Re: Question about supplements like . . .

[Guest guest]

> fish oils, flaxseed oils, garlic, green tea, certain herbs, and other

> blood-thinning supplements that some of you take (and have

> been given to me by my homeopathic-alternative medicine MD,

> after testing my saliva and urine and coming up with a nutritioncy

> deficiency profile:)

>

> Can the PT/INR scores detect the blood thinning properties of

> these supplements and then reflect them in the numbers, or do

> the numbers only measure the effects of Coumadin/Warfarin on

> the blood?

>

> Or, to ask it another way, is it possible for the blood to be too thin

> because of supplements, but the PT/INR numbers still remain

> below 2.0?

Hi Elynnx, yes, PT test does not test everything, some of the things we

take can affect INR numbers and others might not influence INR but can

alter blood clotting. (and there are disorders which can have a big

impact on clotting ability which may require other tests because they

don't show up on an INR test). The PT is looking at only some of the

pathways that affect clotting time. (aspirin wont change your INR but

will have an impact on how the blood clots by inhibiting platelet

function - not something that is measured with the PT test)

I've just done a quick google, see the related information here....

http://www.mgh.harvard.edu/labmed/lab/coag/handbook/CO003400.htm

--

D

[Guest guest]

D. ~~~ thank you for the information. I read the whole

thing ~~~ and I have no idea what I read (except they talked a lot

about heparin, and I used to get that in my infusa-port when I had

cancer in the '80s and had nearly 2 years of chemo.) Many of

the folks who come here seem to understand so much more

about science and scientific terms than I do.

I never took much science in school (I'm a retired art teacher and

wasn't required to take science in 'the old days') so I really didn't

understand much of the technical terminology that was used on

that page. And my cardio has explained next-to-nothing to me

about my condition.

Thanks to this site and the wonderful people who share their

stories here, I have many questions to ask him when I finally get

to see him again next week (he has finally returned from his

long vacation in India.) In the meantime, does this mean " stay

off of the fish oil supplements? " Actually, I have been, until I get

his OK to take them or I find another cardiologist who

recommends them as being beneficial.

But once again, I thank you for trying to help me out!

Elynnx

> > fish oils, flaxseed oils, garlic, green tea, certain herbs, and

other

> > blood-thinning supplements that some of you take (and have

> > been given to me by my homeopathic-alternative medicine

MD,

> > after testing my saliva and urine and coming up with a

nutritioncy

> > deficiency profile:)

> >

> > Can the PT/INR scores detect the blood thinning properties

of

> > these supplements and then reflect them in the numbers, or

do

> > the numbers only measure the effects of Coumadin/Warfarin

on

> > the blood?

> >

> > Or, to ask it another way, is it possible for the blood to be too

thin

> > because of supplements, but the PT/INR numbers still

remain

> > below 2.0?

>

> Hi Elynnx, yes, PT test does not test everything, some of the

things we

> take can affect INR numbers and others might not influence

INR but can

> alter blood clotting. (and there are disorders which can have a

big

> impact on clotting ability which may require other tests

because they

> don't show up on an INR test). The PT is looking at only some

of the

> pathways that affect clotting time. (aspirin wont change your

INR but

> will have an impact on how the blood clots by inhibiting platelet

> function - not something that is measured with the PT test)

>

> I've just done a quick google, see the related information

here....

>

http://www.mgh.harvard.edu/labmed/lab/coag/handbook/CO003

400.htm

>

>

> --

> D

[Guest guest]

D. ~~~ thank you for the information. I read the whole

thing ~~~ and I have no idea what I read (except they talked a lot

about heparin, and I used to get that in my infusa-port when I had

cancer in the '80s and had nearly 2 years of chemo.) Many of

the folks who come here seem to understand so much more

about science and scientific terms than I do.

I never took much science in school (I'm a retired art teacher and

wasn't required to take science in 'the old days') so I really didn't

understand much of the technical terminology that was used on

that page. And my cardio has explained next-to-nothing to me

about my condition.

Thanks to this site and the wonderful people who share their

stories here, I have many questions to ask him when I finally get

to see him again next week (he has finally returned from his

long vacation in India.) In the meantime, does this mean " stay

off of the fish oil supplements? " Actually, I have been, until I get

his OK to take them or I find another cardiologist who

recommends them as being beneficial.

But once again, I thank you for trying to help me out!

Elynnx

> > fish oils, flaxseed oils, garlic, green tea, certain herbs, and

other

> > blood-thinning supplements that some of you take (and have

> > been given to me by my homeopathic-alternative medicine

MD,

> > after testing my saliva and urine and coming up with a

nutritioncy

> > deficiency profile:)

> >

> > Can the PT/INR scores detect the blood thinning properties

of

> > these supplements and then reflect them in the numbers, or

do

> > the numbers only measure the effects of Coumadin/Warfarin

on

> > the blood?

