Re: Any Evidence of Children Losing Their diagnosis with chelation

[Guest guest]

That is a problem for most therapies. No one does just one thing. You do

as much as you can: OT, ABA, S & L, Biomed, etc. Who knows whether it is one

of these, the combination of them, or simply the time/maturity that does it.

Best,

Lora

_________________________________________________________________

Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech

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[Guest guest]

In " Autism: A novel form of mercury poisoning " (1999 - the long

version) case studies are provided. The paper should be in file for

autism treatment, also at ARI and safeminds.org.

.....I would appreciate any comments or stories that I might be able

to use

> to help inform those who believe we are doing more harm than good.

>

> Thank you all!

>

>

[Guest guest]

" I would love to see any anectdotal evidence of kids who have

been treated, I assume you mean with chelation therapy, who

have been diagnosed with autism and who have then lost their

diagnosis, especially if they had no other therapies or

interventions such as ABA, which also causes children to lose

their diagnosis in some cases.

That's the trick, is finding a child who's only intervention at the

time was a particular treatment, because often these kids do

have ABA in addition.

Can you please forward or post any articles you have of any

children who have lost their diagnosis after chelation? Having

two children with autism I would be very interested in reading of

cases where children recovered following this treatment. "

*************************

Does this mean no other biomedical interventions or just no

other interventions/therapies like ABA, Sonrise, Floortime, etc?

Jody

mom to -5 and -7

[Guest guest]

The physicians I work with (as consultant, as DAN think-tank colleague)

generally stress that, after healing the gut and boosting nutritional

status, chelation (if necessary) and antivirals (if necessary) are

enacted. During the entire sequence, training-based therapies are held

to be important, whether ABA or whatever is available and appropriate to

the specific child.

There is a danger is succumbing to demands for single variable models,

as is likely to happen as more ivory-tower researchers turn their

attention to biomed approaches. Of course, occasional anecdotes about a

child who did the gut-healing, nutritional optimization, chelation

sequence and did so w/o ABA can be informative, but overall most kids

treated with the DAN-esque sequence including chelation belong to

parents who have been encouraged to continue training concurrently with

the other therapies.

[Guest guest]

ps: paragraph 3 has been added to original post.

Binstock wrote:

> The physicians I work with (as consultant, as DAN think-tank colleague)

> generally stress that, after healing the gut and boosting nutritional

> status, chelation (if necessary) and antivirals (if necessary) are

> enacted. During the entire sequence, training-based therapies are held

> to be important, whether ABA or whatever is available and appropriate to

> the specific child.

>

> There is a danger is succumbing to demands for single variable models,

> as is likely to happen as more ivory-tower researchers turn their

> attention to biomed approaches. Of course, occasional anecdotes about a

> child who did the gut-healing, nutritional optimization, chelation

> sequence and did so w/o ABA can be informative, but overall most kids

> treated with the DAN-esque sequence including chelation belong to

> parents who have been encouraged to continue training concurrently with

> the other therapies.

>

> Academic and NIH researchers who want to discredit chelation will be

> able to do so by separating it away from gut healing and nutritional

> optimizing. On a list of DAN docs and researchers, we've been

> discussing experimental designs whereby the efficacy of a CSB/DAN-like

> approach could be compared to the efficacy of a do-no-biomed approach.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear , I have a number of thoughts.

First, here is a collection of comments from (mostly) parents

about the effects of chelation:

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/LOVE_LETTERS.html

Few (if any) of these will tell you even WHETHER other therapies

are being used, or WHAT other therapies. None the less, it

may be of some interest to you, whether or not it is useful to

make points with your " debate " .

Secondly, even if a number of therapies all result in " losing

diagnosis " for some number of kids, that does NOT make these

methods equal. I would also consider WHAT PERCENTAGE of kids

" lose diagnosis " to be important, AND I would also consider it

VERY important how many kids " improve " but do not have Dx

removed. In other words, what is the overall number of kids

who improve, and how much do they improve. I do not think

there is anything resembling good data on this for chelation.

