Re: Preparing Your Kids for Job Search Discrimination

[Guest guest]

So what are you suggesting that we as parents do for our children? I assume

that telling them it will be difficult won't really help them to cope?!

I actually know quite a few gainfully employed deaf people, and chose to show my

children those examples. I also know lots of hearing people who have great

trouble finding and keeping jobs. I guess I am just taking the " always do your

best " stand on this. Trying to teach them good values and skills needed to be

successful.

Tawnya

Preparing Your Kids for Job Search Discrimination

(Cross-posted to Parentdeaf-hh)

I realize that most of you have your hands full with fighting for

what your children need in the way of services and education and

socialization. However, there is something else you should be aware

of as you raise your deaf and hard of hearing children to be

productive adults: job search discrimination.

We have had the Americans with Disabilities Act since 1990, but

employment of people with disabilities has actually gotten worse, not

better. According to this article, " Attitude, Not Cost, Barrier to

Disabled Workers "

http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item & itemid=2909

researchers at Cornell University have found that the employment rate

for disabled workers has actually FALLEN from 25 percent in the

1990s, to BELOW 20 percent by 2004.

Oh, my child has good English! I'm not worried. Oh, my child has a

cochlear implant and clear speech! I am not worried. Oh, my child

only has a mild to moderate hearing loss and hears well with hearing

aids! I am not worried.

You SHOULD be worried or at the very least concerned. Let me explain

why, with examples.

Me. Deaf. Educated. Solid work history. Reasonably clear speech. I

have encountered job search discrimination. In early 1997, this

company had me come in for a " second interview " - they took me

around to meet the employees. I sensed the employees were

uncomfortable with deafness. I didn't get the job. In the early

2000s, a hearing friend took calls. Companies were enthusiastic about

my resume. When I returned their calls using relay, the companies

discovered I was deaf and lost interest.

Another example. Quite a few deaf people I know have encountered

mistreatment while making relay calls to potential employers.

Employers will often say things like " e-mail me! don't call me! " I

have posted some of these horror stories on my website at About.com.

Here is one of them: http://deafness.about.com/b/a/14721.htm

Yet another example. A deaf woman I know personally has been

job-searching for more than a year. Recently a company contacted her

to request an interview but when she called them, the interview never

materialized. I posted her experience, with her real name and contact

information, at http://deafness.about.com/b/a/246639.htm .

Still another, from a deaf person with a Master's degree:

http://deafness.about.com/b/a/52896.htm. This one shocked me. This

person had been seeking a job working with disabled people, and was

not hired because of being deaf! The person actually got PROOF of it

when running into one of the potential employers - the potential

employer admitted that she had wanted to hire a hearing person instead.

Hard of hearing people have their own job search frustrations. Here

is a link to a thread from 2004, about a hard of hearing cochlear

implantee having a difficult time finding a job:

http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=2587.1 & nav=messages & webtag=ab-deafn\

ess

So you see, good speech, good hearing (with implants or hearing

aids), good education, and good English are no guarantee of

protection from job search discrimination if you are deaf/hard of

hearing! Unless employers markedly improve their attitudes, your

wonderful, capable deaf and hard of hearing children are going to

grow up and face this in the " hearing world. " The challenge for you

as parents is preparing your children for this. I'm already warning

my own children and telling them what they can expect.

About guide to Deafness/Hard of Hearing

http://deafness.about.com/

All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is

the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright

restrictions.

[Guest guest]

I suggest telling your kids what I am telling mine (and I am

gainfully employed myself so I am a good role model for my kids!):

There will be employers who discriminate, and there will be employers

who don't discriminate. If you encounter discrimination, just keep

trying and eventually you will find an employer willing to give you a

fair chance.

The ADA is toothless, as I like to say, because it only protects job

seekers DURING an interview and AFTER being hired. It does nothing to

protect the job seeker in the job search process. Discrimination in

the job search process is extremely hard to prove and the burden is

on the job seeker to prove it. It is very easy for an employer to

toss aside a resume that in some way reveals or hints that the

applicant is deaf or hard of hearing, and claim that it was because

the applicant was not qualified. I have actually been asked by deaf

people, " How can I hide my deafness on my resume? Is it safe to list

Gallaudet University? Is it safe to list the National Technical

Institute for the Deaf or should I say Rochester Institute of

Technology instead to cover up? " It is very easy for an employer to

mistreat an applicant on the phone in a screening interview, and then

later claim the applicant wasn't given a chance because it was

determined based on the applicant's answers, that the applicant was

not qualified.