> >

> > Or, to ask it another way, is it possible for the blood to be too

thin

> > because of supplements, but the PT/INR numbers still

remain

> > below 2.0?

>

> Hi Elynnx, yes, PT test does not test everything, some of the

things we

> take can affect INR numbers and others might not influence

INR but can

> alter blood clotting. (and there are disorders which can have a

big

> impact on clotting ability which may require other tests

because they

> don't show up on an INR test). The PT is looking at only some

of the

> pathways that affect clotting time. (aspirin wont change your

INR but

> will have an impact on how the blood clots by inhibiting platelet

> function - not something that is measured with the PT test)

>

> I've just done a quick google, see the related information

here....

>

http://www.mgh.harvard.edu/labmed/lab/coag/handbook/CO003

400.htm

>

>

> --

> D

[Guest guest]

D. ~~~ thank you for the information. I read the whole

thing ~~~ and I have no idea what I read (except they talked a lot

about heparin, and I used to get that in my infusa-port when I had

cancer in the '80s and had nearly 2 years of chemo.) Many of

the folks who come here seem to understand so much more

about science and scientific terms than I do.

I never took much science in school (I'm a retired art teacher and

wasn't required to take science in 'the old days') so I really didn't

understand much of the technical terminology that was used on

that page. And my cardio has explained next-to-nothing to me

about my condition.

Thanks to this site and the wonderful people who share their

stories here, I have many questions to ask him when I finally get

to see him again next week (he has finally returned from his

long vacation in India.) In the meantime, does this mean " stay

off of the fish oil supplements? " Actually, I have been, until I get

his OK to take them or I find another cardiologist who

recommends them as being beneficial.

But once again, I thank you for trying to help me out!

Elynnx

> > fish oils, flaxseed oils, garlic, green tea, certain herbs, and

other

> > blood-thinning supplements that some of you take (and have

> > been given to me by my homeopathic-alternative medicine

MD,

> > after testing my saliva and urine and coming up with a

nutritioncy

> > deficiency profile:)

> >

> > Can the PT/INR scores detect the blood thinning properties

of

> > these supplements and then reflect them in the numbers, or

do

> > the numbers only measure the effects of Coumadin/Warfarin

on

> > the blood?

> >

> > Or, to ask it another way, is it possible for the blood to be too

thin

> > because of supplements, but the PT/INR numbers still

remain

> > below 2.0?

>

> Hi Elynnx, yes, PT test does not test everything, some of the

things we

> take can affect INR numbers and others might not influence

INR but can

> alter blood clotting. (and there are disorders which can have a

big

> impact on clotting ability which may require other tests

because they

> don't show up on an INR test). The PT is looking at only some

of the

> pathways that affect clotting time. (aspirin wont change your

INR but

> will have an impact on how the blood clots by inhibiting platelet

> function - not something that is measured with the PT test)

>

> I've just done a quick google, see the related information

here....

>

http://www.mgh.harvard.edu/labmed/lab/coag/handbook/CO003

400.htm

>

>

> --

> D

[Guest guest]

> D. ~~~ thank you for the information. I read the whole

> thing ~~~ and I have no idea what I read (except they talked a lot

> about heparin, and I used to get that in my infusa-port when I had

> cancer in the '80s and had nearly 2 years of chemo.) Many of

> the folks who come here seem to understand so much more

> about science and scientific terms than I do.

>

> I never took much science in school (I'm a retired art teacher and

> wasn't required to take science in 'the old days') so I really didn't

> understand much of the technical terminology that was used on

> that page. And my cardio has explained next-to-nothing to me

> about my condition.

>

> Thanks to this site and the wonderful people who share their

> stories here, I have many questions to ask him when I finally get

> to see him again next week (he has finally returned from his

> long vacation in India.) In the meantime, does this mean " stay

> off of the fish oil supplements? " Actually, I have been, until I get

> his OK to take them or I find another cardiologist who

> recommends them as being beneficial.

>

> But once again, I thank you for trying to help me out!

>

> Elynnx

>

I think in general it's a good idea not to go experimenting until you've

researched the potential consequences (I think this is particularly

important if you are taking warfarin). There are plenty of supplements

that will change your INR but if you are consistent with them the only

consequence will be a change in the dosage of warfarin. And there are

other things (like aspirin) which might not show up on the INR test.

Finding a doctor (and/or a good pharmacist) who is willing to work with

you is the trick. Where individuals draw the line on experimenting is of

course up to them - I've done quite a few where I haven't felt the need

to talk them through with my Doctor but I'm not sure I'd recommend

anyone else to do the same

I wasn't really expecting you to read through the link - I was just

highlighting the number of different tests available for measuring

various parts of the clotting process, PT is not a universal test - it

only measures a very specific part of the clotting process.

All the best.