The chart on Dr. Amy Holmes site is a start on the subject.

There is a link to it at the END of the LOVE_LETTERS file

(the link above).

Thirdly, for the benefit of someone who DOES think that

anecdotal evidence counts, I would point out that a number

of parents report improvements that they clearly correlate

with the time when chelation is going on. NOT over the

period of a year, more like " during the first round of

chelation he started to make eye contact, during the

second round of chelation he began to say BA. " (This

is an entirely " made up " example.) While I don't think

this is true for the majority of parents chelating, there

are SOME parents who make observations of exactly the

kind I just said. For someone who wants a double-blind

study with no other factors, this would not matter. To

ME however, it seems like quite useful information.

I hope you and the parent you are discussing it with find

this information useful. LOVE_LETTERS is a big big file,

and it will take time to read it --- I suspect it will

have an effect on anyone who takes the time to read it all.

good wishes,

Moria

> Listmates,

>

> I am in a debate with my local autism group about

> mercury/autism/chelating and recovery.

>

> Here is a post I recieved:

>

>

>

> " I would love to see any anectdotal evidence of kids who have been

> treated, I assume you mean with chelation therapy, who have been

> diagnosed with autism and who have then lost their diagnosis,

> especially if they had no other therapies or interventions such as

> ABA, which also causes children to lose their diagnosis in some cases.

> That's the trick, is finding a child who's only intervention at the

> time was a particular treatment, because often these kids do have ABA

> in addition.

>

> Can you please forward or post any articles you have of any children

> who have lost their diagnosis after chelation? Having two children

> with autism I would be very interested in reading of cases where

> children recovered following this treatment. "

>

>

>

> I would appreciate any comments or stories that I might be able to use

> to help inform those who believe we are doing more harm than good.

>

> Thank you all!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jody

Let us assume they mean only ABA, Sonrise, Floortime.

I think their point is that ABA etc. can be curing children and not

chelation. So she wants " proof " that chelation is the real cause of a

child losing their diagnosis and not ABA etc.

I'm sure they are as skeptical of supps and diets etc. as they are of

the whole mercury issue. At least this is what they keep throwing at

me when I try to explain the benefits.

Thanks for your help!!

On Wednesday, March 3, 2004, at 02:22 PM, Jody G. wrote:

>       " I would love to see any anectdotal evidence of kids who have

> been  treated, I assume you mean with       chelation therapy, who

> have been  diagnosed with autism and who have then lost their

> diagnosis,        especially if they had no other therapies or

> interventions such as  ABA, which also causes children to lose      

> their diagnosis in some cases.

> That's the trick, is finding a child who's only intervention at the

> time was a       particular treatment, because often these kids do

> have ABA  in addition.

>

> Can you please forward or post any articles you have of any

> children  who have lost their diagnosis after       chelation? Having

> two children  with autism I would be very interested in reading of

> cases where  children       recovered following this treatment. "

> *************************

>

> Does this mean no other biomedical interventions or just no

> other interventions/therapies like ABA, Sonrise, Floortime, etc?

>

>

> Jody

> mom to -5 and -7

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

Cave, MD, has been treating autistic kids for more than a

decade. She was among the pioneers in using thorough lab-tests for

evaluating the children and then based individual treatments upon the

lab data. Dr. Cave has long stressed the importance of training. She

was part of the DAN think-tank that devised a DMSA-based chelation

protocol for autism. I was part of that think-tank, along with appx 30

MDs, PhDs, and a few others. Dr. Cave made an observation based upon her

personal experience as a clinician. Over the years, she had seen a range

of improvements in most but not all of her kids, who as a group

represented a range of types of training. Some improved wonderfully.

But, she pointed out, once she added chelation to her autism practice,

she saw more major improvements than she had previously seen.