Perhaps one way to deal with it, is to approach it the same way black

parents raising their black children do. Discrimination does exist,

and black parents of black children work to prepare their children to

deal with it. Families that adopt interracially work to prepare their

children for dealing with discrimination. Parents of deaf and hard of

hearing children need to do the same, not put on blinders and assume

that because they have done everything right and their children have

excelled, that their children will not encounter discrimination.

Discrimination against the deaf and hard of hearing in the job market

is alive and well, and the numbers prove it.

Do keep showing your children positive deaf and hard of hearing role

models in the working world. That is great! It helps the deaf/hard of

hearing child to know that they can succeed. But, do not pretend that

discrimination does not exist. Tell your children that it does, and

explain how they should deal with it.

About guide to Deafness/Hard of Hearing

http://deafness.about.com/

[Guest guest]

Not sure any parents are pretending discrimination doesn't exist. It think most

all of us either have or will experience it way before our kids need to get a

job.

Thanks for the info.

Tawnya

Re: Preparing Your Kids for Job Search Discrimination

I suggest telling your kids what I am telling mine (and I am

gainfully employed myself so I am a good role model for my kids!):

There will be employers who discriminate, and there will be employers

who don't discriminate. If you encounter discrimination, just keep

trying and eventually you will find an employer willing to give you a

fair chance.

The ADA is toothless, as I like to say, because it only protects job

seekers DURING an interview and AFTER being hired. It does nothing to

protect the job seeker in the job search process. Discrimination in

the job search process is extremely hard to prove and the burden is

on the job seeker to prove it. It is very easy for an employer to

toss aside a resume that in some way reveals or hints that the

applicant is deaf or hard of hearing, and claim that it was because

the applicant was not qualified. I have actually been asked by deaf

people, " How can I hide my deafness on my resume? Is it safe to list

Gallaudet University? Is it safe to list the National Technical

Institute for the Deaf or should I say Rochester Institute of

Technology instead to cover up? " It is very easy for an employer to

mistreat an applicant on the phone in a screening interview, and then

later claim the applicant wasn't given a chance because it was

determined based on the applicant's answers, that the applicant was

not qualified.

Perhaps one way to deal with it, is to approach it the same way black

parents raising their black children do. Discrimination does exist,

and black parents of black children work to prepare their children to

deal with it. Families that adopt interracially work to prepare their

children for dealing with discrimination. Parents of deaf and hard of

hearing children need to do the same, not put on blinders and assume

that because they have done everything right and their children have

excelled, that their children will not encounter discrimination.

Discrimination against the deaf and hard of hearing in the job market

is alive and well, and the numbers prove it.

Do keep showing your children positive deaf and hard of hearing role

models in the working world. That is great! It helps the deaf/hard of

hearing child to know that they can succeed. But, do not pretend that

discrimination does not exist. Tell your children that it does, and

explain how they should deal with it.

About guide to Deafness/Hard of Hearing

http://deafness.about.com/

All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is

the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright

restrictions.

[Guest guest]

I think that they already know full well about discrimination and to tell them

at this tender age that they will have such a hard time succeeding is

counterproductive. We need to encourage them and tell them that if they

persevere, anything is doable. For example, our kids cannot enter the military

and in many places, the police force, because they can't hear. My question is

why not. If they really want to, then let them work in noncombat related

military areas or in other areas. My son expressed interest in these about a

month ago. He is actually ineligible because of having open heart surgery and

several stomach surgeries when he was younger. However, if deafness were the

disability, I'd be supporting him in legislation/litigation to allow him to join

either of these groups. He and I were talking to the County police officer

assigned to his school this week and I asked if he could join the police if he

was deaf. The officer was fairly certain that it would not be possible because

you had to have walked the beat to understand and work with police officers.

When I asked about areas such as the Computer Crimes Division, he indicated that

there were many civilian jobs in that area that would allow similar involvement.

