked improvement 35%, moderate

39%, slight 15%, none 11%; age 6-12yrs (n=25): marked 4%, moderate 28%,

slight 52%, none 16%; age 13-17 (n=16): moderate 6%, slight 68%, none

26%; age 18+ (n=4): slight 25%, none 75%. For example, a boy 5yr 5mo

scored in the average range on a one word expressive vocabulary test

10/00 and at age equivalent 8yr 2mo in 3/01 with no change in education

or medication other than starting DMSA/LA.

The majority of children excrete mercury, lead, and other metals,

suggesting that there may be a generalized problem with metal

metabolism. Side effects include transient increases in hyperactivity,

self-stimulatory behavior, and loose stools. Younger children in

particular respond well to this therapy with significant improvement in

function.

[For medical reasons, Dr. Amy Holmes is retired and very difficult to

contact.]

8. Lonsdale D, Shamberger RJ, Audhya T.

Treatment of autism spectrum children with thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl

disulfide: a pilot study.

Neuroendocrinol Lett. 2002 Aug;23(4):303-8.

9. Jane El-Dahr, M.D. -- The Thimerosal Concern and Treatment for

Mercury Toxicity <http://216.117.159.91/powerpoint/dan2002/El-Dahr.htm>

http://216.117.159.91/powerpoint/dan2002/El-Dahr.htm

10. http://www.autism.com/ari/dan/mercury.pdf

[Guest guest]

:

Thank you for responding..... DMSA doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, but

what about ALA, isn't that why this is used for??? I've also heard that TTFD is

really not a chelator, so why use it and put more stress on the liver? Are you

saying that DMSA is gut healing because the mercury is coming out, because

doesn't it cause gut problems, like yeast??? Just curious, but do you know why

it causes yeast? Sorry for all the questions, I'm still trying to get all the

information I can before deciding whether to do it or not. Thank you.

Jeanne

Binstock <binstock@...> wrote:

Jeanne,

I attended and participated in the think-tank in New Orleans (Jan 2004).

Background: (in many but not all children) the amounts of Hg being

excreted by chelation far exceeds the amount injected during

vaccinations. Many and perhaps most kids who excrete metals improve,

especially if the child is young at the time chelation is initiated

(Post to follow, later today).

At the tank, we did discuss the mechanisms by which improvements occur

during chelation (in many but not all children) as metals are excreted.

As Vas Aposian (PhD, toxicologist) pointed out, at least some lab

studies in some species (rats?) have shown that DMSA does not cross the

BBB, thus why and how the improvements during chelation? A sulphur

effect? Removing metals from liver, etc? No one has all the answers to

these important questions.

The think-tankers discussed DMSA versus other methods (and combined

methods) such as TTFD, etc -- which I won't elaborate upon because the

concensus of the think-tank was divided: many docs still use DMSA,others

use the TTFD-etc approach. The think-tankers felt this to be an

important topic to focus upon in the near future.

Personally, my feeling as a non-MD researcher is that, generally

speaking (and any one child may be the exception), DMSA chelation in the

context of gut healing, nutrional optimizing, and lab tests is safe (and

has FDA approval for lead chelation in children, thus lots ot data re:

safety). Many and perhaps most kids amidst DAN-esque chelation (gut

healing, nutrional optimizing, and lab tests) show some improvement or

much improvement or major improvement.

Jeanne Bono wrote:

>Hi :

>

>On the last DAN think-tank conference, I assume you attended. Someone who

attended told me that their was a toxicologist there talking about chelating and

how it would do more harm than good. In simple terms...... basically stated that

the mercury that is in the body from vaccinations have already caused the damage

and chelating it will only move it around and my cause damage to other areas.

I've been debating whether to chelate my 4yo son or not, it's very hard to

decide because there is so much information out there, one says chelate because

kids will get better and their guts will improve and others say don't chelate

because you'll cause more damage.

>

>My son has been on the Specific Carb Diet w/supplements and is doing ABA / VBA,

OT and Speech Therapy which all has helped alot, especially the diet.

>

>I'm not asking you to decide for me whether or not to chelate my son, but in

your professional experience and all the conferences you have attended, do you

feel it helps kids more than it harms them???? What do you think is the best

protocol....????

>

>Thank you.

>

>Jeanne

>

> Binstock wrote:

>The physicians I work with (as consultant, as DAN think-tank colleague)

>generally stress that, after healing the gut and boosting nutritional

>status, chelation (if necessary) and antivirals (if necessary) are

>enacted. During the entire sequence, training-based therapies are held

>to be important, whether ABA or whatever is available and appropriate to

>the specific child.

>

>There is a danger is succumbing to demands for single variable models,

>as is likely to happen as more ivory-tower researchers turn their

>attention to biomed approaches. Of course, occasional anecdotes about a

>child who did the gut-healing, nutritional optimization, chelation

>sequence and did so w/o ABA can be informative, but overall most kids

>treated with the DAN-esque sequence including chelation belong to

>parents who have been encouraged to continue training concurrently with

>the other therapies.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> :

>

> Thank you for responding..... DMSA doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, but

what about ALA, isn't that why this is used for??? I've also heard that TTFD is

really not a chelator, so why use it and put more stress on the liver? Are you

saying that DMSA is gut healing because the mercury is coming out, because

doesn't it cause gut problems, like yeast??? Just curious, but do you know why

it causes yeast? Sorry for all the questions, I'm still trying to get all the

information I can before deciding whether to do it or not. Thank you.

>

> Jeanne

>

> Binstock <binstock@p...> wrote:

> No one has all the answers to

> these important questions.

No one DAN! wants to listen to, anyway.

DMSA suppresses neutrophils which are in charge of controlling yeast.

Thus it is a " yeast pill " or " yeast explosion detonator " for many

people.

ALA does cross the BBB. It is in fact used for this purpose.

You are correct that TTFD is not a chelator. No other conclusion can

rationally be drawn from the evailable data, as published by Lonsdale,

which is confirmed by other unpublished data. It also has a high

adverse reaction rate. Use of TTFD is not appropriate in most autistic

children.

In the long term DMSA (and ALA, and DMPS) do improve yeast by clearing

mercury out of the gut. In the short term DMSA in particular can

increase it.

Andy . . . . . . . . . .