Bottom line: without ivory tower statistics - because Dr. Cave is a

busy, thorough, conscientious physician (1) - her impression is that

with all factors somewhat equal (eg, re: training) before and after she

added chelation to her protocol, a major improvement in efficacy

occurred after chelation was added.

FWIW,

(1) Several years ago I spent 2 months as a guest of Dr. Cave and family

and perused hundreds of med records of autism-spectrum children. One of

the biggest surprises was the many kids who had morning amino-acids

(blood) clustered around the 25th percentile -- not the classic

genetic-syndrome low, but instead a mild form of malnutrition that

subserves impaired immunity and impaired detox and that, with much

inter-individual variation, represents various intestinal and

gastrointestinal pathologies.

[Guest guest]

And it's often a different mix of therapies for each child.

S

From: Lora [mailto: lorawilson2000@...]

Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:14:04 -0800

Subject: RE: [ ] Any Evidence of Children Losing Their diagnosis

with chelation

<html><body>

<tt>

That is a problem for most therapies.  No one does just one thing.  You do <BR>

as much as you can: OT, ABA, S & L, Biomed, etc.  Who knows whether it is one <BR>

of these, the combination of them, or simply the time/maturity that does it.<BR>

<BR>

Best,<BR>

Lora<BR>

<BR>

_________________________________________________________________<BR>

Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech <BR>

Hacks & Scams. <a

href= " http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx " >http://special.msn.com/msnbc\

/techsafety.armx</a><BR>

<BR>

</tt>

<br><br>

<tt>

=======================================================<BR>

[Guest guest]

> " I would love to see any anectdotal evidence of kids who have

been

> treated, I assume you mean with chelation therapy, who have

been

> diagnosed with autism and who have then lost their diagnosis,

> especially if they had no other therapies or interventions

such as

> ABA, which also causes children to lose their diagnosis in

some cases.

My son is homeschooled, and I don't do ABA, I do DTT/AVB. I do it

for about 2 hours per day, sometimes less. He does not have outside

therapies.

Chelation [and probably B6] is 100% the cause of his losing all of

his food issues and no longer requiring most supplements. Now all he

needs is anti-viral. I have not had him re-dx yet, but I plan to in

the next few months.

His initial dx was " classic Kanner's autism " . Now he will probably

receive a dx of " language delay " .

For my son, it was a combination of chelation, certain supplements,

and anti-viral. But I can definitively say that those things were

the cause of him losing his dx.

>>Having two children

> with autism I would be very interested in reading of cases where

> children recovered following this treatment. "

My #3 is not dx, altho he would have probably received a PDD dx. He

did not need the aggressive anti-viral, so chelation and supplements

were key for him.

If chelation did cause some harm, it certainly is not noticeable to

me, and the good it has caused DEFINITELY outweighs any harm that

might be there.

I use ALA.

Dana

[Guest guest]

I usually tell parents that they should do a hair test to find out if

their child is mercury toxic. Forget about the autism. If a child is

mercury poisoned then chelation will probably help him/her.

> Listmates,

>

> I am in a debate with my local autism group about

> mercury/autism/chelating and recovery.

>

> Here is a post I recieved:

>

>

>

> " I would love to see any anectdotal evidence of kids who have

been

> treated, I assume you mean with chelation therapy, who have

been

> diagnosed with autism and who have then lost their diagnosis,

> especially if they had no other therapies or interventions

such as

> ABA, which also causes children to lose their diagnosis in

some cases.

> That's the trick, is finding a child who's only intervention at the

> time was a particular treatment, because often these kids do

have ABA

> in addition.

>

> Can you please forward or post any articles you have of any

children

> who have lost their diagnosis after chelation? Having two

children

> with autism I would be very interested in reading of cases where

> children recovered following this treatment. "

>

>

>

> I would appreciate any comments or stories that I might be able to

use

> to help inform those who believe we are doing more harm than good.