So, though he may not be a policeman, he will still be able to function in a

similar capacity, should he choose to do so. It may not be 100 percent, but it

will be at least 80. I will not " warn " my son. Sometimes, if you're oblivious

to an obstacle, you just go right over it or around it because you don't know

you're not supposed to

[Guest guest]

I think that they already know full well about discrimination and to tell them

at this tender age that they will have such a hard time succeeding is

counterproductive. We need to encourage them and tell them that if they

persevere, anything is doable. For example, our kids cannot enter the military

and in many places, the police force, because they can't hear. My question is

why not. If they really want to, then let them work in noncombat related

military areas or in other areas. My son expressed interest in these about a

month ago. He is actually ineligible because of having open heart surgery and

several stomach surgeries when he was younger. However, if deafness were the

disability, I'd be supporting him in legislation/litigation to allow him to join

either of these groups. He and I were talking to the County police officer

assigned to his school this week and I asked if he could join the police if he

was deaf. The officer was fairly certain that it would not be possible because

you had to have walked the beat to understand and work with police officers.

When I asked about areas such as the Computer Crimes Division, he indicated that

there were many civilian jobs in that area that would allow similar involvement.

So, though he may not be a policeman, he will still be able to function in a

similar capacity, should he choose to do so. It may not be 100 percent, but it

will be at least 80. I will not " warn " my son. Sometimes, if you're oblivious

to an obstacle, you just go right over it or around it because you don't know

you're not supposed to

[Guest guest]

I think that they already know full well about discrimination and to tell them

at this tender age that they will have such a hard time succeeding is

counterproductive. We need to encourage them and tell them that if they

persevere, anything is doable. For example, our kids cannot enter the military

and in many places, the police force, because they can't hear. My question is

why not. If they really want to, then let them work in noncombat related

military areas or in other areas. My son expressed interest in these about a

month ago. He is actually ineligible because of having open heart surgery and

several stomach surgeries when he was younger. However, if deafness were the

disability, I'd be supporting him in legislation/litigation to allow him to join

either of these groups. He and I were talking to the County police officer

assigned to his school this week and I asked if he could join the police if he

was deaf. The officer was fairly certain that it would not be possible because

you had to have walked the beat to understand and work with police officers.

When I asked about areas such as the Computer Crimes Division, he indicated that

there were many civilian jobs in that area that would allow similar involvement.

So, though he may not be a policeman, he will still be able to function in a

similar capacity, should he choose to do so. It may not be 100 percent, but it

will be at least 80. I will not " warn " my son. Sometimes, if you're oblivious

to an obstacle, you just go right over it or around it because you don't know

you're not supposed to

[Guest guest]

>

> I think that they already know full well about discrimination and

to tell them at this tender age that they will have such a hard time

succeeding is counterproductive.

I have worked for DoD for 20 years in an engineering (development)

field. During the summer, college students with disabilities can

sign up for a program in which the federal govt will give them

summer jobs. Around April/May the " managers " will send around an

email asking who would like to hire one of these kids (no cost to

the programs you're working on; its all overhead). When I've tried

to get my managers to bring one on, I used to get " how would we talk

to them, how would we get them to do anything, how would we write

things down for them if they are blind? " and other myriad of

excuses. 2 summers ago we were in receipt of a highly qualified

deaf student who had gone to Rochester and worked for the Coast

Guard in the summer. The group I worked on would have brought him

on but we were over our hiring for that year and a couple years

hence - BUT he would have been brought on and put on the program I

worked on - not a bad thing, but he is an engineer and I am not. I

commented that he was totally capable of communicating on his own.

In fact, my command's sign language interpreter offered sign

language classes during lunch so the people who did have deaf

individuals in their dept could learn to sign with them.

Deaf postal employees in the DC area are filing a class action law

suit against the US post office. When I talked to my brother about

it, who is associated with the US postmasters, I was kind of

surprised about what he didn't know about deaf people and he has one

in his own family!

I think not only do we need to educate our kids but also EVERYONE we

know even if its our brother!

The school Hayley goes to offers transition planning and it starts

now, in 7th grade. They dont' wait until the kids are juniors or

seniors; they start testing their strengths now. Previously deaf

kids went on to become printers. WPSD works with the kids who will

go on to RIT or Gallaudet but they also work with the kids who go to

trade school. As early as now they are taking silkscreening

(something going away with computers), auto repair, woodworking.