--

D

[Guest guest]

> D. ~~~ thank you for the information. I read the whole

> thing ~~~ and I have no idea what I read (except they talked a lot

> about heparin, and I used to get that in my infusa-port when I had

> cancer in the '80s and had nearly 2 years of chemo.) Many of

> the folks who come here seem to understand so much more

> about science and scientific terms than I do.

>

> I never took much science in school (I'm a retired art teacher and

> wasn't required to take science in 'the old days') so I really didn't

> understand much of the technical terminology that was used on

> that page. And my cardio has explained next-to-nothing to me

> about my condition.

>

> Thanks to this site and the wonderful people who share their

> stories here, I have many questions to ask him when I finally get

> to see him again next week (he has finally returned from his

> long vacation in India.) In the meantime, does this mean " stay

> off of the fish oil supplements? " Actually, I have been, until I get

> his OK to take them or I find another cardiologist who

> recommends them as being beneficial.

>

> But once again, I thank you for trying to help me out!

>

> Elynnx

>

I think in general it's a good idea not to go experimenting until you've

researched the potential consequences (I think this is particularly

important if you are taking warfarin). There are plenty of supplements

that will change your INR but if you are consistent with them the only

consequence will be a change in the dosage of warfarin. And there are

other things (like aspirin) which might not show up on the INR test.

Finding a doctor (and/or a good pharmacist) who is willing to work with

you is the trick. Where individuals draw the line on experimenting is of

course up to them - I've done quite a few where I haven't felt the need

to talk them through with my Doctor but I'm not sure I'd recommend

anyone else to do the same

I wasn't really expecting you to read through the link - I was just

highlighting the number of different tests available for measuring

various parts of the clotting process, PT is not a universal test - it

only measures a very specific part of the clotting process.

All the best.

--

D

[Guest guest]

> D. ~~~ thank you for the information. I read the whole

> thing ~~~ and I have no idea what I read (except they talked a lot

> about heparin, and I used to get that in my infusa-port when I had

> cancer in the '80s and had nearly 2 years of chemo.) Many of

> the folks who come here seem to understand so much more

> about science and scientific terms than I do.

>

> I never took much science in school (I'm a retired art teacher and

> wasn't required to take science in 'the old days') so I really didn't

> understand much of the technical terminology that was used on

> that page. And my cardio has explained next-to-nothing to me

> about my condition.

>

> Thanks to this site and the wonderful people who share their

> stories here, I have many questions to ask him when I finally get

> to see him again next week (he has finally returned from his

> long vacation in India.) In the meantime, does this mean " stay

> off of the fish oil supplements? " Actually, I have been, until I get

> his OK to take them or I find another cardiologist who

> recommends them as being beneficial.

>

> But once again, I thank you for trying to help me out!

>

> Elynnx

>

I think in general it's a good idea not to go experimenting until you've

researched the potential consequences (I think this is particularly

important if you are taking warfarin). There are plenty of supplements

that will change your INR but if you are consistent with them the only

consequence will be a change in the dosage of warfarin. And there are

other things (like aspirin) which might not show up on the INR test.

Finding a doctor (and/or a good pharmacist) who is willing to work with

you is the trick. Where individuals draw the line on experimenting is of

course up to them - I've done quite a few where I haven't felt the need

to talk them through with my Doctor but I'm not sure I'd recommend

anyone else to do the same

I wasn't really expecting you to read through the link - I was just

highlighting the number of different tests available for measuring

various parts of the clotting process, PT is not a universal test - it

only measures a very specific part of the clotting process.

All the best.

--

D

[Guest guest]

> Thanks again, . You wrote: " And there are

> > other things (like aspirin) which might not show up on the INR

> test. " I know that I'm not supposed to take aspirin, and I don't.

>

> But what are some of the other things that might not show up on

> the INR test? That's my concern. If they want to change my

> dosage of Warfarin because I drink Green Tea and eat a salad

> now and then, so be it! But it's the blood thinning agents that

> don't show up on the INR that worry me . . .

>

> Elynnx

>

Sorry to duck the question but I think that's one for your pharmacist or

doctor. The list of interactions with warfarin is pretty long

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/warfarin_wcp.htm

Whilst a lot of these will result in an INR change please don't assume

that all of them will.

--

D

[Guest guest]

> Thanks again, . You wrote: " And there are

> > other things (like aspirin) which might not show up on the INR

> test. " I know that I'm not supposed to take aspirin, and I don't.

>

> But what are some of the other things that might not show up on

> the INR test? That's my concern. If they want to change my

> dosage of Warfarin because I drink Green Tea and eat a salad

> now and then, so be it! But it's the blood thinning agents that

> don't show up on the INR that worry me . . .

>

> Elynnx

>

Sorry to duck the question but I think that's one for your pharmacist or

doctor. The list of interactions with warfarin is pretty long

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/warfarin_wcp.htm

Whilst a lot of these will result in an INR change please don't assume

that all of them will.

--

D