>

> Thank you all!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello , Very few children only need one type of

treament to recover from Autism- and that is a fact of life.. the

group of people you are talking with are wasteing your time you have

to figure out what is wrong with your child...( most groups have

something to offer? What do they offer?) If Autism was so cut and

dry on treatments we would know the answer by now. I would give

these people a copy of Jepson MD paper " Understanding Autism "

from The Children's Biomedical Center of Utah.inc and be done with

it..

I did ABA for years it did not recover my son one bit, Biomedical

treatment have brought him to the place he is today- we have done

all the treatment in Jepson's paper and things like correcting his

pH , thyroid Function, and brain chemicals to name a few others- MY

SON WAS VERY SICK AND UNALBE TO FUNCTION

Parents have to be in a dectective mode to figure out what is best

for your child.

ABA may be right to start with if you are able to teach in small

steps... my son was not there when we started ABA - I wish I had the

money to use ABA on him today.

My 2 cents Ann

[Guest guest]

Very well put Ann....

My philosophy has always been that for therapies like ABA or VB or

others to work you have to make your child " available " for the

teaching process. Until I started chelation with my son, he

wasn't really " teachable " . Without the biomedical and dietary

interventions (chelation being the most notable) we feel our son

would be right where he was a year ago. IMHO

Ben

> Hello , Very few children only need one type of

> treament to recover from Autism- and that is a fact of life.. the

> group of people you are talking with are wasteing your time you

have

> to figure out what is wrong with your child...( most groups have

> something to offer? What do they offer?) If Autism was so cut

and

> dry on treatments we would know the answer by now. I would give

> these people a copy of Jepson MD paper " Understanding

Autism "

> from The Children's Biomedical Center of Utah.inc and be done with

> it..

> I did ABA for years it did not recover my son one bit, Biomedical

> treatment have brought him to the place he is today- we have done

> all the treatment in Jepson's paper and things like correcting his

> pH , thyroid Function, and brain chemicals to name a few others-

MY

> SON WAS VERY SICK AND UNALBE TO FUNCTION

> Parents have to be in a dectective mode to figure out what is best

> for your child.

> ABA may be right to start with if you are able to teach in small

> steps... my son was not there when we started ABA - I wish I had

the

> money to use ABA on him today.

> My 2 cents Ann

[Guest guest]

..> Very well put Ann....

>

> My philosophy has always been that for therapies like ABA or VB or

> others to work you have to make your child " available " for the

> teaching process.

I will agree with this as well. My sons behaviorist does not think

Jack is autistic just speech impaired. Little does he know what he

was like three years ago before chelation.

nne

Until I started chelation with my son, he

> wasn't really " teachable " . Without the biomedical and dietary

> interventions (chelation being the most notable) we feel our son

> would be right where he was a year ago. IMHO

>

> Ben

>

>

>

> > Hello , Very few children only need one type of

> > treament to recover from Autism- and that is a fact of life..

the

> > group of people you are talking with are wasteing your time you

> have

> > to figure out what is wrong with your child...( most groups

have

> > something to offer? What do they offer?) If Autism was so cut

> and

> > dry on treatments we would know the answer by now. I would

give

> > these people a copy of Jepson MD paper " Understanding

> Autism "

> > from The Children's Biomedical Center of Utah.inc and be done

with

> > it..

> > I did ABA for years it did not recover my son one bit,

Biomedical

> > treatment have brought him to the place he is today- we have

done

> > all the treatment in Jepson's paper and things like correcting

his

> > pH , thyroid Function, and brain chemicals to name a few others-

> MY

> > SON WAS VERY SICK AND UNALBE TO FUNCTION

> > Parents have to be in a dectective mode to figure out what is

best

> > for your child.

> > ABA may be right to start with if you are able to teach in small

> > steps... my son was not there when we started ABA - I wish I had

> the

> > money to use ABA on him today.

> > My 2 cents Ann