Some of the woodwork I've seen at WPSD is what you would see in

antique stores and this stuff has stayed at the school since the

1920s.

I am sorry to go on, but this topic really hit home with me.

[Guest guest]

>

> I think that they already know full well about discrimination and

to tell them at this tender age that they will have such a hard time

succeeding is counterproductive.

I have worked for DoD for 20 years in an engineering (development)

field. During the summer, college students with disabilities can

sign up for a program in which the federal govt will give them

summer jobs. Around April/May the " managers " will send around an

email asking who would like to hire one of these kids (no cost to

the programs you're working on; its all overhead). When I've tried

to get my managers to bring one on, I used to get " how would we talk

to them, how would we get them to do anything, how would we write

things down for them if they are blind? " and other myriad of

excuses. 2 summers ago we were in receipt of a highly qualified

deaf student who had gone to Rochester and worked for the Coast

Guard in the summer. The group I worked on would have brought him

on but we were over our hiring for that year and a couple years

hence - BUT he would have been brought on and put on the program I

worked on - not a bad thing, but he is an engineer and I am not. I

commented that he was totally capable of communicating on his own.

In fact, my command's sign language interpreter offered sign

language classes during lunch so the people who did have deaf

individuals in their dept could learn to sign with them.

Deaf postal employees in the DC area are filing a class action law

suit against the US post office. When I talked to my brother about

it, who is associated with the US postmasters, I was kind of

surprised about what he didn't know about deaf people and he has one

in his own family!

I think not only do we need to educate our kids but also EVERYONE we

know even if its our brother!

The school Hayley goes to offers transition planning and it starts

now, in 7th grade. They dont' wait until the kids are juniors or

seniors; they start testing their strengths now. Previously deaf

kids went on to become printers. WPSD works with the kids who will

go on to RIT or Gallaudet but they also work with the kids who go to

trade school. As early as now they are taking silkscreening

(something going away with computers), auto repair, woodworking.

Some of the woodwork I've seen at WPSD is what you would see in

antique stores and this stuff has stayed at the school since the

1920s.

I am sorry to go on, but this topic really hit home with me.

[Guest guest]

>

> I think that they already know full well about discrimination and

to tell them at this tender age that they will have such a hard time

succeeding is counterproductive.

I have worked for DoD for 20 years in an engineering (development)

field. During the summer, college students with disabilities can

sign up for a program in which the federal govt will give them

summer jobs. Around April/May the " managers " will send around an

email asking who would like to hire one of these kids (no cost to

the programs you're working on; its all overhead). When I've tried

to get my managers to bring one on, I used to get " how would we talk

to them, how would we get them to do anything, how would we write

things down for them if they are blind? " and other myriad of

excuses. 2 summers ago we were in receipt of a highly qualified

deaf student who had gone to Rochester and worked for the Coast

Guard in the summer. The group I worked on would have brought him

on but we were over our hiring for that year and a couple years

hence - BUT he would have been brought on and put on the program I

worked on - not a bad thing, but he is an engineer and I am not. I

commented that he was totally capable of communicating on his own.

In fact, my command's sign language interpreter offered sign

language classes during lunch so the people who did have deaf

individuals in their dept could learn to sign with them.

Deaf postal employees in the DC area are filing a class action law

suit against the US post office. When I talked to my brother about

it, who is associated with the US postmasters, I was kind of

surprised about what he didn't know about deaf people and he has one

in his own family!

I think not only do we need to educate our kids but also EVERYONE we

know even if its our brother!

The school Hayley goes to offers transition planning and it starts

now, in 7th grade. They dont' wait until the kids are juniors or

seniors; they start testing their strengths now. Previously deaf

kids went on to become printers. WPSD works with the kids who will

go on to RIT or Gallaudet but they also work with the kids who go to

trade school. As early as now they are taking silkscreening

(something going away with computers), auto repair, woodworking.

Some of the woodwork I've seen at WPSD is what you would see in

antique stores and this stuff has stayed at the school since the

1920s.

I am sorry to go on, but this topic really hit home with me.

[Guest guest]

Jill, my brother, who should know better, was amazed that Hayley and

her friends were going to a Superbowl party at WPSD which is in

pittsburgh, saying he didn't think deaf kids had any awareness of

this!

> My own sister referred to Ian as " your retarded son " when she

called asking

> for help in navigating the testing and evaluation process with the

state and

> school, while diagnosing her son's supposed ADD. She didn't like

that she had

[Guest guest]

Jill, my brother, who should know better, was amazed that Hayley and

her friends were going to a Superbowl party at WPSD which is in

pittsburgh, saying he didn't think deaf kids had any awareness of

this!

> My own sister referred to Ian as " your retarded son " when she

called asking

> for help in navigating the testing and evaluation process with the

state and

> school, while diagnosing her son's supposed ADD. She didn't like

that she had

[Guest guest]

Jill, my brother, who should know better, was amazed that Hayley and

her friends were going to a Superbowl party at WPSD which is in

pittsburgh, saying he didn't think deaf kids had any awareness of

this!

> My own sister referred to Ian as " your retarded son " when she

called asking

> for help in navigating the testing and evaluation process with the

state and

> school, while diagnosing her son's supposed ADD. She didn't like

that she had

[Guest guest]

Late to the party, but have a small comment on this subject. I

thought I would wait and see how it went. I guess the one thing I

would say here is that I don't know if we should warn our kids about

how awful some things are in this world...even job discrimination.

The best thing I think we can do for our children is plan for more

than college...plan to help them after college. Chances are we are

going to need to help them for some time until they do get the job

they deserve.

The only reason I am saying it this way is this...my brother...who

is...(doing mental math) 29 (30 in May)...worked for a Deaf

Community Center in San Diego and was laid off due to budjet cuts.

He was out of work for over 2 years and just recently was hired in

what will most likely be the " forever " job. He has been promoted

several times in the less then 6 months since he has been hired.

They were great with him...they got him the new CA relay setup which

uses signing over a video/internet link. He called me the other day

on that and for anyone who has not used it yet...it is pretty cool.

Just a little background on my brother...graduated from PU with

bachelor's in (I think) Aviation Management...found he was not able

to find much with that degree...even after an internship with the

Port Authority of SD. He went back and got a MBA...then he got the

grant writing deal...

So long and the short of it...he did everything RIGHT. He was

patient. My parents were patient. They sent him money to help him

survive. (He had bought a condo before being laid off.) I think we

need to not put blinders on about the amount of support our kids

will need long term. And while I know none of us would withhold

that...if we don't plan for it we can't give it.

Moral of the story...plan for more than college.

Love,

[Guest guest]

Late to the party, but have a small comment on this subject. I

thought I would wait and see how it went. I guess the one thing I

would say here is that I don't know if we should warn our kids about

how awful some things are in this world...even job discrimination.

The best thing I think we can do for our children is plan for more

than college...plan to help them after college. Chances are we are

going to need to help them for some time until they do get the job

they deserve.

The only reason I am saying it this way is this...my brother...who

is...(doing mental math) 29 (30 in May)...worked for a Deaf

Community Center in San Diego and was laid off due to budjet cuts.

He was out of work for over 2 years and just recently was hired in

what will most likely be the " forever " job. He has been promoted

several times in the less then 6 months since he has been hired.

They were great with him...they got him the new CA relay setup which

uses signing over a video/internet link. He called me the other day

on that and for anyone who has not used it yet...it is pretty cool.

Just a little background on my brother...graduated from PU with

bachelor's in (I think) Aviation Management...found he was not able

to find much with that degree...even after an internship with the

Port Authority of SD. He went back and got a MBA...then he got the

grant writing deal...

So long and the short of it...he did everything RIGHT. He was

patient. My parents were patient. They sent him money to help him

survive. (He had bought a condo before being laid off.) I think we

need to not put blinders on about the amount of support our kids

will need long term. And while I know none of us would withhold

that...if we don't plan for it we can't give it.

Moral of the story...plan for more than college.

Love,

[Guest guest]

Late to the party, but have a small comment on this subject. I

thought I would wait and see how it went. I guess the one thing I

would say here is that I don't know if we should warn our kids about

how awful some things are in this world...even job discrimination.

The best thing I think we can do for our children is plan for more

than college...plan to help them after college. Chances are we are

going to need to help them for some time until they do get the job

they deserve.

The only reason I am saying it this way is this...my brother...who

is...(doing mental math) 29 (30 in May)...worked for a Deaf

Community Center in San Diego and was laid off due to budjet cuts.

He was out of work for over 2 years and just recently was hired in

what will most likely be the " forever " job. He has been promoted

several times in the less then 6 months since he has been hired.

They were great with him...they got him the new CA relay setup which

uses signing over a video/internet link. He called me the other day

on that and for anyone who has not used it yet...it is pretty cool.

Just a little background on my brother...graduated from PU with

bachelor's in (I think) Aviation Management...found he was not able

to find much with that degree...even after an internship with the

Port Authority of SD. He went back and got a MBA...then he got the

grant writing deal...

So long and the short of it...he did everything RIGHT. He was

patient. My parents were patient. They sent him money to help him

survive. (He had bought a condo before being laid off.) I think we

need to not put blinders on about the amount of support our kids

will need long term. And while I know none of us would withhold

that...if we don't plan for it we can't give it.

Moral of the story...plan for more than college.

Love,

[Guest guest]

I think I agree with this post. All of my 7 kids are adopted, and none of

them are caucasian. I think if I started with the two deaf daughters

getting them ready for job discrimination because of their deafness, I would

have to go right down the line and get my Asian son ready for job

discrimination because he is Asian. Then there are the Latinos who could

possibly be discriminated because they are hispanic. Then there are the

African American ones who will be discriminated because they are black.

Then, there's the Latinos who are gifted in music, so the jock world will,

and has, discrimated against them. And the black ones who are NOT jocks

just because they are black. It just doesn't end in our world, and in

reality, I think they all know this before we tell them. Tish

: Preparing Your Kids for Job Search Discrimination

> Late to the party, but have a small comment on this subject. I

> thought I would wait and see how it went. I guess the one thing I

> would say here is that I don't know if we should warn our kids about

> how awful some things are in this world...even job discrimination.

>

[Guest guest]

I think I agree with this post. All of my 7 kids are adopted, and none of

them are caucasian. I think if I started with the two deaf daughters

getting them ready for job discrimination because of their deafness, I would

have to go right down the line and get my Asian son ready for job

discrimination because he is Asian. Then there are the Latinos who could

possibly be discriminated because they are hispanic. Then there are the

African American ones who will be discriminated because they are black.

Then, there's the Latinos who are gifted in music, so the jock world will,

and has, discrimated against them. And the black ones who are NOT jocks

just because they are black. It just doesn't end in our world, and in

reality, I think they all know this before we tell them. Tish

: Preparing Your Kids for Job Search Discrimination

> Late to the party, but have a small comment on this subject. I

> thought I would wait and see how it went. I guess the one thing I

> would say here is that I don't know if we should warn our kids about

> how awful some things are in this world...even job discrimination.

>

[Guest guest]

I think I agree with this post. All of my 7 kids are adopted, and none of

them are caucasian. I think if I started with the two deaf daughters

getting them ready for job discrimination because of their deafness, I would

have to go right down the line and get my Asian son ready for job

discrimination because he is Asian. Then there are the Latinos who could

possibly be discriminated because they are hispanic. Then there are the

African American ones who will be discriminated because they are black.

Then, there's the Latinos who are gifted in music, so the jock world will,

and has, discrimated against them. And the black ones who are NOT jocks

just because they are black. It just doesn't end in our world, and in

reality, I think they all know this before we tell them. Tish

: Preparing Your Kids for Job Search Discrimination

> Late to the party, but have a small comment on this subject. I

> thought I would wait and see how it went. I guess the one thing I

> would say here is that I don't know if we should warn our kids about

> how awful some things are in this world...even job discrimination.

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, it'd be on now. ;-)

How can you be from the same family? They define dysfunctional.

My own sister referred to Ian as " your retarded son " when she called asking

for help in navigating the testing and evaluation process with the state and

school, while diagnosing her son's supposed ADD. She didn't like that she had

to agree to the same testing as every other kid ( " He's not the same as your

retarded son " were her exact words.)